Pakistania Delenda
by Srdja Trifkovic
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That India should accuse Pakistan of involvement in recent Islamic-terrorist outrages in Bombay was to be expected. That the accusation would turn out to be so well founded so quickly, was not. The only lasting solution to the problem of Pakistan is the disappearance of Pakistan from the political map of the world. This goal is realistic, but it cannot be achieved by overt war because of Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal. It can be achieved, however, by exploiting Pakistan’s fundamental weakness: its ethnic, regional and tribal disunity. Actively supported by the civilized world, India need not send any terrorists to Pakistan. She should merely provide support to Baluch, Sindhi, and Northwestern tribal separatists – support of the kind that Islamabad has been giving to Kashmiri jihadists for decades. A Pakistan-free world would be a better and safer world. It can be done and it should be done.
U.S. counterterrorism officials now support India’s claims of Pakistan’s involvement in the attacks in Bombay. They have identified Pakistan’s powerful Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) as the key source of support, finance, and protection for the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), the Islamic terrorist group that almost certainly carried out last month’s attacks. If Pakistan’s involvement is proven – Islamabad’s usual denials notwithstanding – for the non-Muslim world this should be the final straw: proof positive that Pakistan is an irredeemably flawed entity, inherently unable to turn itself into a stable polity or a benign global presence, let alone a half-decent regional neighbor. It needs to be quarantined and its disintegration along its many ethnic-tribal lines actively encouraged.
The problem of Pakistan has been addressed in this column twice over the past six months.
Commenting the resignation of Pakistan’s former president (Musharraf, Out of Tricks, News & Views, August 20), we noted that the myth of Pakistan as an ally of the United States in the “War on Terrorism” should be laid to rest, because that country
remains the epicenter of global jihad, a breeding ground for the new echelons of “martyrs,” and it meets the criteria for a slot on the Axis of Evil. In fact, Pakistan is an enormous Jihadi campus in which some ten thousand madrassas prepare over one million students for the Holy War… It can hardly be otherwise in a country founded on the pillars of Islamic orthodoxy. [It is] the worst violator of the ban on nuclear proliferation, thanks to the work of Abdul Qadeer Khan, the architect of Pakistan’s nuclear program. … He felt that giving nuclear technology to a Muslim country was not a crime. The sentiment is shared by Pakistan’s elite, military as well as civilian, as befits the first modern state to be established on openly Islamic principles.
For as long as the country’s Islamic character is explicitly upheld, we warned, Pakistan cannot reform itself without undermining the religious rationale for its very existence. We concluded that there should be “fewer illusions in Washington about the nature of Pakistan’s problems—and about the problem of Pakistan for the rest of the world.”
Two months earlier we focused on the role of the ISI in supporting Islamic insurgents in Afghanistan (Pakistan, The Taliban’s Indispensable Ally, News & Views, June 11), prompted by a major study by the RAND Corporation that accused “individuals within Pakistan’s government” of effectively crippling American attempts to stabilize the country:
Counterinsurgency in Afghanistan, funded by the Pentagon, merely confirms what Chronicles readers have known for years: that the regime in Islamabad is unwilling and unable to act in any manner inconsistent with its Islamic roots and ethos… If we look at the growing list of terrorist attacks and foiled plots in North America and Western Europe, it is evident that plots stemming from the Afghanistan-Pakistan border region are the single most important threat to Western security… The long list of Pakistan’s proven or suspected links with numerous terrorist attacks in recent years – and notably the 7/7 bombings in London in 2005 – illustrate the ambivalent role of Pakistan in the “War on Terrorism.” The ability of the establishment in Islamabad to run with the hare and hunt with the hounds has been an affront to all enemies of jihad for years.
And finally, on the occasion of Pakistan’s 60th anniversary last year we noted that the ISI is a key link in the global network of Islamic terrorism (Pakistan at 60: A Most Uncertain Ally, News & Views, August 17, 2007):
Not only Taliban but most other Islamic extremist and terrorist movements all over the world were born out of ideas conceived in the battlefields of Afghanistan and subsequently matured and spread from Pakistan’s political, military, and religious establishment. These movements enjoyed the support of the Pakistani military-intelligence structures, and most notably its powerful Inter-Service Intelligence Agency (ISI), a leading promoter of state-sponsored terrorism. It grew rich and mighty, thanks to the U.S. role in helping Islamic fundamentalists fight the Soviets in the 1980s.
In the aftermath of Bombay the diagnosis stands, and urgently demands suitable therapy.
The only lasting solution to the problem of Pakistan is the disappearance of Pakistan from the political map of the world. This goal is realistic, but it cannot be achieved by overt war because of Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal. It can be achieved, however, by exploiting Pakistan’s fundamental weakness: its ethnic, regional and tribal disunity.
In Baluchistan, a huge region bordering Iran and Afghanistan, there is a strong independence movement resulting from what Le Monde Diplomatique’s Selig S. Harrison desribes as a “slow-motion genocide” of tribesmen:
Some 6 million Baluch were forcibly incorporated into Pakistan when it was created in 1947. This is the fourth insurgency they have fought to protest against economic and political discrimination. In the most bitter insurgency, from 1973 to 1977, some 80,000 Pakistani troops and 55,000 Baluch were involved in the fighting.
Most of Pakistan’s natural resources are in Baluchistan, including natural gas, uranium, copper and potentially rich oil reserves, yet Baluchistan remains the most impoverished area of the country. The natives are bitter, and consequently in the current insurgency – unlike that over three decades ago – Islamabad has not been able to play off feuding tribes against each other. For the first time it faces a unified nationalist movement, under younger leadership drawn not only from tribal leaders but also from an educated Baluch middle class. Steady and reliable foreign help would do wonders for that movement.
In neighboring Sindh, nationalists who share Baluch opposition to the Punjabi-dominated military and political elite are reviving their long-dormant dream of a sovereign Sindhi state, or a Sindhi-Baluch union that would stretch along the Arabian Sea from Iran to the Indian border. The assassination of opposition leader Benazir Bhutto – a native of Sindh – a year ago was widely blamed on the Punjabi establishment, with Sindhi nationalists complaining the Punjabi elites treat the province as occupied territory. They say the province might have more influence if the Punjabis stopped killing their leaders. Benazir Bhutto was not the first to die in Punjab: her father Ali was hanged by General Zia ul-Haq – a Punjabi – in 1979. Sindh has the potential to contribute to the prediction that Pakistan may splinter apart within ten years.
The Pashtuns, South and North Waziris and other restive groups in Pakistan’s permanently volatile Federally Administered Tribal Areas will be less willing to support Islamic militants if their nationalist grievances are recognized and supported. The model exists in Iraq’s Sunni “triangle,” where the marriage of convenience between Sunni Arab nationalists and Islamic extremists was broken when the U.S. accepted that no Shia police or military should lord over Sunni areas. A solid promise to the elders of each tribal group in Pakistan of complete self-rule – up to and including sovereign statehood – and the tangible means of achieving it (plus a few million in cash here and there, to sweeten the deal) would quickly end their association with the religious extremists, and make one-fifth of Pakistan ungovernable to the Punjabi elite.
