Can Uncle Sam Ever Let Go?
In 1877, Lord Salisbury, commenting on Great Britain's policy on the Eastern Question, noted that 'the commonest error in politics is sticking to the carcass of dead policies.'
Salisbury was bemoaning the fact that many influential members of the British ruling class could not recognize that history had moved on; they continued to cling to policies and institutions that were relics of another era.
"Relics of another era"—thus did Stephen Meyer, in Parameters in 2003, begin his essay "Carcass of Dead Policies: The Irrelevance of NATO."
NATO has been irrelevant for two decades, since its raison d'etre—to keep the Red Army from driving to the Rhine—disappeared. Yet Obama is headed to Brussels to celebrate France's return and the 60th birthday of the alliance. But why is NATO still soldiering on?
In 1989, the Wall fell. Germany was reunited. The Captive Nations cast off communism. The Red Army went home. The USSR broke apart into 15 nations. But, having triumphed in the Cold War, it seems the United States could not bear giving up its role as Defender of the West, could not accept that the curtain had fallen and the play was closing after a 40-year run.
So, what did we do? In a spirit of "triumphalism," NATO "nearly doubled its size and rolled itself right up to Russia's door," writes Richard Betts in The National Interest.
Breaking our word to Mikhail Gorbachev, we invited into NATO six former member states of the Warsaw Pact and three former republics of the Soviet Union. George W. Bush was disconsolate he could not bring in Georgia and Ukraine.
Why did we expand NATO to within a few miles of St. Petersburg when NATO is not a social club but a military alliance? At its heart is Article V, a declaration that an armed attack on any one member is an attack on all.
America is now honor-bound to go to war against a nuclear-armed Russia for Estonia, which was part of the Russian Empire under the czars.
After the Russia-Georgia clash last August, Bush declared, "It's important for the people of Lithuania to know that when the United States makes a commitment—we mean it."
But "mean" what? That a Russian move on Vilnius will be met by U.S. strikes on Mother Russia? Are we insane?
Let us thank Divine Providence Russia has not tested the pledge.
For can anyone believe that, to keep Moscow from re-establishing its hegemony over a tiny Baltic republic, we would sink Russian ships, blockade Russian ports, bomb Russian airfields, attack Russian troop concentrations? That would risk having some Russian general respond with atomic weapons on U.S. air, sea and ground forces.
Great powers do not go to war against other great powers unless vital interests are imperiled. Throughout the Cold War, that was true of both America and Russia.
Though he had an atomic monopoly, Harry Truman did not use force to break the Berlin blockade. Nor did Ike intervene to save the Hungarians, whose 1956 revolution Moscow drowned in blood.
John F. Kennedy did not use force to stop the building of the Berlin Wall. Lyndon Johnson fired not a shot to halt the crushing of Prague Spring by Soviet tanks. When Solidarity was snuffed out on Moscow's orders in 1981, Ronald Reagan would not even put the Polish regime in default.
In August 1991, George Bush I, in Kiev, poured ice water on Ukraine's dream of independence: "Americans will not support those who seek independence in order to replace a far-off tyranny with a local despotism. They will not aid those who promote a suicidal nationalism based upon ethnic hatred."
Many Americans were outraged. But outrage does not translate into an endorsement of Bush's 43's plan to bring Ukraine into NATO and risk war with Russia over the Crimea.
Bush 43 bellowed at Moscow last summer to keep hands off the Baltic states. But his father barely protested when Gorbachev sent special forces into all three in 1991.
Bush I's secretary of state, Jim Baker, said it was U.S. policy not to see Yugoslavia break up. Bush 43 was handing out NATO war guarantees to the breakaway republics.
"Washington ... succumbed to victory disease and kept kicking Russia while it was down," writes Betts. "Two decades of humiliation were a potent incentive for Russia to push back. Indeed this is why many realists opposed NATO expansion in the first place."
Few Americans under 30 recall the Cold War. Yet can anyone name a single tripwire for war put down in the time of Dean Acheson or John Foster Dulles that we have pulled up?
Dwight Eisenhower, writes Richard Reeves, in his first meeting with the new president-elect, told JFK, "'America is carrying far more than her share of the free world defense.' It was time for the other nations of NATO to take on more of the cost of their own defense."
Half a century later, we are still stuck "to the carcass of dead policies."
COPYRIGHT 2009 CREATORS SYNDICATE INC.
Entries(RSS)
Were it not for NATO, we'd be overrun with Serb ultranationalists. The horrors!
The inescapable conclusion: Bush 43 was an incompetent moron. Throw in a giant helping of pompous arrogance and you have one dangerous mixture. Sounds like something out of the pages of Mad Magazine. Can the damage he did ever be completely undone?
But why is NATO still soldiering on?
That's easy, Pat. Picture an insecure schoolyard bully who needs a posse surrounding him. Then a Christian kid who poses no threat to the gang gets shoved around, just so the bully can prove he's still got macho charisma. Meanwhile, a poor little rich kid is watching from a distance and yells to the mob, "That filthy Christian is an anti-semite, too! Kick his butt!"
Needing no further encouragement the bully proclaims that the no-threat got what he deserved, and the rich kid stole the lunch money. Meanwhile, on the other side of the playground, another gang was watching and taking notes, and planning a strategy of how to deal with the bully, and also how to deal with the poor little child of a corrupt merchant.
And as for Obama celebrating France's return to NATO -- or OTAN as they call it. It must be that the bully is sick and tired of either brown-bagging PB&J sandwiches, or the third rate chow line, and is eager to taste some first rate lunch.
Gervaise,
When did NATO ever spread the zionist empire? NATO in Yugoslavia is pro-nazi, pro Islamist.
Try again.
@5 slime
So report me to Marc Potok at the SPLC. They're already maintaining a large file on me. I don't fear your mossad chums.
