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	<title>Comments on: Politics of Dante II</title>
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		<title>By: TJF</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/01/13/politics-of-dante-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-186002</link>
		<dc:creator>TJF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>There is no time in my few remaining days in the office to provide the historical and literary lessons necessary to keep this discussion in focus.  I have therefore decided not to post my treatment of the last book of the De Monarchia and to end the discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is no time in my few remaining days in the office to provide the historical and literary lessons necessary to keep this discussion in focus.  I have therefore decided not to post my treatment of the last book of the De Monarchia and to end the discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Warning</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/01/13/politics-of-dante-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-186000</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Warning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:19:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=971#comment-186000</guid>
		<description>“Scripture, properly understood or not, has little or nothing to do with the question”, But did not Dante, Ockham and others who defended the rights of the Emperor said otherwise? That according to these defenders of the Emperor that the best defense of the rights of the Emperor were found first and foremost in Divine Scripture. I think Dante says as much in the beginning of Book III of de Monarchia. Most all of the arguments in 
“Now, if the Pope could make a king,” That is to the heart of the matter. The Pope has no authority to do so according to Dante and others. Not by the authority of Christ and not by apostolic precept.  The pope could never point to the words of Divine Scripture to defend his right to make a king. The office of the Pope was never vested with this authority.  One of the Scriptural arguments against the involvement of priestly office in temporal matters is found here: Then the twelve calling together the multitude of the disciples, said: It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.
“nor, for that matter, do the electors in long stretches of time”  But Dante did not give the term  to the office of the Imperial Electors as the Proclaimers of Divine Providence? According to Dante there is no other clear way to know the mind of God in the matter of choosing the Emperor.  Only by the proper election of the Emperor by the Imperial Electors is one able to accept true rulership of the elected Emperor. The office of the Emperor is not dependent on blood or hereditary right. Just as Dante defended true Nobility from the error of those who insisted that nobility was dependent on Blood and Wealth, Dante here also defends the right of true reulership by claiming that if the Emperor is properly elected by the Proclaimers of Divine Providence then that is truly God’s will and not man’s will.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Scripture, properly understood or not, has little or nothing to do with the question”, But did not Dante, Ockham and others who defended the rights of the Emperor said otherwise? That according to these defenders of the Emperor that the best defense of the rights of the Emperor were found first and foremost in Divine Scripture. I think Dante says as much in the beginning of Book III of de Monarchia. Most all of the arguments in<br />
“Now, if the Pope could make a king,” That is to the heart of the matter. The Pope has no authority to do so according to Dante and others. Not by the authority of Christ and not by apostolic precept.  The pope could never point to the words of Divine Scripture to defend his right to make a king. The office of the Pope was never vested with this authority.  One of the Scriptural arguments against the involvement of priestly office in temporal matters is found here: Then the twelve calling together the multitude of the disciples, said: It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.<br />
“nor, for that matter, do the electors in long stretches of time”  But Dante did not give the term  to the office of the Imperial Electors as the Proclaimers of Divine Providence? According to Dante there is no other clear way to know the mind of God in the matter of choosing the Emperor.  Only by the proper election of the Emperor by the Imperial Electors is one able to accept true rulership of the elected Emperor. The office of the Emperor is not dependent on blood or hereditary right. Just as Dante defended true Nobility from the error of those who insisted that nobility was dependent on Blood and Wealth, Dante here also defends the right of true reulership by claiming that if the Emperor is properly elected by the Proclaimers of Divine Providence then that is truly God’s will and not man’s will.</p>
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		<title>By: TJF</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/01/13/politics-of-dante-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-185997</link>
