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	<title>Comments on: David Frum Blames America First</title>
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	<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/08/22/david-frum-blames-america-first/</link>
	<description>Your home for traditional conservatism.</description>
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		<title>By: Theodore Van Oosbree</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/08/22/david-frum-blames-america-first/comment-page-1/#comment-177946</link>
		<dc:creator>Theodore Van Oosbree</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 18:37:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=713#comment-177946</guid>
		<description>Jefferson could not have been an ACLU type (since the organization would not exist for another 100 or so years after his death) but he sure did like those French Jacobins! Compared to them, the ACLU is a benign fraternal organization.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jefferson could not have been an ACLU type (since the organization would not exist for another 100 or so years after his death) but he sure did like those French Jacobins! Compared to them, the ACLU is a benign fraternal organization.</p>
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		<title>By: Akira</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/08/22/david-frum-blames-america-first/comment-page-1/#comment-177890</link>
		<dc:creator>Akira</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 11:14:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=713#comment-177890</guid>
		<description>Little known fact: George Washington was a free-trader. His ambassador to the UN was a big WTO supporter.

Out of curiosity, does Frum have a position on the War on Serbs? His country also fought for the Bosnian and Kosovan Jihads.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Little known fact: George Washington was a free-trader. His ambassador to the UN was a big WTO supporter.</p>
<p>Out of curiosity, does Frum have a position on the War on Serbs? His country also fought for the Bosnian and Kosovan Jihads.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean Scallon</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/08/22/david-frum-blames-america-first/comment-page-1/#comment-177883</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean Scallon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 04:01:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=713#comment-177883</guid>
		<description>My how these Canadians wish us to fight their battles for them...Oh wait a minute we&#039;re talking about David Frum, not Stephen Harper. Perhaps we should put him in a special catagory along with Richard Perle, Conrad Black, Brian Mulroney, Barbara Amiel and Mark Steyn as the &quot;Citizens of Neocon World.&quot; That will entitle them to their own passports.

Theodore Rosoevelt couldn&#039;t win the GOP nomination in 1912 or 1916, so why anyone thinks we could have won it in 1920 even if he was still fit and fiddle is beyond me. His was a nationalist opposition to the Treaty of Versaillies and the League of Nations, not patriotic one. The candidate whom GOP voters in 1920 turned to were not Roosevelt clones like Leonard Wood or Hiram Johnson, it was to a simple, homespun man from Marion, Ohio, Warren Harding. He was nominated and elected because who he has and what he stood for represented the mood of the voters and represented the mood of the times. 

I&#039;m sorry that Mr. Frum feels as though the American voter let him and friends down back in 1920 but as per usual, it wasn&#039;t them who&#039;s sons died on the battlefield in useless war or will still stationed in Russia at that wars end or who helped spread the Spanish flu epidemic of 1919. Americans had their fill of parades and glorious war and progressive golden ages that led to inflation, rationing and prison for those who dissented. They wanted normalcy and they got it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My how these Canadians wish us to fight their battles for them...Oh wait a minute we're talking about David Frum, not Stephen Harper. Perhaps we should put him in a special catagory along with Richard Perle, Conrad Black, Brian Mulroney, Barbara Amiel and Mark Steyn as the "Citizens of Neocon World." That will entitle them to their own passports.</p>
<p>Theodore Rosoevelt couldn't win the GOP nomination in 1912 or 1916, so why anyone thinks we could have won it in 1920 even if he was still fit and fiddle is beyond me. His was a nationalist opposition to the Treaty of Versaillies and the League of Nations, not patriotic one. The candidate whom GOP voters in 1920 turned to were not Roosevelt clones like Leonard Wood or Hiram Johnson, it was to a simple, homespun man from Marion, Ohio, Warren Harding. He was nominated and elected because who he has and what he stood for represented the mood of the voters and represented the mood of the times. </p>
<p>I'm sorry that Mr. Frum feels as though the American voter let him and friends down back in 1920 but as per usual, it wasn't them who's sons died on the battlefield in useless war or will still stationed in Russia at that wars end or who helped spread the Spanish flu epidemic of 1919. Americans had their fill of parades and glorious war and progressive golden ages that led to inflation, rationing and prison for those who dissented. They wanted normalcy and they got it.</p>
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		<title>By: polemicscat</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/08/22/david-frum-blames-america-first/comment-page-1/#comment-177879</link>
		<dc:creator>polemicscat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 02:07:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=713#comment-177879</guid>
		<description>It is risky to put forward a single cause for the Second World War.  Interesting questions associated with that War are , Did the U. S. have to get involved?  and How did we get involved?

