Comments on: It Can’t Be Repeated Too Often (Until It Sinks In), Again http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/03/12/it-cant-be-repeated-too-often-until-it-sinks-in-again/ Your home for traditional conservatism. Sat, 11 Feb 2012 19:05:39 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Etienne Gervaise http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/03/12/it-cant-be-repeated-too-often-until-it-sinks-in-again/comment-page-3/#comment-188412 Etienne Gervaise Sat, 21 Mar 2009 22:11:20 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=1435#comment-188412 Well, I don't know about you folks but I spent all day planting norton grape vines, and I'm only half done. But in 3 years I plan to produce a batch of home-made wine. I'm not too bright either because my SATs were 930. No matter how bad things get, I will never take a federal government check again, I did it in the navy and it was my hardest lesson. Well, I don't know about you folks but I spent all day planting norton grape vines, and I'm only half done. But in 3 years I plan to produce a batch of home-made wine. I'm not too bright either because my SATs were 930. No matter how bad things get, I will never take a federal government check again, I did it in the navy and it was my hardest lesson.

]]> By: J Meng http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/03/12/it-cant-be-repeated-too-often-until-it-sinks-in-again/comment-page-3/#comment-188377 J Meng Fri, 20 Mar 2009 19:15:51 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=1435#comment-188377 Robert @93: Not to belabor the point, but as Belloc notes, the looting of the Catholic Church properties came after a period of twenty years or so when those who had revolted against the Church were "closely intermixed with a very legitimate determination to reform abuses." He goes on to say, "there were grave corruptions in the Church and grave discontent with the organizatin of the Church on the part of masses of men who never dreamed of destroying Church unity or interfering with the great mass of Cchurch doctrine and custom. This was especially the case in England, where the Church was less corrupt than elsewhere and where the people were by nature conservative....But at the end of these twenty years there came--round about 1536-40--a change in what had hitherto been a confused movement....This change was primarily caused by the great effect of Calvin, who set out with the greatests lucidity and unparalleled energy to form a counter-Church for the destruction of the old Church. He it was who really made the new religion, wholly hostile to the old one. At the same time the temptation to loot Church property and the habit of doing so had appeared and was growing; and this rapidly created a vested interest in promoting the change in religion. Those who attacked Catholic doctrine, as, for instance, in the matters of celibacy in the monastic Orders, or of a divinely appointed Hierarchy with the Papacy at its summit, opened the door for the seizure of the enormous clerical endowments, monastic, episcopal and parochial, by the Princes and City Corporations....Such an economic change in so short a time our civilization had never seen....It had for effect the firm establishment of a permanent motive for confirming the success of the Religious Revolution. The new adventurers and the older gentry who had so suddeenly enriched themselves saw, in the return of Catholicism, peril to their immense ne fortunes." (Introduction of Belloc's CHARACTERS OF THE REFORMATION, pp. 3-4, Tan Re-Publication 1992) Robert @93: Not to belabor the point, but as Belloc notes, the looting of the Catholic Church properties came after a period of twenty years or so when those who had revolted against the Church were "closely intermixed with a very legitimate determination to reform abuses." He goes on to say, "there were grave corruptions in the Church and grave discontent with the organizatin of the Church on the part of masses of men who never dreamed of destroying Church unity or interfering with the great mass of Cchurch doctrine and custom. This was especially the case in England, where the Church was less corrupt than elsewhere and where the people were by nature conservative....But at the end of these twenty years there came--round about 1536-40--a change in what had hitherto been a confused movement....This change was primarily caused by the great effect of Calvin, who set out with the greatests lucidity and unparalleled energy to form a counter-Church for the destruction of the old Church. He it was who really made the new religion, wholly hostile to the old one. At the same time the temptation to loot Church property and the habit of doing so had appeared and was growing; and this rapidly created a vested interest in promoting the change in religion. Those who attacked Catholic doctrine, as, for instance, in the matters of celibacy in the monastic Orders, or of a divinely appointed Hierarchy with the Papacy at its summit, opened the door for the seizure of the enormous clerical endowments, monastic, episcopal and parochial, by the Princes and City Corporations....Such an economic change in so short a time our civilization had never seen....It had for effect the firm establishment of a permanent motive for confirming the success of the Religious Revolution. The new adventurers and the older gentry who had so suddeenly enriched themselves saw, in the return of Catholicism, peril to their immense ne fortunes." (Introduction of Belloc's CHARACTERS OF THE REFORMATION, pp. 3-4, Tan Re-Publication 1992)

]]> By: Robert http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/03/12/it-cant-be-repeated-too-often-until-it-sinks-in-again/comment-page-3/#comment-188357 Robert Fri, 20 Mar 2009 00:17:59 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=1435#comment-188357 Meng, I was set upon by evil companions, I have shot all my lead,my sword is broken, there is blood on my hands. I am retiring from the field for the evening as a weary man. Don't think great thoughts or take offense at anything I may have said in the heat of battle, just re-read the thread. I am finished for the day-- maybe until Easter. Meng,
I was set upon by evil companions, I have shot all my lead,my sword is broken, there is blood on my hands. I am retiring from the field for the evening as a weary man. Don't think great thoughts or take offense at anything I may have said in the heat of battle, just re-read the thread. I am finished for the day-- maybe until Easter.

]]> By: J Meng http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/03/12/it-cant-be-repeated-too-often-until-it-sinks-in-again/comment-page-2/#comment-188356 J Meng Thu, 19 Mar 2009 23:52:21 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=1435#comment-188356 Robert @93: "Meng took up the innanity" For my edification, please explain that I took up an inanity. Robert @93: "Meng took up the innanity" For my edification, please explain that I took up an inanity.