The possibilities are enormous. They should be explored and exploited creatively. Actively supported by the rest of the sane world, India need not send any terrorists to blow up Pakistan’s trains, hotels and restaurants. India merely should provide “moral support” to Baluch, Sindhi, and assorted tribal separatists – support of the kind that Islamabad has been giving to Kashmiri militants for decades. President Mohammad Karzai should do the same from Afghanistan, and he might be happy to comply. After all, a fundamental and irreversible removal of the Pakistani state so stubbornly supportive of his Talibani foes may be a precondition of his own survival.
In this scenario the nuclear arsenal bequeathed by Dr. Khan to Pakistan’s military becomes irrelevant. It should be taken out, of course, but in any event when Pakistan starts imploding its generals will not be tempted to use the bomb any more than Soviet generals were tempted in 1990-1991. They will withdraw into their Punjabi redoubt instead, where they will have only their own people to terrorize and exploit until they are killed by the insurgent mob or forced into Saudi exile.
A Pakistan-free world would be a better and safer world. It can be done and it should be done. Ceterum censeo Pakistanem esse delendam.
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1 Comment by MAR on 8 December 2008:
Pakistan is an Islamic state, and it has a population of 172 million. Although India is only 14% Muslim, its Muslim population is 160 million — just slightly smaller than Pakistan’s. And Islam is growing in India at an accelerated rate, especially among the lower castes.
Furthermore, not only has there been a rise of anti-Western incidents among Islamic groups in India, but also there have been growing incidents of Hindu terrorism as well. India – not Pakistan – I suspect will be the problem for the West in future generations. Camp of the Saints may prove to be prophetic.
2 Comment by David on 8 December 2008:
One tends to overlook the centrifugal forces at work in the Pakistan. Few in our news media ever remark on the disparate ethnic and tribal groups that make up the Pakistani state. We are guided to think of Pakistan as a state like any other, though with a different religious “persuasion.” We are really looking at a kind of artificial state, not unlike Iraq. One hope—and one should not put much stock in it—is that the new regime (is it really new?) in Washington will be rather more cautious in trying to establish “democratic”regimes in such “countries,” looking always for the inner freedom lover in the members of the population!
3 Comment by george on 8 December 2008:
Anyone heard of Vanga the Seer? Her prophecies were published in “Pravda” before the Mumbai attack and said WW3 would begin in 2010 following an attack in Hindustan (which I assume to be India).
Pakistan made a deal with the devil supporting Islamic insurgents around the world backed by the CIA and Saudi Arabia. Complaints of Hindu terrorism are hyper-hypocrisy. If Pakistan is being set up for the fall then you reap what you sow. You also have to remember India’s eastern flank Bangladesh.
The US and Canada helped Pakistan establish a nuclear weapons program and they knew during the 80’s that Pakistan was developing a nuclear weapons program.
@2MAR: “India – not Pakistan – I suspect will be the problem for the West in future generations”
Can’t be any worse than Pakistan, even if it were to become a Hindu nationalist state.
@3David: It’s funny how the US is selective in promoting democracy only when it suits its geopolitical objectives. It has bombed and killed millions of people to impose a democratic form of government on countries, which usually includes a central bank and ruling oligarchy.
Over the years it has even deposed and killed democratically elected leaderes it opposes and supported undemocratic ones that support their agenda. They can bomb Iraq and threaten war with Iran and Syria yet are totally in bed with Saudi Arabia. Only a blind ideologue can’t see this as just a pretext for Washington’s geo-political manoeuvres.
4 Comment by george on 8 December 2008:
@Srdja: I think if Pakistan feels that it is threatened with a break-up supported by elements in India, it will try to take down India with it. I don’t imagine a Gorbachev-style leadership in Pakistan or a transitional force like Yeltsin (in respect to territorial boundaries).
@1MAR: “True, Pakistan is an Islamic state, but it only has a population of 172 million.”
Re. population density that’s a lot of people considering the size of Pakistan.
Russia has a population of 250 million and it is the size of the US and Europe combined.
5 Comment by Michael Kenny on 8 December 2008:
“Actively supported by the rest of the sane world …”
The one thing the sane world (and a large part of the insane world!) has learned is not to meddle in other countries’ affairs! It’s a cure worse than the disease!
6 Comment by gargi on 8 December 2008:
I think Chris Hitchens put it well in an article he wrote a while back
…”.The bitterest and longest battle between Islamic jihad and its foes is a struggle not between jihad and the West, or jihad and the Jews, but between jihad and Hindu/secular India. It is a matter not of East versus West but of East versus East.” Me thinks Mr. Hitchens had a smart Jewish grandmother
I would put the Muslim population in India as much as 20% and it is getting larger with aggressive Muslims pouring in from Bangladesh pouring into places like Assam and displacing the local tribal people there.
I think the biggest tragedy that happened to India was that Islam ever set foot there–it has already happened–a far worse tragedy than even colonialism. India was largely Buddhist before the coming of Islam, not HIndu, and Buddhism was India’s native answer to the problem of caste, accepting everyone regardless of caste… I am hoping that with no oil money supporting the spread of Isalm when the world will turn to alternative sources of energy, Muslims will become benign and perhaps even take up more peaceful religions like Buddhism.
Mr. Geroge you are right –the so-called HIndu terrorism is a hype of liberal western media and a reaction to agressive Missionaries and to agressive Islam….
7 Comment by David on 8 December 2008:
One of the significant aspects of Islam is that they do not abort their children. Muslims seem to be exceptionally fecund. Hence, it is likely that this population, worldwide, will continue to have among the highest reproductive ratios in the world. And with what results, we know! Maybe all your grandkids should be guided to begin studying the Q’ran in preparation for their futures! Mine are studying Mandarin, though.
As Alan Carlson once quipped, the future belongs to those who breed (I’m paraphrasing) and that ain’t the West. Indeed, even in India, the population is increasing at a decreasing rate, at least among, expecially, educated Hindus.
8 Comment by Boba on 8 December 2008:
To those who wonder what’s in the name Mumbai vis-à-vis Bombay…. I found the following in Wiki ….
The name “Mumbai” is an eponym, etymologically derived from Mumba or Maha-Amba – the name of the Hindu goddess Mumbadevi – and Aai, “mother” in Marathi. The former name Bombay had its origins in the 16th century when the Portuguese arrived in the area and called it by various names, which finally took the written form Bombaim, still common in current Portuguese use. After the British gained possession in the 17th century, it was anglicised to Bombay, although it was known as Mumbai or Mambai to Marathi and Gujarati-speakers, and as Bambai in Hindi and Urdu.The name was officially changed to its Marathi pronunciation of Mumbai in 1996.[9]
“Mumbai” written in Marathi at the Taj Mahal Palace & Tower.A widespread explanation of the origin of the traditional English name Bombay holds that it was derived from a Portuguese name meaning “good bay”.This is based on the fact that bom (masc.) is Portuguese for “good” whereas the English word “bay” is similar to the Portuguese baía (fem., bahia in old spelling). The normal Portuguese rendering of “good bay” would have been boa bahia rather than the grammatically incorrect bom bahia. However, it is possible to find the form baim (masc.) for “little bay” in sixteenth-century Portuguese…..
9 Comment by george on 8 December 2008:
@7gargi
Hitchens is a worm who changes his views depending if it aligns itself with Neocon political objectives.
