American Naifs Bringing Ruin to Other Lands
According to news reports, the U.S. military is shipping "bunker-buster" bombs to the U.S. Air Force base at Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean. The Herald Scotland reports that experts say the bombs are being assembled for an attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities. The newspaper quotes Dan Piesch, director of the Centre for International Studies and Diplomacy at the University of London: "They are gearing up totally for the destruction of Iran."
The next step will be a staged "terrorist attack," a "false flag" operation as per Operation Northwoods, for which Iran will be blamed. As Iran and its leadership have already been demonized, the "false flag" attack will suffice to obtain U.S. and European public support for bombing Iran. The bombing will include more than the nuclear facilities and will continue until the Iranians agree to regime change and the installation of a puppet government. The corrupt American media will present the new puppet as "freedom and democracy."
If the past is a guide, Americans will fall for the deception. In the February issue of "American Behavioral Scientist," a scholarly journal, Professor Lance DeHaven-Smith writes that state crimes against democracy (SCAD) involve government officials, often in combination with private interests, that engage in covert activities in order to implement an agenda. Examples include McCarthyism or the fabrication of evidence of communist infiltration, the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution based on false claims of President Johnson and Pentagon chief McNamara that North Vietnam attacked a U.S. naval vessel, the burglary of the office of Daniel Ellsberg’s psychiatrist in order to discredit Ellsberg ("The Pentagon Papers") as "disturbed," and the falsified "intelligence" that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction in order to justify the U.S. invasion of Iraq.
There are many other examples. I have always regarded the 1995 bombing of the Murrah Federal Office Building in Oklahoma City as a SCAD. Allegedly, a disturbed Tim McVeigh used a fertilizer bomb in a truck parked outside the building. More likely, McVeigh was a patsy, whose fertilizer bomb was a cover for explosives planted inside the building.
A number of experts dismissed the possibility of McVeigh’s bomb producing such structural damage. For example, General Benton K. Partin, who was in charge of U.S. Air Force munitions design and testing, produced a thick report on the Murrah building bombing which concluded that the building blew up from the inside out. Gen. Partin concluded that, "the pattern of damage would have been technically impossible without supplementary demolition charges at some of the reinforced concrete bases inside the building, a standard demolition technique. For a simplistic blast truck bomb, of the size and composition reported, to be able to reach out on the order of 60 feet and collapse a reinforced column base the size of column A7 is beyond credulity."
Gen. Partin dismissed the official report as "a massive cover-up of immense proportions."
Of course, the general’s unquestionable expertise had no bearing on the outcome. One reason is that his and other expert voices were drowned out by media pumping the official story. Another reason is that public beliefs in a democracy run counter to suspicion of government as a terrorist agent. Professor Laurie Manwell of the University of Guelph says that "false flag" operations have the advantage over truth: "research shows that people are far less willing to examine information that disputes, rather than confirms, their beliefs." Professor Steven Hoffman agrees: "Our data shows substantial support for a cognitive theory known as 'motivated reasoning,' which suggests that rather than search rationally for information that either confirms or disconfirms a particular belief, people actually seek out information that confirms what they already believe. In fact, for the most part people completely ignore contrary information." Even when hard evidence turns up, it can be discredited as a "conspiracy theory."
All that is necessary for success of "false flag" or "black ops" events is for the government to have its story ready and to have a reliable and compliant media. Once an official story is in place, thought and investigation are precluded. Any formal inquiry that is convened serves to buttress the already provided explanation.
An explanation ready-at-hand is almost a give-away that an incident is a "black ops" event. Notice how quickly the U.S. government, allegedly so totally deceived by al-Qaida, provided the explanation for 9/11. When President Kennedy was assassinated, the government produced the culprit immediately. The alleged culprit was conveniently shot inside a jail by a civilian before he could be questioned. But the official story was ready, and it held.
Professors Manwell and Hoffman’s research resonates with me. I remember reading in my graduate studies that the Czarist secret police set off bombs in order to create excuses to arrest their targets. My inclination was to dismiss the accounts as anti-Czarist propaganda by pro-communist historians. It was only later when Robert Conquest confirmed to me that this was indeed the practice of the Czarist secret police that the scales fell from my eyes.