		<dc:creator>TJF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:02:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=971#comment-185997</guid>
		<description>Scripture, properly understood or not, has little or nothing to do with the question, nor, for that matter, do the electors in long stretches of time.  Even a cursory glance at the history of the Western Empire reveals that the kingship and empire depend far more  on hereditary succession, usurpation, violence, and intrigue than they do on election.  What principle determined the elevation of a family of mayors to be kings of France?  It was the decision of Pope Zacharias.  Now, if the Pope could make a king, perhaps  he could also determine--as he said he did--that the kingship would never pass out of the Carolingian family.  But it did.  It is a serious mistake to pick up a book or piece of history and to scribble on it one&#039;s preconceived opinions.  Someone who carries around an ideology--libertarian, monarchist, etc.--can never actually read anything or take away a valuable lesson, because he is too busy reading in his own rigid mindset.   The commentators on Dante, which are being drawn upon here, are useful, but it is unwise to accept any point of view until one has actually studied the text, preferably in its original language and with so me knowledge of the historical context.  This will prevent not all errors but at least keep the reader out of the trap of hermetic exegesis of texts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scripture, properly understood or not, has little or nothing to do with the question, nor, for that matter, do the electors in long stretches of time.  Even a cursory glance at the history of the Western Empire reveals that the kingship and empire depend far more  on hereditary succession, usurpation, violence, and intrigue than they do on election.  What principle determined the elevation of a family of mayors to be kings of France?  It was the decision of Pope Zacharias.  Now, if the Pope could make a king, perhaps  he could also determine--as he said he did--that the kingship would never pass out of the Carolingian family.  But it did.  It is a serious mistake to pick up a book or piece of history and to scribble on it one's preconceived opinions.  Someone who carries around an ideology--libertarian, monarchist, etc.--can never actually read anything or take away a valuable lesson, because he is too busy reading in his own rigid mindset.   The commentators on Dante, which are being drawn upon here, are useful, but it is unwise to accept any point of view until one has actually studied the text, preferably in its original language and with so me knowledge of the historical context.  This will prevent not all errors but at least keep the reader out of the trap of hermetic exegesis of texts.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Warning</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/01/13/politics-of-dante-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-185996</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Warning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:31:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=971#comment-185996</guid>
		<description>In Purgatorio XVI, Marco the Lombard tells Dante what is necessary for an Just Ruler: “The Shepherd who is leading you can chew the cud, but lacks the cloven hoof.” St Thomas writes on chewing the cud &amp; the cloven hoof: “The animal that chews the cud and has a divided hoof, is clean in signification. Because division of the hoof is a figure of the two Testaments: or of the Father and Son: or of the two natures in Christ: of the distinction of good and evil. While chewing the cud signifies meditation on the Scriptures and a sound understanding thereof; and whoever lacks either of these is spiritually unclean.” Many believe that this line refers to the Pope. I would contend that this line applies to the qualities needed for a just ruler. Correct discernment and understanding of Scripture in defending the rights of the Office of the Emperor (chewing the cud). And the proper and valid election to that office (cloven hoof). Reason for this is that in this contest between the temporal rights of the emperor versus the pope the popes never have proper understanding of Scripture and were not able to defend their position. In Dante’s Monarchia III the Poet destroys most of the popes Scriptural arguments. So in no way does this line: “The Shepherd who is leading you can chew the cud” apply to the Office of the Pope. The pope is unable and unwilling to chew the cud in Scriptural matters pertaining to the Empire. Now for the cloven hoof, St Thomas tells us that the cloven hoof is a figure of the two natures in Christ, or His Kingship and His priesthood. There is found in Purgatory XXXII a two natured beast, the Griffin , who is to pulls and the Chariot to the tree, which then renews. For many this two natured beast is described as Christ. I would disagree and note that it is reasonable to say that the two natured beast describes the Royal and Sacerdotal natures that make up the Office of the Imperial Electors. Three Sacerdotal and four Royal.   St Thomas tells us that: “in the griffon which is hostile to horses and men, cruelty of powerful men is prohibited.”  