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	<title>Comments on: The Fruits of Intervention</title>
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	<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/10/30/the-fruits-of-intervention/</link>
	<description>Your home for traditional conservatism.</description>
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		<title>By: Gilbert Jacobi</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/10/30/the-fruits-of-intervention/comment-page-2/#comment-195132</link>
		<dc:creator>Gilbert Jacobi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 17:43:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=3191#comment-195132</guid>
		<description>Although I&#039;ve once again come too late to the thread, since the subject of banning a commenter has come up, I&#039;d like to be on record about it.  

I haven&#039;t heard enough yet to know if I am in complete agreement with Haller/Racer on race, but so far, so good.  His hard nosed insistence on the primacy of race, and its role in the decline of our country, without apology to the sophistries of the bio-ethnologists and anthro-apologists, is refreshing.  And anyone who can so deftly put in their place the bluenoses in charge of museums, who have betrayed the public by charging admission, by re-naming one of their flagships &quot;The Cleveland Museum of Stainless Steel&quot;, should get at least a thirty day pass.    

His political activism and nationalism merit discussion, and as for his insults and percieved arrogance, I think everyone on this site is quite capable of surviving them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although I've once again come too late to the thread, since the subject of banning a commenter has come up, I'd like to be on record about it.  </p>
<p>I haven't heard enough yet to know if I am in complete agreement with Haller/Racer on race, but so far, so good.  His hard nosed insistence on the primacy of race, and its role in the decline of our country, without apology to the sophistries of the bio-ethnologists and anthro-apologists, is refreshing.  And anyone who can so deftly put in their place the bluenoses in charge of museums, who have betrayed the public by charging admission, by re-naming one of their flagships "The Cleveland Museum of Stainless Steel", should get at least a thirty day pass.    </p>
<p>His political activism and nationalism merit discussion, and as for his insults and percieved arrogance, I think everyone on this site is quite capable of surviving them.</p>
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		<title>By: MAP</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/10/30/the-fruits-of-intervention/comment-page-2/#comment-194850</link>
		<dc:creator>MAP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 12:06:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=3191#comment-194850</guid>
		<description>Belloc in &quot;The Servile State&quot; predicted that slavery would be the ultimate equilibrium for mankind. He saw everything as leaning in that direction. Socialism he viewed as hastening the reduction to servitude. He was certainly correct that people in a capitalist society are not concerned with liberty or freedom, but only for the security of the scraps they receive from the table of the capitalist (thus socialism). PCR at Taki,s Mag states that 1% of the population of America possesses 80% of the wealth, the widest inequality on earth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Belloc in "The Servile State" predicted that slavery would be the ultimate equilibrium for mankind. He saw everything as leaning in that direction. Socialism he viewed as hastening the reduction to servitude. He was certainly correct that people in a capitalist society are not concerned with liberty or freedom, but only for the security of the scraps they receive from the table of the capitalist (thus socialism). PCR at Taki,s Mag states that 1% of the population of America possesses 80% of the wealth, the widest inequality on earth.</p>
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		<title>By: Miles Gloriosus</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/10/30/the-fruits-of-intervention/comment-page-2/#comment-194819</link>
		<dc:creator>Miles Gloriosus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:55:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=3191#comment-194819</guid>
		<description>Brock H@12 wrote: &quot;Matt, while some of my friends here on this website might feel a little too afraid to state outright that no, they do NOT believe slavery is or ever was evil in any way, I don’t. Consider it said.&quot;

Careful, Brock. Slavery may be upon us sooner than you think. With their effective pauperization of the middle class by supporting needless and expensive &quot;patriotic&quot; wars and outsourcing of our industrial base to enrich their own, duh-byah and the other neo-cons were marching along with the one-worlders of the left as they effectively reduced us to servitude while teary-eyed they continued to salute the flag, hum &quot;The Star Spangled Banner&quot; and protest their undying belief in liberty and the rights of man.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brock H@12 wrote: "Matt, while some of my friends here on this website might feel a little too afraid to state outright that no, they do NOT believe slavery is or ever was evil in any way, I don’t. Consider it said."</p>
<p>Careful, Brock. Slavery may be upon us sooner than you think. With their effective pauperization of the middle class by supporting needless and expensive "patriotic" wars and outsourcing of our industrial base to enrich their own, duh-byah and the other neo-cons were marching along with the one-worlders of the left as they effectively reduced us to servitude while teary-eyed they continued to salute the flag, hum "The Star Spangled Banner" and protest their undying belief in liberty and the rights of man.</p>
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		<title>By: Allen Wilson</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/10/30/the-fruits-of-intervention/comment-page-2/#comment-194807</link>
		<dc:creator>Allen Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:01:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=3191#comment-194807</guid>
		<description>Mr Haller,