NATO(Numbskulls Are Taking Over)is still around Pat because the "usual suspects" need them as a military tool to enforce the New World Order,as the UN has failed miserably so far to act like "bully enforcers".I remember a commercial years ago that said "its not nice to fool Mother Nature",well vary that a bit and now it would be-"IT'S NOT NICE TO PISS OFF MOTHER RUSSIA!"That is precisely what NATO's function is anymore,besides separating White Enclaves who refuse to "knuckle under" from their traditional territory(ie Serbia/Kosovo).Imagine if NATO stepped in to "enforce" the return of all the lands the jews have stolen from the palestinians,oy vey!What an outcry there would be.If its anyone else though,tough luck.
Red Skull,
That was a Chiffon commercial - that old butter or margarine substitute. I was born in '85 but I saw it in a classic commercials TV special. Funny stuff. Anyway, Russia has always been the one world power standing in America's way of imperial world dominance. Notice I didn't say the Soviet Union, but rather Russia, because that's who it really is. Russia was almost always unceasingly a prosperous and powerful empire - BEFORE the Communists took over. The neocons and the imperialists on the Council of Foreign Relations know this, so NATO must stay.
slim,
Don't understand your point towards Etienne, he didn't say anything antisemitic. Can you not join forces with us? You hate NATO, so do we. That leads me to a question for you - Why IS it that only when you smell antisemitism in the air over here do you join the discussion to set the record straight that the Jews have not done what they are supposedly being accused of doing? There are many article postings from other authors about more pleasant subjects, like great American statesmen of the 18th or 19th century, premodern American culture, early Western philosophy. Don't you appreciate such topics which bind us together as Americans and give us a common frame of reference from which to invoke our need to preserve Western civilization?
Maybe you DON'T have any love for such things??? Maybe Jews - and their interests insofar as they are opposed to and at odds with those of other Americans - are your only love??? You can be honest, it's OK
Etienne,
You know if you say the words "Marc Potok" three times someone will order you a cosmopolitan and comment on your shoes right?
McCallum
Brock,
Gervaise's comment in #3 makes no sense to me, even a day later. What I know for certain is that neither NATO nor any other 'international community' body currently supports anything other than human-rights removal ideology.
I don't buy into a belief that the ideology of the people = that of our leaders.
That was never NATO's purpose.Its real purpose was to garrison Europe.Anciently,Anglo-American policy is to keep Europe divided and weak.This,incidentally,is what all the anti-EU howling is really all about.
If the US is a Defender of the West,then Attila was a Defender of Rome,and Monica Lewinsky is a virgin.Only dupes are perplexed at Americano perfidy.As I explained,its our legacy from Albion.
Go Ronnie!(also see below)
This is because-despite all the rumble-bumble to the contrary-Americanos liked the old Sovirt Union.After all,they were our allies against Hitler.Cant beat that!The post-Soviet regime in Moscow is therefore an adversary.An enemy of a friend is an enemy.
There is more continuity in all of this than a mediocrity like Buchanan is capable of understanding.
He must have thought it was "happy hour;"nothin' like buying a round of refreshments for the boys and putting it all on (somebody elses?)tab.
Pat,if your still awake,the days of using outmoded Liberalism (America first!Come home America!) so as to appear "conservative" to ignorant desperadoes,while at the same time remaining just hither the limes of liberal tolerance in an effort to capture a journalistic niche and further your career while doing nothing to stem the liberal tide,are over.
Buchanan is to foreign policy,what Limbaugh is to "free-market economics."My compliments to the two of them,they've both done well for themselves.Now its time they kindly stepped out of the way and let others have a crack at things.
Read "desperados" above.
The point I was trying to make in comment #3 is that we had no apparent good reason for bombing Yugoslavia/Serbia. Rumors abound that Hillary Clinton was riding a camel when she heard about the Lewinsky Affair and phoned her husband to divert attention away from his domestic zipper troubles by attacking "Milosevic." A full-court press of smears and hate was mounted to sell this stupid scheme to the gullible voters. Both New Republic and National Review (Jonah Goldberg was one of the usual suspects)immediately ratcheted up charges of anti-semitism. Why? I have no idea, but that was the way it happened. Plus the boring G. Gordon Liddy got on the air and did the same thing -- harping on about murdering Serb rapists and thugs. And the born-again radio shows trotted out no end of ovine yentas to proclaim that "Serbia has always hated the Jews" and screened out any caller to the contrary -- such as asking for proof. Who cares about the truth when we're supposed to give carte blanche to the ruling class?
As for NATO -- congress needs to cut off it's funding in the next sit-down. Oh yes, now that Hillary is third in line for the throne, watch out for a couple of mysterious cases of "Arkancide."
Wolff,
My reasoning is sound. NATO is in full alignment/alliance with the US State Department--sponsor of axis allied fascist movements all over the world, including the ME, which is why it is so quiet about its role as chief sponsor of the Muslim nazis in that region, and so resentful of Jewish filth living on land that belongs to Jews.
It is a bastion of institutionalized racism and antisemitism, a bastion of values that are anathema to the average American.
How does NATO and its sponsors cover their tracks? by lying about their policy using the 'big lie'. This has been used against the victims of the holocaust (Christian and Jewish alike).
Gervais,
The US government started re-writing Serbian history (lowering Jasenovac deathcounts) long before Blewinsky (documented on tenc). Any writer that says we attacked slobo to distract from Monica is full of it. I believe I've read that even in the late 80s the Albanian civic league was making inroads into US policy. All should read that 'Blowback' book. We've been sponsoring groups like the Albanian civic league (a whitewashed Americanized version of the Skenderbeg) and similar groups (Balkan nazis, hamas, fatah, etc.) for many years.
As long as the government keeps saying that it just 'accidentally' spread sharia/death/misery, the masses will remain none the wiser. 99.9% of Americans cannot fathom that the spreading of sharia/mafia type governments is not really like spreading US style 'democracy'.
