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	<title>Comments on: Love in the Ruins&#8211;More Final Thoughts</title>
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		<title>By: CarolusMagnus</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/11/10/love-in-the-ruins-more-final-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-182298</link>
		<dc:creator>CarolusMagnus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 05:11:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=778#comment-182298</guid>
		<description>re: Michelle at 44: but isn&#039;t choosing not to vote itself a &quot;vote&quot;? Choosing not to decide is still a choice/vote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: Michelle at 44: but isn't choosing not to vote itself a "vote"? Choosing not to decide is still a choice/vote.</p>
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		<title>By: Jd</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/11/10/love-in-the-ruins-more-final-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-181879</link>
		<dc:creator>Jd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 14:40:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=778#comment-181879</guid>
		<description>#23 Robert Bruce writes:

&quot;Conservatives’ big mistake was to nominate McCain in the first place.&quot;

I think that McCain&#039;s victory in the primaries was largely due to our &quot;open&quot; primary system where in some critical states, Independents and Democrats are allowed to cast their votes for Republican candidates.  That McCain was propelled to the nomination should serve as a good case for primary system reform.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#23 Robert Bruce writes:</p>
<p>"Conservatives’ big mistake was to nominate McCain in the first place."</p>
<p>I think that McCain's victory in the primaries was largely due to our "open" primary system where in some critical states, Independents and Democrats are allowed to cast their votes for Republican candidates.  That McCain was propelled to the nomination should serve as a good case for primary system reform.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew G. Van Sant</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/11/10/love-in-the-ruins-more-final-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-181827</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew G. Van Sant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 02:29:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=778#comment-181827</guid>
		<description>TJF @36:
My intent was to provide everyone some additional information on annointing with oil and chrism to supplement and expand on your discusion on the etymology.  I assumed that I wasn&#039;t telling you anything you didn&#039;t already know.  Thank you for your acknowledgment.

@40:
Regarding the choice between public and Christian schools: I fear that as time passes there is not much difference between them because most, if not all, of the teachers in public and private schools are products of state teachers&#039; curriculae/certification programs and this affects both what is taught and how it is taught in private schools.  My older daughter graduated from the University of Maryland with a degree and certificate in early childhood education.  Many of her required courses were intended to impart feminist doctrine, multiculturalism, and similar indoctrination.  She learned more about teaching and developed as a teacher before she went to college by serving first as a supervised volunteer for a couple years and then as a paid summer program counselor for a private elementary school.  She taught younger children arts and crafts, reading, math, games (sports), and similar skills.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TJF @36:<br />
My intent was to provide everyone some additional information on annointing with oil and chrism to supplement and expand on your discusion on the etymology.  I assumed that I wasn't telling you anything you didn't already know.  Thank you for your acknowledgment.</p>
<p>@40:<br />
Regarding the choice between public and Christian schools: I fear that as time passes there is not much difference between them because most, if not all, of the teachers in public and private schools are products of state teachers' curriculae/certification programs and this affects both what is taught and how it is taught in private schools.  My older daughter graduated from the University of Maryland with a degree and certificate in early childhood education.  Many of her required courses were intended to impart feminist doctrine, multiculturalism, and similar indoctrination.  She learned more about teaching and developed as a teacher before she went to college by serving first as a supervised volunteer for a couple years and then as a paid summer program counselor for a private elementary school.  She taught younger children arts and crafts, reading, math, games (sports), and similar skills.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh Cooney</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/11/10/love-in-the-ruins-more-final-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-181810</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Cooney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 21:47:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=778#comment-181810</guid>
		<description>Dr. Fleming has been threatening lately to become a poet.  I&#039;ve certainly never seen this poem in my Norton Anthology.  In any case, this is sound advice.  It seems clear to me that American politics is a circus and can&#039;t be taken seriously.  If there is one good thing about the situation is that our only alternative to the insanity of modern life is to redirect our energy towards religion, family, and reading.   Especially in regards to religion, when times are cozy it is easy to push those duties to the backburner.  During times of absurdity and tragedy, however, my thoughts always run aground on John 6:68:  &quot;Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go?  thou hast the words of eternal life.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Fleming has been threatening lately to become a poet.  I've certainly never seen this poem in my Norton Anthology.  In any case, this is sound advice.  It seems clear to me that American politics is a circus and can't be taken seriously.  If there is one good thing about the situation is that our only alternative to the insanity of modern life is to redirect our energy towards religion, family, and reading.   Especially in regards to religion, when times are cozy it is easy to push those duties to the backburner.  During times of absurdity and tragedy, however, my thoughts always run aground on John 6:68:  "Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go?  thou hast the words of eternal life."</p>
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		<title>By: TJF</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/11/10/love-in-the-ruins-more-final-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-181788</link>
		<dc:creator>TJF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 15:03:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=778#comment-181788</guid>
		<description>Then what is to be done in these dark times?  I was asked this question during a round table discussion in Texas.  I gave my usual answer, which is, nothing and everything, that is nothing in the way of political action until we can be sure of pragmatic results and everything we must do to lead good leaves during any time. I used the example of early Christians who did not run around protesting infanticide or denouncing the Empire--a position, by the way, that distinguished them form Stoic hotheads, who virtually demanded to be executed by Vespasian. A young father responded by saying there was no public education, in those days, to destroy the minds and souls of children.  I asked him if there was a state law in Texas requiring Christian parents to send their kids to public schools. His question illustrates a common tendency among even the best sort of people today:  They want to continue to imagine that the system can be fixed, which would relieve them of the terrible burden of living life every day as if we were serious in our professions. 


