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	<title>Comments on: Who Is For the People?</title>
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	<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/09/02/who-is-for-the-people/</link>
	<description>Your home for traditional conservatism.</description>
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		<title>By: jabo37</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/09/02/who-is-for-the-people/comment-page-1/#comment-178874</link>
		<dc:creator>jabo37</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:37:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=718#comment-178874</guid>
		<description>Before this current campaign began, a poll indicated over 30% of adult Americans were ready to entertain the idea of a third party.  With the first coming of Obama, all that talk went qway.  Now the GOP has added Sarah to its ticket, and attracted many of those who were ready to bypass the election.

The biggest fault for not keeping the third party ideal alive belongs to panderers like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity, who shill unashamedly for the GOP (they may complain, but watch where they come down as election day approaches).  The greatest service those clowns could have provided is to keep harping on what they disapprove of in the GOP, and telling their listeners and viewers tht real reform has to begin with a viable third party.  

Just think, if a real choice were offered, the 30% might start to migrate toward it.  It would have a real chance, maybe not this year, but in an election cycle or two.  

But as Sean has been telling us for the last three or so elections:  This election is the most critical of our life times.  Vote for the establishment.  Well, what has that gotten us so far?  

Read the platforms of the various parties: Republican, Democratic, Green, Libertarian, and Constitution, for starters.  Vote your conscience, not for a party that has a chance.  If we&#039;d all do that, the GOP would be history in an election or two (maybe even sooner).

I&#039;m voting Constitution, but what I&#039;d really prefer is a Christian Libertarian party based on classic Catholic thinking.  Outlaw the most socially harmful actions, such as murder, theft, fraud, abortion, and the like, but tolerate most other sins as Aquinas recommended, such as prostitution (and today, drugs), not because they&#039;re less bad, but because outlawing them might cause more harm than tolerating them.  Give us a strong defense (to protect our people and borders, not to export our way of life), a sound money system for the stability it offers, and for the most part, leave us alone.  Taking care of each other is our job, not that of the Government.  

Never lose sight of the meaning of life (why we&#039;re here on earth in the first place):  to serve God in this life, and to be happy with Him forever in the next.  This is for each of us to work out for ourselves, but each of us should never lose sight of that fact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Before this current campaign began, a poll indicated over 30% of adult Americans were ready to entertain the idea of a third party.  With the first coming of Obama, all that talk went qway.  Now the GOP has added Sarah to its ticket, and attracted many of those who were ready to bypass the election.</p>
<p>The biggest fault for not keeping the third party ideal alive belongs to panderers like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity, who shill unashamedly for the GOP (they may complain, but watch where they come down as election day approaches).  The greatest service those clowns could have provided is to keep harping on what they disapprove of in the GOP, and telling their listeners and viewers tht real reform has to begin with a viable third party.  </p>
<p>Just think, if a real choice were offered, the 30% might start to migrate toward it.  It would have a real chance, maybe not this year, but in an election cycle or two.  </p>
<p>But as Sean has been telling us for the last three or so elections:  This election is the most critical of our life times.  Vote for the establishment.  Well, what has that gotten us so far?  </p>
<p>Read the platforms of the various parties: Republican, Democratic, Green, Libertarian, and Constitution, for starters.  Vote your conscience, not for a party that has a chance.  If we'd all do that, the GOP would be history in an election or two (maybe even sooner).</p>
<p>I'm voting Constitution, but what I'd really prefer is a Christian Libertarian party based on classic Catholic thinking.  Outlaw the most socially harmful actions, such as murder, theft, fraud, abortion, and the like, but tolerate most other sins as Aquinas recommended, such as prostitution (and today, drugs), not because they're less bad, but because outlawing them might cause more harm than tolerating them.  Give us a strong defense (to protect our people and borders, not to export our way of life), a sound money system for the stability it offers, and for the most part, leave us alone.  Taking care of each other is our job, not that of the Government.  </p>
<p>Never lose sight of the meaning of life (why we're here on earth in the first place):  to serve God in this life, and to be happy with Him forever in the next.  This is for each of us to work out for ourselves, but each of us should never lose sight of that fact.</p>
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		<title>By: H.F. Wolff</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/09/02/who-is-for-the-people/comment-page-1/#comment-178868</link>
		<dc:creator>H.F. Wolff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 15:24:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=718#comment-178868</guid>
		<description>#27 Livy:

Multiple &quot;say&quot; is available in Canada for municipal voting.

I don&#039;t know the exact particulars because it doesn&#039;t apply to me (I run a sole proprietorship home-based professional business),  but if I owned a commercial building in the city and a separate residence, I would be entitled to two votes I believe. ( 1 honours degree, 2 sons, 1 house &amp; shed, only small caves in the neighbourhood).

Just thinking out loud:  I wonder if this multiple vote premise could be the basis for a new political party?  Would need to find someone to finance a trial balloon.  Anybody out there with serious cash looking for a home???