The griffin or Imperial Electors have the civic duty to fulfill in electing the Roman Emperor. Thus making sure that a Universal ruler can limit the cruelty of powerful men over the rest. Back to “The Shepherd who is leading you can chew the cud, but lacks the cloven hoof.” Even if a ruler possesses right understanding of scripture in defending the rights of the Office of the Emperor but is not properly and validly elected by the Imperial Electors he will fail to be a Just Ruler, and would be no better than a usurper who would be unable to limit the cruelty of powerful men over the rest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In Purgatorio XVI, Marco the Lombard tells Dante what is necessary for an Just Ruler: “The Shepherd who is leading you can chew the cud, but lacks the cloven hoof.” St Thomas writes on chewing the cud &amp; the cloven hoof: “The animal that chews the cud and has a divided hoof, is clean in signification. Because division of the hoof is a figure of the two Testaments: or of the Father and Son: or of the two natures in Christ: of the distinction of good and evil. While chewing the cud signifies meditation on the Scriptures and a sound understanding thereof; and whoever lacks either of these is spiritually unclean.” Many believe that this line refers to the Pope. I would contend that this line applies to the qualities needed for a just ruler. Correct discernment and understanding of Scripture in defending the rights of the Office of the Emperor (chewing the cud). And the proper and valid election to that office (cloven hoof). Reason for this is that in this contest between the temporal rights of the emperor versus the pope the popes never have proper understanding of Scripture and were not able to defend their position. In Dante’s Monarchia III the Poet destroys most of the popes Scriptural arguments. So in no way does this line: “The Shepherd who is leading you can chew the cud” apply to the Office of the Pope. The pope is unable and unwilling to chew the cud in Scriptural matters pertaining to the Empire. Now for the cloven hoof, St Thomas tells us that the cloven hoof is a figure of the two natures in Christ, or His Kingship and His priesthood. There is found in Purgatory XXXII a two natured beast, the Griffin , who is to pulls and the Chariot to the tree, which then renews. For many this two natured beast is described as Christ. I would disagree and note that it is reasonable to say that the two natured beast describes the Royal and Sacerdotal natures that make up the Office of the Imperial Electors. Three Sacerdotal and four Royal.   St Thomas tells us that: “in the griffon which is hostile to horses and men, cruelty of powerful men is prohibited.”  The griffin or Imperial Electors have the civic duty to fulfill in electing the Roman Emperor. Thus making sure that a Universal ruler can limit the cruelty of powerful men over the rest. Back to “The Shepherd who is leading you can chew the cud, but lacks the cloven hoof.” Even if a ruler possesses right understanding of scripture in defending the rights of the Office of the Emperor but is not properly and validly elected by the Imperial Electors he will fail to be a Just Ruler, and would be no better than a usurper who would be unable to limit the cruelty of powerful men over the rest.</p>
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		<title>By: Sempronius</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/01/13/politics-of-dante-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-185980</link>
		<dc:creator>Sempronius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 01:34:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=971#comment-185980</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a lousy typer I admit it.Prostrate.Thanks Herr Meng.I owe you one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm a lousy typer I admit it.Prostrate.Thanks Herr Meng.I owe you one.</p>
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		<title>By: J Meng</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/01/13/politics-of-dante-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-185972</link>
		<dc:creator>J Meng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 00:55:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=971#comment-185972</guid>
		<description>Dante or no Dante, without a Christian morality suffusing the political activities of any emperor, his whole edifice falls apart, as we see, today.  And, Sempronius, I know this was a typo, but it is very funny that Europe has a vulnerable prostate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dante or no Dante, without a Christian morality suffusing the political activities of any emperor, his whole edifice falls apart, as we see, today.  And, Sempronius, I know this was a typo, but it is very funny that Europe has a vulnerable prostate.</p>
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		<title>By: Sempronius</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/01/13/politics-of-dante-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-185960</link>
		<dc:creator>Sempronius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 22:01:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=971#comment-185960</guid>
		<description>Dante&#039;s defense of the Empire is a sound piece of reasoning.The Empire represented the only theoretical way that Christian Europe could best organize itself.No other legacy could contend with Rome for the primacy.