This guy is a former Marxist now conservative, pro-Jihadist in the Balkans supporting Bosnian and KLA Muslim terrorists over our brother Serbs and probably supported Kashmiri terrorists before 9/11 like the rest of the media did. Now that the Neocons are suddenly against Islamic extremism only in certain parts of the world he supports that to.
Just because he’s writing stuff against Muslims now don’t expect him not to change his tune if India takes a nationalist turn and goes against Globalisation.
Remember the CIA, MI6, Saudis, etc. helped Pakistan set up the training camps to recruit and train Muslim insurgents all over the world, inc. India, Russia, Yugoslavia, Central Asia, etc. Brzezinski with Pakistani intelligence created international terrorism. And members of Obama’s staff have a long history in working with Islamic militants: Brzezinski, Gates and General Jones who helped engineer the 99 KLA/NATO bombing.
Brzezinski’s Grand Chessboard book defines Russia, China and India as targets for potential resistance against US global hegemony, and he is new Obama’s senior foreign policy advisor.
Does India support a state religion like Putin does in Russia? That doesn’t mean it be anti-Muslim or any other religion. Putin visits synagogues and mosques but he definitely set the standard that Russia is a Christian Orthodox country — and that is the foundation of the Russian state. It was even introduced into school curriculum, which the late Alexey II helped introduce. Of course the western media and pundits have attacked him for this calling him the new Czar and all this other nonsense.
What are the state holidays in India?
10 Comment by Gordon Tryon on 8 December 2008:
Or, “David,” as Mark Steyn more notoriously wrote, “the future belongs to the fecund and the confident,” i.e., Islam on both counts. What Bertrand Russell called “that strange sterility that follows the West wherever it goes” has long since caught up with India. Hinduism has been called the great absorber but Islam sticks in its craw. India’s vulnerability to the dark crescent is doubly acute insofar as Muslims regard Hinduism as unmitigatedly heathenish and outside the pale of the so-called “peoples of the book,” on the one hand, and owing to the comparatively passive and other-worldly bent of its doctrines on the other. The ineptitude on display in Mumbai seemed to epitomize the Hindu’s weakness for resignation and renunciation. The benign elephant will prove no match for the irascible tiger.
11 Comment by Kirt Higdon on 9 December 2008:
This India/Pakistan, Hindu/Moslem quarrel is another one for the US just to stay out of. Of course, that means getting out of Afghanistan and ending any aid or military sales both to the Pakis and the Indians. Unfortunately, minding our own business has no appeal to either liberals or “national greatness conservatives”.
12 Comment by Grumpy Old Man on 9 December 2008:
Hmm. So you’re saying the U.S. shouldn’t have interfered in Serbia and promoted the independence of Kosovo, but we should mess with Pakistan?
Perhaps Pakistan and we would be better off if the country were divided into five–Balochistan, Pashtoonistan, Sindh, Punjab, and Kashmir–but just this once, might we not leave it to the Pakis?
13 Comment by Grumpy Old Man on 9 December 2008:
Well, on rereading it’s clear Dr. T would (a) leave it to the Indians; and (b) abandon the current US propping-up of Pakistan.
If only our supply lines to Afghanistan didn’t run right through Pakistan.
14 Comment by Srdja Trifkovic on 9 December 2008:
#14: Exactly! And besides, even actively helping India do what needs to be done (politically and logistically) is fully justified by what Pakistan has been doing to the infidel world for years.
15 Comment by george on 9 December 2008:
@14Srdja Trifkovic: The US should breask apart, as well as Pakistan and Britian, which is the international centre for terrorist/separtist groups. That way it will stop interfering and trying to break apart opposing countries to their hegemony and financing Islamic terrorists, like they did in Yugoslavia and have been doing for over a decade in Russia and Central Asia.
A revolution at home might restore the Republic from being an empire.
16 Comment by Joseph Salemi on 9 December 2008:
What happens in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, or Iraq is none of our bloody business. Just as it was also none of our business what happened in Serbia or the Balkans in general.
What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If we disapproved of the outrageous and murderous American-led NATO intervention in the Serbian crisis some years back, then we can’t approve of outside interference in the affairs of Pakistan. If either India or Pakistan is going to fall apart, let them do so without our collusion or connivance or advice or help.
The very first American coin, the “Fugio” cent, had this motto on it: MIND YOUR BUSINESS. Maybe we should petition the mint to re-issue it.
17 Comment by gargi on 9 December 2008:
The problem with Pakistan is that they are confused as to their identity as a nation. Muslims in the sub-continent are converts: people who took up Islam because they could not afford to pay high taxes for being non-Muslims, or because of economic pressures, or to advance in a Muslim court, or becasue they saw Islam as liberating them from a low caste status. The problem with Islam seems to be that it requires you to forget your pre-Islamic past and submit to Arab history and past, and so results in a kind of forced cultural amnesia as to your pre-Isalmic past. Which is why Pakistanis claim to have preposterous Arab geneologies. My Iranian friends who still have a cultural memory say that the Mullahs in Iran are trying to do the same: to destroy the pre-Isalmic past of Iran, but in vain. The Mullahs tried to ban new year in Iran, a Zoorastrian holiday and the most important holiday in that country. No one showed up for work. The Iranians are peculiar in that they have a strong cultural attachment to their pre-Islamic past. Because they still have a cultural memory, there is hope that they will get rid of the Mullahs in that country and moderate forces will take over. I see much hope for the regions Muslims if Iran becomes moderate and shows an example.
This article speaks of a Panjabi dominated elite in Pakistan. In India Panjabis are rough peoples–but very hard working and intelligent. This is largely because Panjab was the gateway of all the barbarian invasions of India, so they are historically messed up. I can only imagine the Panjabi character in a muslim mould…As concerns historical amnesia, Kashmir is the most tragic of all. Kashmir was the last area to be penetrated by Islam and the cradle of HIndu and Buddhist (it was here that HIndu converts to Buddhism gave birth to Mahayana Buddhism) culture. After a series of forced conversions and economic pressure to convert the valley became dominantly Muslim. Many Muslims even still have Kashmiri Pandit last names but do not want to admit they are converts but claim all kinds of foreign and Arab geneologies. After being radicalized with the help of Pakistan Sufism has died out in the valley; they have driven out the non-Muslim inhabitants of the valley who live as refugees in their own country and are termed “migrants” by the administration. These are people who have been living in Kashmir and following their Hindu and Buddhist religions before Isalm ever came into existence in Saudi Arabia. Many have worked hard and come out of the refugee camps and have become successful people in the modern world and are now doctors and engineers. I think Nehru a Kashmiri Pandit could never have imagined that the Kashmiri Pandits would have met such a fate from the Muslims of Kashmir. Look at Kashmir today. It is hell hole. Even middle class Muslims have left the valley. What remains of its former glory is just its ruins which are gradually being razed down by fanatic Muslims so all traces of its great non-Islamic past will be completely wiped out for future generations, as they have forcibly removed all non-Muslims from the valley.