Yes, there is an opportunity for political reorganization among conservatives who may have learned a few lessons from the past 25 years.  Lesson one is to stick to your own people and, generically speaking, your own religion.  Making common cause with atheist-materialists, Nietzscheans, Muslims, and other non-Christians is futile and self-destructive.  Lesson number two is to plan for hte long-term.  When Goldwater went down in flames in 1964, it took four presidential terms for conservatives to be able to field a presidential candidate in the GOP.  It was thanks to people like Bill Rusher, working for 20 years,  that Ronald Reagan--for whatever that was worth-got elected.  Conservative activists today want the world and they want it now.  Since the 1960&#039;s we have all been infantile in demanding instant gratification.  The result of precipitous action, of following the motto &quot;something must be done&quot; would be something like Sarah Palin under the control of the neoconservatives.  Murray Rothbard, a doomed political activist, used to say that liberals were always looking for a problem so they could say, &quot;we can&#039;t stand idly by.&quot;  To which Murray would, in his inimitable manner--somewhere between a shriek and a cackle--cry out, &quot;Why can&#039;t we.&quot;


Let me conclude with the words of an obscure poet in a verse satire on photography:


           Nothing remains to hold against the rage:
           our soldiers do not fight nor bishops pray.
           Painting and music?  Another lame excuse
           for living badly, staying out of touch.
           Not even Jeffers&#039; mountains look that good,
           their wilderness is tamed by taxes, roads.
           Then what is left, good health and half your wits--
           the code of athletes and couples without kids,
           who have two incomes and no fear of death?
           Recite this pledge:  I will forget myself,
           forget the broken hearts and Ph.D.&#039;s who&#039;ve taught
           the young to hate the world, the flesh, and God;
           I&#039;ll plant flowers, love my wife as she grows gray,
           and make some Baptist teach me how to pray;
           give up on cameras and on everything
           that I shall someday grieve to leave behind.
           I will ignore the symptoms of my disease,
           and--spouting green the Spring--go paint the trees
           not as they seem but as they first were made
           and await the second coming of the Word.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then what is to be done in these dark times?  I was asked this question during a round table discussion in Texas.  I gave my usual answer, which is, nothing and everything, that is nothing in the way of political action until we can be sure of pragmatic results and everything we must do to lead good leaves during any time. I used the example of early Christians who did not run around protesting infanticide or denouncing the Empire--a position, by the way, that distinguished them form Stoic hotheads, who virtually demanded to be executed by Vespasian. A young father responded by saying there was no public education, in those days, to destroy the minds and souls of children.  I asked him if there was a state law in Texas requiring Christian parents to send their kids to public schools. His question illustrates a common tendency among even the best sort of people today:  They want to continue to imagine that the system can be fixed, which would relieve them of the terrible burden of living life every day as if we were serious in our professions. </p>
<p>Yes, there is an opportunity for political reorganization among conservatives who may have learned a few lessons from the past 25 years.  Lesson one is to stick to your own people and, generically speaking, your own religion.  Making common cause with atheist-materialists, Nietzscheans, Muslims, and other non-Christians is futile and self-destructive.  Lesson number two is to plan for hte long-term.  When Goldwater went down in flames in 1964, it took four presidential terms for conservatives to be able to field a presidential candidate in the GOP.  It was thanks to people like Bill Rusher, working for 20 years,  that Ronald Reagan--for whatever that was worth-got elected.  Conservative activists today want the world and they want it now.  Since the 1960's we have all been infantile in demanding instant gratification.  The result of precipitous action, of following the motto "something must be done" would be something like Sarah Palin under the control of the neoconservatives.  Murray Rothbard, a doomed political activist, used to say that liberals were always looking for a problem so they could say, "we can't stand idly by."  To which Murray would, in his inimitable manner--somewhere between a shriek and a cackle--cry out, "Why can't we."</p>
<p>Let me conclude with the words of an obscure poet in a verse satire on photography:</p>
<p>           Nothing remains to hold against the rage:<br />
           our soldiers do not fight nor bishops pray.<br />
           Painting and music?  Another lame excuse<br />
           for living badly, staying out of touch.<br />
           Not even Jeffers' mountains look that good,<br />
           their wilderness is tamed by taxes, roads.<br />
           Then what is left, good health and half your wits--<br />
           the code of athletes and couples without kids,<br />
           who have two incomes and no fear of death?<br />
           Recite this pledge:  I will forget myself,<br />
           forget the broken hearts and Ph.D.'s who've taught<br />
           the young to hate the world, the flesh, and God;<br />
           I'll plant flowers, love my wife as she grows gray,<br />
           and make some Baptist teach me how to pray;<br />
           give up on cameras and on everything<br />
           that I shall someday grieve to leave behind.<br />
           I will ignore the symptoms of my disease,<br />
           and--spouting green the Spring--go paint the trees<br />
           not as they seem but as they first were made<br />
           and await the second coming of the Word.</p>
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		<title>By: Miles Gloriosus</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/11/10/love-in-the-ruins-more-final-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-181734</link>
		<dc:creator>Miles Gloriosus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:01:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=778#comment-181734</guid>
		<description>@38: &quot;Conservatives did not nominate McCain.&quot;