But there are problems with it.Claims to Roman succession were,with varying degrees of validity,too numerous,anf far too tangled.Ultimately the various claims cancelled one another out and left Europe prostate before the great national kingdoms.

What I dont believe Dante went into any detail on was the relation of the Empire to these budding kingdoms.In theory the Emperor was suzerain over all of Gaul,Iberia,and Britain, as well as Italy.But only the Italian claims were pressed.Perhaps they should not have been.

This brings to the fore a related topic:Imperial policy.How best to exercise power so as to insure a reasonably secure dominion and safeguard not only the practice of Imperial rule,but also its theoretical foundations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dante's defense of the Empire is a sound piece of reasoning.The Empire represented the only theoretical way that Christian Europe could best organize itself.No other legacy could contend with Rome for the primacy.</p>
<p>But there are problems with it.Claims to Roman succession were,with varying degrees of validity,too numerous,anf far too tangled.Ultimately the various claims cancelled one another out and left Europe prostate before the great national kingdoms.</p>
<p>What I dont believe Dante went into any detail on was the relation of the Empire to these budding kingdoms.In theory the Emperor was suzerain over all of Gaul,Iberia,and Britain, as well as Italy.But only the Italian claims were pressed.Perhaps they should not have been.</p>
<p>This brings to the fore a related topic:Imperial policy.How best to exercise power so as to insure a reasonably secure dominion and safeguard not only the practice of Imperial rule,but also its theoretical foundations.</p>
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		<title>By: TJF</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/01/13/politics-of-dante-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-185951</link>
		<dc:creator>TJF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 18:25:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=971#comment-185951</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d rather not get side-tracked on this issue except to say that there is a difference between a universal spiritual and moral jurisdiction and, on the other hand, secular political jurisdiction. Boniface was a revolutionary both in his teaching and in his practice.  The result was a disaster for Italy, for Boniface personally, and for the authority of the Church.  If Fr. Hughes argues to the contrary, I fear he is being a bit too partisan.  There was always a combination of conflict and collaboration in the relations between Popes and Emperors--both Greek and German.    Unfortunately, as the conflict escalated, each side began to take extreme positions. Boniface attempted to elevate the Church in france and Germany above all secular law and responsibility, and he was slapped down.  Ultimately, he was beaten for his arrogance and suffered as sad an end of Gregory VII.  Though Gregory fought in a better cause, he was, nonetheless, a fool, as one of his closest collaborators put it.   One has to be on guard always, in looking at this matter, against the propaganda issued by both sides.  Let us go back to Dante.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'd rather not get side-tracked on this issue except to say that there is a difference between a universal spiritual and moral jurisdiction and, on the other hand, secular political jurisdiction. Boniface was a revolutionary both in his teaching and in his practice.  The result was a disaster for Italy, for Boniface personally, and for the authority of the Church.  If Fr. Hughes argues to the contrary, I fear he is being a bit too partisan.  There was always a combination of conflict and collaboration in the relations between Popes and Emperors--both Greek and German.    Unfortunately, as the conflict escalated, each side began to take extreme positions. Boniface attempted to elevate the Church in france and Germany above all secular law and responsibility, and he was slapped down.  Ultimately, he was beaten for his arrogance and suffered as sad an end of Gregory VII.  Though Gregory fought in a better cause, he was, nonetheless, a fool, as one of his closest collaborators put it.   One has to be on guard always, in looking at this matter, against the propaganda issued by both sides.  Let us go back to Dante.</p>
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		<title>By: J Meng</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/01/13/politics-of-dante-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-185945</link>
		<dc:creator>J Meng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 17:07:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=971#comment-185945</guid>
		<description>&quot;Dante is obviously thinking much of the time of Boniface VIII’s ambitious and, he would say, quite wrong-headed plan (e.g., in Unam sanctam) to make the Church supreme in the secular as well as in the spiritual realm—a notion quite alien from the spirit of Gregory I or even of Gregory VII.&quot;

It seems there is consistency with regard to what is meant by the principle of &quot;indirect jurisdiction&quot; of the Catholic Church in its relations with the State going back to the fifth century, at least.  In his struggle with Philip the Fair, Boniface VIII issued the bull Unam Sanctam, wherein he declared, &quot;in the power of the Church there are two swords, the spiritual and the temporal--the latter to be used for the Church, the former by the Church; the former by the hand of the priest, the latter by the hand of kings and soldiers, but with the consent and at the pleasure of the priest, ad nutum et patientiam sacerdotis.&quot;  Continuing, he asserts, &quot;if the temporal power goes astray, it will be judged by the spiritual power, and since this is the supreme power, it can be judged only by God....Consequently, we say, declare, and define that to be subject to the Roman pontiff is necessary for salvation, for every human creature.&quot;
  The problem is that at the time of the issuing of this bull its true import was lost in the cacophony of the ongoing debate between &quot;legists&quot; (Pierre Flote, for example) and &quot;canonists&quot; (Giles of Rome, for example) as to the nature of the relationship between Church and State: the legists opting for absolute power on the part of the State, and the canonists for the Church.
