
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Greek Diary IIComments on: --</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2010/02/02/greek-diary-ii/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2010/02/02/greek-diary-ii/</link>
	<description>Your home for traditional conservatism.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Sep 2010 06:08:45 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Thomas Fleming</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2010/02/02/greek-diary-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-197440</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Fleming</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 16:45:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=3703#comment-197440</guid>
		<description>The volumes I have seen did not strike me as very helpful.  They reflect the American obsession with quick fixes.  Don&#039;t know anything about music?  Just buy the collections--Great Love Themes, Symphonic Music&#039;s Greatest Hits.  Don&#039;t know much about history?  Read the Durants.  Don&#039;t know Latin, theology, church history, or economics, why then get a degree in American history from the University of Oz and set your self up as the world&#039;s foremost authority.  I know it sounds depressing, but there are no shortcuts, no magic reading list.  You have to start from the beginning and read a lot of things for the pleasure of it--Homer and Herodotus, for example--before going on to read any secondary stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The volumes I have seen did not strike me as very helpful.  They reflect the American obsession with quick fixes.  Don&#8217;t know anything about music?  Just buy the collections&#8211;Great Love Themes, Symphonic Music&#8217;s Greatest Hits.  Don&#8217;t know much about history?  Read the Durants.  Don&#8217;t know Latin, theology, church history, or economics, why then get a degree in American history from the University of Oz and set your self up as the world&#8217;s foremost authority.  I know it sounds depressing, but there are no shortcuts, no magic reading list.  You have to start from the beginning and read a lot of things for the pleasure of it&#8211;Homer and Herodotus, for example&#8211;before going on to read any secondary stuff.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andrew G Van Sant</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2010/02/02/greek-diary-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-197426</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew G Van Sant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 01:46:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=3703#comment-197426</guid>
		<description>Dr. Fleming, I recall reading a comment that you made indicating that you were not impressed by ISI&#039;s &quot;A Student&#039;s Guide to Classics.&quot;  I believe you said the author was not up to the task of writing a useful guide.  Perhaps I&#039;m not remembering correctly, which would not surprise me at all.  Do you have any opinion(s) on the range of ISI&#039;s Student Guides?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Fleming, I recall reading a comment that you made indicating that you were not impressed by ISI&#8217;s &#8220;A Student&#8217;s Guide to Classics.&#8221;  I believe you said the author was not up to the task of writing a useful guide.  Perhaps I&#8217;m not remembering correctly, which would not surprise me at all.  Do you have any opinion(s) on the range of ISI&#8217;s Student Guides?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tjf</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2010/02/02/greek-diary-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-197395</link>
		<dc:creator>Tjf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:46:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=3703#comment-197395</guid>
		<description>19th c orators studied Latin, rhetoric, and the ancient orators, especially Demosthenes and Cicero.  There is no great secret about what constitutes humane learning.  It is the classical curriculum. My course tries to provide historical background and a context of interpretation for ancient literature.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>19th c orators studied Latin, rhetoric, and the ancient orators, especially Demosthenes and Cicero.  There is no great secret about what constitutes humane learning.  It is the classical curriculum. My course tries to provide historical background and a context of interpretation for ancient literature.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Michael Ezzo</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2010/02/02/greek-diary-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-197391</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Ezzo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 03:31:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=3703#comment-197391</guid>
		<description>I think I am on my third reading of the book; I will probably read it at least three more times because it reveals more and more with each subsequent reading. What I particularly enjoy is the way he turns the table around, and frames the argument in terms whereby the liberals are seen as a tradition, and the ancients are the alternative to that.

I would like to ask here about Dr. Fleming&#039;s correspondence course in the ancient literature. Is the course predicated upon the knowledge of the recommendations given in response #19? Or does it function as a companion work, to be studied simultaneous to the literature, in order to guide one through it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I am on my third reading of the book; I will probably read it at least three more times because it reveals more and more with each subsequent reading. What I particularly enjoy is the way he turns the table around, and frames the argument in terms whereby the liberals are seen as a tradition, and the ancients are the alternative to that.</p>
<p>I would like to ask here about Dr. Fleming&#8217;s correspondence course in the ancient literature. Is the course predicated upon the knowledge of the recommendations given in response #19? Or does it function as a companion work, to be studied simultaneous to the literature, in order to guide one through it?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Daria</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2010/02/02/greek-diary-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-197388</link>
		<dc:creator>Daria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 02:21:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=3703#comment-197388</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll find Morality of Everyday Life and reread my highlights. Thanks.

Favorite quotation in it, from memory, goes something like:

If you demand and enforce that I love someone else&#039;s children more than my own, simply because they don&#039;t look like my children, makes you a tyrant and me a slave.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll find Morality of Everyday Life and reread my highlights. Thanks.</p>
<p>Favorite quotation in it, from memory, goes something like:</p>
<p>If you demand and enforce that I love someone else&#8217;s children more than my own, simply because they don&#8217;t look like my children, makes you a tyrant and me a slave.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Edward</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2010/02/02/greek-diary-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-197275</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:11:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=3703#comment-197275</guid>
		<description>I began with Plato, and although I do not know Greek or Latin, most of my study now is comprised of Aristotle and St. Thomas Aquinas. Perhaps I am approaching this with a more philosophical bent, but most college philosophy focuses on the modern tradition. Thus most of my interest is in the errors of the modern philosophers (from Descartes to Marx) and the truth that the alternative ancient and medieval traditions provide.

