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	<title>Comments on: Papismo Pickwickiano</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/08/05/papismo-pickwickiano/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/08/05/papismo-pickwickiano/</link>
	<description>Your home for traditional conservatism.</description>
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		<title>By: TJF</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/08/05/papismo-pickwickiano/comment-page-1/#comment-174170</link>
		<dc:creator>TJF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:22:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=685#comment-174170</guid>
		<description>The computer glitched.  I introduced the above message with the statement that I had received an email from a subscriber who made a somewhat tongue-in-cheek complaint against the use of Spanish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The computer glitched.  I introduced the above message with the statement that I had received an email from a subscriber who made a somewhat tongue-in-cheek complaint against the use of Spanish.</p>
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		<title>By: TJF</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/08/05/papismo-pickwickiano/comment-page-1/#comment-174166</link>
		<dc:creator>TJF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 13:43:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=685#comment-174166</guid>
		<description>Because it is too difficult to follow four threads, I am closing this discussion and referring commenters to my most recent piece on immigration.  To respond to Michigander I would say, 1) From your perspective it is absolutely necessary to learn Spanish if only to combat your perceived enemies, and 2) only a tiny fraction of Spanish-speakers, nearly all of them illiterate, are invading our country.  As a self-described white nationalist commented on one of these threads, you should be seeking alliances with other European peoples.  Perhaps you are unaware that Chile and Argentina are about 90% European--in contrast with the US.  Enough of these stupidaggini.  I know most of you mean well, but you will only begin to grow up by listening to men who are older, more learned, and wiser.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because it is too difficult to follow four threads, I am closing this discussion and referring commenters to my most recent piece on immigration.  To respond to Michigander I would say, 1) From your perspective it is absolutely necessary to learn Spanish if only to combat your perceived enemies, and 2) only a tiny fraction of Spanish-speakers, nearly all of them illiterate, are invading our country.  As a self-described white nationalist commented on one of these threads, you should be seeking alliances with other European peoples.  Perhaps you are unaware that Chile and Argentina are about 90% European--in contrast with the US.  Enough of these stupidaggini.  I know most of you mean well, but you will only begin to grow up by listening to men who are older, more learned, and wiser.</p>
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		<title>By: michigander</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/08/05/papismo-pickwickiano/comment-page-1/#comment-174069</link>
		<dc:creator>michigander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 23:42:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=685#comment-174069</guid>
		<description>The symbolism of this is simply terrible.  Chronicles was among the first to note the immigration invasion and has now, in effect, buckled to it by publishing in the language of the invaders.  Add to that the gratuitous comment by Scott Richert about dummy white nationalists and we have a sorry spectacle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The symbolism of this is simply terrible.  Chronicles was among the first to note the immigration invasion and has now, in effect, buckled to it by publishing in the language of the invaders.  Add to that the gratuitous comment by Scott Richert about dummy white nationalists and we have a sorry spectacle.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Brooks</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/08/05/papismo-pickwickiano/comment-page-1/#comment-173981</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Brooks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:42:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=685#comment-173981</guid>
		<description>This came in an email.  

Dear Dr. Fleming,

As a bilingual American, and an avid reader of Chronicles, I sincerely think that some of your e-mail correspondents are perhaps a bit too alarmed that some Chronicles articles will be appearing in Spanish. I read one correspondent express his fear that this initiative could entice foreigners to attempt to enter the US. Dr. Fleming, I feel very silly indeed to have to waste your time with this response, but not everybody sees things as clearly as you do, and there may possibly be people who believe that in doing this, Chronicles is opening some type of Pandora&#039;s box. Therefore, Dr. Fleming, I am really addressing these fearful readers, not you. 

I find it hard to suppress laugher when I think of the following scenario: a Honduran Indian barely eking out a living, who, after a long day at work, about 14 hours long, in fact, relaxes in his hut, aguardiente in hand and, logically, plugs in his computer and logs onto Chronicles On Line, as, obviously, he is wont to do. Lo and behold, he sees an article in Spanish, almost certainly written at a level somewhat beyond the comprehension of one such as he, with a mere 3 or 4 years of schooling at peasant schoolhouses in the impoverished Honduran countryside. He will, however, catch enough Spanish to read about Sartre, Herodotus, Albert Camus and the Iliad, and that will do it for him: he is going to move to the States. People he associates with do not talk about these subjects, but the Americans at Chronicles do, so it&#039;s swimming the Rio Grande for him. 



Of course, the article speaks clearly of the very many things that have gone wrong in America: the school murders, the soul-less people walking around with war-grade weaponry and high-powered ammunition, who are mentally defective because, among other things, &quot;America made them that way&quot;. Yes, this will attract them, all right. This is where they always wanted to be. This is living life to the fullest, and they want to be a part of it. He and his 4 or 5 peasant friends will puzzle over most of the article, and since there is likely not to exist one Spanish dictionary between them, they will guess that dire scenes of school massacres and lunatics killing people due to their alienation, a word which they certainly will not understand, paint an attractive picture of the U.S.  So in about two weeks&#039; time they will be making that swim across the Rio Grande.