I do not blame anyone but Hindus themselves. After repeated foreign invasions they are but shadows of their former selves, and they have lost the original spark. Nobel Laureate V. S. Naipaul, although tart tongued and bitter and not very likeable, speaks the truth when he says HIndu culture comes to an end at 1000 A.D. However, there are pockets of civilization left in India. How long that will last…and can it regenerate and revitalize the nation?
As to the hyped Hindu nationalism in Western media, it is largely a reaction to the corrupt politics of the Congress party. The Congress party has been patronizing conservative Muslim religious leaders to win Muslim votes. In 1985, the supreme court ruled for a common civil code –this was overturned by Rajiv Gandhi to please Muslim religious clerics to win Muslim votes. And now things have moved to such a state that it will be almost impossible to have a uniform civil code without there being riots. Anyway, Hindus are to blame. They are divided amongst themselves and do not galvanize and only move when something directly affects them. Moreover, thanks to Marxist historians and the white washing of Indian history, they have an amnesia about their past and are passive. Well a culture that does not have the will fight against agression and defend itself does not deserve to survive and will not survive. The Chinese next door, although starting out much poorer, have shown they love their country and are moving ahead….
http://www.panunkashmir.org/appeal/index.html
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18 Comment by gargi on 9 December 2008:
@george
These are the public holidays in India–I found it on the web.
4 days for Christians (2% of population)
4 days for Muslims
7 for Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, and Zain combined
3 days for Independence, Republic and Gandhi’s Birthday.
I think it is not so bad for a so-called Hindu Fundamentalist country!
10 Jan Muharram (Islamic New Year). —
26 Jan** Republic Day.
Feb* Mahashivratri.
Feb/Mar* Mahavir Jayanthi.
9 Mar* Milad-Un-Nabi (Birth of the Prophet).
10 Apr Good Friday.
13 Apr Easter Monday.
2 May* Buddha Purnima.
15 Aug** Independence Day.
Sep* Janmashtami.
Sep/Oct* Dussehra (Vijaya Dashami).
20-21 Sep Id ul Fitr (End of Ramadan).
2 Oct** Mahatma Gandhi’s Birthday.
18 Oct Deepavali or Diwali (Festival of Lights).
Nov* Guru Nanak’s Birthday.
27-28 Nov Idu’l Zuha/Bakrid (Feast of the Sacrifice).
25 Dec Christmas Day.
26 Dec Boxing Day.
19 Comment by Etienne Gervaise on 9 December 2008:
A Pakistan-free world would be a better and safer world. It can be done and it should be done. Ceterum censeo Pakistanem esse delendam.
Quite. But if the west is any example to follow, the birthrate decreases as the tax rate goes up. Perhaps the meddlers in Washington can convince them to invest in infrastructure projects building dams, highways and bridges. The madrassas can switch from Jihad training to CCC style make-work projects developing a new network of National Parks in the Tribal regions. A decrease in their inbreeding would certainly be a nice start. Plus, money in their pockets would stop them from flooding the civilized world.
20 Comment by george on 9 December 2008:
@19Etienne Gervaise
It would take billions of dollars in aid and security funds to raise the standard of the country. In addition, you have the lawless tribal regions, Afghan drug trafficking groups and foreign Jihadists who have been in the country for years: Chechens and Uzbeks in Warziristan, Afghanis, Algerians, etc. It would be easier to modernise North Korea and bring them into the fold.
MI6 has been working with Pakistani intelligence to recruit British-Pakistani Muslims to fight in foreign Jihads. Pakistan is a Frankenstein’s monster, a creation of western intelligence and policy-makers.
21 Comment by gargi on 10 December 2008:
Mr. Trifkovic thank you for pointing the truths regarding Pakistan. However, India is run by a corrupt congress party that does anything to win Muslim votes in order to stay in power and does a number of other things to retain hold on power. You would think that after all these bomb blasts Hindus would wake up but they still vote for the Congress as was evident in the Sate elections. They can be very disappointing. India is not a monolithic country composed of one group, while there are many intelligent people people, there are also people there of very low caliber such as those who run the Congress government and the newspapers. The government is incapable of thinking in strategic terms. While all the terrorist camps are in Muzaffarabad in Pakistan controlled Kashmir, Congress wants to have trade with Pakistan and has recently opened this area to trade, knowing well that all the terrorists pour into Kashmir from this area. They have done nothing for their own citizens who were expelled from Kashmir. These people had to leave their homes and fend for themselves because they do not constitute a large voting bloc and hence are expendable. Moreover, since they are an educated community mostly involved in educational pursuits and are mild peoples, the world media was also silent. Imagine if that amount of Muslims were kicked out of their homes in Kashmir. There would be global jihad and the liberal newspapers around the world would be in uproar. So as long as the thinking of the spineless Indian government is “how might we please Pakistan” there will be no change and I am certain India will also face greater internal radicalization of Muslims which is happening already and other instability. India has already lost Kashmir and most Indians are not even aware of this fact. Soon it will gradually lose places like Assam. Even in terms of education, the solution of the government is quotas for different ethnic groups. Fixed quotas for certain groups or affirmative action is 75% in some Sates and has already destroyed higher education. This is their solution to win votes instead of establishing quality free education for everyone. Also the liberal media there is toxic and are feeding trash to the public. They have begun to copy newspapers here and most news is mindless gossip and entertainment. From what I have observed there, is one clean politician Mr. Narendra Modi who is running his State well, but there has been all kinds of baseless charges by the media that he was involved in the Gujrat riots. I mean do you think they would let him be in power if he was really involved? Regardless of the media campaign against people voted for him and Muslims as well because they are also prospering when the State as a whole prospers and he has run the State very well.
Anyway, the current politics there are very disappointing. Hindus themselves are to blame. Look at the way they deal with the Pakistan situation. Would any other country in the world put up up with this kind of nonsense? Only India.
22 Comment by gargi on 10 December 2008:
I do not think that breaking up Pakistan is a solution but India should seal its borders with it. Also with Bangladesh. This would be a start. But a strong government in India that is capable of thinking strategically is needed for this kind of thing to happen so it is only wishful thinking. Talking to Afghans, they are also very angry at Pakistan. I sympathize with the Afghan people. All the barbaric Turkish invasions of India passed through there. The original confluence of Buddhist, Zoorastrian and Brahmanic cultures was destroyed in Afghanistan and the ethnic composition of people changed there and the place became semi-barbaric. The remnant of the former culture is found in the hundreds of Buddhist caves in Afghanistan which the Taliban like to destroy. The country then became a victim of the war games of the super powers which further destroyed whatever remnant of civilization that was left. The result is total anarchy. So the people there have borne and suffered a great deal. It is hard to believe that the Sanskrit Gramarian Panini who wrote the first book on Sanskrit grammar (not even the Greeks had a book on Grammar) wrote his book near the Kabul river. Rumi was also from Balkh, where there was a confluence of Buddhist, Zoroastrian and Brahmanic cultures upset by marauding Islam. The people there have no historical memory of their past and do not wish to have one anymore.
23 Comment by gargi on 10 December 2008:
One last thing I have to clear up regarding to so called “HIndu terrorism”. Many tribal people have been converted to Christianity by missionaries. Some have been won over by the native religions. There has been in fighting amongst them. This is tribals fighting each other. I do not see this as Hindu terrorism. The greatest irony occurred when the ATS chief given the task of uncovering imaginary “HIndu terrorism” by the Congress government met his end from the Ak-47 of a real terrorist during the Bombay attacks.
