Just Asking Some More
Does it matter whether Obama is a Muslim or not? Would it make any difference? Is there any evidence that he has any religion at all? (Of course, that can be said about most major American politicians, whose only real faith is the religion of ME.)
George W. Bush is known to many as “a good Christian man.” What Christian behaviour did he exhibit as President?
Does everyone in the world long to be an American? (Not to have what Americans have, but to be like an American?)
Wouldn’t it be much better if skilled people from the Third World did something for their own countries rather than emigrate to the West for more money? Where will they emigrate to after they help the West fall apart?
Do you look forward to the time when the U.S. is a majority nonwhite country? (Tell the truth now.)
To what extent do immigrants from bad societies bring the defects of those societies with them to their new homes?
In the 19th century the British Empire, the superpower of the time, invaded Afghanistan. What happened?
In the 20th century the Soviet Union, the greatest military power in Eurasia, invaded Afghanistan. What happened?
In the 21st century the United States, the superpower of the time, invaded Afghanistan. What . . . (never mind).
What would George Washington or Thomas Jefferson think if they looked at the American civilisation displayed on television today?
What would the men who died on the Normandy beaches, at Iwo Jima, or in the Bulge, think if they could return and see the U.S. today? How badly would they regret their sacrifice?
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George Washington and Thomas Jefferson would conclude that they are better off as citizens of Old Dominion rather than of the U.S. My late father flew point during the Iwo Jima and Okinawa battles, late in his life he concluded he had wasted his time in WWII.
The old man who taught me poetry in college had flown fighters in WWII and had followed R. Frost around on the Madison Wisconsin. I can't say in public what he said about yesterday, let alon today.
But this is what he said about poetry and the modern University.
"The scope of poetry is as broad as the comprehension of humanity which one sees, for example, in Chaucer’s pilgrims: saints and sinners, foolish and wise, destroyers and preservers, knights and knaves, queens and quenes, however apparently disparate, bound together in adventure toward a common destiny. Poetry is a lovely and exciting invitation and it cannot be treated otherwise. Cummings called it a promise of miracles, tints everywhere childrening, beautiful answers which ask the more beautiful question. We are asked to come hither, perhaps to go along with Frost down to clean the pasture spring; we shan’t be gone long and we really cannot refuse for perhaps we shall hear his long scythe whispering to the ground or the Highland lass singing. We are asked to be docile and ready to recognize Hopkins’ chevalier and Chaucer’s Knight, to progress with burdened Aeneas or Bunyan’s sad pilgrim, to hear courageous Shelley’s blithe spirit or contumacious Hardy’s sentient thrush; we are commanded to be compassionate and rejoice for Lycidas and Adonais for they are not dead. Poetry is that way of becoming aware by apprehension at least of what Tennyson’s Ulysses sought beyond the limits of human thought, or what Keats found through the magic casements opening wide, what poor senile Lear saw in the naked beggar, or even what Swift recognized in a woman flayed alive.
It is as possible for poetry and the poetic order of knowledge to be lost as, say, culture or religion; it is certainly, by all accounts, later than we think. To paraphrase Nietzsche: Poetry is dead and the uneducated specialists have killed it by making it extraordinary, uncommon and, in their own image, eccentric."
I think it is safe to say that today,culturally speaking,
most of us are wallering somewhere around: "it's the economy, stupid!", for our poetic insight.
There was a break in the natural evolution of American society and thought, sometime after WWI. Precisely when, no one can tell, but certainly by WWII, the break with the land of the Puritans, the Founders, and the Southern Rebels occurred.
Yes these precursors I mention had their differences. But their differences were minor compared with the instant gratification, classical-ignorant society of today. Diversity is not exactly what John Winthrop, John Adams or Stonewall Jackson risked their lives for.
Today's youth, even those who sense something is wrong with the hyperspeed materialism pushed by the advocates of Consumer Spending as the basic purpose of the Universe, have little if any knowledge of these precedents.
Ironically, the liberty established by our ancestors enabled the devotees of Wealth and Gadgets to prevail, as values were lost in the Electronic Noise.
As Jesus said on the Cross:"It is Finished."
Let us hope there is a World to Come. For this World is Finished.
And perhaps that is what must be.
"What would the men who died on the Normandy beaches, at Iwo Jima, or in the Bulge, think if they could return and see the U.S. today? How badly would they regret their sacrifice?"
RESPONSE:
Without a doubt, my WWII gramps would take a puff of his cigarette, hold it, then say (as he exhaled): “Jesus, Joseph, and Mary! What the hell are you people thinking?” Then, he’d tell me to make him a high-ball and turn his Glen Miller record.
Regret it? No way. I can honestly say he’d do it all over again because that was the man he was. He had an intense love for his country, a compelling sense of duty, and resolute belief in God and divine intervention. The "safest," most "at home" feeling I ever knew. [RIP]
I always imagine George Washington saying "Sorry guys, it seemed like a good idea at the time."
"What would the men who died on the Normandy beaches, at Iwo Jima, or in the Bulge, think if they could return and see the U.S. today? How badly would they regret their sacrifice?"
Their generation helped us get right where we are, you really don't think all those baby-boomers just invented the sexual revolution out of a vacuum?