Dr. Fleming&#039;s Morality of Everyday Life is indispensable in giving an ancient perspective on the ethics of modern liberalism.

Other books that do for metaphysics what Dr. Fleming did for ethics is Edward Feser&#039;s The Last Superstition and also his book on Aquinas. These books give an ancient and medieval perspective on the early modern philosophers (Descartes, Locke, Hume, etc.) who were extremely influential in constructing what we now call liberalism, broadly speaking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I began with Plato, and although I do not know Greek or Latin, most of my study now is comprised of Aristotle and St. Thomas Aquinas. Perhaps I am approaching this with a more philosophical bent, but most college philosophy focuses on the modern tradition. Thus most of my interest is in the errors of the modern philosophers (from Descartes to Marx) and the truth that the alternative ancient and medieval traditions provide.</p>
<p>Dr. Fleming&#8217;s Morality of Everyday Life is indispensable in giving an ancient perspective on the ethics of modern liberalism.</p>
<p>Other books that do for metaphysics what Dr. Fleming did for ethics is Edward Feser&#8217;s The Last Superstition and also his book on Aquinas. These books give an ancient and medieval perspective on the early modern philosophers (Descartes, Locke, Hume, etc.) who were extremely influential in constructing what we now call liberalism, broadly speaking.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: robert</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2010/02/02/greek-diary-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-197273</link>
		<dc:creator>robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:24:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=3703#comment-197273</guid>
		<description>&quot;Is there a favorite passage from antiquity that summarizes all we hold dear?&quot;

My favorite is &quot;this life is a vail of tears.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Is there a favorite passage from antiquity that summarizes all we hold dear?&#8221;</p>
<p>My favorite is &#8220;this life is a vail of tears.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Thomas Fleming</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2010/02/02/greek-diary-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-197272</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Fleming</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:47:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=3703#comment-197272</guid>
		<description>PS Stay away from Hegel until you are steeped in the ancient tradition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS Stay away from Hegel until you are steeped in the ancient tradition.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Thomas Fleming</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2010/02/02/greek-diary-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-197271</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Fleming</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:47:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=3703#comment-197271</guid>
		<description>To answer Daria&#039;s important questions properly would require more time than I have, not just today or this week but probably for the rest of my life.  On the philosophical questions, my only answer is that I have written several books and hundreds of essays taking them up, and I would be quite foolish to attempt to summarize my views here. I can only echo the suggestion that you buy The Morality of Everyday Life, which is aimed at refuting the ethical and political style of thought introduced in the Renaissance, developed in the Enlightenment, and brought to a revolutionary fervor in Rousseau and Marx.  Neither Burke nor Weaver, admirable as they are, will avail to steer us in the right direction unless we have read the books that shaped their often correct conclusions.

I think one has to be clear: Is your intention to defend a South that no longer really exists or to clear your own mind of the lying rubbish that is at the heart of all liberalisms, both the Marxist type and the libertarian type?  The former project requires an ideology--one more dishonest attempt to maintain or acquire power--while the latter requires a great deal of systematic study.  

In asking for suggestions on what to read, you should also be clear.  Are you looking for a serious philosophical program or a course of study for ordinary intelligent people?  If the latter, then you may begin today by setting aside all your Southern books for several years and devote yourself to studying the literary and intellectual tradition that formed the South.  My recommendation is that you begin with two projects:  1) Learn Latin and 2) begin reading good translations of the best Greek literature:  Homer, Hesiod, the tragedies, and Plato&#039;s early dialogues as preparation for studying the indispensable philosopher, Aristotle.  Without a firm grasp of Aristotle and Cicero, there is hardly any point in reading Burke, much less Weaver.  We Americans are provincial colonials in a great and comprehensive tradition.  We cannot &quot;remember who we are&quot; if we forget who we have been.  

