Comments on: The Way We Are Now—Coming to a Bad End? http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/09/26/the-way-we-are-now%e2%80%94coming-to-a-bad-end/ Your home for traditional conservatism. Sat, 11 Feb 2012 19:05:39 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: MAP http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/09/26/the-way-we-are-now%e2%80%94coming-to-a-bad-end/comment-page-1/#comment-179759 MAP Mon, 06 Oct 2008 16:18:06 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=739#comment-179759 R. Scott @ 45. Excellent summation of our predicament. R. Scott @ 45. Excellent summation of our predicament.

]]> By: John Willson http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/09/26/the-way-we-are-now%e2%80%94coming-to-a-bad-end/comment-page-1/#comment-179599 John Willson Wed, 01 Oct 2008 03:43:36 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=739#comment-179599 The Church Clyde talks about is Trinity Church, Wall Street, and commands the entire property, much of which it owns. Trinity may be the richest single parish in the US, of any denomination (it is Episcopalian, of course, and its money props up that disintegrating church). When one considers that Trinity was not only Hamilton's parish but also had to give permission to have Wall Street become the very first electrically illuminated street in the world, one senses its position in the Episcopal-financial-governmental complex. I was once sitting on a bench near Trinity early on a weekday morning and beheld the subway (Twin Towers version) disgorging tens of thousands of earnest financiers heading at a fast pace for the Wall Street opening. I was struck by the women, grim, moving fast, all wearing high-priced running shoes under their business suits. None of them, I assure you, would have known who Hamilton was. That would require a sense of place, and of history. The Church Clyde talks about is Trinity Church, Wall Street, and commands the entire property, much of which it owns. Trinity may be the richest single parish in the US, of any denomination (it is Episcopalian, of course, and its money props up that disintegrating church). When one considers that Trinity was not only Hamilton's parish but also had to give permission to have Wall Street become the very first electrically illuminated street in the world, one senses its position in the Episcopal-financial-governmental complex. I was once sitting on a bench near Trinity early on a weekday morning and beheld the subway (Twin Towers version) disgorging tens of thousands of earnest financiers heading at a fast pace for the Wall Street opening. I was struck by the women, grim, moving fast, all wearing high-priced running shoes under their business suits. None of them, I assure you, would have known who Hamilton was. That would require a sense of place, and of history.

]]> By: R. Scott http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/09/26/the-way-we-are-now%e2%80%94coming-to-a-bad-end/comment-page-1/#comment-179576 R. Scott Tue, 30 Sep 2008 16:09:47 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=739#comment-179576 Leo, Despite the economic "success" of the current system, the truth is closer to MAP's understanding. The ongoing debacle of our banking system is the logical result of the fiat money system we undertook almost a century ago when we removed our currency from the gold standard and made it illegal to make contracts in gold and silver. The system which allows the banking cartel (the Federal Reserve) and the government to pass the costs of devaluing (inflating) our currency onto average working Americans is apparently one of which you are unaware. Advances in technology and productivity combined with the increasing debt of the middle and working classes has masked the ill effects of fiat money for decades, but the inflationary chickens have come home to roost. Our system steals the wages and savings from Americans through inflation and increased taxation. Our system protects the affluent through the limited liability laws which allow the reckless and criminal behaviors of the business and government classes. When disaster strikes politically, financially, or other, you can always count on the system to declare a national emergency, wrap themselves in the American flag (in the spirit of bi-partisanship, of course), and then pass the costs onto the rest of us. These costs are paid for not just in money, but in liberties and lives as well. So while you smugly dismiss any critique of the system in your Limbaughian and Hannityesque ways , please keep in mind that the current system from which you currently prosper is leading us down the road to fascism. Every national emergency is used as an opportunity to consolidate power and every consolidation of power means fewer will prosper. Leo,
Despite the economic "success" of the current system, the truth is closer to MAP's understanding. The ongoing debacle of our banking system is the logical result of the fiat money system we undertook almost a century ago when we removed our currency from the gold standard and made it illegal to make contracts in gold and silver. The system which allows the banking cartel (the Federal Reserve) and the government to pass the costs of devaluing (inflating) our currency onto average working Americans is apparently one of which you are unaware. Advances in technology and productivity combined with the increasing debt of the middle and working classes has masked the ill effects of fiat money for decades, but the inflationary chickens have come home to roost. Our system steals the wages and savings from Americans through inflation and increased taxation. Our system protects the affluent through the limited liability laws which allow the reckless and criminal behaviors of the business and government classes. When disaster strikes politically, financially, or other, you can always count on the system to declare a national emergency, wrap themselves in the American flag (in the spirit of bi-partisanship, of course), and then pass the costs onto the rest of us. These costs are paid for not just in money, but in liberties and lives as well.