  To help resolve this argument, John of Paris and Dante both sought a via media.  Both of their theses were similar, although John&#039;s was more clear.  Fr. Philip Hughes writes in his &quot;A History of the Church&quot; that John of Paris posited, &quot;The two entities Church and State--though unequal in dignity--are co-ordinate in the exercise of authority.  Both originate in the divine plan.  The State derives its authority from God no less really than does the Church.  The spiritual power is indeed the superior of the two, but it is not superior in everything.  The pope, though truly Vicar of Christ by Christ&#039;s appointment, is not in fact heir to the totality of Our Lord&#039;s universal royalty over men and kings.  In its own order the State is, under God, sovereign.&quot;  Yet, John says the spiritual power has authority to regulate the temporal, because the purpose of the spiritual power is a higher thing than the purpose of the temporal.  This regulation is done, however, solely &quot;by instructing the conscience of the prince, and, if the prince fails, by administering correction that is spiritual.&quot;  This is &quot;indirect jurisdiction&quot; and involves the distinction of the terms supreme and sovereign: the Church and the State are sovereign within their own spheres, but the Church is supreme overall, because of the supernatural destiny of men. Dante, as Dr. Fleming explains, tries to find the via media, also, but seems to give the State (i.e., a universal monarchy) more importance for the happiness of man.  Nevertheless, he does admit that the emperor is in some way subject to the Pope &quot;since mortal happiness is in some way established with a view to immortal happiness.&quot;  Dante says that the emperor receives from the pope &quot;that light of grace by which he may rule more virtuously&quot;
  Really, amid all the acrimony between Philip IV and Boniface VIII, this is what the pope was articulating.  Not only this, but he was consistent with the Church&#039;s teaching on this matter.  Pope St. Gregory VII was quite conscious of his responsibility to God for all the souls entrusted to him.  &quot;Political activity may be a necessarty means, but the end in view is always wholly supernatural.  The pope must answer to God for the souls of kings no less than for those of priests and peasants; for kings too must keep God&#039;s law, or find themselves in hell for all eternity.&quot;  He wrote such thoughts to William the Conqueror and even told that king, &quot;and how you, in turn, because of your salvation and that you may come to the land of the living, must and ought to obey me without delay.&quot;  In all of this, there is no evidence that the pope was aiming to become the emperor of the Christian State.
