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	<title>Comments on: Lincoln Follies</title>
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	<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/02/16/lincoln-follies/</link>
	<description>Your home for traditional conservatism.</description>
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		<title>By: Allen Wilson</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/02/16/lincoln-follies/comment-page-2/#comment-187667</link>
		<dc:creator>Allen Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 04:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=1244#comment-187667</guid>
		<description>Now Mr Higdon, after faulting me for using the word &#039;race&#039; without providing a definition, which can be found in any dictionary (and I doubt that any definition provided by anyone here would satisfy him, since he seems intent on not being satisfied by any definition any of us might provide) then uses the word himself @66 above. I&#039;ll let that practice speak for itself.

This is ridiculous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now Mr Higdon, after faulting me for using the word 'race' without providing a definition, which can be found in any dictionary (and I doubt that any definition provided by anyone here would satisfy him, since he seems intent on not being satisfied by any definition any of us might provide) then uses the word himself @66 above. I'll let that practice speak for itself.</p>
<p>This is ridiculous.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron D. Wolf</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/02/16/lincoln-follies/comment-page-2/#comment-187649</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron D. Wolf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 16:19:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=1244#comment-187649</guid>
		<description>&quot;And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

&quot;And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood &lt;b&gt;out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation&lt;/b&gt;;

&quot;And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.&quot;

—Revelation 5:8-10</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.</p>
<p>"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood <b>out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation</b>;</p>
<p>"And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."</p>
<p>—Revelation 5:8-10</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Higdon</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/02/16/lincoln-follies/comment-page-2/#comment-187648</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Higdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 16:12:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=1244#comment-187648</guid>
		<description>@65 Indeed, my friend.  I don&#039;t recall the Holy Bible uses the term &quot;culture&quot;, either.

&quot;One can&#039;t help but notice that some tribes work harder than others...&quot;  I would phrase it thus: &quot;One can&#039;t help but notice that most members of some tribes tend to work harder than most members of some other tribes.&quot;  But I believe our thinking is close in this matter.

God visited his punishment upon mankind following the Tower of Babel.  One could speculate that His punishment went beyond confusion of languages.  In any case, it did not erase the discrete beginning of the (one) human race.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@65 Indeed, my friend.  I don't recall the Holy Bible uses the term "culture", either.</p>
<p>"One can't help but notice that some tribes work harder than others..."  I would phrase it thus: "One can't help but notice that most members of some tribes tend to work harder than most members of some other tribes."  But I believe our thinking is close in this matter.</p>
<p>God visited his punishment upon mankind following the Tower of Babel.  One could speculate that His punishment went beyond confusion of languages.  In any case, it did not erase the discrete beginning of the (one) human race.</p>
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		<title>By: Etienne Gervaise</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/02/16/lincoln-follies/comment-page-2/#comment-187642</link>
		<dc:creator>Etienne Gervaise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 05:08:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=1244#comment-187642</guid>
		<description>Race is not a term used in the Holy Bible, but Old Testament divisions are by nation, tribe and tongue.  The New Testament seems only concerned with believers and unbelievers.

That being said, one can&#039;t help but notice that some tribes work harder than others, some are more interested in acquiring knowledge, and some others produce better literature.  And among the believers, some are more childishly emotional while others are more rational and studious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Race is not a term used in the Holy Bible, but Old Testament divisions are by nation, tribe and tongue.  The New Testament seems only concerned with believers and unbelievers.</p>
<p>That being said, one can't help but notice that some tribes work harder than others, some are more interested in acquiring knowledge, and some others produce better literature.  And among the believers, some are more childishly emotional while others are more rational and studious.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Higdon</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/02/16/lincoln-follies/comment-page-2/#comment-187640</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Higdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 04:51:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=1244#comment-187640</guid>
		<description>My obvious implication is that the human &quot;race&quot; and human family are one and the same.  Obviously, that definition satisfies me.  Clearly, I know what I mean by race.  Mr. Allen Wilson demurs from defining race, then insists on using the word in sentences.  I&#039;ll let that practice speak for itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My obvious implication is that the human "race" and human family are one and the same.  Obviously, that definition satisfies me.  Clearly, I know what I mean by race.  Mr. Allen Wilson demurs from defining race, then insists on using the word in sentences.  I'll let that practice speak for itself.</p>
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		<title>By: Allen Wilson</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/02/16/lincoln-follies/comment-page-2/#comment-187638</link>
		<dc:creator>Allen Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 04:14:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=1244#comment-187638</guid>
		<description>Perhaps Mr Higdon should also define &#039;family&#039;.