24 Comment by george on 10 December 2008:
@21gargi
But what about the role of MI5/MI6 with the aid of Saudi intelligence financing and recruiting British Muslims to fight in Chechnya, Bosnia, Afghanistan, India and Pakistan from British Mosques.
You seem to disregard the role of the UK and US supporting Islamic extremism worldwide.
As I said before the war on trerror is a hoax and what we have is Islamic mercenery fighting on behalf of the CIA and western intelligence financed and supported by there client states in the Mid East.
Abu Hamza who was running the Finsbury Park mosque that was recruiting militants to fight overseas speacifically Bosnia, Chechnya and Kashmir was revealed during his trial that during the 90’s MI5 knew what he was doing approached him and said it was okay.
http://www.larouchepac.com/news/2008/12/10/british-and-saudi-intelligence-recruit-terrorists-british-mo.html
25 Comment by gargi on 10 December 2008:
I do not know too much about MI5 or MI6 but the British have done a number of shady things when it is in their interest. Similar to today, back in 1780 China was exporting a lot of goods and but did not want to buy European goods. Warren Hastings(first governor of British India) came up with the idea of exporting opium to balance the trade with China. Amitav Ghosh who wrote the ‘Sea of Poppies” claims that opium was the essential commodity that financed the British Raj in India. Under the British, India was the biggest exporter of Opium and the trade carried on until the 1920’s. But he is a leftist and is in the camp of those who blame everything on the British. The British also gave a lot to India. What is taboo in India is to speak of what what the Islamic rulers did there–when you open the subject you are considered a Hindu nationalist psycho. It is not so much the history of British rule but the history of Islam in India which has been whitewashed.
Recently the banks there are being bailed out with some Chinese funds and Arab funds. I was surprised when the British Foreign Secretary told the Dalai Lama that Tibet was a part of China…a while back they were deciding whether to go to the Olympics or not because of the Chinese crackdown on Tibetans. And regarding Saudi Arabia, it is common knowledge everywhere that oil money is what has been funding Islamic radicalism. Saudi builds hospitals and such in Pakistan under the condition that they practice a certain version of Islam. The NY times carried an article about this a while back….But soon oil will run out and then this will be an end to radical Islam because there will be no money to fund it everywhere and oil dictatorships will have to work hard to survive like everyone else….
Regarding America’s involvement in Afghanistan, the movie Charlie Wilson’s war depicts this. After the Americans left Afghanistan Pakistan took advantage of the situation. What the movie leaves out is that Pakistan stole about 1 billion of American money which was to go through from Pakistan to Afghanistan for them to fight the Russians and used it to arm the insurgents in Kashmir. It is no coincidence that Hindus are driven out of Kashmir in 89 although they have been terrorized from time to time by the Muslims there since the day Islam set foot in Kashmir.
26 Comment by gargi on 10 December 2008:
@George
I do not know too much about MI5 or MI6 but the British have done a number of shady things when it is in their interest. Similar to today, back in 1780 China was exporting a lot of goods and but did not want to buy European goods. Warren Hastings(first governor of British India) came up with the idea of exporting opium to balance the trade with China. Amitav Ghosh who wrote the ‘Sea of Poppies” claims that opium was the essential commodity that financed the British Raj in India. Under the British, India was the biggest exporter of Opium and the trade carried on until the 1920’s. But he is a leftist and is in the camp of those who blame everything on the British. The British also gave a lot to India. What is taboo in India is to speak of what what the Islamic rulers did there–when you open the subject you are considered a Hindu nationalist psycho. It is not so much the history of British rule but the history of Islam in India which has been whitewashed.
Recently the banks there are being bailed out with some Chinese funds and Arab funds. I was surprised when the British Foreign Secretary told the Dalai Lama that Tibet was a part of China…a while back they were deciding whether to go to the Olympics or not because of the Chinese crackdown on Tibetans. And regarding Saudi Arabia, it is common knowledge everywhere that oil money is what has been funding Islamic radicalism. Saudi builds hospitals and such in Pakistan under the condition that they practice a certain version of Islam. The NY times carried an article about this a while back….But soon oil will run out and then this will be an end to radical Islam because there will be no money to fund it everywhere and oil dictatorships will have to work hard to survive like everyone else….
Regarding America’s involvement in Afghanistan, the movie Charlie Wilson’s War depicts this. After the Americans left Afghanistan, Pakistan took advantage of the situation. What the movie leaves out is that Pakistan stole about 1 billion of American money which was to go through from Pakistan to Afghanistan for Afghans to fight the Russians and used it to arm the insurgents in Kashmir. It is no coincidence that Hindus are driven out of Kashmir in 89 although they have been terrorized from time to time by the Muslims there since the day Islam set foot in Kashmir.
27 Comment by george on 10 December 2008:
@26gargi
I’ve noticed that pattern in Kosovo, Chechnya and Kashmir militant groups create instability causing government intervention then when they seize control they kick out the local inhabitants and use that as a type of parasite state to further destabilise the host country as a whole financed and supported by foreign front Islamic charities, organised crime and a fascist theological bases a mix of extreme nationalism and wahabaism
Didn’t know about Kashmir but the entire ethnic Russian population of Chechnya and minority ethnic group on the bordering state have been ethnically cleansed.
In Kosovo the Serb population has almost entirely been cleansed and the ones remaining by KLA militia.
Haven’t saw Charlie Wilsons War but the US still had a presence in Pakistan and Afghanistan after the war running training camps.
In 89 financing and militants moved there operation to Bosnia.
There’s even a list of the major contributors militants themselves listed as there major contributors discovered in 2002 called The Golden Chain.
28 Comment by gargi on 11 December 2008:
@gargi
Did not know that ethnic Russian were killed in Chechnya. I do not know too much about the history of that region. That is what happened to the Kashmiri Pandits in Kashmir–they were ethnically cleansed by the insurgents supported by Pakistan–people who had been living in Kashmir for thousands of years. Nehru, the father of Indian secularism, was also a Kashmiri Pandit. The biggest problem in Kashmir was that no one from outside was allowed to own land there outside Kashmiris–so the insurgents took advantage of this. Had this law been revoked you would not have had a problem but it is too late now. Islam entered the valley around 1400 and Kashmir was the last place to be fully penetrated by Islam. The Arabs had always dreamed of expanding into a beautiful place like Kashmir. Considering the valley is now ethnically cleansed to be 100% Muslim, it seems they have achieved this. The historical roots of Kashmir are Hindu and Buddhist and it also had at times Sikh rulers. Kashmir is the cradle of Hindu culture and is also very holy for the Buddhists due to Mahayana Buddhism. This is why Hindus are very attached to it, just as Mecca is holy for the Muslims. If you read the history of the Kashmiris, it is really tragic–a series of forced conversions after the entry of Islam. You will see the culture declined and ceased to produce anything except for the gardens for some Muslim rulers and some Sufi saints–an influence of Buddhism and Hinduism on Islam. Arts, painting, literature all went into decline and you just have Islamic crafts like carpets and shawls. Comparing Kashmir to before and after Islam–you can see something went wrong. But regardless, the Muslims of Kashmir were Sufis and allowed the original native inhabitants to exist there until recently when they became radicalized. So any peace there has to take into account non-Muslims who had been living there from before Islam came into existence. The Kashmiri Pandits are very old people with 100% literacy. They left the valley after Muslim insurgents began to attack them. This could happen anytime–when you were walking or at work, you would just get threats anytime. The government lost control of the State and the Pandits had to leave because they were being killed. And what is peculiar is that a lot of these insurgents there are not even Kashmiri. Also what is odd is the absence of any concern by the liberal world media when HIndus were ethnically cleansed. One can imagine if it were the other way around….It is really depressing. For us the only thing that remains of old Kashmir is the ruins..one can only weep, it is too depressing to talk about. Recently the Government wanted some land for pilgrims who go to the Amarnath shrine. The Muslims protested in the thousands saying Hindus want to build settlements. Who wants to and can live up in Amarnath where there is nothing but snow and ice?
