Comments on: EXCLUSIVE: Guns and Roses http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/09/03/guns-and-roses/ Your home for traditional conservatism. Thu, 24 May 2012 15:33:08 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Gilbert Jacobi http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/09/03/guns-and-roses/comment-page-2/#comment-193364 Gilbert Jacobi Mon, 14 Sep 2009 04:23:22 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=3006#comment-193364 @69 Doug Nusbaum Since you've earned the dubious distinction of being the first ever to call me an extrovert in my six decades on this earth, perhaps you need to take some of your own advice and think a little more before you let fly with labels based on reading one post. It was especially unamusing to ponder how all that money I'm accused of taking away from those poor introverts has escaped my notice. But I think you have hit upon a capital idea with that law to legalize the killing of felons! I'll just get me a list of the local varmints and a'huntin' I will go, with some of those freshly trained womenfolk by my side! @69 Doug Nusbaum
Since you've earned the dubious distinction of being the first ever to call me an extrovert in my six decades on this earth, perhaps you need to take some of your own advice and think a little more before you let fly with labels based on reading one post. It was especially unamusing to ponder how all that money I'm accused of taking away from those poor introverts has escaped my notice.

But I think you have hit upon a capital idea with that law to legalize the killing of felons! I'll just get me a list of the local varmints and a'huntin' I will go, with some of those freshly trained womenfolk by my side!

]]> By: Andrew G. Van Sant http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/09/03/guns-and-roses/comment-page-2/#comment-193276 Andrew G. Van Sant Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:58:01 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=3006#comment-193276 Welcome back, Dr. Fleming. When can we expect you to post your essay entitled ‘Blogolalia.’ [Please forgive me for getting off the point. However, while I'm at it (in for a penny, in for a pound, so to speak) when can we expect an issue of Chronicles on the theme of "National Interest"?] Welcome back, Dr. Fleming. When can we expect you to post your essay entitled ‘Blogolalia.’

[Please forgive me for getting off the point. However, while I'm at it (in for a penny, in for a pound, so to speak) when can we expect an issue of Chronicles on the theme of "National Interest"?]

]]> By: Thomas Fleming http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/09/03/guns-and-roses/comment-page-2/#comment-193264 Thomas Fleming Wed, 09 Sep 2009 21:47:54 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=3006#comment-193264 I was away when our friend Justin's piece was posted. It is the first of what will obviously be a provocative series. When I first met Justin, it was in the company of our late friend Murray Rothbard, who had a high regard for him, and it was Murray who warned me, over and over, against the "grifters, whackos, and losers" that infested libertarianism, a group that is comparable in every way to the brownshirts who often make it unpleasant to be associated with the American Right and impossible to make a bold stand that is not immediately co-opted by defenders either of terrorism or child molestation. We founded the John Randolph Club as a place where outspoken but sane people from the different strands of the old right could meet and debate. Perhaps it is time to make another effort? In any event, I hope all faithful Chronicles readers will give Justin a warm welcome and a rousing cheer--even if sometimes it has to be a Bronx cheer. This must be the only magazine and website that can welcome Pat Buchanan, Craig Roberts, Clyde Wilson, Justin Raimondo, and Alex Cocburn. I was away when our friend Justin's piece was posted. It is the first of what will obviously be a provocative series. When I first met Justin, it was in the company of our late friend Murray Rothbard, who had a high regard for him, and it was Murray who warned me, over and over, against the "grifters, whackos, and losers" that infested libertarianism, a group that is comparable in every way to the brownshirts who often make it unpleasant to be associated with the American Right and impossible to make a bold stand that is not immediately co-opted by defenders either of terrorism or child molestation. We founded the John Randolph Club as a place where outspoken but sane people from the different strands of the old right could meet and debate. Perhaps it is time to make another effort? In any event, I hope all faithful Chronicles readers will give Justin a warm welcome and a rousing cheer--even if sometimes it has to be a Bronx cheer. This must be the only magazine and website that can welcome Pat Buchanan, Craig Roberts, Clyde Wilson, Justin Raimondo, and Alex Cocburn.