Former CIA official Philip Giraldi in his article, "The Rogue Nation," makes it clear that the U.S. government has a hegemonic agenda that it is pursuing without congressional or public awareness. The agenda unfolds piecemeal as a response to "terrorism," and the big picture is not understood by the public or by most in Congress. Giraldi protests that the agenda is illegal under both U.S. and international law, but that the illegality of the agenda does not serve as a barrier. Only a naif could believe that such a government would not employ "false flag" operations that advance the agenda.
The U.S. population, it seems, is comprised of naifs whose lack of comprehension is bringing ruin to other lands.
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Its interesting that security has been lowered or taken off in certain NYC subway lines this past month. I actually wondered if an "attack" would come there and be blamed on Iranian 'terrorists" as an excuse to invade Iran. How long Lord?
Coulda fooled me. Which lines?
As long as there are parents who allow their young sons to become cannon fodder in the pursuit of empire, this madness will continue. Patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels which makes me very suspicious of all these politicians wearing American flags on their lapels and lying us into one war after another. As a family that has ancestors that have fought in every war since the French and Indian war including North and South in the War between the States, my wife and I would sooner our son choose any other profession other than professional military.
Maybe others will start to feel the same way and the volunteer supply of manpower will dry up. Then again, the ancient Romans on the other hand recruited foreigners into their army after exhausting the supply of their own citizens and then granted the surviving veterans Roman citizenship. There are millions south of the USA border who would gladly sign up if the US government instituted a similar policy.............
Depressing.......
While at it why not bring in Roswell and the flying saucers! Or how about the one about the Queen who is really a martian. Then there is also the vast Zionist conspiracy. Perhaps a trip to a sanitarium would be in order.
Israel is notorious for false flag operations and other terrorist activities to push the agenda in their direction. Sometimes they get caught with their fingers in the cookie jar like in the Lavon Affair, The USS Liberty, the Mossad agents in New Jersy on 9/11, assorted car bombings in Lebanon and Syria, and the recent assinations in Dubai and Hungry, as a few examples.
"While at it why not bring in Roswell and the flying saucers! Or how about the one about the Queen who is really a martian. Then there is also the vast Zionist conspiracy. Perhaps a trip to a sanitarium would be in order"
Jack,
This is a hilarious post. There was a time I could not find any humor in the tin-foil hat crowd but working with the mentally disabled is alot like following neo-con logic. Chilton Williamson touched upon this theme in a recent piece about liberalism and how it breeds its own demise. Once you assume that folks will believe anything,as the neo-cons assume,then you must deal with the mob that believes everything. I once knew a man who thought his sister had put wires in his head so she could listen to his thoughts, and another man who remembered while crossing a busy street that he needed forgivness for his sins so proceded to kneel down amidst zooming traffic to ask for it, and still couldn't understand later why he had been arrested. I heard a neo-con say the other day that the Iraq invasion had been a huge success and the recent elections there proved it. He failed to mention there were no fewer than fifty car bombs exploded in Bahgdad alone during these free elections. Sometimes mental illness is a matter of degree.
jack and robertII, I think PCR referred to people like yourselves in this post.
Did you even read what he wrote?
To go from PCR's assertions to the ones made your posts shows that it is you two that must be suffering from mental illness, assuming you have minds in the first place.
Chris,
Yes, I read it but have no way of evaluating its truth or falsity. My instinct is that PCR is a thoughtful man and when powerful forces converge on a common objective who are willing and ready to use any and every means to accomplish their end; then I am not surprised that lieing,cheating,stealing and killing might be used or considered. Whether they were used in the instances sighted above by PCR I have no way of knowing.
Violence and deception in the interests of government and unacknowledged interests. It all begins with Lincoln. Until Americans understand that, no progress toward reform.
Dr. Wilson, it is always fun to watch the reaction of people when I begin my list of worst presidents with old dishonest Abe. Sadly your point is all too true and I fear the possibility of reform is very low at this point and getting lower each year as the "diversity" of our population increases.