&#039;I give as good as I get; or, persons here (and even more so in the real world) should not insult me or belittle my true conservative view unless expecting something in return.&#039;

That&#039;s an odd thing for you to say when you were the one insulting and belittling every one else who was posting on this website.

I would wish you all the best if it seemed that you might accomplish anything, but I doubt that you will, given your arrogance. In the end you will shoot yourself in the foot. 

See that you do not become delusional. 

In any event, I suggest you get on with it, and stop hurling insults at everybody here, but if your book has the same tone as your posts here, dont expect great success with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr Haller,</p>
<p>'I give as good as I get; or, persons here (and even more so in the real world) should not insult me or belittle my true conservative view unless expecting something in return.'</p>
<p>That's an odd thing for you to say when you were the one insulting and belittling every one else who was posting on this website.</p>
<p>I would wish you all the best if it seemed that you might accomplish anything, but I doubt that you will, given your arrogance. In the end you will shoot yourself in the foot. </p>
<p>See that you do not become delusional. </p>
<p>In any event, I suggest you get on with it, and stop hurling insults at everybody here, but if your book has the same tone as your posts here, dont expect great success with it.</p>
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		<title>By: Lone Racer</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/10/30/the-fruits-of-intervention/comment-page-2/#comment-194803</link>
		<dc:creator>Lone Racer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:00:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=3191#comment-194803</guid>
		<description>To Mr. Richert @70: 

Any website has a perfect moral (and for now still legal) right to ban (or refuse service? I&#039;d assume so, but am not sure) whomsoever it chooses. But I am using &quot;moral&quot; strictly in the property or freedom of association senses. Those responsible for a product&#039;s existence may do with it as they will, provided they don&#039;t use it in a criminal manner (that sounds very libertarian, which I am not, either politically or philosophically, but I do think the libertarian understanding of property considered only in itself, not in relation to other, possibly superseding, goods, is correct). You are not under any legal or Biblical duty to host my comments (or anyone else&#039;s).

But if I were banned, would it be wrong of me to object? I think not. This is an ideological website, hosted by an American organization. In America, you might recall, we not only have a tradition of free speech, we actually have a prescriptive protection for it in our founding documents. I realize that liberals have warped the concept of free speech into something that the Framers would have found unrecognizable, extending First Amendment protections to pornography, performance &#039;art&#039;, entertainment (but, curiously, not commercial advertising), and other areas of speech never envisioned as such by the Founders. 

Surely you would acknowledge, however, that the free speech clause applies to political speech (which is all I believe it applies to), and that my various comments fall into that category (as much as any others&#039;, at least; I may have some personal asides, responses to personal attacks, and the like, but so do others here, and in the real world of politics). 

Now there is such a thing as rhetorical rules of order. People in a deliberative body, for the institution to function as intended, must suffer some behavioral regulations. Free speech, in the literal sense, cannot encompass endless interruption, or &#039;monologuing&#039;. Perhaps politically irrelevant obscenities, or even personal attacks (&quot;Mr. Jefferson has a mulatto love child!&quot;), can be banned, without infringing the speech principle. Certainly, we couldn&#039;t be expected to have our leaders mouth corporate advertisements from their grandstands.

But if there is one single type of speech which, in the American system, even the most hidebound reactionary, or PC offense-monger, MUST abide, which must remain unregulated, it is that which directly addresses political topics. That is our way of political life (if you don&#039;t like it, move to Saudi Arabia or North Korea).  

My comments invariably address political or academic topics (with occasional autobiographical digressions, as with other comment-posters) and they do so without violating common forensic rules. I don&#039;t copy and paste long and irrelevant outside material, which could interrupt the site&#039;s visuals. I don&#039;t make unsolicited personal attacks. I don&#039;t hurl epithets, or lace my scribblings with obscenities. i don&#039;t insert irrelevant, non-topical information into comments (&quot;this reminds me of this cool movie where ...&quot;). So why would I be awfully close to being banned?