Fascist movements all over the world?
Can you name any?
Racism and antisemitism, are they not one in the same? Why the special notation for essentially the same item?
McCallum
McCallum,
Google "blowback" "christopher simpson" and you can read some excerpts on thirdworld traveler website.
""Their idea," he writes, "to which they were passionately and sometimes ruthlessly attached, was simply that the United States should, for their benefit, fight a war against the Russian people to achieve the final breakup of the traditional Russian state and the establishment of themselves as the regimes of the various 'liberated' territories." Kennan is referring here to the spokesmen of the so-called "Captive Nations" movement, particularly Ukrainian and Baltic nationalists.
"These recent refugees were by no means without political influence in Washington," Kennan adds. "Connected as they were with the compact voting blocs situated in the big cities, they were able to bring direct influence to bear on individual Congressional figures. They appealed successfully at times to religious feelings, and even more importantly [sic] to the prevailing anti-Communist hysteria." Among the countries the Captive Nations movement represented were several that the diplomat admits had been "invented in the Nazi propaganda ministry during the recent war."
Agitation by these émigrés became a part of dozens of CIA-sponsored exile operations in the United States during the early 1950s. Almost all these affairs were sponsored by the CIA covert operations directorate's International Organizations Division, which was then administering the NCFE, the CFF, and similar overlapping projects. This division organized and bankrolled the CFF with an initial grant of $180,000, according to former RFE/ RL chief Mickelson. The agency, working through the NCFE, then went on to pour at least $5 million into CFF propaganda work inside the United States over the next five years."
Our Ukranian/Baltic/Latvian pets were WWII nazis dressed up in 'liberationist' propaganda. This is manifested today as we fight for, and lie for, the Albanian American Civic League (modern incarnation of the Skenderbeg) as well as fatah (modern incarnation of the Handzar).
We lie for genociders and say that they are tormented by their WWII concentration camp victims, while simultaneously maintaining a charade that we (the CIA) are torturing these same genociders (which is a means of manipulating the government controled 'leftist' movement).
I'm not very certain as to what you are saying.
Can you give me specific movements, names, dates, histories etc which would give me reason to believe you?
McCallum
McCallum,
There are gigantic warehouses in Suitland, MD (national archives) full of paperwork that served as the citations for 'Blowback'. You can get a used copy on Amazon for 10-12 dollars. You could also email the author, as I have done.
Why would an author lie and say that they had gotten their information from therein, while actually fabricating it? And how would such an author get a job teaching at American University?
Frankly, it's not easy for me to simultaneously hold the book open, while typing passages. But it is all true, factual, and the websites I read are based on this real policy (Arabist leaders betraying the American people via their alliances with Islamists and nazis), not on the big-lie mythology they tell ('help us! we can't do anything! the 'lobby' has a mindmeld on us again!').
It probably wouldn't help much to point out that NAZI is short for Hitler's version of National Socialism and thus is a unique movement. Further, Fascism is Mussolini's version of power government and is not inherently good or evil, but rather depended on how it is (was) exercised. To apply these terms to peoples and movements we desperately want others to loathe is fundamentally dishonest and eliminates you from the argument. As for NATO, like the UN, the IMF, and the World Bank, they are all elements of AngloAmerican imperial domination. The fact that the Anglo part has become at the most smoke is irrelevant.
slim,
I have not called anyone into question. I'm simply asking for the structure of this world effort by fascism.
I'm also a bit confused by all this influence Arabs and Muslims seem to have on the American government.
I'm all ears on the matter and am willing to entertain your positions provided they make some sense.
McCallum
McCallum,
The Arab League was created by the British leaders. It was (and seemingly always has been) a league of Muslim amoral thugs that peddle Jewhate to their people as a means of diverting attention from the fact that it is the Arab League (and its imperialist sponsors) that is making everyone miserable.
Why? There more profits to be made from societies that lack human rights, where slavery is prevalent. The richest people in the world like exploiting slavery. As recently as WWII, the richest people in the world exploited the Jewish slaves of Europe. This is how fascist empires operate (I use the term 'fascism' to describe empires that would like to enslave/remove rights if given sufficient chance).
In the end, fascism always defeats anti-fascism. The former is brutal, militaristically aggressive, full of big lies, controller of the media. The latter just want to be left alone. Fascist leaders will always band together to crush peasant rebellions. This is how empires operate. Americans are coddled in a propaganda bubble to think that we are not part of a fascist empire. And our foreign policy of creating Islamist human rights-free states and demonizing those that stand in the way betrays this mythology.
The US policy regarding the Arabs is no different than the British. Our most cherished allies are our Arab allies. We would never dare offend them. We fought for them in the Gulf War, we rescued mujahedin that were allegedly being tormented by Christians (Bosnia), and we just made another state for them (Iraq).
A specific example of our sponsorship of fascism is our creation of the bastard state of Kosovo, governed by the modern day Skenderbeg known as the KLA. This is the epitome of the policy described in 'Blowback'. The KLA government is entirely corrupt and seems to mostly serve as a generator of money from heroin/sex/organ trade.
Another term to acquaint yourself with is 'Arabist'. The entire life/culture of the US and British elitist blue-bloods has always been one of Arabism--a romantic viewpoint of the noble savages in the middleast, and an embracing and tolerance of the inherent antisemitism in said cultures. It is this ideology that melded so well with both the Arabs and Germans during WWII, even as US soldiers died fighting those same Germans.
Once you understand the Arabists (Wisner, Kellen, JF Dulles, A Dulles, the thousand of 'Lawrence of Arabia' worshipping foreign service folks), then the natural alliance between the US and Islam makes more sense, as does the fact that the CIA was created by absorbing much of Germany's WWII Gehlen Org.
A couple of notes:
1) Most of the members of the Arab league were Pan Arab nationalists not religious fanatics.