Dr, Wilson,
And his party!! Until Beezelbub is recognized under his current disguise as Republican Party Man, we will remain chained to this devil of duopoly and deserve it. This must sound like so much monotonous rant, but it can not be said enough in these times -- The Republican Party must be ignored or allowed to pass in peace, there is more important work that awaits the serious young man.
Khruchev admitted that Dag Hammerskold was assassinated by the KGB. Oswald worked for the Hands Off Cuba Committee, which was a Cuban intelligence front group operating out of their UN mission in New York City. Two million people were murdered because of our military failure in South Vietnam and Cambodia. A million or two more were murdered and starved to death in Ethopia because of Jimmy Carter. Castro immediately executed 20,000 people in Cuba, with the assistance of the Russian GRU. You seem to believe every problem is due to the US Empire. You are afflicted with this Fixed Idea. The author of this article deranged. I am 100% for the American Empire which is the greatest thing that happened to mankind after the advent and resurrection of Jesus the Christ.
Every problem is not due to the American Empire, there is lots of evil in the world caused by many other people. What I do know is that things in America would be a lot better if we minded our own business and looked after our own interests. Sorry but the millions killed in East Asia were not worth the sacrifice of more than 50,000 Americans and the near ruination of our economy.
@ #13 Alexander, Caesar, Napoleon and Hitler also thought they also were the greatest 'thing' to happen to mankind. Do you think we learned anything from Vietnam and 2 million dead? What goal was accomplished by approximately 200,000 USA casualties (58,000 killed) in the short or long term? No one asks that question but a number of my friends are ten feet under and I don't have any answer except corporate greed and militarism. Communist Vietnam was granted permanent normal trade relations with the USA in 2006...........follow the money...........the flag is a diversion.
@15 Patrick, well said! Dr. Roberts is correct, it's time Americans shed the scales that have covered their eyes for so long.
Yes, America is a wonderful place to live, but America is not the US Government. Pay attention to what Dr. Wilson has said "It all begins with Lincoln."
Keep up the good work Dr. Roberts!
Matt,
". Oswald worked for the Hands Off Cuba Committee, which was a Cuban intelligence front group operating out of their UN mission in New York City.
Oswald killed the first Catholic President.
Two million people were murdered because of our military failure in South Vietnam and Cambodia.
There was no military failures in Vietnam there was political failure everywhere.Most of the governing class in South Vietnam was Roman Catholic. Diem was executed with American intelligence approval.
A million or two more were murdered and starved to death in Ethopia because of Jimmy Carter. Again, a large portion of the Ethiopians were Catholic and Carter hated Catholics and never wearied of humiliating and demeaning them in public whenever possible and still does to this day.
"Castro immediately executed 20,000 people in Cuba, with the assistance of the Russian GRU."
The communist hated the Catholic Church and did everything within their power to destroy it in Cuba.
"You seem to believe every problem is due to the US Empire."
With generalizations like yours and PCR, one could conclude the Empire hates the Church, which may be true but does not explain everything small minds might wish it to explain. This was my point about conspiracy theorists. They attempt to explain much more than the few facts they often sight, are actually capable of explaining.
It's important to point out that the media is so homogenized that the structure is set up to march to the drumbeat of an exogenous agenda and is a moral hazard for democracy.
It's important to point out how not to trust blindly our own powers that be, since other, slimier powers may be lurking behind them.
However, this article flies past silly and lands somewhere in ridiculous. Is this the same PCR who admonished gun nuts for flying around in helicopters shooting animals for the backlash it might create? The details of this article are impossible for any relatively normal person to accept prima facie -- there is little to no evidence and the logic in some of the given examples doesn't even hold up. These types of rants tend to keep Republicans in power.
I like the intended spirit here, but this is a nasty area to write about. I think more care should be in order.
Or maybe PCR is running a false flag operation of his own...
"A million or two more were murdered and starved to death in Ethopia because of Jimmy Carter. Again, a large portion of the Ethiopians were Catholic and Carter hated Catholics and never wearied of humiliating and demeaning them in public whenever possible and still does to this day."
Robert II, I was unaware of this. Could you perhaps fill us in a little more? Possibly give suggestons for further reading?