We can see many varieties of animals out there, and when we look at different kinds of humans, we can see the differences and know that differences do exist. Words are not even necessary when the simple act of seeing informs us of the differences. It would be ridiculous to say that these physical characteristics are not genetic, since they are inseparable from the ethnic groups which have the traits. Why the demands for a definition of one single word? Most people are not Webster and dont have a copy of his dictionary on hand, or care to use google. All words change meaning over time, and have meanings that are not always clearly defined according to common usage. In any even, no matter what we are talking about, the word is never the thing, but that does not mean that words aren&#039;t useful or accurate.

I am not a linguist or a philologist, and neither are most people on this site, so I&#039;ll leave the definition of race to people better qualified to deal with definitions of words. 

The fact that all people are descended from two original ancestors does not preclude the existence of races or ethnic groups, no matter what definitions are used. It is true that all are one in God&#039;s eyes, but we also live in a physical world where you can be mugged or raped purely because of your race.

I wonder if there is a definition that will satisfy Mr Higdon. I also get the impression that for him, &#039;race&#039; seems to have a negative meaning, whatever that meaning might be. The fact that races do exist is not a negative thing, and to think that it is could lead to many sorts of follies, perhaps not on Mr Higdon&#039;s part, but certainly on the part of others. For some reason, it reminds me of Cathars who thought that all things physical were evil and so would starve so that their mass would be smaller, and therefore, less &#039;evil&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps Mr Higdon should also define 'family'.</p>
<p>We can see many varieties of animals out there, and when we look at different kinds of humans, we can see the differences and know that differences do exist. Words are not even necessary when the simple act of seeing informs us of the differences. It would be ridiculous to say that these physical characteristics are not genetic, since they are inseparable from the ethnic groups which have the traits. Why the demands for a definition of one single word? Most people are not Webster and dont have a copy of his dictionary on hand, or care to use google. All words change meaning over time, and have meanings that are not always clearly defined according to common usage. In any even, no matter what we are talking about, the word is never the thing, but that does not mean that words aren't useful or accurate.</p>
<p>I am not a linguist or a philologist, and neither are most people on this site, so I'll leave the definition of race to people better qualified to deal with definitions of words. </p>
<p>The fact that all people are descended from two original ancestors does not preclude the existence of races or ethnic groups, no matter what definitions are used. It is true that all are one in God's eyes, but we also live in a physical world where you can be mugged or raped purely because of your race.</p>
<p>I wonder if there is a definition that will satisfy Mr Higdon. I also get the impression that for him, 'race' seems to have a negative meaning, whatever that meaning might be. The fact that races do exist is not a negative thing, and to think that it is could lead to many sorts of follies, perhaps not on Mr Higdon's part, but certainly on the part of others. For some reason, it reminds me of Cathars who thought that all things physical were evil and so would starve so that their mass would be smaller, and therefore, less 'evil'.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/02/16/lincoln-follies/comment-page-2/#comment-187629</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 22:44:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=1244#comment-187629</guid>
		<description>I simply must reply to 61...

@61: &quot;A mostly distinct gene pool&quot;.

This could be anything from a small clan to a nation of several clans, etc. Wiki has an interesting entry on &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_definitions_of_race&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;historical definitions of race&lt;/a&gt;.