2) What Jewish slaves of Europe? Most western European Jews were rather well to do as many were upwardly mobile in Germany, the low countries, France, and England. It was in eastern Europe where they remained in some degree in poverty but that did not keep them from making up the bulk of the communist leadership.
3) How do fascist empires operate? The term is a 19th century construct and that type of government was reactive not proactive. There is an extremely limited history of fascist empires.
4) Can you give an example of where fascism crushed anti-fascism beyond Spain, Italy and Germany?
5) Can you detail what type of fascist empire America is a part of slim? I'm not seeing anything remotely akin to the fascism of Spain, Germany or Italy but what I do see is lots and lots of universal slogans and mantras. Universalism is the realm of the proletarian internationalist.
6) "Americans are coddled in a propaganda bubble to think that we are not part of a fascist empire. And our foreign policy of creating Islamist human rights-free states and demonizing those that stand in the way betrays this mythology."-slim
The states we've created (Egypt, Iraq, Turkey, Iran until 1979, the Gulf states) and propped up tend to be rather secular and not so committed to religion with the exception being Saudi Arabia. If you are making a feint toward that damn neo-con neologism Islamofascism please spare me. Our foreign policy in the ME is directed, guided and based on what is good for one country alone.
7) "Our most cherished allies are our Arab allies. We would never dare offend them. We fought for them in the Gulf War, we rescued mujahedin that were allegedly being tormented by Christians (Bosnia), and we just made another state for them (Iraq)."-slim
Dare not to offend them eh? We provoke them at every chance but we also keep them in line by maintaining leaders that will limit the will of those people. Our most cherished ally in the ME is Israel period. How is that not plainly obvious?
I'm not sure how our betrayal of the Serbs is vindication of your claim that we sponsor fascism since Kosovo hardly fits any of the historical outliers of a fascist state. The state was created by our meddling internationalist pinheads that see us as in indispensable nation bathed in progressive internationalism.
BTW: The Russian Mafia, and it has some very specific facets, is the biggest pusher of white slavery.
slim I find your points a bit odd and strung together. Maybe I have not read enough to see where you are going or where you came from but the type of influence you see these fascists in our government pulling off has no base of support beyond the oil spectrum. Now there is another group in this nation that has a very powerful base of support, its history speaks to universal notions of mankind and earthly messiahs. Socialism, communism, humanism, globalism, etc...........it has come up with any number of heaven on earth schemes and they all get out of control and come crashing down.
Again, I'm all ears and wish to hear you out but you seem to be missing the forest for the trees.
McCallum
"1) Most of the members of the Arab league were Pan Arab nationalists not religious fanatics."
Agreed. Muslim leaders, in spite of their pious rhetoric, are hypocritical thugs that work for outside allies. But make no mistake, there has always been a religious component of their ideology, particularly the antiprogressive antisemitism of their faith.
"2) What Jewish slaves of Europe?" Jews were slaves in concentration camps, worked to death so that men like Walter Dornberger could receive accolades and go work for the US government/industry.
"3) How do fascist empires operate? The term is a 19th century construct and that type of government was reactive not proactive. There is an extremely limited history of fascist empires."
They are epitomized by the ancient Greeks and Romans, where almost everyone was a slave and life was brutal and miserable for all but a handful of people. Also epitomized by the 3rd reich. Also epitomized by US leaders, espousers of eugenics ideology, incentivized welfare programs to maintain class statuses, foisters of the same propaganda as was used in the 3rd reich.
"4) Can you give an example of where fascism crushed anti-fascism beyond Spain, Italy and Germany?" Arab defeat of the Persian empire. In fact, you can look at any time or place where Islam has won out (Afghanistan, Iraq, Kosovo) for examples of this. The slaughter of the Banu Qurayza epitomizes this.
"5) Can you detail what type of fascist empire America is a part of slim?" Our foreign policy is what one would expect of a government that absorbed the Gehlen Org. Fortunately, instead of engaging in the same policy domestically, we merely lull the masses into sleep with mostly nonexistent and fictional coverage of US geopolitical actions.
"If you are making a feint toward that damn neo-con neologism Islamofascism please spare me. Our foreign policy in the ME is directed, guided and based on what is good for one country alone."
There's no evidence to corroborate this statement. We are the largest sponsor of genocidal nazi-trained Jewhating jihadists in that region. We have stabbed Israel in the back many times over the past 60 years, probably starting when we sent Otto Skorzeny over there to train Egyptian forces after they lost to Israel. You are bamboozled by big-lies. Which is why you need to buy 'Blowback' to find out just how wrong you are (and just how badly your leaders have been lying to you). Leaders that teach people Jewish conspiracy theory are ALWAYS lying. 2009 years of history have proven this repeatedly.
"Dare not to offend them eh? We provoke them at every chance but we also keep them in line by maintaining leaders that will limit the will of those people. Our most cherished ally in the ME is Israel period. How is that not plainly obvious? "
Because swooping in repeatedly to rescue the PLO or hizbolla, while lynching Israel in our mass media, cannot possibly be construed as pro-Israel policies. Likewise, repeatedly creating sharia states (Afghanistan, Iraq, future palestinian state) cannot possibly be construed as a pro-Israel
policy. Where are we making zionist states? Where are we deploying hasidic Jews to attack people like we deployed mujahedin on the Serbs?
Again, your ideology is fiction-based.
"I’m not sure how our betrayal of the Serbs is vindication of your claim that we sponsor fascism since Kosovo hardly fits any of the historical outliers of a fascist state. "
Kosovo is the epitome of our 60 year (and entirely deliberate) policy detailed in Blowback. Pro corruption, pro Islam, anti-human rights.
I can't force you to escape your misconceptions and bamboozlement. I can only point you to some resources that will do so. Your resources refer to some mythology where Jews, targets of eugenics supporters, targets of the immigration acts of the 1920s, a people whose slave labor was exploited by US leaders and US companies during WWII, somehow commandeered control of the US government, forcing the US government to do everything 'for the Jews'.