  As Fr. Hughes notes, this principle of &quot;indirect jurisdiction&quot; was not new even at the time of St. Gregory VII.  He cites the instruction of Pope Gelasius to the emperor Anastasius in the fifth century that &quot;the shepherd is charged to guide the whole flock.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"Dante is obviously thinking much of the time of Boniface VIII’s ambitious and, he would say, quite wrong-headed plan (e.g., in Unam sanctam) to make the Church supreme in the secular as well as in the spiritual realm—a notion quite alien from the spirit of Gregory I or even of Gregory VII."</p>
<p>It seems there is consistency with regard to what is meant by the principle of "indirect jurisdiction" of the Catholic Church in its relations with the State going back to the fifth century, at least.  In his struggle with Philip the Fair, Boniface VIII issued the bull Unam Sanctam, wherein he declared, "in the power of the Church there are two swords, the spiritual and the temporal--the latter to be used for the Church, the former by the Church; the former by the hand of the priest, the latter by the hand of kings and soldiers, but with the consent and at the pleasure of the priest, ad nutum et patientiam sacerdotis."  Continuing, he asserts, "if the temporal power goes astray, it will be judged by the spiritual power, and since this is the supreme power, it can be judged only by God....Consequently, we say, declare, and define that to be subject to the Roman pontiff is necessary for salvation, for every human creature."<br />
  The problem is that at the time of the issuing of this bull its true import was lost in the cacophony of the ongoing debate between "legists" (Pierre Flote, for example) and "canonists" (Giles of Rome, for example) as to the nature of the relationship between Church and State: the legists opting for absolute power on the part of the State, and the canonists for the Church.<br />
  To help resolve this argument, John of Paris and Dante both sought a via media.  Both of their theses were similar, although John's was more clear.  Fr. Philip Hughes writes in his "A History of the Church" that John of Paris posited, "The two entities Church and State--though unequal in dignity--are co-ordinate in the exercise of authority.  Both originate in the divine plan.  The State derives its authority from God no less really than does the Church.  The spiritual power is indeed the superior of the two, but it is not superior in everything.  The pope, though truly Vicar of Christ by Christ's appointment, is not in fact heir to the totality of Our Lord's universal royalty over men and kings.  In its own order the State is, under God, sovereign."  Yet, John says the spiritual power has authority to regulate the temporal, because the purpose of the spiritual power is a higher thing than the purpose of the temporal.  This regulation is done, however, solely "by instructing the conscience of the prince, and, if the prince fails, by administering correction that is spiritual."  This is "indirect jurisdiction" and involves the distinction of the terms supreme and sovereign: the Church and the State are sovereign within their own spheres, but the Church is supreme overall, because of the supernatural destiny of men. Dante, as Dr. Fleming explains, tries to find the via media, also, but seems to give the State (i.e., a universal monarchy) more importance for the happiness of man.  Nevertheless, he does admit that the emperor is in some way subject to the Pope "since mortal happiness is in some way established with a view to immortal happiness."  Dante says that the emperor receives from the pope "that light of grace by which he may rule more virtuously"<br />
  Really, amid all the acrimony between Philip IV and Boniface VIII, this is what the pope was articulating.  Not only this, but he was consistent with the Church's teaching on this matter.  Pope St. Gregory VII was quite conscious of his responsibility to God for all the souls entrusted to him.  "Political activity may be a necessarty means, but the end in view is always wholly supernatural.  The pope must answer to God for the souls of kings no less than for those of priests and peasants; for kings too must keep God's law, or find themselves in hell for all eternity."  He wrote such thoughts to William the Conqueror and even told that king, "and how you, in turn, because of your salvation and that you may come to the land of the living, must and ought to obey me without delay."  In all of this, there is no evidence that the pope was aiming to become the emperor of the Christian State.<br />
  As Fr. Hughes notes, this principle of "indirect jurisdiction" was not new even at the time of St. Gregory VII.  He cites the instruction of Pope Gelasius to the emperor Anastasius in the fifth century that "the shepherd is charged to guide the whole flock."</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2009/01/13/politics-of-dante-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-185909</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 22:26:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=971#comment-185909</guid>
		<description>&quot;they are the expression of an integrated mind with a powerful imagination.&quot;
Yes, this is what I meant to say. It is hard for a disintegrated mind with little or no imagination to read Dante.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"they are the expression of an integrated mind with a powerful imagination."<br />
Yes, this is what I meant to say. It is hard for a disintegrated mind with little or no imagination to read Dante.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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