Comments on: Making War http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/08/13/making-war/ Your home for traditional conservatism. Thu, 24 May 2012 15:33:08 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: James Newland http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/08/13/making-war/comment-page-1/#comment-192564 James Newland Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:33:44 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=2623#comment-192564 While not about the Vietnam War per se, one of the greatest of all movies about that era is (in my opinion) The Killing Fields. Whenever I need an illustration of the horrors of totalitarianism to show to younger people, or a real-life example of what the Left is up to in this country, I put on that movie. It's a sobering experience for most of them to discover that such fears are not mere right-wing fantasies and scare-mongering, but have real, historical bases. The similarity between those ice-cold Khmer Rouge kids holding their own parents hostage in the fields at gunpoint to the indoctrinated youth of our own country gives me chills whenever I think about it... While not about the Vietnam War per se, one of the greatest of all movies about that era is (in my opinion) The Killing Fields. Whenever I need an illustration of the horrors of totalitarianism to show to younger people, or a real-life example of what the Left is up to in this country, I put on that movie. It's a sobering experience for most of them to discover that such fears are not mere right-wing fantasies and scare-mongering, but have real, historical bases.

The similarity between those ice-cold Khmer Rouge kids holding their own parents hostage in the fields at gunpoint to the indoctrinated youth of our own country gives me chills whenever I think about it...

]]> By: Ken Zaretzke http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/08/13/making-war/comment-page-1/#comment-192559 Ken Zaretzke Tue, 18 Aug 2009 01:29:07 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=2623#comment-192559 #24: "Patton" is indeed a good one. It's mystifying that this great general--the greatest of the 20th century--is not celebrated in more movies--what makes better drama than Patton's almost literally mad dash through France and Germany? The German generals were in awe of the unconventional American. Speaking of Germans, what about "Das Boot"? It's the best of the submarine movies, clearly influenced by a movie I adored as a young kid: "Run Silent, Run Deep." #24: "Patton" is indeed a good one. It's mystifying that this great general--the greatest of the 20th century--is not celebrated in more movies--what makes better drama than Patton's almost literally mad dash through France and Germany? The German generals were in awe of the unconventional American. Speaking of Germans, what about "Das Boot"? It's the best of the submarine movies, clearly influenced by a movie I adored as a young kid: "Run Silent, Run Deep."

]]> By: David B. http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/08/13/making-war/comment-page-1/#comment-192553 David B. Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:43:15 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=2623#comment-192553 Michael Lee Lanning, an infantry platoon commander in Vietnam, has written several books on the subject. One of his books was "Vietnam At The Movies." Of "Hamburger Hill," he wrote: "This fictionalized version of the actual event delivers many truths. The actors are convincing in appearance and action; their language, slang, and profanity are accurate; and their weapons and equipment are as they really were. This is an exhausting movie to watch, and while it may not have received the accolades of the media or the monetary returns of "Platoon" and "Full Metal Jacket," it is a much more realistic portrayal of the war and its warriors." Lanning also praised "Go Tell The Spartans." He has a low opinion of most Hollywood products concerning Vietnam. Michael Lee Lanning, an infantry platoon commander in Vietnam, has written several books on the subject. One of his books was "Vietnam At The Movies." Of "Hamburger Hill," he wrote:

"This fictionalized version of the actual event delivers many truths. The actors are convincing in appearance and action; their language, slang, and profanity are accurate; and their weapons and equipment are as they really were. This is an exhausting movie to watch, and while it may not have received the accolades of the media or the monetary returns of "Platoon" and "Full Metal Jacket," it is a much more realistic portrayal of the war and its warriors."

Lanning also praised "Go Tell The Spartans." He has a low opinion of most Hollywood products concerning Vietnam.

]]> By: Steve Berg http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/08/13/making-war/comment-page-1/#comment-192549 Steve Berg Mon, 17 Aug 2009 22:17:41 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=2623#comment-192549 From my experience, Kirt is correct. In my unit, we had a German captain, who was field commissioned, a South Korean, and men from Puerto Rico, Panama, and probably other places that I can no longer recall. I was trained with others from places like Ireland. My little infantry/recon unit was almost all draftees. Most of our officers were either ROTC or OCS graduates. We had one West Pointer, and the field commissioned captain mentioned above. At one point, we had an enlisted company commander, a Sergeant First Class (E-7) who was placed above two Second Lieutenants by the order of our battalion commander. There was considerable racial and ethnic strife in the Army at that point, but we still had strong unit cohesion most of the time. There were still some incidents between blacks and whites. But when our black First Sergeant screwed up a combat patrol he was "leading" and wound up getting a popular black soldier killed, he was nearly fragged by outraged white soldiers. I was there in the First Cav from December of 1968 through the end of January in 1970. Things got steadily worse after I left, especially after the heavy losses in the Cambodian Incursion. From my experience, Kirt is correct. In my unit, we had a German captain, who was field commissioned, a South Korean, and men from Puerto Rico, Panama, and probably other places that I can no longer recall. I was trained with others from places like Ireland. My little infantry/recon unit was almost all draftees. Most of our officers were either ROTC or OCS graduates. We had one West Pointer, and the field commissioned captain mentioned above. At one point, we had an enlisted company commander, a Sergeant First Class (E-7) who was placed above two Second Lieutenants by the order of our battalion commander. There was considerable racial and ethnic strife in the Army at that point, but we still had strong unit cohesion most of the time. There were still some incidents between blacks and whites. But when our black First Sergeant screwed up a combat patrol he was "leading" and wound up getting a popular black soldier killed, he was nearly fragged by outraged white soldiers. I was there in the First Cav from December of 1968 through the end of January in 1970. Things got steadily worse after I left, especially after the heavy losses in the Cambodian Incursion.