But the Muslims have also paid the price for their violence–Kashmir has become really dirty now and the educational standards in the schools have declined horribly after the Pandits left. The Indian army had to kill many insurgents to retain control of the State. Even middle class educated Muslims have left….
You know Kashmir receives a great deal of subsidies from the Indian government. The Indian government spends thousands of times more on on a person in Kashmir than on a person from Bihar, the poorest State of India. It is hard to see what exactly these people are fighting for. The Indian government wanted to win them though developing the area as it did in places like Sikkim but it has not worked because of the insurgents…
So I think it is more of a problem with Islam not conforming to the Majority culture. It is time people place more responsibility on Islamic leaders for the plight of their people.
The only thing that will end radical Islam is the cutting off its blood supply which is oil money–and I see this happening as people will turn to alternative sources of energy.
This site give a bit of information about the Kashmir situation:
http://www.panunkashmir.org/index.html
29 Comment by gargi on 11 December 2008:
@george
28.
@gargi
Did not know that ethnic Russian were killed in Chechnya. I do not know too much about the history of that region. That is what happened to the Kashmiri Pandits in Kashmir–they were ethnically cleansed by the insurgents supported by Pakistan–people who had been living in Kashmir for thousands of years. Nehru, the father of Indian secularism, was also a Kashmiri Pandit. The biggest problem in Kashmir was that no one from outside was allowed to own land there outside Kashmiris–so the insurgents took advantage of this. Had this law been revoked you would not have had a problem but it is too late now. Islam entered the valley around 1400 and Kashmir was the last place to be fully penetrated by Islam. The Arabs had always dreamed of expanding into a beautiful place like Kashmir. Considering the valley is now ethnically cleansed to be 100% Muslim, it seems they have achieved this. The historical roots of Kashmir are Hindu and Buddhist and it also had at times Sikh rulers. Kashmir is the cradle of Hindu culture and is also very holy for the Buddhists due to Mahayana Buddhism. This is why Hindus are very attached to it, just as Mecca is holy for the Muslims. If you read the history of the Kashmiris, it is really tragic–a series of forced conversions after the entry of Islam. You will see the culture declined and ceased to produce anything except for the gardens for some Muslim rulers and some Sufi saints–an influence of Buddhism and Hinduism on Islam. Arts, painting, literature all went into decline and you just have Islamic crafts like carpets and shawls. Comparing Kashmir to before and after Islam–you can see something went wrong. But regardless, the Muslims of Kashmir were Sufis and allowed the original native inhabitants to exist there until recently when they became radicalized. So any peace there has to take into account non-Muslims who had been living there from before Islam came into existence. The Kashmiri Pandits are very old people with 100% literacy. They left the valley after Muslim insurgents began to attack them. This could happen anytime–when you were walking or at work, you would just get threats anytime. The government lost control of the State and the Pandits had to leave because they were being killed. And what is peculiar is that a lot of these insurgents there are not even Kashmiri. Also what is odd is the absence of any concern by the liberal world media when HIndus were ethnically cleansed. One can imagine if it were the other way around….It is really depressing. For us the only thing that remains of old Kashmir is the ruins..one can only weep, it is too depressing to talk about. Recently the Government wanted some land for pilgrims who go to the Amarnath shrine. The Muslims protested in the thousands saying Hindus want to build settlements. Who wants to and can live up in Amarnath where there is nothing but snow and ice?
But the Muslims have also paid the price for their violence–Kashmir has become really dirty now and the educational standards in the schools have declined horribly after the Pandits left. The Indian army had to kill many insurgents to retain control of the State. Even middle class educated Muslims have left….
You know Kashmir receives a great deal of subsidies from the Indian government. The Indian government spends thousands of times more on on a person in Kashmir than on a person from Bihar, the poorest State of India. It is hard to see what exactly these people are fighting for. The Indian government wanted to win them though developing the area as it did in places like Sikkim but it has not worked because of the insurgents…
So I think it is more of a problem with Islam not conforming to the Majority culture. It is time people place more responsibility on Islamic leaders for the plight of their people.
The only thing that will end radical Islam is the cutting off its blood supply which is oil money–and I see this happening as people will turn to alternative sources of energy.
This site give a bit of information about the Kashmir situation:
http://www.panunkashmir.org/index.html
30 Comment by Sean Scallon on 11 December 2008:
Dr. Trifkovic is right to describe the vexing problems that Pakistan presents many nations of the world, especially the problem of terrorism. And he is right to say that the Pakistani government, any Pakistani government for that matter, is incapable of controlling the elements in the military and the ISI that support such terrorism without calling the whole existence of the state into question. However, as someone who opposed the eventual break-up and destruction of Yugoslavia, I find the idea of promoting the break-up and destruction of Pakistan a little more than extreme.
We can all agree that the nuclear weapons issue is moot point when it comes to secession and likewise such weapons are more than useless when such crisis breaks out.
However, that does not mean the central authorities in Islamabad will allow Baluchistan, the NWFP and the Sindh to go quietly. No, they will do is what all central governments do when it comes to secession (at least at first) and that includes the U.S., Georgia, Nigeria, and Yugoslavia and that is to fight to maintain the exisitence of the state and this case they may very well fight hard against the would-be secessionists, causing untold misery and destruction.
Beyond this, what would come out of a dissolved Pakistan is anyone’s guess. No doubt the Pastuns of the NW would declare the Durand Line between Afghanistan and Pakistan null and void and would try to create Pashtun super-state that would blow up the situation in Afghanistan and may encourage the states to Pakistans north, the Uzbekistan and Tajikistan to intervene to protect fellow Uzbeks and Tajiks and grab what piece of Afghanistan they could. An independent Baluchistan would no doubt distabilize Iran with its own large population of Baluchis. No doubt India would try to annex all of Kashmir and try to settle the issue once an for all which may preclude a conflict between the Punjab center and India which may blow up into a nuclear exchange. And if this all happens, what to prevent the disease of secessionitis to spread throughout India with its own patchwork of diverse groups and tribes, not to mention over 150 million Muslims who may be encouraged towards jihadism and become an insurgency group the Indian government would have spend untold millions to stamp out.