There is only one answer. The Powers That Be dislike the content of my comments, which, because my comments always pertain to political (or social, cultural, moral) issues, really means, they don&#039;t like my politics. 

An agent of an American website, affiliated with an American and self-designatedly &#039;conservative&#039; magazine devoted to (mostly American) political and cultural analysis, operating under the aegis of an American foundation (which probably receives preferential tax treatment as some type of non-profit or quasi-public entity, serving a public or social purpose), thinks he has a moral right to ban the free expression of conservative political opinions he finds distasteful.

Why, that would be awfully close to un-American.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Mr. Richert @70: </p>
<p>Any website has a perfect moral (and for now still legal) right to ban (or refuse service? I'd assume so, but am not sure) whomsoever it chooses. But I am using "moral" strictly in the property or freedom of association senses. Those responsible for a product's existence may do with it as they will, provided they don't use it in a criminal manner (that sounds very libertarian, which I am not, either politically or philosophically, but I do think the libertarian understanding of property considered only in itself, not in relation to other, possibly superseding, goods, is correct). You are not under any legal or Biblical duty to host my comments (or anyone else's).</p>
<p>But if I were banned, would it be wrong of me to object? I think not. This is an ideological website, hosted by an American organization. In America, you might recall, we not only have a tradition of free speech, we actually have a prescriptive protection for it in our founding documents. I realize that liberals have warped the concept of free speech into something that the Framers would have found unrecognizable, extending First Amendment protections to pornography, performance 'art', entertainment (but, curiously, not commercial advertising), and other areas of speech never envisioned as such by the Founders. </p>
<p>Surely you would acknowledge, however, that the free speech clause applies to political speech (which is all I believe it applies to), and that my various comments fall into that category (as much as any others', at least; I may have some personal asides, responses to personal attacks, and the like, but so do others here, and in the real world of politics). </p>
<p>Now there is such a thing as rhetorical rules of order. People in a deliberative body, for the institution to function as intended, must suffer some behavioral regulations. Free speech, in the literal sense, cannot encompass endless interruption, or 'monologuing'. Perhaps politically irrelevant obscenities, or even personal attacks ("Mr. Jefferson has a mulatto love child!"), can be banned, without infringing the speech principle. Certainly, we couldn't be expected to have our leaders mouth corporate advertisements from their grandstands.</p>
<p>But if there is one single type of speech which, in the American system, even the most hidebound reactionary, or PC offense-monger, MUST abide, which must remain unregulated, it is that which directly addresses political topics. That is our way of political life (if you don't like it, move to Saudi Arabia or North Korea).  </p>
<p>My comments invariably address political or academic topics (with occasional autobiographical digressions, as with other comment-posters) and they do so without violating common forensic rules. I don't copy and paste long and irrelevant outside material, which could interrupt the site's visuals. I don't make unsolicited personal attacks. I don't hurl epithets, or lace my scribblings with obscenities. i don't insert irrelevant, non-topical information into comments ("this reminds me of this cool movie where ..."). So why would I be awfully close to being banned?</p>
<p>There is only one answer. The Powers That Be dislike the content of my comments, which, because my comments always pertain to political (or social, cultural, moral) issues, really means, they don't like my politics. </p>
<p>An agent of an American website, affiliated with an American and self-designatedly 'conservative' magazine devoted to (mostly American) political and cultural analysis, operating under the aegis of an American foundation (which probably receives preferential tax treatment as some type of non-profit or quasi-public entity, serving a public or social purpose), thinks he has a moral right to ban the free expression of conservative political opinions he finds distasteful.</p>
<p>Why, that would be awfully close to un-American.</p>
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		<title>By: robert</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/10/30/the-fruits-of-intervention/comment-page-2/#comment-194795</link>
		<dc:creator>robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 14:16:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=3191#comment-194795</guid>
		<description>Lone Racer,
  You are a hard man to like but I do --- even some of your posts. You have some pretty good invective when you are cornered, can fight like a sack full of bobcats, are apparently well read given the times, and a relentless old codger. I like all of that about you. You just need to be sorry for some of your old sins, make a good act of contrition and keep plugging away for the things you love -- which to me are not quite clear at times. But I do enjoy some of your posts when they are hot so damned hateful. We don&#039;t need you here, but it would probably be less of a discussion without you. God Bless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lone Racer,<br />
  You are a hard man to like but I do --- even some of your posts. You have some pretty good invective when you are cornered, can fight like a sack full of bobcats, are apparently well read given the times, and a relentless old codger. I like all of that about you. You just need to be sorry for some of your old sins, make a good act of contrition and keep plugging away for the things you love -- which to me are not quite clear at times. But I do enjoy some of your posts when they are hot so damned hateful. We don't need you here, but it would probably be less of a discussion without you. God Bless.</p>
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		<title>By: Derek Leaberry</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/10/30/the-fruits-of-intervention/comment-page-2/#comment-194794</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek Leaberry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 14:05:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=3191#comment-194794</guid>
		<description>Mr. Piatak,