	
When Dr. Fleming discussed King Priam and Achilles (and he does it in Spanish), that&#039;ll put those peasants in a frenzy. But when Joseph Sobran, once again in Spanish, discusses koine Greek, that&#039;ll be the last straw, driving thousands of crazed peasants to the Rio Grande like packs of rabid dogs to a source of water. I can see it all now.



The chances of this happening are rather low. In fact, I would put them right at absolute zero. More likely it would be that Chronicles in Spanish would reach the only audience capable of comprehending the Spanish language employed at this level, namely, the college-educated upper and middle classes of Latin America and Spain. (I will make a bet: New Mexico&#039;s governor Bill Richardson would probably have to take a Spanish dictionary to plough through it; and I don&#039;t think I would lose that bet). The immense majority of the people meeting this description will stay put in their own countries, as they have no reason to leave. There will, however, be some type of bond established between Chronicles and other conservatives out there who, by reading Chronicles, can see something applicable to their own situations, and if worst comes to worst, and an Argentine  gastroenterologist decides that, after all, America is the place for him, because people like Thomas Fleming exist, what we would be getting (because the Argentinian MD gastroenteologist will certainly find a job), would be a doctor, probably a Christian, as most Chronicles readers probably are, who would make a valuable contribution to the USA, since doctors are always needed. If we must have immigrants, isn&#039;t this precisely the type we should attract? The Argentinian doctor in question will certainly enter the US in the manner prescribed by law, as he should. We need not fear any case of this sort, and would that all our immigrants were similarly qualified.


It also looks better for Chronicles to reach an educated audience speaking European languages. Chronicles already has a lot of class, but this will give it a wee bit more.


But, returning to your original fears, no poor peasant or drug smuggler or deadbeat from Latin America is likely to be a Chronicles reader -- in any language.



As to all you dudes out there in Honduras land, you by now doubtless will have picked up from this missive that I&#039;ve made some booboos in English. You got it. This is another reason why you shouldn&#039;t come over and jump our barb-wire fences. This shows that our educational system ain&#039;t worth a hill of the coffee beans you guys once produced. Look at my American English and weep. As to those of you who have already jumped our fences, &quot;abandon hope, all you who enter here.&quot; (I got that wrong too, didn&#039;t I?) If it&#039;s an education you want, stay in your sodden huts, &#039;coz if this be your goal, upon entering this sorry land you will find naught but weeping and gnashing of teeth.