]]> By: S.L. Toddard http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/09/03/guns-and-roses/comment-page-2/#comment-193250 S.L. Toddard Wed, 09 Sep 2009 16:34:51 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=3006#comment-193250 "Often the drug possession is the only charge that will stick when a miscreant is apprehended" Sure. And others are serving brutally long sentences entirely disproportionate to their crimes. Either way Americans are both the least free and the most criminally-inclined people in the world. "Often the drug possession is the only charge that will stick when a miscreant is apprehended"

Sure. And others are serving brutally long sentences entirely disproportionate to their crimes. Either way Americans are both the least free and the most criminally-inclined people in the world.

]]> By: Jim http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/09/03/guns-and-roses/comment-page-2/#comment-193248 Jim Wed, 09 Sep 2009 16:20:41 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=3006#comment-193248 Just a cautionary note when you start worrying about all those in prison for victimless crimes. Often the drug possession is the only charge that will stick when a miscreant is apprehended. I can tell you from experience I am glad when a certain neighbor spends time in jail for drug possession. When he's out he supports himself by stealing from the neighborhood (and elsewhere) but he has only been convicted of that once. I doubt that there are two many upstanding responsible working citizens in jail for smoking a little pot. Just a cautionary note when you start worrying about all those in prison for victimless crimes. Often the drug possession is the only charge that will stick when a miscreant is apprehended. I can tell you from experience I am glad when a certain neighbor spends time in jail for drug possession. When he's out he supports himself by stealing from the neighborhood (and elsewhere) but he has only been convicted of that once. I doubt that there are two many upstanding responsible working citizens in jail for smoking a little pot.

]]> By: S.L. Toddard http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/09/03/guns-and-roses/comment-page-2/#comment-193247 S.L. Toddard Wed, 09 Sep 2009 14:09:08 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=3006#comment-193247 "I did not mean feral in a subhuman sense." I'm sorry, Robert - I conflated your post and hers in error. My apologies. "I did not mean feral in a subhuman sense."

I'm sorry, Robert - I conflated your post and hers in error. My apologies.

]]> By: robert II http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/09/03/guns-and-roses/comment-page-2/#comment-193246 robert II Wed, 09 Sep 2009 14:05:46 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=3006#comment-193246 Toddard@76 I did not mean feral in a subhuman sense. I meant feral as in a lack of domestication or undeveloped human qaulities such as the ability to move ones self toward or away from perceived goods and desires. The ability to enjoy or love something or somebody other than one's self. A person without arms or legs is still a person just as an impulsive criminal is a person, the former may have been a track star or accomplished musician before lending his service in Afghanistan or Iraq, while the latter may never have thought of service at all. The one has developed and experienced unique human qaulities while the "wretch concentered all in self, living shall forfeit fair renown, and doubley dying shall go down to the vile dust from whence he sprung,unwept,unhonored and unsung." That is what I meant by feral--- something less than a fully developed human but still human. Pax Toddard@76

I did not mean feral in a subhuman sense. I meant feral as in a lack of domestication or undeveloped human qaulities such as the ability to move ones self toward or away from perceived goods and desires. The ability to enjoy or love something or somebody other than one's self. A person without arms or legs is still a person just as an impulsive criminal is a person, the former may have been a track star or accomplished musician before lending his service in Afghanistan or Iraq, while the latter may never have thought of service at all. The one has developed and experienced unique human qaulities while the "wretch concentered all in self, living shall forfeit fair renown, and doubley dying shall go down to the vile dust from whence he sprung,unwept,unhonored and unsung." That is what I meant by feral--- something less than a fully developed human but still human. Pax