We should drop this off topic debate. A google search brings up racial sites that will readily debate this topic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I simply must reply to 61...</p>
<p>@61: "A mostly distinct gene pool".</p>
<p>This could be anything from a small clan to a nation of several clans, etc. Wiki has an interesting entry on <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_definitions_of_race" rel="nofollow">historical definitions of race</a>.</p>
<p>We should drop this off topic debate. A google search brings up racial sites that will readily debate this topic.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Higdon</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/02/16/lincoln-follies/comment-page-2/#comment-187627</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Higdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 21:41:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=1244#comment-187627</guid>
		<description>@59 &quot;We aren’t talking about what was the case at the beginning of the human race, when there was but one human family and one human race. Rather we are talking about what is the case now, where there are clearly many human families, and likewise, many human races.&quot;

Since we are all descended from two first parents, there is, in fact, only one--greatly extended--human family.

Would someone who believes in multiple human races PLEASE define the term?  I&#039;m still waiting for that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@59 "We aren’t talking about what was the case at the beginning of the human race, when there was but one human family and one human race. Rather we are talking about what is the case now, where there are clearly many human families, and likewise, many human races."</p>
<p>Since we are all descended from two first parents, there is, in fact, only one--greatly extended--human family.</p>
<p>Would someone who believes in multiple human races PLEASE define the term?  I'm still waiting for that.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/02/16/lincoln-follies/comment-page-2/#comment-187626</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 21:16:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=1244#comment-187626</guid>
		<description>Apologies for going off topic.

&lt;blockquote&gt;(The Founders did not create the United States either.  The United States was created by the American spirit of liberty and self-government and the thirteen free and independent States that already existed when they acted.)&lt;/blockquote&gt;I wish students were made aware of this in history classes.

The lie has been well sold that the US is an &quot;experiment&quot; and an &quot;ideological nation&quot; and what not... Some of us call a tiny corner of this immense state home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apologies for going off topic.</p>
<blockquote><p>(The Founders did not create the United States either.  The United States was created by the American spirit of liberty and self-government and the thirteen free and independent States that already existed when they acted.)</p></blockquote>
<p>I wish students were made aware of this in history classes.</p>
<p>The lie has been well sold that the US is an "experiment" and an "ideological nation" and what not... Some of us call a tiny corner of this immense state home.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/02/16/lincoln-follies/comment-page-2/#comment-187625</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 20:46:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=1244#comment-187625</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not a question of applying principles, Mark, it&#039;s a question of observing reality.

And the reality everyone can see is that just as there are subtypes of the dog species that are usually called breeds, there are subtypes of the human species that are usually called races.

&quot;We know by Divine Revelation that human beings are made in God’s image and likeness and that all are descended from two–and only two–first parents.&quot;

We aren&#039;t talking about what was the case at the beginning of the human race, when there was but one human family and one human race. Rather we are talking about what is the case now, where there are clearly many human families, and likewise, many human races.

And it isn&#039;t just a question of &quot;color&quot;, those are just convenient shorthand labels.  Rather it is ancestry, genetics, and morphological characteristics (including skin color, but also facial features, etc.) that mark a person out as belonging to a particular race or combination thereof.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It's not a question of applying principles, Mark, it's a question of observing reality.</p>
<p>And the reality everyone can see is that just as there are subtypes of the dog species that are usually called breeds, there are subtypes of the human species that are usually called races.</p>
<p>"We know by Divine Revelation that human beings are made in God’s image and likeness and that all are descended from two–and only two–first parents."</p>
<p>We aren't talking about what was the case at the beginning of the human race, when there was but one human family and one human race. Rather we are talking about what is the case now, where there are clearly many human families, and likewise, many human races.</p>
<p>And it isn't just a question of "color", those are just convenient shorthand labels.  Rather it is ancestry, genetics, and morphological characteristics (including skin color, but also facial features, etc.) that mark a person out as belonging to a particular race or combination thereof.</p>
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