This is big-lie, Goebbels inspired BS. It's absurd, it's nonsensical, has no basis in documented fact. Like I said: I can only point you to the resources that will cleanse your mind of this poison (a poison spewed by some of the Arabist writers on this website), I can't force you to read it.
@21, Mr. McCallum, you have made excellent points, but as you will learn, to no avail with Slim. He is simultaneously a victim of the Zionist ideology of "Victim-hood" and one of its more loquacious expositors. You might as well be casting pearls before swine.
Wolff,
Logic does not seem to be your strong suit, as none of the facts I've posted dispute the fact that Jews were gassed and killed in a myriad of ways in various locations.
Your leader Irving already had his trial--and lost famously.
I see that Meng is still smarting from the most recent slapping of his Ustashi-apologist ideology.
slim,
Were you a big fan of Happy Days?
McCallum
Wolff,
why are you so desperately spinning and trying to change the topic to your usual holocaust historical revisionism?
This is actually the usual forum tactic of the foisters of big-lie based evidence-free garbage.
Mccallum, don't be scared but the Fonz is actually a Jooooooo!
My question concerning Happy Days dealt with you jumping the shark.
Reading you is amazing slim. All this time I never knew Arabs had so much influence over the US.
And if that is indeed the case and we are on the fast track to fascism then is it permitted to even speak about that influence?
McCallum
I'm shocked at the lack of spying by all these Arab Fascists.
You'd think with all of the influence they have over the US they would been caught spying on a few times.
Am I missing something?
McCallum
slim,
I don't deny that the Holocaust happened - but I've also been trying to cleanse myself lately of a decade and a half of public school indoctrination, which, contrary to how YOU have analyzed the treatment of Jews by the media and the other American institutions, WAS very sympathetic to Jews. I recall many pages of my history textbooks being devoted to Hitler's policies towards the Jews, with many photos of break-ins and round-ups by the Gestapo, and some concentration camp images . . . - and since I now know the institutions of influence in America (the media, the schools, the academia, and the government) are engaging in policies which will eventually result in the destruction of the West, I am skeptical at the very least towards all my history lessons from gradeschool, middle school, and high school, so at the same time I will not immediately believe the Holocaust happened in the manners and methods I've had described to me . . . unless you could rise to Wolff's challenge in #29?
Mccallum,
You are still clueless: the Arabists have been running the show for for over 70 years. Of course you are not going to see as much big-lie agitprop attacking them: they are the ones putting out the big-lie agitprop, very easily getting the 'intelligentsia' to hate whoever they want them to hate, very easily bamboozling all kinds of idiots to support jihad wherever we support it.
Why do you think blacks have been taught to stab Jews in the back and to defend the Islamic slave traders that sold their ancestors into slavery? Because lying about zionism (a slave movement) is US policy. Lying about Israel is US policy--which is why I have to go to Lexis Nexis and pull up Freda Kirchwey's work from 1948 to learn the truth.
Lying for jihadists is US policy. They don't need to spy: the US State Department is already bending over backwards letting them set up shop wherever they want to (eg. CAIR, Muslim Brotherhood, which paid for Ellison's trip a while ago). A media that whines over nonexistent Jewish control over the government, but remains silent over the fact that the Muslim Brotherhood pays for trips for US congressmen, is not a pro-Israel media--it's a fascist media, not unlike that of WWII Germany.
Brock,
You lose much credibility (and damage that of the 'paleocon' cause by embracing holocaust deniers such as Wolff. In any case hdot dot org has the full details on Irving's defeat in British courts.
"Henryk Tauber arrived in Auschwitz on January 19, 1943. He was assigned to a Sonderkommando which burned the bodies and assisted in the gas chamber operations in Cremas 1, 2, and 4. Tauber recalled the gas chambers in Crema 4 after the war: "The gas chambers were about two meters high and had an electric lighting installation on the walls but they had no ventilation system, which obliged the Sonderkommando who were removing the bodies to wear gasmasks."20 The SS guards regularly wore gas masks when pouring the Zyklon-B pellets into the gas chambers.
Filip Müller, a Slovak Jew who arrived in Auschwitz in April 1942, was put to work as an oven stoker in Crema 1. Müller's job was to drag the corpses from the morgue-turned-gas chamber to the ovens and sort and remove valuables from the abandoned clothing. Later, he was transferred to Birkenau to work in the crematoria and burning pits there.
Müller gave a detailed description of the process of murder in both the Main Camp and Birkenau. He recalled one such gassing in Crema 1: "When the last one had crossed the threshold, two SS leaders slammed shut the heavy iron-studded door which was fitted with a rubber seal, and bolted it . . . the Unterführers on duty had gone onto the crematorium roof . . . They removed the covers from the six camouflaged openings. There, protected by gas-masks, they poured the green-blue crystals of the deadly gas into the gas chamber."21"
That's from the page on the Leuchter report. Perhaps I'll pull out my Simpson book and debunk more of the prevailing conspiracy theory here...
slim,
I didn't embrace him, I merely noticed that until your last post you didn't answer his challenge, you just changed the subject by telling him what you tell everybody else - that you know everything and he knows nothing.
You are in no position to measure the credibility of a paleoconservative. It is a philosophy and set of principles you will NEVER understand. You worship rabidly anti-Christian communist dupes like Martin Luther King, Jr., assumingly because of their support for human rights and civil rights, movements which are by their very nature meaningless and unachievable because a man's thoughts cannot be controlled. You burn incense at the altar of slave liberationist movements, apparently the true nature of Zionism and real Judaism. Egalitarian movements to break down long-standing institutions are what drove the French Jacobins and their intellectual heirs, Marxists, of course.