]]> By: S.L. Toddard http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/09/03/guns-and-roses/comment-page-2/#comment-193245 S.L. Toddard Wed, 09 Sep 2009 13:29:18 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=3006#comment-193245 "If only you could meet some of those “caged citizens.” They are in fact animals who deservedly got where they are by their severe anti-social behavior." Well, obviously you don't know that. It's not possible for you to know that everyone incarcerated in this country is an "animal who deservedly got where they are". We have the harshest criminal-justice system in the world, populated to a significant degree by people guilty of victimless crimes. Even if we allow that they deserve punishment for violating the law that does not follow that they are the feral subhumans of your caricature. Regardless, even if your ridiculously broad characterization were entirely true then that would mean Americans are both the least free and the most animalistic, criminally-inclined people in the world. Either way, not exactly a source for pride, is it? "If only you could meet some of those “caged citizens.” They are in fact animals who deservedly got where they are by their severe anti-social behavior."

Well, obviously you don't know that. It's not possible for you to know that everyone incarcerated in this country is an "animal who deservedly got where they are". We have the harshest criminal-justice system in the world, populated to a significant degree by people guilty of victimless crimes. Even if we allow that they deserve punishment for violating the law that does not follow that they are the feral subhumans of your caricature. Regardless, even if your ridiculously broad characterization were entirely true then that would mean Americans are both the least free and the most animalistic, criminally-inclined people in the world. Either way, not exactly a source for pride, is it?

]]> By: Ed Roberts http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/09/03/guns-and-roses/comment-page-2/#comment-193244 Ed Roberts Wed, 09 Sep 2009 12:14:47 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=3006#comment-193244 re #42: "if Dr. Paul’s clear, decades-long support of the second amendment was not enough to garner the support of the NRA, then perhaps other things were at work," Yes, such as the fact that the NRA is the largest, best funded gun control lobby in existence. The NRA has written, lobbied for, and/or endorsed every single piece of federal gun control legislation ever passed, as far back as 1934. The NRA is a GOP fundraising organization as well, spending their gullible members' donations on getting out the vote for such gungrabbers as Arlen Spector. That's the main principle "at work" behind the NRA's failure to support Dr. Paul. re #42:
"if Dr. Paul’s clear, decades-long support of the second amendment was not enough to garner the support of the NRA, then perhaps other things were at work,"

Yes, such as the fact that the NRA is the largest, best funded gun control lobby in existence. The NRA has written, lobbied for, and/or endorsed every single piece of federal gun control legislation ever passed, as far back as 1934.

The NRA is a GOP fundraising organization as well, spending their gullible members' donations on getting out the vote for such gungrabbers as Arlen Spector. That's the main principle "at work" behind the NRA's failure to support Dr. Paul.

]]> By: Ed Roberts http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/09/03/guns-and-roses/comment-page-2/#comment-193243 Ed Roberts Wed, 09 Sep 2009 12:03:32 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=3006#comment-193243 re #28: "Lily-livered searching for some middle ground, whether it is in the context of a “bipartisan healthcare bill” or a form of watered-down political protest which panders to the only-moderately-liberals," If you had seen Mr. Raimondo's posting on Free Republic in the early days of the W administration, you probably wouldn't misinterpret his post here in such a way. He was under heavy attack daily by Bush's neocon and liberal supporters, who were in the process of taking over that forum, and never once exhibited any 'Lily-livered searching for some middle ground". Mr. Raimondo is no champion of any sort of appeasement. He's simply a very astute tactician, as a result of many years on the front lines. He's no lily-liver, believe me. I have seen him go, as we say where I come from. re #28:
"Lily-livered searching for some middle ground, whether it is in the context of a “bipartisan healthcare bill” or a form of watered-down political protest which panders to the only-moderately-liberals,"

If you had seen Mr. Raimondo's posting on Free Republic in the early days of the W administration, you probably wouldn't misinterpret his post here in such a way. He was under heavy attack daily by Bush's neocon and liberal supporters, who were in the process of taking over that forum, and never once exhibited any 'Lily-livered searching for some middle ground".

Mr. Raimondo is no champion of any sort of appeasement. He's simply a very astute tactician, as a result of many years on the front lines. He's no lily-liver, believe me. I have seen him go, as we say where I come from.

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