]]> By: Kirt Higdon http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/08/13/making-war/comment-page-1/#comment-192547 Kirt Higdon Mon, 17 Aug 2009 22:06:46 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=2623#comment-192547 #25 - By all races, I meant black, white, american indian, latin american mestizo, east asian and various combinations thereof. By many foreign countries, I was referring to soldiers I met who were born abroad, whether or not they were naturalized citizens or had not yet become citizens. I did not keep an exact count of countries of origin. And yes, the army in Vietnam was mostly composed of draftees. Even the officers and units which were technically all volunteer could be considered partially draftee because in those days many "volunteered" rather than waiting to be drafted because you could not get a decent civilian job with military service still hanging over you. I might add that my own service was relatively early in the war (1966) when discipline was still relatively good and morale relatively high. This was before the Tet offensive, before the Hamburger Hill battle, before the breakdown of the US army in Vietnam to a sullen, pot-smoking, officer-fragging, mutinous mob. But the signs of future trouble were already there at the time I was there. #25 - By all races, I meant black, white, american indian, latin american mestizo, east asian and various combinations thereof. By many foreign countries, I was referring to soldiers I met who were born abroad, whether or not they were naturalized citizens or had not yet become citizens. I did not keep an exact count of countries of origin. And yes, the army in Vietnam was mostly composed of draftees. Even the officers and units which were technically all volunteer could be considered partially draftee because in those days many "volunteered" rather than waiting to be drafted because you could not get a decent civilian job with military service still hanging over you. I might add that my own service was relatively early in the war (1966) when discipline was still relatively good and morale relatively high. This was before the Tet offensive, before the Hamburger Hill battle, before the breakdown of the US army in Vietnam to a sullen, pot-smoking, officer-fragging, mutinous mob. But the signs of future trouble were already there at the time I was there.

]]> By: Derek Leaberry http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/08/13/making-war/comment-page-1/#comment-192546 Derek Leaberry Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:17:34 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=2623#comment-192546 If I could add another, "Paths of Glory" is very fine. Along with "Lonely are the Brave"(aka Edward Abbey's "Brave Cowboy"), "Paths of Glory" is Kirk Douglas at his best. If I could add another, "Paths of Glory" is very fine. Along with "Lonely are the Brave"(aka Edward Abbey's "Brave Cowboy"), "Paths of Glory" is Kirk Douglas at his best.

]]> By: Tom Piatak http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/08/13/making-war/comment-page-1/#comment-192545 Tom Piatak Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:58:01 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=2623#comment-192545 Mr. Leaberry: Those are three of my favorite films. Mr. Leaberry:

Those are three of my favorite films.

]]> By: Derek Leaberry http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/08/13/making-war/comment-page-1/#comment-192543 Derek Leaberry Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:39:42 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=2623#comment-192543 "Twelve O'clock High" was top-notch, one of the best of its genre. Gregory Peck was in fine form and the supporting cast was excellent. I am also fond of "Zulu" and "Breaker Morant". "Twelve O'clock High" was top-notch, one of the best of its genre. Gregory Peck was in fine form and the supporting cast was excellent. I am also fond of "Zulu" and "Breaker Morant".

]]> By: Robert II http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/08/13/making-war/comment-page-1/#comment-192541 Robert II Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:24:24 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=2623#comment-192541 "But all races, cultures, and many foreign countries were represented." Mr. Higdon, Would you mind to name them "all" for me? Or what you mean by "all" and "many" foreign countries? The comment:"That’s not to say that the cultures always got along very well - my own unit had a nasty race riot." This sounds more like a mob, a draft, or a mercenary unit than a volunteer force of patriots. Or maybe the volunteers were mostly officers? "But all races, cultures, and many foreign countries were represented."

Mr. Higdon,
Would you mind to name them "all" for me? Or what you mean by "all" and "many" foreign countries?

The comment:"That’s not to say that the cultures always got along very well - my own unit had a nasty race riot." This sounds more like a mob, a draft, or a mercenary unit than a volunteer force of patriots. Or maybe the volunteers were mostly officers?

]]> By: Kirt Higdon http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/08/13/making-war/comment-page-1/#comment-192539 Kirt Higdon Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:36:35 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=2623#comment-192539 It's been a long time since I saw Hamburger Hill, and I don't remember it well enough to really comment on it. But I am puzzled by the phrase "anachronistically multi-cultural". The army in Vietnam was very multi-cultural and there is nothing anachronistic about so portraying it. That's not to say that the cultures always got along very well - my own unit had a nasty race riot. But all races, cultures, and many foreign countries were represented. Below officers' ranks, however, educated whites were very, very few and far between. It's been a long time since I saw Hamburger Hill, and I don't remember it well enough to really comment on it. But I am puzzled by the phrase "anachronistically multi-cultural". The army in Vietnam was very multi-cultural and there is nothing anachronistic about so portraying it. That's not to say that the cultures always got along very well - my own unit had a nasty race riot. But all races, cultures, and many foreign countries were represented. Below officers' ranks, however, educated whites were very, very few and far between.

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