Real conservatives, democrats and other leftists knew that McCain was DOA as soon as he won the nomination. (If someone ever writes a chronicle of Mac&#039;s ill-fated adventurer, they could call it &quot;Dead Man Walking II). 

Only McCain and the GOP appartchiki believed he had any more than a snowball&#039;s chance in hell of becoming president.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@38: "Conservatives did not nominate McCain."</p>
<p>Real conservatives, democrats and other leftists knew that McCain was DOA as soon as he won the nomination. (If someone ever writes a chronicle of Mac's ill-fated adventurer, they could call it "Dead Man Walking II). </p>
<p>Only McCain and the GOP appartchiki believed he had any more than a snowball's chance in hell of becoming president.</p>
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		<title>By: Clark Coleman</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/11/10/love-in-the-ruins-more-final-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-181728</link>
		<dc:creator>Clark Coleman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 19:46:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=778#comment-181728</guid>
		<description>@23: &quot;Conservatives’ big mistake was to nominate McCain in the first place.&quot;

Conservatives did not nominate McCain. The crucial early primary wins that made McCain the favorite (New Hampshire, South Carolina, Florida) all showed McCain NOT winning a plurality of the Republican vote, much less the conservative vote. Rather, these states all have &quot;open primaries&quot; in which Democrats and &quot;independents&quot; can decide who the GOP nominee will be. This can be confirmed from the news stories of the exit polls from these primaries.

Job #1 for conservatives is to write their state GOP chairmen and demand closed primaries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@23: "Conservatives’ big mistake was to nominate McCain in the first place."</p>
<p>Conservatives did not nominate McCain. The crucial early primary wins that made McCain the favorite (New Hampshire, South Carolina, Florida) all showed McCain NOT winning a plurality of the Republican vote, much less the conservative vote. Rather, these states all have "open primaries" in which Democrats and "independents" can decide who the GOP nominee will be. This can be confirmed from the news stories of the exit polls from these primaries.</p>
<p>Job #1 for conservatives is to write their state GOP chairmen and demand closed primaries.</p>
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		<title>By: NGPM</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/11/10/love-in-the-ruins-more-final-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-181607</link>
		<dc:creator>NGPM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 15:28:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=778#comment-181607</guid>
		<description>I agree with Mr. Hayter.  It is not that Obama is now president.  Nothing will change, in all likelihood, but the fact that a comfortable majority of Americans, in one of the highest turnouts in history, could elect such a man president is a sure sign that our country is dead.  The &quot;change&quot; refers to our history and identity, and that will not need much work to affect, since Americans have lost any and all sense of history and identity, which, once they are forgotten, simply cease to exist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Mr. Hayter.  It is not that Obama is now president.  Nothing will change, in all likelihood, but the fact that a comfortable majority of Americans, in one of the highest turnouts in history, could elect such a man president is a sure sign that our country is dead.  The "change" refers to our history and identity, and that will not need much work to affect, since Americans have lost any and all sense of history and identity, which, once they are forgotten, simply cease to exist.</p>
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		<title>By: TJF</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/11/10/love-in-the-ruins-more-final-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-181600</link>
		<dc:creator>TJF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:25:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=778#comment-181600</guid>
		<description>On chrism, I thank AvS for his discussion.  My only point was etymological, but I am sure you have helped some readers.