FDR wanted to help the British, but many Americans including  Charles Lindberg thought we should stay out of it.  Roosevelt also didn&#039;t like the way Japan was throwing its weight around in Asia.  And it appears that FDR wanted to use Japan as a way to put Americans into a belligerent frame of mind and he cut off supplies of iron and other material we were shipping to Japan and set up our forces at Pearl Harbor. 

FDR also surreptitiously approved the American Volunteer Group and sent them to defend China before the attack on Pearl Harbor.
But the Japanese knew it was happening.

In hindsight we can also say that at the close of WWI we made humiliating demands on Germany and then didn&#039;t enforce them when Hitler came to power and ignored the limits set on how much of a military Germany would be allowed.  

So there is a lot of blame to go around.

Actually our &quot;nation building&quot; --- or I should say &quot;democracy-building&quot; worked rather well at the end of WWII.  McArthur designed a pretty good constitution for Japan and under our guidance West Germany developed a working democracy.  If we had just walked away after the War,  that would have produced a catastrophe.  So the &quot;Marshall Plan&quot; deserves credit for helping to bring Europe back to a functioning civilization.

Maybe Bush II has better intentions than he has been given credit for.  I know---  &quot;The road to hell is paved. . . .&quot;  Certainly he and his advisors have misunderstood the motives and tenets of Islam and consequently misnamed this war we are in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is risky to put forward a single cause for the Second World War.  Interesting questions associated with that War are , Did the U. S. have to get involved?  and How did we get involved?</p>
<p>FDR wanted to help the British, but many Americans including  Charles Lindberg thought we should stay out of it.  Roosevelt also didn't like the way Japan was throwing its weight around in Asia.  And it appears that FDR wanted to use Japan as a way to put Americans into a belligerent frame of mind and he cut off supplies of iron and other material we were shipping to Japan and set up our forces at Pearl Harbor. </p>
<p>FDR also surreptitiously approved the American Volunteer Group and sent them to defend China before the attack on Pearl Harbor.<br />
But the Japanese knew it was happening.</p>
<p>In hindsight we can also say that at the close of WWI we made humiliating demands on Germany and then didn't enforce them when Hitler came to power and ignored the limits set on how much of a military Germany would be allowed.  </p>
<p>So there is a lot of blame to go around.</p>
<p>Actually our "nation building" --- or I should say "democracy-building" worked rather well at the end of WWII.  McArthur designed a pretty good constitution for Japan and under our guidance West Germany developed a working democracy.  If we had just walked away after the War,  that would have produced a catastrophe.  So the "Marshall Plan" deserves credit for helping to bring Europe back to a functioning civilization.</p>
<p>Maybe Bush II has better intentions than he has been given credit for.  I know---  "The road to hell is paved. . . ."  Certainly he and his advisors have misunderstood the motives and tenets of Islam and consequently misnamed this war we are in.</p>
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		<title>By: james</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/08/22/david-frum-blames-america-first/comment-page-1/#comment-177865</link>
		<dc:creator>james</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Aug 2008 21:02:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=713#comment-177865</guid>
		<description>@20John Willson

Does nobody find it interesting that a former Trotskyite communist is now interested in free trade?

Frum on BBC&#039;s Question Time leading up to the war in Iraq stated that France and Russia supplied Saddam with chemical and biological weapons not the US although a congressional investigation in the early 90’s confirmed that the US did give him chemical and biological weapons to fight Iran.
Russia or the USSR only supplied him with conventional weapons.