#17. Minor point: I think Ethiopians are Christian Orthodox. I don't know how Carter feels about them but it is certain that one of the reasons for the failure to act had to do with being blind to leftist machinations. Since PCR is so good about uncovering conspiracies I wonder why he cannot see the one staring him in the face. Obam , the fed, treasury, dem party, Soros are working on a Watergate of a nth magnitude. Not only do they need to be impeached so that the Republic can surivive most of them need to be endowed with serious jail time. I wonder why in his supposed brilliance PCR does not write about that!
"Minor point: I think Ethiopians are Christian Orthodox."
Jack,
This is a minor point for me but maybe not for them. Thanks for the correction. I am not a big supporter of the duopoly. My impression
of President Carter was that of a naive but cunning man. Just a little better perhaps than George W. Bush, but only by a whisker. Leave me out of any honest criticism of the current debate. I wouldn't recognize such a thing if it sat down beside me and would
even prefer my daily chores of feeding dogs, changing cat litter, writing my children or arguing with my wife. If Huey Long from Louisiana, George Wallace from Alabama or Pat Buchanan from Virginia were to visit me, I might suggest we build three tents but other than that, I wouldn't warm the car to attend a Tea Party ---even if they were serving whiskey out back!!
@13 Matt, thanks be to God for providing salvation but you need a head examination.
Who killed mot of the 3 to 4 million Vietnamese during the Vietnam war?
Since WWII, the US has killed more people outside its borders than any other state.
The American Empire the 'greatest' thing since the resurrection of Jesus Christ?
I claim to be a Christian so I will withhold comment on your mental condition.
@17 robert II
>With generalizations like yours and PCR, one could conclude the
>Empire hates the Church, which may be true but does not explain
>everything small minds might wish it to explain.
Robert, this article by PCR was lucid and to the point.
PLEASE explain in detail what is wrong with what PCR wrote.
WHAT is UNREASONABLE about what PCR wrote?
J. Rota,
When Archbishop Bernadine as President of the NCCB first criticized the new democrats abortion initiatives, Carter's domestic policy advisor , Stuart Eizenstat, responded by saying, "He did not know who Bernadine was but was sure he was not speaking for any hierarchy, no one was coming to his support and the fellow was about to find himself out on a limb."
When Carter thought he might have a Catholic problem for his introduction of abortion to the democratic party plank he sighted his staffer Joseph Duffey as proof he was inclusive. Duffey was an ordained congregationalist minister with an Irish name and a long history of pro-abortion wrok.
Carters advisor on Catholic affairs told the Washington post in December of 1976 that the Church was a "farce" that "did a better job of screwing people up than any other institution he knew."
Of course this kind of stuff didn't bother Catholics much (we were taught patients toward stupid insults from the beginning) so the majority of Catholics voted Democratic anyway and helped elect him.
Recently in an interview with Charlie Rose, Old Jimmy was still at it stating that the Chinese People's Bishops had plenty of freedom and it was the Catholic Bishops in China causing all the problems. The list is long for old "Peanut Jimmy" towards Catholics so I shed no tears for him when he finally got his tail feathers in the fan for his best selling "Apartheid in Jerusalem" comments. The man is very clever and cunning. I would have thought he might have gone further in American politics than he did. Of course it always takes one to know one, so he was finally defeated by Reagan when the Republicans began their lieing about "pro-life" and enough Catholic democrats were stupid enough to believe them. You really could write a funny story about principles and deception in modern politics.
McCarthyism had a wonderful agenda. Too bad the progressives outlived it.
General Partin's conclusion about OKC is flawed. Does he think the bombings of the Beirut barracks, Kobar Towers, the USS Cole and the US embassies in Africa were "inside demolition jobs" as well?
Maybe Clinton ordered the Navy to blow up its own ship? Right! After all, how could a mere rowboat blow a hole in the side of a destroyer big enough to drive a 18-wheeler through.
PCR relies too much on the "scholarship" of the left. He needs to stay away from the rumor mill and Marxist propaganda mongering.
#23 Chris asked "PLEASE explain in detail what is wrong with what PCR wrote"
The following paragraph is prophetic and is based upon bunker buster bombs being forward deployed to Diego Garcia.