This wouldn’t be the first time India participated in the break-up of Pakistan, since it was the Indian army that invaded what was once East Pakistan and created the unstable Muslim entity of Bangladesh in 1971. Now the exisitence of Bangladesh does not threaten India per say, but the existence of lots of little Bagladeshes on India’s borders may make them wish for the devil they know well (Pakistan) that all the little devils they don’t.
We must remember too that there were powerful outside forces that wished the break-up of Yugoslavia and did much to facilitate it. As a one-time cheerleader for such a break-up, it wasn’t until I read Dr. Tifkovic writings at Chronciles and other sources that I realized the error of my ways. Let us not go down the same path for the consequences may very well be catastrophic.
What I feel is needed is a “containment” policy for Pakistan, i.e. and intense intelligence effort to monitor Pakistani jihadists and Al Qaedea terrorists in Pakistan so that they cannot carry out their plans along with private mercinary efforts (Ron Paul’s Letters of Marque and Reprisal, which has a strategic value in this situation along with being Constitutional) to kill terrorist leaders. In other words, keep the lid on the pot within Pakistan and the subcontinent, take the Taliban away from them as an ally so they have no foothold in Afghanistan and watch them grow old together hiding in caves and little villages until they give up the struggle out of sheer boredom.
31 Comment by gargi on 11 December 2008:
Also it is true that the Muslims in India have fallen behind as compared to other groups. But when a group falls behind, it is not just because they are being “denied their place in the sun” by HIndus as a recent article by Mr. Buchanan in the chronicles claimed.
What are Muslim leaders teaching to their people? What is taking place inside of mosques? What have the Muslim elites done to help their people? Does the Muslim minority take any steps to assimilate into the majority? It would help if India could establish a uniform civil code for everyone–but Rajiv Gandhi scrapped this to please Muslim clerics. India needs a strong central government to improve growth. The problem is that usually the parties come into power with coalitions. The Congress came into power backed by the leftist parties so whenever Congress tries to do anything constructive the leftist parties block it in Parliament. Mr. Singh is commands respect but he has very little power in his party. Now they have further divided the country along ethnic lines by instituting quotas for select groups in institutions of higher education. This idea of focusing on only elite institutions instead of mass education was started by Nehru and unfortunately has not changed. The BJP also has its faults but it did initiate a number of reforms; it was capable of thinking strategically unlike Congress and was building roads and had projects such as linking all the rivers…but all these prjojects came to an end when it foolishly lost power after four years on account of its own smugness. A strong central government without coalition partners which can stay in power for at least 8 years is what is needed to institute major reforms in India. It is not that intelligent people are lacking. The government has failed the people and the people have elected what it deserves for its stupidity.
Regardless it is surprising that India is still in tact somehow despite being in such a neighborhood.
32 Comment by Alex on 11 December 2008:
Dr. Trifkovic, would be interested on your take of the riots in Greece, your frame of reference on the events in my country would be most welcome.
33 Comment by gargi on 11 December 2008:
@george
If as you say Britain turns a blind eye to Saudi Arabia is it not because the Britain’s economy is dependent on its well developed financial institutions and Arabs invest a lot of their oil money in their banks? I used to work with some people from Britain. You should see the respect they accorded to the Sheiks on account of their $$$.
34 Comment by george on 11 December 2008:
Actually I don’t think it is in India’s best interest to go to war with Pakistan for a number of reasons.
a) It would embolden the rival groups to work together to fight India. It would be wiser to let Pakistan collapse under its own weight.
b) A war with Pakistani would have disastrous implications on the India economy in the mid of a global economic crisis and would have to divert funding for civilian infrastructure projects like nuclear power plants. Pakistan does not have to bother with this issue as the country seems to be in the toilet anyway economic and social.
c) What would be the main objective if India were to defeat Pakistan it would probably have to occupy it which is a near impossible task.
d) India would have to deal not only with Pakistani militants but probably Bangladeshi ones as well as a percentage of the Muslims in India itself. Pakistani intelligence probably has linked Mao Marxists militants with Islamic militant groups as well.
@29gargi
If your interest a good book is Wolves of Islam by Paul Murphy about Chechen terrorism.
In it, it describes the huge role he ISI had in training and arming Chechen militants they even tried Shamil Basayeav.
During the first war there were a number of countries actively aiding the Chechens so it was obviously pre-planned the major ones being Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Bosnia, Turkey and Jordan.
Actually it’s not in the book but I now know for sure it was pre-planned as they received training in military camps in Turkey and trained in the Bosnian leaders international training camps in Bosnia linking them up with Algerian groups in 92.
In fact the ISI role in the first war was so extensive some suggested they were even coordinating and running the war.
Tactics described in the book might be applicable to how Pakistani might wage war against India seeing how in large part they were trained in camps run by Pakistani intelligence financed by the Saudi’s.
35 Comment by gargi on 11 December 2008:
@george
You have a great deal of understanding for a person who does not hail from the region. Pakistan has been a sick place since 1965. India should just seal the border and leave it alone. I would not be surprised that all the bomb blasts in India for which some unknown “Mujaheeden” groups claim responsibility are all coming from a common source. The Bombay blasts affected elites so the government was forced to investigate properly this time. You are right in that the Mao Marxist miltants are also somehow connected to the Islamic militants.
36 Comment by george on 11 December 2008:
@35gargi
I don’t fully understand the history of India, I haven’t researched the history like I have the Balkans in the 90’s and Russia but I can imagine the British have something to do with the make up of India judging by other regions of its empire.
In Afghanistan and Africa they would form opposing regions together so they could not unite and overthrough British rule a divide and conquer strategy.
I think this is behind mass immigration to countries as well.
I would not be suprised if they did the same in India puting in place seniour Muslims in promonant positions to weaken Hindu nationalism.
Lyndon LaRouche has some good background on British terrorism and the Mumbai attack.
http://www.larouchepac.com/news
You need to sort through the news headlines.
Mentions British-linked south Asian narcotics kingpin Dawood Ibrahim and his role in the attack.
37 Comment by gargi on 11 December 2008:
@george
Regarding Indian history, the books written before 1950 are usually reliable. All the new history is “revisionist” history by Marxist historians which Indians generally read. Also toxic is the rewriting of history of the “Hindutva” groups who distort history to fit their political agenda–. The Great British historian Arnold Toynbee as well as well as the American Will Durant also understood India. People unfortunately do not read history in a large way like this anymore.
I think the British never quite understood the culture there, as they are a more of a nation of traders and were there to exploit to the maximum. However, they created Indian nationalism and all the small kingdoms united after they came and the British gave many good things to India….the German Orientalists are so much deeper in their understanding of India due to the philosophical bent of those peoples and Russians also have a good understanding. In fact, there was a textbook used in the Soviet era–I cannot remember the name–it was by a woman–it contains far greater truths than a textbook currently used by students in India.
Regarding Chechnya, I think Tolstoy’s Cossacks has something about them…However there is a difference between Kashmiri Pandits…and the Russians in Chechnya. These people have never ceased to stop living in Kashmir until recently and have a continuous history of more than 3000 years there; it was Islam which came in from the outside there.
38 Comment by george on 11 December 2008:
@37gargi
True but there was never an independent state of Chechnya and most of what is now Chechnya was given to them by the idiot Khrushchev.
I’m not 100% sure but it might have even been created when Russia conquered the Khazar Empire.