H.F. Wolff</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#27 Livy:</p>
<p>Multiple "say" is available in Canada for municipal voting.</p>
<p>I don't know the exact particulars because it doesn't apply to me (I run a sole proprietorship home-based professional business),  but if I owned a commercial building in the city and a separate residence, I would be entitled to two votes I believe. ( 1 honours degree, 2 sons, 1 house &amp; shed, only small caves in the neighbourhood).</p>
<p>Just thinking out loud:  I wonder if this multiple vote premise could be the basis for a new political party?  Would need to find someone to finance a trial balloon.  Anybody out there with serious cash looking for a home???</p>
<p>H.F. Wolff</p>
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		<title>By: Livy</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/09/02/who-is-for-the-people/comment-page-1/#comment-178867</link>
		<dc:creator>Livy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 14:09:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=718#comment-178867</guid>
		<description>@26 MAP - I believe the property qualification for voting originated and existed much earlier in several different western nations, including the US, prior to the mid 19th century, after which it was abolished almost everywhere in fit of madness in favor of near-universal manhood suffrage.  

@25 H.F. Wolff - yes, the idea that most modern citizens cast meaningful votes has been rightfully questioned in many places, even the academic world.  I&#039;m not a cave dweller either - 3 kids, 2 degrees, 1 house.  Could you imagine the outrage if someone today suggested that some ordinary people might have a legitimate right to more &quot;say&quot; in decisions affecting the country&#039;s future than others?  Those outraged people are probably the ones who also want to limit campaign contributions.  

I like your idea, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@26 MAP - I believe the property qualification for voting originated and existed much earlier in several different western nations, including the US, prior to the mid 19th century, after which it was abolished almost everywhere in fit of madness in favor of near-universal manhood suffrage.  </p>
<p>@25 H.F. Wolff - yes, the idea that most modern citizens cast meaningful votes has been rightfully questioned in many places, even the academic world.  I'm not a cave dweller either - 3 kids, 2 degrees, 1 house.  Could you imagine the outrage if someone today suggested that some ordinary people might have a legitimate right to more "say" in decisions affecting the country's future than others?  Those outraged people are probably the ones who also want to limit campaign contributions.  </p>
<p>I like your idea, though.</p>
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		<title>By: MAP</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/09/02/who-is-for-the-people/comment-page-1/#comment-178865</link>
		<dc:creator>MAP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 12:00:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=718#comment-178865</guid>
		<description>H.F. Wolff, this was a contention and law of the South. But like so much else, it was overruled and the present system was imposed by those living elsewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>H.F. Wolff, this was a contention and law of the South. But like so much else, it was overruled and the present system was imposed by those living elsewhere.</p>
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		<title>By: H.F. Wolff</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/09/02/who-is-for-the-people/comment-page-1/#comment-178821</link>
		<dc:creator>H.F. Wolff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 17:44:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=718#comment-178821</guid>
		<description>#23Livy:

I like that thinking, despite the near impossibility of selling it to Joe/Jane Q. Public.

Here is an alternative, it is entitled &quot;The Seventh Vote&quot;.

While not original with me, here is the essence:

-upon reaching the age of majority the CITIZEN obtains 1 vote
-upon completing secondary education a 2. vote is awarded
-upon completion of undergraduate degree a 3. vote is earned
-upon marriage with children a 4. and 5. vote is awarded based on # of children (reduces requirements for immigrants)
-upon owning property AND paying property taxes a 6. vote is awarded
- for extraordinary service to the nation a 7. vote may be awarded by parliament

Mix and match as conditions apply or needed.

It certainly gets away from the idea that a &quot;cave&quot; dweller has the same power with his vote as a family man with an engineering degree raising 5 children and paying income, property, sales, &amp; school taxes. And later university tuition.  (a real-life case but not mine, and no, I am not the cave dweller).

Brings a whole new meaning to meritocracy, right?

H.F. Wolff</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#23Livy:</p>
<p>I like that thinking, despite the near impossibility of selling it to Joe/Jane Q. Public.</p>
<p>Here is an alternative, it is entitled "The Seventh Vote".</p>
<p>While not original with me, here is the essence:</p>
<p>-upon reaching the age of majority the CITIZEN obtains 1 vote<br />
-upon completing secondary education a 2. vote is awarded<br />
-upon completion of undergraduate degree a 3. vote is earned<br />
-upon marriage with children a 4. and 5. vote is awarded based on # of children (reduces requirements for immigrants)<br />
-upon owning property AND paying property taxes a 6. vote is awarded<br />
- for extraordinary service to the nation a 7. vote may be awarded by parliament</p>
<p>Mix and match as conditions apply or needed.</p>
<p>It certainly gets away from the idea that a "cave" dweller has the same power with his vote as a family man with an engineering degree raising 5 children and paying income, property, sales, &amp; school taxes. And later university tuition.  (a real-life case but not mine, and no, I am not the cave dweller).</p>
<p>Brings a whole new meaning to meritocracy, right?</p>
<p>H.F. Wolff</p>
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		<title>By: Livy</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/09/02/who-is-for-the-people/comment-page-1/#comment-178796</link>
		<dc:creator>Livy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 03:42:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=718#comment-178796</guid>
		<description>Too much of anything, including voting rights, is demonstrably harmful.