]]> By: Robert http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/03/12/it-cant-be-repeated-too-often-until-it-sinks-in-again/comment-page-2/#comment-188353 Robert Thu, 19 Mar 2009 22:56:15 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=1435#comment-188353 "I have the best Belloc collection in Carolina" Doesn't surprise me "I can’t agree with his seeming admiration for Napoleon, however.." Don't put your faith in princes or historians --- even of the rare and wise kind. Felix said to St. Paul, "Paul, you have gone mad with all your learning..." "God's foolishness is greater than man's wisdom." "I have the best Belloc collection in Carolina"

Doesn't surprise me

"I can’t agree with his seeming admiration for Napoleon, however.."

Don't put your faith in princes or historians --- even of the rare and wise kind. Felix said to St. Paul, "Paul, you have gone mad with all your learning..." "God's foolishness is greater than man's wisdom."

]]> By: Clyde Wilson http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/03/12/it-cant-be-repeated-too-often-until-it-sinks-in-again/comment-page-2/#comment-188351 Clyde Wilson Thu, 19 Mar 2009 22:38:58 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=1435#comment-188351 Robert, 99ff Thank you for the clarification. Not having read Belloc on this particular matter, I was led to misjudge what he said. I have the best Belloc collection in Carolina. I can't agree with his seeming admiration for Napoleon, however Robert, 99ff Thank you for the clarification. Not having read Belloc on this particular matter, I was led to misjudge what he said. I have the best Belloc collection in Carolina. I can't agree with his seeming admiration for Napoleon, however

]]> By: Robert http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/03/12/it-cant-be-repeated-too-often-until-it-sinks-in-again/comment-page-2/#comment-188347 Robert Thu, 19 Mar 2009 22:09:25 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=1435#comment-188347 Thank you Sempronius and I will. I have an obsession about Mr. Belloc and have since my college days. I have the best Belloc collection in Oklahoma. He is the only man I ever read with my poor eyes, as none of the others are worth it when you have only so much time to read. For years I simply enjoyed knowing the truth about him while others ripped him -- as a widow enjoys her garden of flowers. But among friends like the Chronicles crowd I speak up more in defense of him, because he is a pearl of great price and should not be simply tossed around swine who survive off the husks of life. But as you say, a line under it for now. Thank you Sempronius and I will. I have an obsession about Mr. Belloc and have since my college days. I have the best Belloc collection in Oklahoma. He is the only man I ever read with my poor eyes, as none of the others are worth it when you have only so much time to read. For years I simply enjoyed knowing the truth about him while others ripped him -- as a widow enjoys her garden of flowers. But among friends like the Chronicles crowd I speak up more in defense of him, because he is a pearl of great price and should not be simply tossed around swine who survive off the husks of life. But as you say, a line under it for now.

]]> By: Sempronius http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/03/12/it-cant-be-repeated-too-often-until-it-sinks-in-again/comment-page-2/#comment-188346 Sempronius Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:57:10 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=1435#comment-188346 Robert,you've done an excellent job of summing up Belloc's argument.There really was no disagreement.This whole thing got started when T Ridenour asked why Southerners are diffident towards Catholics.I opined that its part of the larger Anglo-Protestant heritage.The bit about monastery lands was meant to illustrate that powerful interests were created which secured England adherence to the Reformation's cause.And those interests,in mutated form,perdure to this day,long after the religious factor has abated.Now lets put a line under it. Robert,you've done an excellent job of summing up Belloc's argument.There really was no disagreement.This whole thing got started when T Ridenour asked why Southerners are diffident towards Catholics.I opined that its part of the larger Anglo-Protestant heritage.The bit about monastery lands was meant to illustrate that powerful interests were created which secured England adherence to the Reformation's cause.And those interests,in mutated form,perdure to this day,long after the religious factor has abated.Now lets put a line under it.

]]> By: Robert http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/03/12/it-cant-be-repeated-too-often-until-it-sinks-in-again/comment-page-2/#comment-188344 Robert Thu, 19 Mar 2009 20:39:57 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=1435#comment-188344 Mr. Cooney and Leaberry, The main causes which Mr. Belloc describes are four in number. 1) The weakening of moral discipline among the clergy. 2) The weakening of moral discipline among the laity especially the rich. Although he notes that "they had not,of course. the doctrinal disease of our our time; they did not regard their vices as virutes nor call the rapid grasping of a fortune, heroic, as we do." 3)AN increasing popular indignation at the failure of the Church to reform itself. 4) The permanent hatred of the Catholic faith which has been and is inseperable from its existence on earth since the crucifixtion. Mr. Cooney and Leaberry,
The main causes which Mr. Belloc describes are four in number.

1) The weakening of moral discipline among the clergy.

2) The weakening of moral discipline among the laity especially the rich. Although he notes that "they had not,of course. the doctrinal disease of our our time; they did not regard their vices as virutes nor call the rapid grasping of a fortune, heroic, as we do."

3)AN increasing popular indignation at the failure of the Church to reform itself.

4) The permanent hatred of the Catholic faith which has been and is inseperable from its existence on earth since the crucifixtion.

]]> By: Robert http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/03/12/it-cant-be-repeated-too-often-until-it-sinks-in-again/comment-page-2/#comment-188342 Robert Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:57:38 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=1435#comment-188342 My child said my spelling was bad above? My eye are fading and without any help it is hard to see the screen. The spirit is all. My child said my spelling was bad above? My eye are fading and without any help it is hard to see the screen. The spirit is all.

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