Ridley, R.T., “To Be Taken with a Pinch of Salt: The Destruction of Carthage,” Classical Philology vol. 81, no. 2 (1986), 140-46.

A Legend of the Destruction of Carthage
Susan T. Stevens
Classical Philology, Vol. 83, No. 1 (Jan., 1988), pp. 39-41.

Passing the Salt: On the Destruction of Carthage Again
Paolo Visona
Classical Philology, Vol. 83, No. 1 (Jan., 1988), pp. 41-42.

The Destruction of Carthage: A Retractatio
B. H. Warmington
Classical Philology, Vol. 83, No. 4 (Oct., 1988), pp. 308-310.

Ad Maronis mausolæum
Ductus fudit super eam
Piæ rorem lacrimæ;
Quem te, inquit, redidissem
Si te vivum invenissem,
Poetarum maxime!

Like the three wise men from the east, who saw Christ’s star in the east and came to worship him (Matt. ii), Vergil was regarded as a virtuous pagan having supernatural insight. Vulgar superstition attributed magical powers to him, and Dante famously placed him in the first circle, the limbo of the just, conveniently enabling the great poet to be his guide through the Inferno and the Purgatorio.

It is almost beside the point whether this interpretation of the fourth eclogue is true; what is important is that it was devoutly believed to be for many centuries. It both illustrates the respect of early Christians for ‘romanitas,’ and also their belief that the Church was intended to include the gentiles – that Christ’s purpose was, as the old song has it, “to save us ALL from Satan’s pow’r/when we had gone astray” – rather than to be merely an improved or reformed form of Judaism.

I would rather state it this way — and I may not be in disagreement with Dr. Fleming — that the Christ of Matthew, the Christ of Mark, the Christ of Luke-Acts, the Christ of Galatians, the Christ of Romans — are all the same Christ, seen from different perspectives by writers addressing different historical situations. All these perspectives are true. So also was the view of faith and works: The view of Mt 10:42, of Paul, and of James are all different perspectives, and perspectives that can be harmonized, as so did the Council of Trent, 6th session.

I certainly agree that we must avoid a “canon within the canon”.

Not a substitute for systematic study, I realize, but still much appreciated.

I have a special spot in my heart for the Aeneid — partly because I first read it while stationed in Naples, Italy, and because somehow the hero-fleeing-a-dead-civilization-to-found-another resonates a bit more for me than the plot of Odysseus, even if Homer is the more elaborate and greater imagist.

T.S. Eliot wrote an interesting bit on the Aeneid, in which he argues that family lineage, for the better sort of pagans, was a sort of mirror-image of eternity, the nearest they could come to salvation or something like that.

“Important to remember that Vergil was always a serious student of philosophy and intended to give up poetry to devote himself to loftier studies.”

This is particularly interesting; naturally as you point out his trip to the land of the Dead recalls not only the Odyssey but also the myth of Er. I would be curious to nose into other aspects of the poem to find out other philosophical references embodied in narrative.

Obviously a big debate among some of the readers of these pages is whether empire is a priori evil. Quite a few would say yes, I expect.

I’ve been inclined to reserve judgment– certainly I have no big beef with the Byzantines or the Habsburgs– except to maybe wonder whether some peoples are better suited to empire than others.

That is, being too attached to one system of government (whether monarchy, democracy, aristocracy, empire, small republic, etc. etc.) as a one-size-fits-all ideal seems to me to be a manifestation of the universalist mania. It seems to me should reserve the bulk of our love for the place and the people, not the system they operate in.

A nation without strong and old roots, maybe, should stick to being a republic.

Those who tout Pax Americana — attempting to compare America to Rome– are obviously doing a disservice to the Romans, when in fact as we continue down the road of hegemony it strikes me that we come to resemble the worst stereotype of Carthage.

“texts against tradition” — i.e., deconstructionism.

Oh, and this post from a while back–

“the difference Scipio made to our world is that now European children can play with inanimate dolls, because the Romans won, but if the Carthaginians had won, we would be sacrificing our live children to an inanimate doll.”

– for some reason struck me with another, tangential thought which may or may not be worth sharing — hopefully it is.

Maybe one metaphorical way of understanding the New Age / Wiccan / Neopagan phenomenon is as a sort of arrested development and/or a perverse second childhood?

That is, as a cultural parallel to a grown man playing with cap-guns and action-figures and toy-soldiers?

That is, like toys, pagan idols were good preparation for real life — but if clung to (or reverted to) once maturity arrives, they become both pathetic and dangerous to sanity/soul.

Jesus’ own followers did not always understand Him. After all, He spoke in parallels and was often addressing himself to specific people on specific occasions that cannot necessarily be universalized. Along side of pronouncements of peace and nonviolence, we have such statements that He came not to bring peace but a sword; his admonition to the disciples that once he was gone they would have to take care of themselves and buy weapons; his reponse to the disciple who showed him a sword, not that he should give it awa but only the (possibly ironic) statement that it was enough. Any one statement taken out of context and made universal can be twisted by heretics into a creed of communism or nonviolence. Read in context of the epistles and also of the tradition, we are prevented from falling into error and into the solipsism that tells us we individully have the right to pass judgment on these difficult questions.

“I know enough to handle the texts and to be somewhat discriminating in my choice of modern scholars”

Dr. Fleming,

For a beginner, are Mommsen and J.B. Bury worth reading?