The idea that a person should be entitled to cast a vote for electing leaders merely because they have reached a certain biological age is about as thoughtful as the idea that society should terminate people&#039;s lives after they have reached a certain subsequent biological age (regardless of their state of health) because we all know that they&#039;re &quot;gonna die anyway&quot;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Too much of anything, including voting rights, is demonstrably harmful.</p>
<p>The idea that a person should be entitled to cast a vote for electing leaders merely because they have reached a certain biological age is about as thoughtful as the idea that society should terminate people's lives after they have reached a certain subsequent biological age (regardless of their state of health) because we all know that they're "gonna die anyway"...</p>
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		<title>By: Etienne Gervaise</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/09/02/who-is-for-the-people/comment-page-1/#comment-178743</link>
		<dc:creator>Etienne Gervaise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 11:46:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=718#comment-178743</guid>
		<description>@16 Robert
I can top that! In 1986 a woman on the Fairfax City Republican Committee proudly stated that in 1988 she would vote for George &quot;Herbert Hoover&quot; Bush because Barbara would make a lovely first lady.  And to think that women threw themselves under the king&#039;s horse to get the right to vote!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@16 Robert<br />
I can top that! In 1986 a woman on the Fairfax City Republican Committee proudly stated that in 1988 she would vote for George "Herbert Hoover" Bush because Barbara would make a lovely first lady.  And to think that women threw themselves under the king's horse to get the right to vote!</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Hill</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/09/02/who-is-for-the-people/comment-page-1/#comment-178522</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Hill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 18:23:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=718#comment-178522</guid>
		<description>The elites will not stop until they are forced to stop by equal or superior power. Do you think they would surrender power based on something as inconsequential as an election? Do you think they will listen to reason, admit that they have acted wrongly, and return power to the sovereign States and the people thereof? Not no, but hell no!

The alien class and ideology that now runs America will be stopped only when we reduce the equation to its simplest form. That is why Michael Collins is one of my heroes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The elites will not stop until they are forced to stop by equal or superior power. Do you think they would surrender power based on something as inconsequential as an election? Do you think they will listen to reason, admit that they have acted wrongly, and return power to the sovereign States and the people thereof? Not no, but hell no!</p>
<p>The alien class and ideology that now runs America will be stopped only when we reduce the equation to its simplest form. That is why Michael Collins is one of my heroes.</p>
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		<title>By: robert m. peters</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/09/02/who-is-for-the-people/comment-page-1/#comment-178499</link>
		<dc:creator>robert m. peters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 13:57:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=718#comment-178499</guid>
		<description>Last evening, I brought myself to watch Mr. McCain&#039;s speech before the GOP&#039;s national convention.

It was all there, in the speech: Lincoln&#039;s propositional nation, &quot;a city on a hill,&quot; the &quot;founding&quot; as articulated in Jefferson&#039;s decontextualized &quot;...endowed by our Creator ....,&quot; the ghost of Reagan - the entire fable or fiction.

From my humble perspective, McCain recast the GOP in his image.  He is now the GOP and that which is not he is not the GOP - at the very least for public consumption.  He and his stalking horse, Mrs. Palin, are coming to Washington.  The effects of Mrs. Palin are actually quite interesting.  No few folks in my circle of acquaintances, although they have been suckered time and again to vote GOP, have been wary of McCain, not unlike ducks, to stay with the stalking horse metaphor, which are apprehensive at the approach of some menacing  figure; however, with Mrs. Palin has quelled their apprehensions. Foolish ducks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Last evening, I brought myself to watch Mr. McCain's speech before the GOP's national convention.</p>
<p>It was all there, in the speech: Lincoln's propositional nation, "a city on a hill," the "founding" as articulated in Jefferson's decontextualized "...endowed by our Creator ....," the ghost of Reagan - the entire fable or fiction.</p>
<p>From my humble perspective, McCain recast the GOP in his image.  He is now the GOP and that which is not he is not the GOP - at the very least for public consumption.  He and his stalking horse, Mrs. Palin, are coming to Washington.  The effects of Mrs. Palin are actually quite interesting.  No few folks in my circle of acquaintances, although they have been suckered time and again to vote GOP, have been wary of McCain, not unlike ducks, to stay with the stalking horse metaphor, which are apprehensive at the approach of some menacing  figure; however, with Mrs. Palin has quelled their apprehensions. Foolish ducks!</p>
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		<title>By: MAP</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/09/02/who-is-for-the-people/comment-page-1/#comment-178496</link>
		<dc:creator>MAP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:41:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=718#comment-178496</guid>
		<description>Last I heard, only about 1/3 of the population votes. The rest are simply too frustrated, dismayed and disillusioned to bother. And this is the system we will bring to the globe, by force if necessary? It seems a fact of human nature that those caught up in abstract idiotology see success where there is only failure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Last I heard, only about 1/3 of the population votes. The rest are simply too frustrated, dismayed and disillusioned to bother. And this is the system we will bring to the globe, by force if necessary? It seems a fact of human nature that those caught up in abstract idiotology see success where there is only failure.</p>
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