I&#039;ll try to respond to Mr. Hayter later today by finally posting a brief conclusion to my column, one that will justify the title.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On chrism, I thank AvS for his discussion.  My only point was etymological, but I am sure you have helped some readers.</p>
<p>I'll try to respond to Mr. Hayter later today by finally posting a brief conclusion to my column, one that will justify the title.</p>
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		<title>By: A. Hayter</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/11/10/love-in-the-ruins-more-final-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-181597</link>
		<dc:creator>A. Hayter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 10:21:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=778#comment-181597</guid>
		<description>[This is recycled, but seems apposite to the original essay above.]

Here’s the ugly reality. The Authentic Right had a great standard bearer in Pat Buchanan in 1996 and 2000, and in Ron Paul in 2008. The people, OUR people, rejected them. Insofar as I am further to the Right than these distinguished gentlemen, it pains me to acknowledge this, but it’s true, isn’t it?

Worse, Ron Paul was not badly funded. Buchanan was well known in ‘96, even a celebrity. He’d been around the GOP for decades, worked in the White House, etc. But the idiots chose Dole, and later McCain. And those were the ‘conservatives’!

Let’s face it: America is basically leftist, as is the Anglosphere, as is Europe. The West is now left-liberal in its primary ideo-cultural orientation. The Left has never really lost since its violent birth in 1789. Sometimes it overreaches, as with vicious, inefficient communism, or the cultural excesses of the 60s, but the macro-trend is clear.

On one side of the ideological divide stands work, family, country, patriarchy, racial exclusivity, sexual normality, liberty, order, value, morality, religion, discipline, law, sovereignty, justice, culture, civility, rationality, tradition, life.

On the other side stands EQUALITY. Equality has won unconditionally.

The (authentic) American Right should forget about winning “the whole enchilada”, political majorities, the Presidency, and the like, and instead focus its very limited capital simply on promoting those issues most related to basic cultural, economic and physical survival for OUR (conservative/Middle American) people: 1) stopping all (non-white) immigration; 2) safeguarding gun rights; 3) protecting private property and capitalism; 4) executing or at least incarcerating violent criminals; and, a deceptively remote-seeming issue, 5) preserving American national sovereignty (from transnational absorption or erasure). These are the core issues (note I did not mention national defense: liberals want some military, probably enough actually to protect the nation from any unlikely invasions).

Yes, we care about many other things, but they are secondary. The liberals can ruin them without harming the physical needs of ordinary people. And we on the Right have so very, very little wealth, influence or power …</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[This is recycled, but seems apposite to the original essay above.]</p>
<p>Here’s the ugly reality. The Authentic Right had a great standard bearer in Pat Buchanan in 1996 and 2000, and in Ron Paul in 2008. The people, OUR people, rejected them. Insofar as I am further to the Right than these distinguished gentlemen, it pains me to acknowledge this, but it’s true, isn’t it?</p>
<p>Worse, Ron Paul was not badly funded. Buchanan was well known in ‘96, even a celebrity. He’d been around the GOP for decades, worked in the White House, etc. But the idiots chose Dole, and later McCain. And those were the ‘conservatives’!</p>
<p>Let’s face it: America is basically leftist, as is the Anglosphere, as is Europe. The West is now left-liberal in its primary ideo-cultural orientation. The Left has never really lost since its violent birth in 1789. Sometimes it overreaches, as with vicious, inefficient communism, or the cultural excesses of the 60s, but the macro-trend is clear.</p>
<p>On one side of the ideological divide stands work, family, country, patriarchy, racial exclusivity, sexual normality, liberty, order, value, morality, religion, discipline, law, sovereignty, justice, culture, civility, rationality, tradition, life.</p>
<p>On the other side stands EQUALITY. Equality has won unconditionally.</p>
<p>The (authentic) American Right should forget about winning “the whole enchilada”, political majorities, the Presidency, and the like, and instead focus its very limited capital simply on promoting those issues most related to basic cultural, economic and physical survival for OUR (conservative/Middle American) people: 1) stopping all (non-white) immigration; 2) safeguarding gun rights; 3) protecting private property and capitalism; 4) executing or at least incarcerating violent criminals; and, a deceptively remote-seeming issue, 5) preserving American national sovereignty (from transnational absorption or erasure). These are the core issues (note I did not mention national defense: liberals want some military, probably enough actually to protect the nation from any unlikely invasions).</p>
<p>Yes, we care about many other things, but they are secondary. The liberals can ruin them without harming the physical needs of ordinary people. And we on the Right have so very, very little wealth, influence or power …</p>
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