So while you smugly dismiss any critique of the system in your Limbaughian and Hannityesque ways , please keep in mind that the current system from which you currently prosper is leading us down the road to fascism. Every national emergency is used as an opportunity to consolidate power and every consolidation of power means fewer will prosper.

]]> By: MAP http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/09/26/the-way-we-are-now%e2%80%94coming-to-a-bad-end/comment-page-1/#comment-179575 MAP Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:57:19 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=739#comment-179575 Dr. Wilson, that's funny. I'm sure they consider it a shrine, Ha, ha! Dr. Wilson, that's funny. I'm sure they consider it a shrine, Ha, ha!

]]> By: Clyde Wilson http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/09/26/the-way-we-are-now%e2%80%94coming-to-a-bad-end/comment-page-1/#comment-179574 Clyde Wilson Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:37:09 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=739#comment-179574 When I visited Wall Street years ago (the only time) they showed me the old church round the corner where Hamilton is buried, and pointed out that the brokers and financiers put fresh flowers on his grave every day. When I visited Wall Street years ago (the only time) they showed me the old church round the corner where Hamilton is buried, and pointed out that the brokers and financiers put fresh flowers on his grave every day.

]]> By: MAP http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/09/26/the-way-we-are-now%e2%80%94coming-to-a-bad-end/comment-page-1/#comment-179568 MAP Tue, 30 Sep 2008 13:40:56 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=739#comment-179568 Leo, having reread your post and the nasty tone in which it was composed, I should add that I know you not at all and owe you exactly what you owe me: Absolutely Nothing! Leo, having reread your post and the nasty tone in which it was composed, I should add that I know you not at all and owe you exactly what you owe me: Absolutely Nothing!

]]> By: MAP http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/09/26/the-way-we-are-now%e2%80%94coming-to-a-bad-end/comment-page-1/#comment-179566 MAP Tue, 30 Sep 2008 11:51:17 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=739#comment-179566 Leo, I meant no insult, nor anything personal. The topic was the Hamiltonian system of the Whigs/Republicans that was imposed as a result of Lincoln's war, a system that works to the benefit of the well connected few. Despite what you believe it has done for us, it operates on the same principles that led to the Revolutionary War. A marriage between the central government and wealthy corporations for the sole benefit of this marriage is at odds with the root causes of the Revolutionary War and the Union that arose as a result of the secession from the crown. Leo, I meant no insult, nor anything personal. The topic was the Hamiltonian system of the Whigs/Republicans that was imposed as a result of Lincoln's war, a system that works to the benefit of the well connected few. Despite what you believe it has done for us, it operates on the same principles that led to the Revolutionary War. A marriage between the central government and wealthy corporations for the sole benefit of this marriage is at odds with the root causes of the Revolutionary War and the Union that arose as a result of the secession from the crown.

]]> By: Leo http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/09/26/the-way-we-are-now%e2%80%94coming-to-a-bad-end/comment-page-1/#comment-179554 Leo Mon, 29 Sep 2008 22:02:06 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=739#comment-179554 MAP...what?I'm not exactly sure what system you refer to...it is not the historical United States.Whatever our faults,we did create the wealthiest people on earth and easily the greatest middle class.Our people still eat well,live long and drive cars.Maybe you need to get out more...the American poor live better than most of the planet.Based on those facts,I give up on ever "getting your appreciation"!If you want to bash business owners like me for the cathartic experience..well,right on,dude but don't bite the hand that signs your paycheck. MAP...what?I'm not exactly sure what system you refer to...it is not the historical United States.Whatever our faults,we did create the wealthiest people on earth and easily the greatest middle class.Our people still eat well,live long and drive cars.Maybe you need to get out more...the American poor live better than most of the planet.Based on those facts,I give up on ever "getting your appreciation"!If you want to bash business owners like me for the cathartic experience..well,right on,dude but don't bite the hand that signs your paycheck.