"The next step will be a staged “terrorist attack,” a “false flag” operation as per Operation Northwoods, for which Iran will be blamed. As Iran and its leadership have already been demonized, the “false flag” attack will suffice to obtain U.S. and European public support for bombing Iran. The bombing will include more than the nuclear facilities and will continue until the Iranians agree to regime change and the installation of a puppet government. The corrupt American media will present the new puppet as “freedom and democracy.”
Maybe our intelligence folks moved them down there to make Iran think we are preparing to use them. Maybe they are headed for Afghanistan where they were first used. Maybe we will transfer them from Diego Garcia to Israel so they can use them. There are a number of reasons why they may have been moved to Diego Garcia other than preparation for a false flag initiative. Yet PCR seems convinced that his prophecy is the only possibility.
The following " I have always regarded the 1995 bombing of the Murrah Federal Office Building in Oklahoma City as a SCAD. Allegedly, a disturbed Tim McVeigh used a fertilizer bomb in a truck parked outside the building. More likely, McVeigh was a patsy, whose fertilizer bomb was a cover for explosives planted inside the building."
Whatever Tim McVeigh was, he was not just a patsy. His "little fertilizer bomb" carried in the back of a little volkswagon? was the size of a 500 gallon amonia tank carried in the back of a Ryder Moving truck -- for God's sake!!! Sure, we may never know the complete story in the Oklahoma City bombing but a maniac that parks a truck bomb in a downtown area and detonates it, is still a maniac , whether he was a useful maniac or not.
Finally I tend to agree with Tom Fleming when he said he knew only a little less about these matters than the intelligence officers in Pakistan who allowed a Jordanian triple agent to blow them all up. Simply because a government shows signs of develish behavior doesn't provide it with angelic power which some of these conspiracy theories would require. I don't believe in leaving ones mind wide open at all times. It allows evil spirits to enter that are unhealthy for one's soul. Some of these can only be driven out by prayer and fasting, so why allow them back in under this misplaced obsession with darkness, paranoia and evil? Lent is a preparation for the final victory not the final defeat. PCR needs to turn his attention to more promising and redeeming features of life such as the scented rose just beyond the river. Or as Jackson put it after being shot to hell by his own sentry, "Let us cross the river and enjoy the shade of the trees" Perhaps he should have stated the obvious to his wife: "It is all their fault."???
Fertilizer bombs can be terrible explosives which do a lot of damage. It doesn't take much to put them together, just nitrate fertilizer, fuel oil, and dynamite caps. I think Dr. Roberts goes off the deep end on the Murrah Building. The damage done there could be done by such a bomb. The first I heard of this explosive was the destruction fo the Army Lab at the U. W. Madison campus in the 1960's, It destroyed a large building. It was done late at night and only one poor researcher was killed. McVieh and his accomplises had much more military experiece than the bombers in Madison did and built a bigger bomb. I believe Dr. Roberts is much more right on the false flag operation to get us into an Iran war. The Mossad is capable of doing this and it wants us in this war. I would hope our own Intelligence agencies would thwart this but have no great faith that they will.
John Marino @27 is right. Fertilizer bombs act as a non-idealized explosive. They produce a long, drawn-out pressure wave of low peak-pressure, but very high total impulse. This does a great job of producing tremendous flexure in walls and ultimately causing them to fail. Ditto load bearing columns.
They actually work better in this regard than military-grade high explosive.
The author of the linked article at the Herald Scotland doesn't understand weaponeering basics and ends up proving nothing except his ignorance.
Jack Bailey writes: "While at it why not bring in Roswell and the flying saucers! Or how about the one about the Queen who is really a martian. Then there is also the vast Zionist conspiracy. Perhaps a trip to a sanitarium would be in order."
This is a classic case of an American who has lost his natural inquisitiveness and curiosity in these matters because of a conditioning done by the very people who are causing this chaos in the world. One mention of the word 'conspiracy' or similar and his wall goes up, like the Pavlovian dogs. Congratulations, elitist class. You have millions like this man who will wake up too late.
Concerning the Murrah Building, has anyone read Jayna Davis' The Third Terrorist. In it she argues there was a Middle East connection. I read the book when it first came out and it seemed convincing; however, I am in no position to judge if it is accurate. It never grew any legs.