We are defenders of what remains of the West. By logically extending the main tenets of the Christian faith towards the building of the communities and institutions of Europe, our ancestors created Western civilization. You are proudly not Christian, but Jewish of the most pure Zionist form, so religion is another factor which permanently separates you from our principles. You are in the utmost position to criticize those who purport to be Zionist Jews, but about American conservatism you know nothing. Tend to your own flock, please, unless you want to join ours.
slim,
". . . nonexistent Jewish control over the government, . . ."
P.S. For a government that is not controlled by Jews, there seems to be a lot of them IN it. You've demonstrated that they're obviously not in it for Israel, but there have been many of them over the years and their activities and actions have not usually been to the American people's benefit.
slim,
1) Can you point out specifically what Arabists first gained access to the halls of power in the US some 70 years ago? What watershed event took place in 1939 that put the Arabists in control of the US government?
2) "Why do you think blacks have been taught to stab Jews in the back and to defend the Islamic slave traders that sold their ancestors into slavery? Because lying about zionism (a slave movement) is US policy. Lying about Israel is US policy–which is why I have to go to Lexis Nexis and pull up Freda Kirchwey’s work from 1948 to learn the truth."-slim
The history of Jewish black alliances in this country extend back toward the Leo Frank case. Jewish groups in the north showed little concern for the plight of blacks, specifically in the South, until the Leo Frank case came about. The NAACP formed specifically (anti-lynching laws were never a priority of Jewish groups until the Frank case) as a result of the Frank Case and the leadership remained Jewish until the 1970's. The Oceanhill-Brownsville teachers strike marked the end of various black-Jewish alliances on matters due to blacks demanding a place at the table of leadership. They seem to have become tired of being the avant garde for various social revolutions being championed by the guardians of social justice. I do the subject no true justice in my brief retort.
Concerning slavery: Islam had no impact in the slave trading areas of west Africa. Islam did trade heavily in blacks in east Africa and I will simply point out to you that the vast, vast majority of blacks in this nation came from west Africa. I'm just not certain what your point is concerning slavery.
3) "Lying for jihadists is US policy. They don’t need to spy: the US State Department is already bending over backwards letting them set up shop wherever they want to (eg. CAIR, Muslim Brotherhood, which paid for Ellison’s trip a while ago). A media that whines over nonexistent Jewish control over the government, but remains silent over the fact that the Muslim Brotherhood pays for trips for US congressmen, is not a pro-Israel media–it’s a fascist media, not unlike that of WWII Germany."-slim
As I said before, you seem to be missing the forest for the trees. You point out single actions and single events as if they were everyday things but truth is these items are rare due to the limited influence Arabs and Islam have on the US media (name a few producers or media owners........you cant). Such influence would mean sympathetic characters in the movies and in the print media but such is not the case.
Politically I will speak to an issue of Jewish influence and it deals with a former senator from my home state of North Carolina. Jesse Helms was running a very tight race with Jim Hunt in 1984 and Hunt was getting good press and plenty of cash from various Jewish groups (oddly no Arabist money or Islamic money was going to either candidate) because until that time Helms had been an AVOWED OPPONENT of foreign aid and no nation took (or still takes) in more cash (and no strings are attached in much of the cash) than Israel. Helms was a danger to Israel and Jewish groups targeted him for defeat. Their letter writing campaigns, their extensive connections to people with wealth and their ability to connect with people in the print media all brought much to bear in the campaign which Helms eventually won.
Helms did see the light though. He became a big supporter of Israel and from that point forward he could count on Jewish support.
Does pointing out those facts make me anti-Semitic? Does having a dislike of foreign influence in my local politics make me a fascist as well as anti-Semitic? I have found no evidence of Arabist (and is this Arab Christians or Muslims, you arent specific) or Muslim influence in the local politics of my lands but what I do see is plenty of influence out of West Palm Beach, NYC, San Francisco, Los Angles. I see no Muslim influence in the local schools but what I do see are various front organizations always on the prowl to find any potential form of Christian prayer taking place in the most backwood of school houses.
I'm just not getting your point slim because it seems to bring together views and positions which aren't supported by broad avenues of empirical evidence. Example: Keith Ellison is a Muslim, CAIR is a Muslim organization thus you conclude that your positions about Muslim influence over US leadership are correct despite the very, very, very limited aspects of your basis for truth. On the other hand, you deny the impact of groups like the ADL, SPLC, NAACP,AIPAC, JINSA, etc.-the list is endless not to mention the glut of think tanks which now form a moat around the new Rome-and their decidedly pro-Jewish angle.
I want to give you a fair hearing. I love the detail which comes with the study of subjects so I ask that you, for my benefit and the benefit of learning, produce items that support your position. As it sounds and reads now, you are a shill for the neo-conservatives and their masters.
No disrespect intended, none requested,
McCallum
"1) Can you point out specifically what Arabists first gained access to the halls of power in the US some 70 years ago? What watershed event took place in 1939 that put the Arabists in control of the US government?"
Arabism is the default policy of Western elites. It existed in 1920, when the British elites appointed antisemitic genocider Husseini to lead Arabs. And it has existed continuously since then, as the US has covertly supported genocidal Arabs in the ME, and has used US media to describe said Arabs as 'moderate' while slandering Jews that resist (such as Avigdor Lieberman) as 'hawkish nationalists' (this was in the NYT last week).
Numerous US Secretary of States (Condi has been active on this front) have determined that peace in the ME is not hindered by US support for jihadists, but rather by the presence of Jews in land that belongs to Jews. I wish I could re-find the exact quote in the hdot website, but one of the WWII German generals made reference to the 'occupied territories' in Germany, which was entirely the same as the current US State Dept stance regarding 'occupied territories' in the ME (incidentally, a detailed legal study will reveal that they meet no definition of 'occupied territory').
In short, this longstanding default policy of supporting and colluding with genocidal Arabs IS Arabism. There has never been a time it did not exist. There have only been times when the government media whips the gullible into a frenzy when the populace rejects fossils like Freeman.
