If that is the case, what would be a strategy for takeover and renewal? I assume that there would need to be a concerted effort nationwide in order to have any real benefit. How would such a project be financed?

@50, Mr. Scallon: "The GOP of today is so weak in so many places that it is ripe for takeover and there is such a vacumn of ideas, that it is also ripe for renewal. Some poeple may wish to bury it and I don’t blame them one bit. But if they do so they’ll be burying opportunity as well."

That's the truth. And thanks also for the brief lesson on what it took to dismantle the Whigs.

To those who think they stand a chance at reforming even an inch of the Democratic party wherever you live, then do it. If you think you have a chance of filling this vacuum in the GOP where you live, then do it. To those who criticize Pat Buchanan's occassional intellectual inconsistencies or his refusal to turn his back on the sad realities of today given the political betrayals of his past, know he is out there every day with his sleeves rolled up and both fists swinging.

If you yearn for a republican America but have been so burned previously and thus refuse to take part in the politics, at least choose your words more carefully or stay silent and stop cutting off at the knees those who are trying to find a way through this mess.

It may very well be Obama's victory was largely based on anti-Bushism and may very well be that his failures will be taken out on him. After all, Reagan and the GOP suffered setbacks for economic problems in the 1982,'86 and '90 mid-term elections. But to simply suggest that if it wasn't for last fall's economic meltdown, McCain would have eked out a victory thanks in large part to Sarah Palin, is a fantasy. I suppose one could say Herbert Hoover would have been in better shape if the Depression had taken place. Or Jimmy Carter possibly could have won if there wasn't a hostage crisis in Iran. If the Tet Offensive hadn't happened perhaps LBJ would have been renominated too. All of this speculation is irrelevent. The finanical crisis happened and unlike Hurricane Katrina it wasn't an act of nature. Its happening was due to a long line of bad government policies(by many policy makers) and when the bill came due as it did, it simply reinforced the notion the Republicans didn't have a clue as to what they were doing with the economy, which is why McCain's response to the crisis was so terrible. He really didn't know what to do.

The long term problem for the GOP is that many of its so-called leaders, both its politicians and its supporters in the media, have yet to come grips with how disasterous the Bush II presidency was to it and have no real solutions to completely remake the party to be able to compete in the U.S. today, not of 1984. So they deceive the base of Republican voters with rhetoric which states what we believe in is not the problem. The problem lies with bad leadership, bad politicans and bad strategy and communications and just plain old bad luck. Thus nothing of what was said or done over the past eight years either matters or is worthy of reflection or thought or even apology because within a six-month period we can simply forget the past and become the party we always wanted to be, right? And little do these leaders realize that the question then has to be asked why weren't you this way before? Do you only act your true selves in the minority? Then why not stay a minority and be consistent all the time?

In the wake of all this incompetency, its tempting to think the GOP is nearing death's door. It would be a nice thing to have happen, but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for it to happen. The Whig Party died after 1852 because a significant faction of it, mainly concentrated in the North and backed by political machines and powerful financiers of the country's new industries, and leaders of its communications at the time (Horace Greeley for example) had the political heft and credibility to break away from the Whigs and gather in dissidents from the Democrats and the successor to the Whigs, the American Party, to form the Republicans. Likewise in the South, the calls for solidarity in the wake of this new Northern party killed the Whig Party in that region because their nationalism became unpopular.

What sort of credible schism could take place now in the GOP that ultimately kill it? Certainly not that of moderate Republicans, so few in numbers they are. Ron Paul Republicans could leave, but they would go right back into the third party ghetto. What the new party should be is that of the Old Democratic Party from 1868-1896 which was conservative, monetarist and localist and which achieved a rough partity with the Republicans until the Populist takeover. It would be the perfect piece to compete against the Nationalist GOP and Universalist Democrats. Unfortunatlely such a new party right now would be pretty small and have few adherents.

It may be that Clyde Wilson is right, that the GOP is complelty unreformable not just because it is the corpratist party, but also because it is the nationalist party of the country and the country has always had a nationalist party. I would like to have one more Ron Paul run for the White House as young-fool idealist before I become completly disillusioned. I still believe that political parties are not static as stones in the political tides of history. Certainly Jefferson and Jackson would be shocked to see the Democrats of today and no doubt Lincoln would be shocked to learn that one of the most Republican-leaning states of today is South Carolina. The GOP of today is so weak in so many places that it is ripe for takeover and there is such a vacumn of ideas, that it is also ripe for renewal. Some poeple may wish to bury it and I don't blame them one bit. But if they do so they'll be burying opportunity as well.

I unfortunately can't speak much Spanish but I'm trying to read a bit of Mexican history so I at least know the problems we are inheriting from the south. While Mexicans carry quite a lot of baggage with them, at least they aren't half-mad Kantian liberals, or the Islamists Europe is importing!

@ 42

You know if secession becomes necessary, and it is gone about in an orderly way, then I think it can be a peaceful process. The cowards in Washington love to take rights away bit by bit, and stomp hard on individuals and small groups, but a mass movement of determined citizens acting through their state legislatures would just leave them wringing their hands. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! That being said, there is a fat tom turkey that keeps wandering through my neighborhood and you can bet he'll be dinner if the economy goes to hell.

Respectfully,

Chesterbelloc