My honest opinion is this: I don't understand why PCR is on this website.
Dr. Paul Craig Roberts is fine scholar and he has been right about our wars and policy in the Middle East since the beginning. He also agrees with the basic policy of this publication on trade and industrial policy. I don't with agree all of if but he does a good job on most of it.
#32 My honest opinion is this: I don’t understand why PCR is on this website"
Well, hells bells!!! This was the same tactic used for removing Joe Sobran, Pat Buchanan, Sam Francis and several other thoughtful conservative writers from polite society. If this is going to be the reaction to a critique or dissent of a columnist's opinion, I want to withdraw all of mine concerning this post. PCR, compared to other columnist available todays, is one of the more courageous. In these days of conservative milk-sops,I prefer the errors of the rash yet thoughtful conservative like PCR to that of the cool, stupid and obnoxious leaders such as Rush, Hannity, Kristol and Frumm.
I have no idea what the truth is about Murrah or 9/11 (or the Kennedy killing, for that matter). What I do know is that politicians and bureaucrats lie and their stories can't be trusted.
#34 "I prefer the errors of the rash yet thoughtful conservative like PCR to that of the cool, stupid and obnoxious leaders..."
How is it possible to be rash yet thoughtful?
It is rash to insist that the OKC bombing was an inside job that involved internal demolition... when there is ample historical evidence to the contrary, which I mentioned in #25.
The general's report notwithstanding, such a feat of destruction has been accomplished over and over and over again with similar results, under other circumstances much less favorable to bombers. The USS Cole, for instance.
The real conspiracy being covered up is that jihadists were involved in the bombing.
"The real conspiracy being covered up is that jihadists were involved in the bombing."
It is rash to insist that the OKC bombing was an inside job that involved internal demolition."
From the evidence available to most of us( and I am particularly interested in the Oklahoma Bombing because my churches, my people and my state were the ones attacked) both statements are rash --which is an excess of courage. It is beyond knowing what to fear and what not to fear, it invents things to fear that may not exist. The man who sees a Jihadist behind every occurence is as annoying as the man who sees a Jew behind every financial collapse and every war in the Middle East. If the ordinary American would simply learn and then love his own origens, extended family,customs and traditions and be willing to intelligently defend them against ideologues of every persuasion without tearful apologies, we would all be healthier and happier. I propose one buy a subscription to Chronicles and one for his closest friend, discuss some of it once or twice a month over coffee and let the rest of ones "higher learning"go to hell for a while.
Dear Chris @ 22: When one tallies up the dead after World War II, China comes first with 70 - 90 million people dead, then comes China with the assistance of the Soviet Union in IndoChina from the French Colonial War through the American Vietnam War with the genocide by the China-sponsored & protected scum government of Pol Pot, then the Genocide in Ethopia (which is Coptic Christian - hiers to the heretic Arius) then the Muslims Slavers who have been ethnical cleansing Sudan for the last 20 years. Opps! I forgot Zimbabwe under Muggabe. I think he's up to 800,000 people now. The USA in Vietnam was trying to defend the genocidal Communists coming in and doing what they always do, and which they did do in Southeast Asia since 1975. This like blaming all casualties in Iraq on the US when in fact its mostly the left over Nazi Baathist and Iranian and Syrian and Saudi support insurgents.
I happend to agree with robert II about the war against the Catholic Church by the American Establishment. I do not think that Craig Roberts should be chased off of the internet or out of Chronicles, but I do get to disagree with him and prosecutorial attitude about every foreign policy endeavor by America.
Matt writes :"in Ethopia (which is Coptic Christian – hiers to the heretic Arius)
Matt,
The other view is that the Copts are heirs of St. Mark just as the Chaldean Christians are heirs of Doubting Thomas: It is "post christian culture" and its Mother, modernism, that is the true heir of Arius and other heretics. My point in even mentioning the ethiopian christians and their slaughter is to demonstrate the habit of American duplicity in arming and disarming Jihadists.