]]> By: MAP http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/09/26/the-way-we-are-now%e2%80%94coming-to-a-bad-end/comment-page-1/#comment-179546 MAP Mon, 29 Sep 2008 17:32:09 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=739#comment-179546 My observation of the housing debacle as it unfolded (for whatever it's worth. I'm no economist and have never had the slightest interest in the subject. And I've yet to see anyone report what I saw.) Manufacturing was fleeing the country, leaving a wake of unemployment in its path. We started into a deep recession, when the high-tech bubble took hold and masked the reality. When it burst we started into another recession (which I sensed was really a continuation of the former. Jobs were still in China and India. And many more were going). 9/11 intensified the situation. W, new to office, with Greenspan, dropped the interest rate to almost inflationary which created the building bonanza and put millions to work in everything from construction to finance to insurance (not to mention government: building permits, sewers, schools, etc.) They even pressured the lending institutions to make home ownership more available to minorities, but I didn't know that at the time. Its possible W thought the boom would last till he was gone from office, but alas. In fact, six years ago I told coworkers what would be the outcome and that the entire charade would fall back on Fannie Mae and Freddy Mack. Now, I ask: If an economically uneducated ignoramus such as myself could see this, what are the chances of some of the highest paid economists in the world, employed by the Bush administration, not seeing it as they claim? I smell a skunk! The situation can only grow worse. Those millions the boom employed are employed no longer. My observation of the housing debacle as it unfolded (for whatever it's worth. I'm no economist and have never had the slightest interest in the subject. And I've yet to see anyone report what I saw.)

Manufacturing was fleeing the country, leaving a wake of unemployment in its path. We started into a deep recession, when the high-tech bubble took hold and masked the reality. When it burst we started into another recession (which I sensed was really a continuation of the former. Jobs were still in China and India. And many more were going). 9/11 intensified the situation. W, new to office, with Greenspan, dropped the interest rate to almost inflationary which created the building bonanza and put millions to work in everything from construction to finance to insurance (not to mention government: building permits, sewers, schools, etc.) They even pressured the lending institutions to make home ownership more available to minorities, but I didn't know that at the time. Its possible W thought the boom would last till he was gone from office, but alas. In fact, six years ago I told coworkers what would be the outcome and that the entire charade would fall back on Fannie Mae and Freddy Mack. Now, I ask: If an economically uneducated ignoramus such as myself could see this, what are the chances of some of the highest paid economists in the world, employed by the Bush administration, not seeing it as they claim? I smell a skunk! The situation can only grow worse. Those millions the boom employed are employed no longer.

]]> By: Theodore Van Oosbree http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/09/26/the-way-we-are-now%e2%80%94coming-to-a-bad-end/comment-page-1/#comment-179543 Theodore Van Oosbree Mon, 29 Sep 2008 16:41:35 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=739#comment-179543 Dear Prof. Wilson and MAP: I am puzzled that you characterize me as anti-Southern when I specifically stated that the ideology to which I objected was a country-wide phenomenon with Southerners as its principal victims. Of course, the present crisis is not the fault of any particular class or section but has multiple causes and perpetrators arising from the current degeneracy of our political and economic institutions. For instance, Mr Steve Sailer has some excellent articles on his blog about the "diversity" aspects of the current credit crisis. I commend to it to those of you who are interested in the ways ideology can cause otherwise intelligent people to endorse disastrous policies. Dear Prof. Wilson and MAP: I am puzzled that you characterize me as anti-Southern when I specifically stated that the ideology to which I objected was a country-wide phenomenon with Southerners as its principal victims. Of course, the present crisis is not the fault of any particular class or section but has multiple causes and perpetrators arising from the current degeneracy of our political and economic institutions. For instance, Mr Steve Sailer has some excellent articles on his blog about the "diversity" aspects of the current credit crisis. I commend to it to those of you who are interested in the ways ideology can cause otherwise intelligent people to endorse disastrous policies.

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