I am sorry to have missed the Mencken meeting which is forty-five minutes from my house.  However, my children required Halloween transportation Saturday so I could not attend.  I always look forward to reading your essays in Chronicles and Taki and especially enjoyed your recent essay in Chronicles on Christianity which cut to a point many of us would agree upon- without Christianity, this culture will continue to decline.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Piatak,</p>
<p>I am sorry to have missed the Mencken meeting which is forty-five minutes from my house.  However, my children required Halloween transportation Saturday so I could not attend.  I always look forward to reading your essays in Chronicles and Taki and especially enjoyed your recent essay in Chronicles on Christianity which cut to a point many of us would agree upon- without Christianity, this culture will continue to decline.</p>
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		<title>By: S.L. Toddard</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/10/30/the-fruits-of-intervention/comment-page-2/#comment-194793</link>
		<dc:creator>S.L. Toddard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 13:35:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=3191#comment-194793</guid>
		<description>Perhaps I should have said &quot;overarching&quot;.  Race is one component of ancestral identity.  White southerners and Yankee Puritan abolitionist busybodies share that component, though they can hardly be said to share a common identity.  The identity most Southerners (that I speak to, anyway) want most to conserve is more immediate, local and particular than The White Race.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps I should have said "overarching".  Race is one component of ancestral identity.  White southerners and Yankee Puritan abolitionist busybodies share that component, though they can hardly be said to share a common identity.  The identity most Southerners (that I speak to, anyway) want most to conserve is more immediate, local and particular than The White Race.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/10/30/the-fruits-of-intervention/comment-page-2/#comment-194792</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 12:57:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=3191#comment-194792</guid>
		<description>How is physical, ancestral identity the most abstract body?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How is physical, ancestral identity the most abstract body?</p>
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		<title>By: S.L. Toddard</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/10/30/the-fruits-of-intervention/comment-page-2/#comment-194791</link>
		<dc:creator>S.L. Toddard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 12:46:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=3191#comment-194791</guid>
		<description>&quot;No need to worry about “outing” yourself, Mr. Haller&quot;

Oh - Leon Haller.  I remember.  Anyway, Mr. Haller, I&#039;m personally not interested in your version of what you call &quot;conservatism&quot;, and I doubt you will find many converts here to your nationalist cause.  My interest is in decentralizing our nation - one might say in &quot;de-nationalizing&quot; it. I think you make a mistake in focusing first on the largest, most abstract and remote bodies (the nation, the White Race) rather than on the closest, dearest and most immediate.  And your disdain for those things near, dear and local (and for those who value them) demonstrates that in the end we have nothing, really, in common.  We are on opposite sides.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"No need to worry about “outing” yourself, Mr. Haller"</p>
<p>Oh - Leon Haller.  I remember.  Anyway, Mr. Haller, I'm personally not interested in your version of what you call "conservatism", and I doubt you will find many converts here to your nationalist cause.  My interest is in decentralizing our nation - one might say in "de-nationalizing" it. I think you make a mistake in focusing first on the largest, most abstract and remote bodies (the nation, the White Race) rather than on the closest, dearest and most immediate.  And your disdain for those things near, dear and local (and for those who value them) demonstrates that in the end we have nothing, really, in common.  We are on opposite sides.</p>
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