Some years ago, I spent some time trying to develop a classical curriculum and stimulating discussion of the classics, but for lack of time and resources I have slowly given this project up.  If some kind rich person would give us enough money to hire a classically trained  assistant for two years, we could accomplish a great deal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To answer Daria&#8217;s important questions properly would require more time than I have, not just today or this week but probably for the rest of my life.  On the philosophical questions, my only answer is that I have written several books and hundreds of essays taking them up, and I would be quite foolish to attempt to summarize my views here. I can only echo the suggestion that you buy The Morality of Everyday Life, which is aimed at refuting the ethical and political style of thought introduced in the Renaissance, developed in the Enlightenment, and brought to a revolutionary fervor in Rousseau and Marx.  Neither Burke nor Weaver, admirable as they are, will avail to steer us in the right direction unless we have read the books that shaped their often correct conclusions.</p>
<p>I think one has to be clear: Is your intention to defend a South that no longer really exists or to clear your own mind of the lying rubbish that is at the heart of all liberalisms, both the Marxist type and the libertarian type?  The former project requires an ideology&#8211;one more dishonest attempt to maintain or acquire power&#8211;while the latter requires a great deal of systematic study.  </p>
<p>In asking for suggestions on what to read, you should also be clear.  Are you looking for a serious philosophical program or a course of study for ordinary intelligent people?  If the latter, then you may begin today by setting aside all your Southern books for several years and devote yourself to studying the literary and intellectual tradition that formed the South.  My recommendation is that you begin with two projects:  1) Learn Latin and 2) begin reading good translations of the best Greek literature:  Homer, Hesiod, the tragedies, and Plato&#8217;s early dialogues as preparation for studying the indispensable philosopher, Aristotle.  Without a firm grasp of Aristotle and Cicero, there is hardly any point in reading Burke, much less Weaver.  We Americans are provincial colonials in a great and comprehensive tradition.  We cannot &#8220;remember who we are&#8221; if we forget who we have been.  </p>
<p>Some years ago, I spent some time trying to develop a classical curriculum and stimulating discussion of the classics, but for lack of time and resources I have slowly given this project up.  If some kind rich person would give us enough money to hire a classically trained  assistant for two years, we could accomplish a great deal.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Daria</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2010/02/02/greek-diary-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-197259</link>
		<dc:creator>Daria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 01:42:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=3703#comment-197259</guid>
		<description>Not having my copy of Morality of Everyday Life handy, I can&#039;t attempt answering my questions. I hope Dr. Fleming will.

For those of us who are imbued with Va.Ky. Resolutions, Calhoun, Southern Agrarians, and Chronicles Mag., Abbeville Inst., who should be our favorite classical, medieval, etc., through to post modern philosophers and what are their works?

In other words, who best articulates philosophically for us what we enjoy and cherish contemplatively of conservatism, i.e. localism, tradition, custom, freedom of association, distrust of do-gooders, duty to family, etc.?

Was there a classical philosopher who was us, if we analogize?

Richard Weaver poses in Epilogue of Southern Trad. at Bay that the South never made the conquest of the imagination to prove that it was right.  Other than all his subsequent works, except for the conclusion of Visions of Order, are there any recognized works that attempted what he proposed in the Epilogue, for the South in general, and for its traditionalists in particular?

Has anyone successfully combined dialectal empiricism and analogy with rhetorical sermonizing to make the necessary conquest of the imagination that proves the South &quot;was right, finally&quot;?

Did we ever get our Burke or Hegel, as Weaver said we needed?

Is there any &quot;tyrannizing image&quot; to which the South can look for its imprimatur? Any recurrence to a fundamental principle that has the effect of forcefully victorious logic, and does not just imitate desperate cries of &quot;the Constitution and States Rights,&quot; which have prevented so little? 

Do we have anything that can succeed against the post modern notions that our enemies are good and we are evil, that if we don&#039;t see the evil in ourselves then we have not done enough ethical reasoning to see how our prejudices blind us to the harm done to others as we desperately try to hold on to our diminishing privileges?

Is there a favorite passage from antiquity that summarizes all we hold dear?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not having my copy of Morality of Everyday Life handy, I can&#8217;t attempt answering my questions. I hope Dr. Fleming will.</p>
<p>For those of us who are imbued with Va.Ky. Resolutions, Calhoun, Southern Agrarians, and Chronicles Mag., Abbeville Inst., who should be our favorite classical, medieval, etc., through to post modern philosophers and what are their works?</p>
<p>In other words, who best articulates philosophically for us what we enjoy and cherish contemplatively of conservatism, i.e. localism, tradition, custom, freedom of association, distrust of do-gooders, duty to family, etc.?</p>
<p>Was there a classical philosopher who was us, if we analogize?</p>
<p>Richard Weaver poses in Epilogue of Southern Trad. at Bay that the South never made the conquest of the imagination to prove that it was right.  Other than all his subsequent works, except for the conclusion of Visions of Order, are there any recognized works that attempted what he proposed in the Epilogue, for the South in general, and for its traditionalists in particular?</p>
<p>Has anyone successfully combined dialectal empiricism and analogy with rhetorical sermonizing to make the necessary conquest of the imagination that proves the South &#8220;was right, finally&#8221;?</p>
<p>Did we ever get our Burke or Hegel, as Weaver said we needed?</p>
<p>Is there any &#8220;tyrannizing image&#8221; to which the South can look for its imprimatur? Any recurrence to a fundamental principle that has the effect of forcefully victorious logic, and does not just imitate desperate cries of &#8220;the Constitution and States Rights,&#8221; which have prevented so little? </p>
<p>Do we have anything that can succeed against the post modern notions that our enemies are good and we are evil, that if we don&#8217;t see the evil in ourselves then we have not done enough ethical reasoning to see how our prejudices blind us to the harm done to others as we desperately try to hold on to our diminishing privileges?</p>
<p>Is there a favorite passage from antiquity that summarizes all we hold dear?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