I would bet there is no historical record that there was a Chechen state before Russia entered the region and despite the recent propaganda entered the region because the Ottoman Empire was trying to make an incursion there arming militants.
I see your point though that the Kashmiri Pandits have always been native to the region.
39 Comment by gargi on 13 December 2008:
@george
“I’ve noticed that pattern in Kosovo, Chechnya and Kashmir militant groups create instability causing government intervention then when they seize control they kick out the local inhabitants and use that as a type of parasite state to further destabilise the host country as a whole financed and supported by foreign front Islamic charities, organised crime and a fascist theological bases a mix of extreme nationalism and wahabaism.”
You’ve hit the nail on the spot. This is exactly how Isalm works. Hindus have been dealing with it for centuries–no one heard us– but now Europeans are also beginning to be affected by aggressive Isalm. After the Crusades, there was no threat to Europe until recently–; oil money has caused them to become very belligerant and spread their religion everywhere…
In Kashmir, they are not even bothered to take down the Hindu structures…just build mosques on top and usurp the building for youself as the following pictures show…All over India you can see mosques built right over temples without even bothering to dismantle the origianl temple structure. But the following usurping of Hindus’ property is very recent..
http://www.iakf.org/photo/thumbnails.php?album=8
Well the Pandits have survived Isalm for the last 600 years, they are not going to die out so easily….
40 Comment by george on 13 December 2008:
@39gargi
I remember a Hindu mob tearing down an ancient Mosque built over an ancient Temple in the early 90’s.
Was this before or after scores of Hindus were killed in a train fire by Muslims?
How many Kashmiri pundits were ethnically cleansed from Kashmir?
I’ve heard the Pakistani area of Kashmir is ruled by the Taliban or Taliban inspired Islamic party.
Whats the Muslim birth rate in India compared to other groups Hindus, Christians, etc.
Also another possible weak point in an Indian offensive is how much food it produces.
Is it like Russia and China where it imports a majority of it’s food?
I know it has a large population over a billion people.
41 Pingback by Pakistania Delenda… on 13 December 2008:
[...] Pakistania Delenda by Srdja Trifkovic http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=816#more-816 [...]
42 Comment by Trifkovic on 13 December 2008:
#39 gargi: “After the Crusades, there was no threat to Europe until recently”
except for Kosovo (1389), Varna (1444), Constantinople (1453), Belgrade (1456), Mohacs (1526), Vienna (1529), Malta (1565), Lepanto (1571), Vienna (1683), etc, etc, etc…
43 Comment by gargi on 13 December 2008:
@george
The agricultural production capacity of India is second only to the USA–it can feed the world. However, India can barely feed itself because there has been no agricultural revolution.
All the terrorism into Kashmir comes in from the Muzzafarabad region in Pakistan controlled Kashmir. This area is very backward and Pakistan has done nothing to develop it unlike the Indian controlled Kashmir which receives huge amounts government subsidies.
India is very diverse and not composed of a single ethnic group.
The population has swelled from bout 350,000,000 to over a billion since 1940’s. It is going to be hard to adopt a 2 child policy when Muslims can have more than 1 wife still by law. India is urgently in need of a uniform civil code. Hindus are angry becasue the secularism practised by the government there is not really secular.
44 Comment by george on 13 December 2008:
@42gargi
In the news here in Britain there were reports of Indian farmers committing suicide due to being in debt.
What was the number of Kashmiri pundits ethnically cleansed from Kashmir?
This was never covered in any recounting of Kashmiri history in British media TV and print.
45 Comment by gargi on 13 December 2008:
@george
The Kashmiri Pandits are really, really old people from the Vedic heartland–they had the highest literacy rate in India (100%) and even after 400,000 were expelled from Kashmir and had to live in refugee camps, many have come out of the camps since 89 and are leading productive lives in the modern world.. No one helped them, they helped themselves…However, those among them who relied on land for income and did not have professional skills were those hit hardest and some still remain in camps. Perhaps because they are a gentle community involved in educational and philosophical pursuits–most were teachers in Kashmir– they do no make much noise and are not heard. ..But there are some people like this French journalist who has spoken out for them…
http://refugees-in-their-own-country.blogspot.com/
Now the problem is that everyone is scattered after having to leave Kashmir…
The suicide of the farmer is terrible. Farmers are really innocent so their suicide just strikes one to the core…There was one farmer who committed suicide and his poems were published and I will never forget one line of his which roughly translates as “We cultivate pearls/Our children go hungry… The Congress government has done nothing except give loan waivers to them which does not help much and is just cosmetic without addressing the real problem…India needs a strong government at the center without coalition partners which can enact strong reforms…nothing short of a benign dictator…Democracy does not work when you have many illiterate people electing a government such as the current utterly corrupt Congress government…The Western media, however, loves this government….
46 Comment by george on 14 December 2008:
@44gargi
400,000 that’s double that of the Serbs cleansed from Croatia in Operation Desert Storm and that was considered the biggest mass ethnic cleansing since WW2.
Good website.
I think the US or the CIA is partly responsible for what happened in Kashmir.
After the Afghan war Pakistan diverted $1 billion dollars to Kashmiri militants and the CIA knew about this and let it happen.
47 Comment by gargi on 14 December 2008:
What I think will really stop Islamic fundamentalism is when the source of its funding everywhere is stopped. America needs to bring smart people from around the world to develop alternative sources of energy, it will save the environment and stop radical Islam. It has to be pursued seriously, with the seriousness with which the Manhattan project was accomplished. Even now many oil dictatorships are having trouble balancing their budgets because the price of oil has fallen. Now when the world no longer needs their oil, they will have to confront modernity and modernize or perish. It is not with violence but with human ingenuity that this problem can be extinguished. Artificial economies built on petrol will collapse and will be forced to modernize just as India was forced to abandon Nehruvian socialism when it nearly went bankrupt a while back…
48 Comment by george on 14 December 2008:
@46gargi
But a lot of recruiting and funding to terrorists groups and organisations come from Mosques in European capitals and Universities financed by organised crime and fund raising events/charities.
The Algerians for example finance militant activity with credit card fraud.
49 Comment by gargi on 14 December 2008:
Interesting article on India’s Hindu hating media by Francois Gautier…
http://francoisgautier.wordpress.com/2008/10/12/a-french-journalists-view-on-india-and-its-media/
50 Comment by gargi on 15 December 2008:
@george
“But a lot of recruiting and funding to terrorists groups and organisations come from Mosques in European capitals and Universities financed by organised crime and fund raising events/charities.
The Algerians for example finance militant activity with credit card fraud.”
But what if kingdoms like Saudi begin to face problems when the world no longer needs their oil? Without oil, I think most Islamic countries would no longer be significant players at all …The future clearly belongs to those who can adapt and survive in a changing world–this applies to both East and West….But irreversible damage has already been done in places like Kashmir….
51 Comment by gargi on 16 December 2008:
Good article about how a good dose of nationalism and patriotism can fight terrorism:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/01/opinion/01kristol.html?_r=1&emc=eta1
52 Comment by Pete on 16 December 2008:
The population of Russia is much smaller, about 150 million and constantly declining. That’s why some analysts predict the country will be partitioned by its neighbours, chiefly China, due to its low population density.