The Copts are accused of monophysitism, not Arianism. They are the descendants of St. Athanasius, the scourge of Arius, and of St. Cyril. The Copts are no more the heirs of Arius than British Christians are the heirs of Pelagius. And the Copts are having a hard time of it lately in Egypt, so they merit our prayers rather than our aspersions.
Concerning the Coptic Church: it is not in communion with the Eastern Orthodox Churches (e.g., Greek, Russian, Antiochian,. . .) due to a disagreement on the nature of Christ. The split occurred in 451 A.D. at the Council of Chalcedon. The Copts are called monophysites or non-Chalcedonian Christians(as are the Syrian, Indian, Ethiopian, and Armenian Christians)because they believe that Christ has only one nature, while the Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholics, and Protestants believe that Christ has two natures: human and devine. I have a good Orthodox friend who, if I understand him correctly, thinks the Copts have a better argument.
You can read more about the Coptic Church beliefs on the nature of Christ here:
http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/theology/nature_of_christ.pdf
Please forgive my faulty spelling. (I think it is partly due to a lack of typing skills.) Regular readers can recognize when I compose on the fly and don't use a spell checker. It was Andrew Vabre "Andy" Devine who had a devine nature, not Christ.
# 13, 17 and 24 and any others who care to read:
Politics is not governing, only philosophies that have been
"warmed over", and too many cooks in the kitchen ruin dinner.
Forget the party of her husband but remember the words of his
widow in her grief when urged to change her clothes, "I want
them to see what they did to him."
First and Last in all things, it is written that God Almighty shows
no partiality when it comes to who is best or where one will be
seated.
Thank you Mr. P. C. Roberts for your essay.
One little note on the Ethiopian Christians: although they are in communion with the Eastern churches listed by Mr van Sant, they are, like those other churches, independent, and terefore are not Coptic, though perhaps there are branches of the Coptic church in Ethiopia.
Anyone care to discuss the Project for a New American Century? I dont know a lot about it but why not throw it into the discussion? Was the second Iraq war planned during the 90's? How much of that is true? How can we ever know?
#14, 15, 22,
It never ceases to amaze and disgust me how people, including self-proclaimed conservatives, continue to spout the left garbage that America was responsible for "two million deaths" in S.E. Asia. Get this through your heads: these deaths were the result of a sick and evil ideology known as communism.
Was Ho Chi Minh, after killing and imprisoning hundreds of thousands of his own countrymen, the North Vietnamese - BEFORE American involvement - going to play nice with his hated Southern Vietnamese enemies if he had simply been allowed to cross the DMZ unopposed? The "two million dead" would have happened with or without American involvement; but at least we made sure that a goodly number of the dead were the right people - instead of it being a one-sided country-wide slaughter as in Hue City. And how do all you seers know it wouldn't have been a far greater figure, as in the Soviet Union, had not America stepped in and weakened the Vietnamese reds to the point that they had to begin making concessions to market forces, i.e. man's natural inclinations, with the resultant upsurge in the standard of living of that long-suffering people? So maybe the sacrifice of my 58,000 brothers, that you people are so all-fired broken up about, counted for a little more than you think. You think?
I was told that the Ethopian Christians were hiers to Arius by an Orthodox Christian Nun. I guess we are mistaken. Please note that the 6,000 people that were murdered in Hue by the communists in the Tet Offensive of 1968 were christian and that, despite complaints by the cardinal of New York City, the New York Times refuses to disclose that to the American Public. I also understand that the vast majority of Vietnamese Boat people were christians as well. I my last comment, I forgot the Korean War, whereby current Chinese Historian claim was launch at the behest of Mao to bleed America like the Germans tried to bleed the French at Verdun.
I think Mr Jacobi is right.
Also, one clarification before confusion or disagreement arises, when I said that the Ethiopian church was in communion 'with the Eastern churches listed by Mr van Sant' I meant the the Syrian, Indian, Ethiopian, and Armenian churches, not the Greek, Russian or Antiochian.
PCR has great articles on economics, but when he gets into politics he simply wants to be on the left. That is to say he wants to be a malcontent. He sees nothing wrong with Obama, unless he can explain him as a stooge of corporate Amweica. This is a fundamentally flawed view and why this kind of article is worthless.