But the main point of Frum and these other Neocons is whose interests are they perusing the US or another foreign body and why are they willing to shed US blood and money to do it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@20John Willson</p>
<p>Does nobody find it interesting that a former Trotskyite communist is now interested in free trade?</p>
<p>Frum on BBC's Question Time leading up to the war in Iraq stated that France and Russia supplied Saddam with chemical and biological weapons not the US although a congressional investigation in the early 90’s confirmed that the US did give him chemical and biological weapons to fight Iran.<br />
Russia or the USSR only supplied him with conventional weapons.</p>
<p>But the main point of Frum and these other Neocons is whose interests are they perusing the US or another foreign body and why are they willing to shed US blood and money to do it?</p>
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		<title>By: John Willson</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/08/22/david-frum-blames-america-first/comment-page-1/#comment-177864</link>
		<dc:creator>John Willson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Aug 2008 20:37:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=713#comment-177864</guid>
		<description>Once again Tom exposes neocon rewriting of history, although I think that Frummie may be too easy a target.  After his &quot;unpatriotic conservatives&quot; piece who can really take him seriously?  The real service this essay of Tom&#039;s gives us is a reminder that the so-called &quot;big government&quot; conservatives, or &quot;national greatness&quot; conservatives, are all progressive frauds. Thanks again, Tom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once again Tom exposes neocon rewriting of history, although I think that Frummie may be too easy a target.  After his "unpatriotic conservatives" piece who can really take him seriously?  The real service this essay of Tom's gives us is a reminder that the so-called "big government" conservatives, or "national greatness" conservatives, are all progressive frauds. Thanks again, Tom.</p>
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		<title>By: M.J.Harrington</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/08/22/david-frum-blames-america-first/comment-page-1/#comment-177860</link>
		<dc:creator>M.J.Harrington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Aug 2008 18:36:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=713#comment-177860</guid>
		<description>If you compare Eisenhower to some ideal conservative President who does not exist , then he will fall short by a long way. However, if you compare him to the actual presidents of his own era, say from Truman to Carter, then I think he looks reasonable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you compare Eisenhower to some ideal conservative President who does not exist , then he will fall short by a long way. However, if you compare him to the actual presidents of his own era, say from Truman to Carter, then I think he looks reasonable.</p>
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		<title>By: MGB</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/08/22/david-frum-blames-america-first/comment-page-1/#comment-177833</link>
		<dc:creator>MGB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 20:31:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=713#comment-177833</guid>
		<description>Yes, Frum was born in Canada.  There is no better argument for a complete moratorium on immigration to the US.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Frum was born in Canada.  There is no better argument for a complete moratorium on immigration to the US.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Miller</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/08/22/david-frum-blames-america-first/comment-page-1/#comment-177806</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 15:10:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=713#comment-177806</guid>
		<description>&quot;I personally don’t believe in economic absolutes - neither absolute protectionism nor absolute free trade.&quot;

Very good point, Mr. Collins

Most trade policy realists aren&#039;t asking for Free Trade to be completely abandoned. They simply wish our trade policy was more pragmatic, like other developed countries.

For instance, what is the good of having &quot;Free Trade Zones&quot; when goods originating from countries outside that zone have little or no duties imposed on them? 

Wouldn&#039;t it make more sense to limit imports to industies not in the vital national interest, and to countries which it is in our interest to help develop economically (Mexico, but not China, for example)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"I personally don’t believe in economic absolutes - neither absolute protectionism nor absolute free trade."</p>
<p>Very good point, Mr. Collins</p>
<p>Most trade policy realists aren't asking for Free Trade to be completely abandoned. They simply wish our trade policy was more pragmatic, like other developed countries.</p>
<p>For instance, what is the good of having "Free Trade Zones" when goods originating from countries outside that zone have little or no duties imposed on them? </p>
<p>Wouldn't it make more sense to limit imports to industies not in the vital national interest, and to countries which it is in our interest to help develop economically (Mexico, but not China, for example)?</p>
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		<title>By: pablo H</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/08/22/david-frum-blames-america-first/comment-page-1/#comment-177805</link>
		<dc:creator>pablo H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 14:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=713#comment-177805</guid>
		<description>&quot;We wish to control big business so as to secure among other things good wages for the wage-workers and reasonable prices for the consumers. Wherever in any business the prosperity of the businessman is obtained by lowering the wages of his workmen and charging an excessive price to the consumers we wish to interfere and stop such practices. We will not submit to that kind of prosperity any more than we will submit to prosperity obtained by swindling investors or getting unfair advantages over business rival&quot;

Looks like Frum would have called T.R. a socialist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"We wish to control big business so as to secure among other things good wages for the wage-workers and reasonable prices for the consumers. Wherever in any business the prosperity of the businessman is obtained by lowering the wages of his workmen and charging an excessive price to the consumers we wish to interfere and stop such practices. We will not submit to that kind of prosperity any more than we will submit to prosperity obtained by swindling investors or getting unfair advantages over business rival"</p>
<p>Looks like Frum would have called T.R. a socialist.</p>
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