"concerning slavery: Islam had no impact in the slave trading areas of west Africa. Islam did trade heavily in blacks in east Africa and I will simply point out to you that the vast, vast majority of blacks in this nation came from west Africa. I’m just not certain what your point is concerning slavery."
From africa history about dot com:"Black Africans were transported to the Islamic empire across the Sahara to Morocco and Tunisia from West Africa, from Chad to Libya, along the Nile from East Africa, and up the coast of East Africa to the Persian Gulf. This trade had been well entrenched for over 600 years before Europeans arrived, and had driven the rapid expansion of Islam across North Africa. "
"As I said before, you seem to be missing the forest for the trees. You point out single actions and single events as if they were everyday things but truth is these items are rare due to the limited influence Arabs and Islam have on the US media (name a few producers or media owners……..you cant)."
It is well documented that Reuters lies continuously for Islamists, it is also well documented that the the US rewrites history to whitewash genocidal Muslims. One can go into lexis nexis, read Freda Kirchwey's articles from 1948 for the primary source proof of this. Those of us familiar with the US betrayal of the Serbs already know this. Arab influence on US policy isn't reported on because it's default policy: we fought for the gulf Arabs, we rescued 'oppressed' jihadists in the Balkans, we Islamified Afghanistan, we Islamified Iraq.
There are Jews in the media, and there is no evidence that any of them are pro-Israel. A pro Israel media would do a show on the 'British Record on partition' and then do an expose on why ALL WESTERN MEDIA lies about the primary source facts contained therein. This alone is proof of that your take on the media has no foundation in fact. Calling genocidal bigots 'moderates' is not a pro-Jewish or pro-Christian policy (said policy was used to whitewash the jihad against the Serbs). A pro Israel media would also do exposes on the facts on CAMERA.org, which document how badly the MSM lies about Israel.
Brzezinski interview from 1979:
"Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic [integrisme], having given arms and advice to future terrorists?
Brzezinski: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?"
This is Arabism in action, pure unadulturated lying for jihadists, alliance with Islamists, using Islamists as our mercenaries. Countries that engage in such policy would be fully expected to fabricate Jewish conpspiracy theories, just as the Germans did. Not surprising given the Gehlen Org origins of US intelligence. The nazi friendliness or antipathy of leaders like the Dulles brothers is well documented in numerous books.
Where are we sponsoring armies of hasidic Jews and helping them spread zionism? It's the least we can do considering all we've done to spread Islam.
"Helms did see the light though. He became a big supporter of Israel and from that point forward he could count on Jewish support."
Jewish values are no different from those of the average American. There's nothing wrong with being anti-foreign aid. But the people that are against it always support our aid for jihadists (the UNRWA) and all the bending over the US does for ARAMCO and similar oil lobbies. It's strange that they only object to the few groups that combat this default support for jihad/oil money Arabs.
"I’m just not getting your point slim because it seems to bring together views and positions which aren’t supported by broad avenues of empirical evidence. Example: Keith Ellison is a Muslim, CAIR is a Muslim organization thus you conclude that your positions about Muslim influence over US leadership are correct despite the very, very, very limited aspects of your basis for truth. On the other hand, you deny the impact of groups like the ADL, SPLC, NAACP,AIPAC, JINSA, etc.-the list is endless not to mention the glut of think tanks which now form a moat around the new Rome-and their decidedly pro-Jewish angle."
The Muslim brotherhood is an Islamic supremacist, nazi allied ideology group. None of the other groups you mention are remotely like that. Your defense of the MB is indicative that much like your leaders, you have a default ideology of seeking to whitewash Islamic supremacist ideology. Do I spend all day worrying about Ellison? of course not. Nothing new under the sun. This has always been real policy:
John Loftus:
"Robert Kaplan, in his bood the Arabists, captures the culture of a society in which antisemitism was an accepted, even unconscious, part of everyday life for the American establishment. As a result, it is not hyperbole to say that the State Dept had a fair number of bigots on its payroll. It was not unusual to find references to 'oily Jews' in official diplomatic reports of both the US and Britain."
Not surprising given that both countries have appointed only the most genocidal, antisemtic Arabs to lead Arabs.
Your great concern with 'Jewish' influence while lying on behalf of the Ellison's official Islamic supremacist sponsors is par for the course for this website, which has people whining about wanting to be isolationists, when in reality they support the spreading of Islam.
@40, Mr. Wolff: I might add that Mr. Freeman is a very talented man apropos the diplomatic world. He knows Mandarin Chinese and Arabic fluently. In 1972 he accompanied President Nixon to China and was instrumental in the negotiations. He would have been my choice for Secretary of State instead of that bimbette, who was chosen to heal Democratic Party fractures instead of any foreign relations experience or talent. Does she have any foreign language skills, either?
@44, Brock: I agree. We must pray for him, then. Thanks.
@73, Slim, The whole world knows what the Arabs did for the British during World War I, except you. Read T. H. Lawrence's Seven Pillars of Wisdom. They revolted against their Turkish masters and conducted guerrilla warfare against them. This assisted General Allenby's conquest of Palestine. The Arabs, however, did not know what Lawrence later knew, that all their efforts were for nought in terms of an independent Arabic Palestine, because the Arabs had been betrayed by the British government, particularly by Sir Mark Sykes, in the secret agreement with the Zionists in 1916.
Hmm, I wonder if you would be bold enough to take a little trip to Saudi Arabia to tell the people just how backward they are - and how they're being duped into it. They need to be freed from their Islamofascist chains, slim! Or are the confines of your multi-bedroom upscale penthouse just too comfy to leave? Just as Geraldo Rivera and pretty much everybody on the Wall Street Journal shills for illegal immigrants on Fox News but won't move to East L.A. to live among them.