My father is still alive at 86; he was a Sergeant in the 82nd Airborne and helped liberate Ste.-Mere-Eglise. He proceeded to spend another 20 years in the military -- before going to medical school.
Earlier today he told me that nothing saddens him more than to think of what has happened to the country for which he fought and for which his friends died.
Do you look forward to the time when the U.S. is a majority nonwhite country? (Tell the truth now.)
No. Somehow this demonstrates that I am filled with "hate".
"Does everyone in the world long to be an American?" No. They just want to go wherever they can turn a buck. Latinos here in Charlotte don't even attempt to learn English. Why bother? They live in Little (but growing) Latin America.
"What would the men who died on the Normandy beaches, at Iwo Jima, or in the Bulge, think if they could return and see the U.S. today?" I know what my father, who fought in the Battle of Okinawa, feels about it -- total disgust. He quit flying the US flag years ago because, in his words, it doesn't stand for what it used to stand for.
#7. Does anyone really know what it stands for? What we're told it stands for doesn't make any sense.
#7. Does anyone really know what it stands for? What we’re told it stands for doesn’t make any sense.
"The Republic for which it stands:
One Nation, Under God, indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all?"
"What would the men who died on the Normandy beaches, at Iwo Jima, or in the Bulge, think if they could return and see the U.S. today? How badly would they regret their sacrifice?"
At least they died doing it at least for something salvageable. America still had its best years ahead of the 1940s.
The people who died in Iraq and Afghanistan - they died for absolutely nothing. Nothing, and it breaks any creature's heart just thinking about it. Knowing that their deaths were far more unnecessary and wasteful is not disrespecting the North American and European servicemen in those two countries; it's simply acknowledging a reality.
#9. Robert, do you really believe it stands for the words of a utopian socialist, Francis Bellamy? I think it's more probable the twisted, perverted, dream world of the idealist crashed with that of the real world and we live in the resultant wreckage.
The original words. "To the Republic, One nation, Indivisible,with Liberty and Justice for all". Dr. Murray Rothbard was correct when stated the United States and Soviet Union are two sides of the same coin. All hopes for the Republic died at Appomattox.
#10 and #11 MAP and Bryan
Easy fellows, I quoted the pledge and placed a question mark at the end of the quote so the discussion might continue. Besides, what I think or don't think is not important to the question raised:"Does anyone really know what it stands for?" Sometimes the public recital of national rituals and songs, such as the National Anthem or Pledge of Allegiance, become something more or less than the words which symbolize that something beyond the words.
George Washington would say, " I should have listened to Jefferson more and Hamilton much less." The USA today is run by Capital (bankers and global oligopolies) at the expense of the people.
Patrick, although George Washington was unwise to favor Alexander Hamilton's economic centralization schemes, Hamilton was usually wiser than Thomas Jefferson when it came to foreign policy. The childish reverence that Jefferson, James Madison and James Monroe had for the revolutionary regime in France is not only mindboggling, it is actually a bit frightening.
Dr. Wilson, Did Washington favor Hamiltonianism?
Just as an aside, anyone care to analyse just what a pack of lies the pledge really is?
'The Republic' (long dead, murdered in 1860's)
'for which it stands:' (it stands for empire)
'One Nation,' (really a confederation perverted into empire)
'Under God,' (what a joke!)
'indivisible,' (that's what you think; secession, balkanisation)
'With Liberty' (where? dont drive sans seat belt; pay your income taxes)
'and Justice' (Waco, Ruby Ridge, Sherman, IRS, SCOTUS)
'for all' (for all bigwigs and foreigners, not for us)
We could all come up with similar answers to this ridiculous pledge.
I am sure Swiss cantonisation and seceding New York is always on the table.
Mr Sanjay:
I would prefer cantonisation, but it's probably impractical here. Cantonisation is based on a situation where people with different ethnic and denominational backgrounds live in distinct territories, thus, they are secure enough in themselves that they can confederate together on a basis of mutual respect, and interact while at the same time remaining distinct and more or less separate socially and culturally. Such a thing couldn't be done in a polyglot empire where even the Anglo-Protestants, descendants of the founders, got along so badly that they fought the third most destructive war in history. Add to this all the nutty pseudo-religious groups, Puritan arrogance, the moral perversity, enforced social integration, intentional destruction of cultural traditions, polyglot immigration, the dangerous importation of Islam, and it's impossible.
What a great city New York once was, and now look at it. I fear that one day it will explode in ethnic and religious conflict.
No knowledgeable American patriot can recite the Pledge. Americans properly pledge to uphold the Constitution, not obedience to the government or its symbols. But it is as Mr. Allen Wilson says in #16.
George W. Bush, and his neocon coterie, were dhimmis who thought they could use Islam as a weapon against everyone they disliked, including what they considered to be the American hoi polloi. They inflicted irreparable damage on the American people. But Obama is worse. He is an outright quisling.
Don't try to tell me Obama is not a Muslim!
Regarding Dr. Wilson's fifth question regarding America becoming a majority-minority "nation", I am confidently sure that a large majority of the Tea Party, not to say Republicans or "Conservatives of the Heart", oppose Barack Obama and Open Borders Immigration because they do not support the ethnic revolution in the United States of America(sic). However, almost all of these people would be too cowardly to express these fears in public and most would not have the temerity to disclose their fears even to a pollster.