						Fred Brooks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This came in an email.  </p>
<p>Dear Dr. Fleming,</p>
<p>As a bilingual American, and an avid reader of Chronicles, I sincerely think that some of your e-mail correspondents are perhaps a bit too alarmed that some Chronicles articles will be appearing in Spanish. I read one correspondent express his fear that this initiative could entice foreigners to attempt to enter the US. Dr. Fleming, I feel very silly indeed to have to waste your time with this response, but not everybody sees things as clearly as you do, and there may possibly be people who believe that in doing this, Chronicles is opening some type of Pandora's box. Therefore, Dr. Fleming, I am really addressing these fearful readers, not you. </p>
<p>I find it hard to suppress laugher when I think of the following scenario: a Honduran Indian barely eking out a living, who, after a long day at work, about 14 hours long, in fact, relaxes in his hut, aguardiente in hand and, logically, plugs in his computer and logs onto Chronicles On Line, as, obviously, he is wont to do. Lo and behold, he sees an article in Spanish, almost certainly written at a level somewhat beyond the comprehension of one such as he, with a mere 3 or 4 years of schooling at peasant schoolhouses in the impoverished Honduran countryside. He will, however, catch enough Spanish to read about Sartre, Herodotus, Albert Camus and the Iliad, and that will do it for him: he is going to move to the States. People he associates with do not talk about these subjects, but the Americans at Chronicles do, so it's swimming the Rio Grande for him. </p>
<p>Of course, the article speaks clearly of the very many things that have gone wrong in America: the school murders, the soul-less people walking around with war-grade weaponry and high-powered ammunition, who are mentally defective because, among other things, "America made them that way". Yes, this will attract them, all right. This is where they always wanted to be. This is living life to the fullest, and they want to be a part of it. He and his 4 or 5 peasant friends will puzzle over most of the article, and since there is likely not to exist one Spanish dictionary between them, they will guess that dire scenes of school massacres and lunatics killing people due to their alienation, a word which they certainly will not understand, paint an attractive picture of the U.S.  So in about two weeks' time they will be making that swim across the Rio Grande.</p>
<p>When Dr. Fleming discussed King Priam and Achilles (and he does it in Spanish), that'll put those peasants in a frenzy. But when Joseph Sobran, once again in Spanish, discusses koine Greek, that'll be the last straw, driving thousands of crazed peasants to the Rio Grande like packs of rabid dogs to a source of water. I can see it all now.</p>
<p>The chances of this happening are rather low. In fact, I would put them right at absolute zero. More likely it would be that Chronicles in Spanish would reach the only audience capable of comprehending the Spanish language employed at this level, namely, the college-educated upper and middle classes of Latin America and Spain. (I will make a bet: New Mexico's governor Bill Richardson would probably have to take a Spanish dictionary to plough through it; and I don't think I would lose that bet). The immense majority of the people meeting this description will stay put in their own countries, as they have no reason to leave. There will, however, be some type of bond established between Chronicles and other conservatives out there who, by reading Chronicles, can see something applicable to their own situations, and if worst comes to worst, and an Argentine  gastroenterologist decides that, after all, America is the place for him, because people like Thomas Fleming exist, what we would be getting (because the Argentinian MD gastroenteologist will certainly find a job), would be a doctor, probably a Christian, as most Chronicles readers probably are, who would make a valuable contribution to the USA, since doctors are always needed. If we must have immigrants, isn't this precisely the type we should attract? The Argentinian doctor in question will certainly enter the US in the manner prescribed by law, as he should. We need not fear any case of this sort, and would that all our immigrants were similarly qualified.</p>
<p>It also looks better for Chronicles to reach an educated audience speaking European languages. Chronicles already has a lot of class, but this will give it a wee bit more.</p>
<p>But, returning to your original fears, no poor peasant or drug smuggler or deadbeat from Latin America is likely to be a Chronicles reader -- in any language.</p>
<p>As to all you dudes out there in Honduras land, you by now doubtless will have picked up from this missive that I've made some booboos in English. You got it. This is another reason why you shouldn't come over and jump our barb-wire fences. This shows that our educational system ain't worth a hill of the coffee beans you guys once produced. Look at my American English and weep. As to those of you who have already jumped our fences, "abandon hope, all you who enter here." (I got that wrong too, didn't I?) If it's an education you want, stay in your sodden huts, 'coz if this be your goal, upon entering this sorry land you will find naught but weeping and gnashing of teeth.</p>
<p>						Fred Brooks</p>
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		<title>By: TJF</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/08/05/papismo-pickwickiano/comment-page-1/#comment-173963</link>
		<dc:creator>TJF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:31:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=685#comment-173963</guid>
		<description>Chronicles takes a firm stand against illegal immigration and against open borders. That is why we spent two years putting out a book calling for severe restrictions on immigration.   This, however, has nothing to do with white nationalism or contempt for the cultures of Spanish-speaking cultures.  Years ago, when we were giving prestigious literary prizes, three of them went to Latin-American authors: Jorge Borges, Octavio Paz, and Mario Vargas-Llosa.  Spanish is a major European language spoken as a first language by about as many people who use English as a first language.  Why in the world would we not wish to reach intelligent readers in places like Uruguay or Spain?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chronicles takes a firm stand against illegal immigration and against open borders. That is why we spent two years putting out a book calling for severe restrictions on immigration.   This, however, has nothing to do with white nationalism or contempt for the cultures of Spanish-speaking cultures.  Years ago, when we were giving prestigious literary prizes, three of them went to Latin-American authors: Jorge Borges, Octavio Paz, and Mario Vargas-Llosa.  Spanish is a major European language spoken as a first language by about as many people who use English as a first language.  Why in the world would we not wish to reach intelligent readers in places like Uruguay or Spain?</p>
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		<title>By: whatwemaybe</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/08/05/papismo-pickwickiano/comment-page-1/#comment-173938</link>
		<dc:creator>whatwemaybe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 13:49:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=685#comment-173938</guid>
		<description>Is this a joke? If not, and the reason this is in Spanish is because Spain, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina are white countries, then why not translate it in German, Russian and Arabic to reach even more readers? I though this magazine was paleoconservat1ive white nationalist who resent that Mexicans, Puerto Ricans and Dominicans refuse to learn English, so I am confused.

I personally don&#039;t mind the Spanish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is this a joke? If not, and the reason this is in Spanish is because Spain, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina are white countries, then why not translate it in German, Russian and Arabic to reach even more readers? I though this magazine was paleoconservat1ive white nationalist who resent that Mexicans, Puerto Ricans and Dominicans refuse to learn English, so I am confused.</p>
<p>I personally don't mind the Spanish.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron D. Wolf</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/08/05/papismo-pickwickiano/comment-page-1/#comment-173681</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron D. Wolf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:03:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=685#comment-173681</guid>
		<description>¡Usted recibirá ningún argumento de mí, gruñón! Sin embargo, yo sólo soy un hombre. Y el Sr Richert y yo estamos tratando de terminar la edición de Septiembre. ¡Un servicio para el que hemos pagado los abonados! ¡Gracias, gruñón!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>¡Usted recibirá ningún argumento de mí, gruñón! Sin embargo, yo sólo soy un hombre. Y el Sr Richert y yo estamos tratando de terminar la edición de Septiembre. ¡Un servicio para el que hemos pagado los abonados! ¡Gracias, gruñón!</p>
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		<title>By: Grumpy Old Man</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/08/05/papismo-pickwickiano/comment-page-1/#comment-173680</link>
		<dc:creator>Grumpy Old Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 21:36:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=685#comment-173680</guid>
		<description>¿No sería mejor poner estas traducciones en español en un segundo blog? Son útiles, mas tendrían mejor recepción en su próprio lugar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>¿No sería mejor poner estas traducciones en español en un segundo blog? Son útiles, mas tendrían mejor recepción en su próprio lugar.</p>
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