The Arabs may give you a break, though, after you show them the light. Maybe they'll ask you questions first and THEN stone you.
The penthouse thing is just a presumption, I admit. Forgive me if you're actually a middle-classer like myself. But it is usually elite big-city white-collar leftists who tow such lines as yours, Thomas Friedman is a good example.
Correction to my 74: T. H. Lawrence should read T. E. Lawrence.
Being smeared by slim is a good thing folks.
I'm now off to bow east and recite the Westminster Confessional and yes I'll be regimental.
McCallum
slim,
We don't defend 7th-century Arab lifestyles. We just accept that they're probably not going to change anytime soon, no matter what organizations are funding their education. Western and Eastern lifestyles are very different.
Slim,
If we had true patriots in the White House and in the Halls of Congress, instead of the wooses we have been plagued with, we would have been over there in Zionist-land long ago to end the bloodshed and tensions that now and have for over sixty years prevailed -- most especially, after the attack on the U.S. Liberty in 1967. You are just lucky, as a Zionist and Israeli sympathizer, that this has not been the case. You are lucky that our nation has been ruled by men on the Israeli take -- and this goes back to Woodrow Wilson. If you want me to believe that AIPAC is "extremely unsuccessful", then go ahead, and dream, dream, dream. The fact that they still exist in this nation is a sign of success.
By the way, Slim, where are your loyalties? Are you a U.S. citizen? Does the U.S.A. come first; or does Israel garner your full fledged support. Have you ever served in the U.S. Armed Forces? Just askin' because you sound so Zionista.
slim,
So you're saying the antebellum South resembled a Muslim fascist country. That's my idea of the model society. People respected authority, God, their communities, their posterity, their nation, and their Constitution, something their Yankee counterparts north of the Mason-Dixon line could not and definitely still cannot say. Of course if you believe societies which did not believe in your abstract, Jacobin egalitarian concepts like civil rights and human rights and equality . . . are all indistinguishable from fascist states, then that's no surprise coming from a Marxist.
Well, that's my loyalty. The America of the past, not something tangible anymore. However, you DO have a loyalty to something that is alive and kicking - Israel. I assume that this is true because every time we ask you dodge the question. Israel may have a lot of battles to fight, but they're still there. Meng and I don't have anywhere to go, just memories of the American Republic to keep alive. That leaves the ball in your court. Care to move to Israel? America is not a place for non-Americans, despite what Bush and Obama will tell you regarding diversity and all that garbage. People with loyalties to other existing nations and states should be with their brethren, shouldn't they???
slim,
Blacks fought proudly alongside their white counterparts in the South for the Confederacy - ever seen any paintings of battle scenes in the War for Southern Independence? Most of them loved their masters like they were related to them by blood. Ever read diary entries by black slaves? Their only hatred was for Lincoln's Yankee-run federal government, seeking to impose their egalitarian will - which was somewhat inspired by the the great warrior for the destruction of the West, Comrade Marx himself - on them and their Southern families.
I guess even talking to my friends at church in person won't convince you that I worship God through His Son Jesus Christ. Like I said, it's not a surprise . . . when Lenin and Trotsky determined, upon consulting their Marxist ideology, that someone in their circle thought maybe terror tactics against the Orthodox Church were getting a little too harsh, they were immediately killed for betraying the revolution. After all, there was no "in-between" loyalty. Either you stand with the workers and their revolution, or you are on their side. This is the most popular fallacy with the totalitarians of the world. Not too much of a surprise that Lenin's next effort after the revolution was the burning of books and all recollections of Russia's past. There is no Russian past anymore, the Kremlin stated. There is only the revolution, and everything that happens AFTER it.
Is this why you refuse to read American history books to discover what kind of country our Founding Fathers built? Because history which does not conform to Marxist-Zionist standards, as a result, does not exist? I read on Wikipedia that Israel has a democratic-socialist government. This, slim, is all the more reason for you to move there! The American government was built as a Republic - quite the opposite of your ideals.
Slim,
Rather be on the Arab side this time around. Face it, this crap isn't about oil, money or against Islamofascism. The last holdouts on this planet, that haven't prostrated themselves to cultural Marxism just happen to be the very nations we are occupying/bombing/threatening in the Middle East. Protracted War is the best way to destroy a civilization/culture. You disrupt honest commerce, family relations, and just about always have a tremendous rise in immorality in the effected nations. Look at what two world wars wrought in Europe and a lesser extent here in the US. The advancement of Marxism/Socialism, along with the symptoms of immorality that usually go along with it(divorce, STDs, illegitimacy, drugs, drunkeness, etc) were the result of the protracted world wars. Wars that were useless, didn't really do any good, but made a certain few rather rich and powerful. World War II is said to be the "Good War", but if the US would have kept it's nose clean it would have never happened. Face it guys and gals, the good ole US of A and its mammoth armed forces is doing what Trostsky and co tried to do in 1919-20 in Poland, and that is to take the world by force for Marxism!!!!! Our values anymore are totally Marxist. All 10 planks of that screwball's manifesto are indeed a reality here to a greater or lesser degrees. THe biggest case of irony in world history is unfolding before our eyes, with the United States, and Israel the main players in furthering the Marxist agenda worldwide, and the communist player China with its commie/nationalist partner Russia playing the role of the foils!!!! You have to hand it to these Marxist elites, they really know how to fool folks.
If the US would have kept it's nose clean by avoiding WWI is what I meant in the above statement.
I invite you all to the North Carolina Ramp Festival on March 29th.
Cherokee Indian Fair Grounds
498 Tsali Boulevard
Cherokee , NC 28719
Ramps might be the only thing that provide more stink than slim.
Now, I shall send the Rockford Institute another donation as they carry the flag high and proud. Instead of fighting with slim just send the crowd in Rockford some money.
McCallum
I guess we missed that one.
There is another couple in Waynesville and other areas of the mountains. I promise no Arabist music.
McCallum