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	<title>Comments on: Niñatos Bestias</title>
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	<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/07/30/ninatos-bestias/</link>
	<description>Your home for traditional conservatism.</description>
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		<title>By: TJF</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/07/30/ninatos-bestias/comment-page-1/#comment-173337</link>
		<dc:creator>TJF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 14:14:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=680#comment-173337</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t recall inviting PcH to address me by my first name, and it is unlikely that I would give such permission to an obvious liar who refuses to follow an argument.  I do not recommend any plan because I regard the ethnic situation--like the cultural, moral, and spiritual situations--in this country as beyond all hope of remedy.  I am shutting down this discussion but I will post some or all of my contribution to our book on immigration on this site. 

My basic argument in that book is:  1) when two peoples coexist in the same habitat or nation, it is more likely that they will  influence each other than that one will force the other to assimilate.  2)  Creative assimilation can take place but only when one culture is more advanced and more assured than the other.  In the case of the USA, the Mexicans have a deeper sense of identity than Americans who long ago embarked on a process of self-destruction, as evinced by the civil rights revolution, multi-culturalism, anti-Christianism,  and open immigration.  The problem does not lie in poor Mexicans who come here seeking jobs, welfare, and opportunities for criminal behavior, but in ourselves that we are so weak, stupid, and suicidal. 

It is pointless to recommend policies to a nation bent on self-destruction, but a process of expulsion and/or separation would not be at all impossible.  The process would take place in 1) enforcing existing laws rigorously and passing stiffer laws with very stiff quotas and restrictions, 2) a steady push of illegals out of their havens outside the SW and a no-nonsense policy of expelling every alien, legal or not, who is convicted of a felony.  3) a plan to take back, city by city and state by state, the regions of the US and, if the whole is impossible, then cut off Mexified states from the Union.  But why go on?  No one in a leadership position in either party is willing to entertain, even for a minute, the end of existing policies that punish European-Americans and demonize their heritage.  Whining does not get you anywhere nor does shouting &quot;radical&quot; slogans  at the top of your lungs.  To the extent that we here at the magazine have the resources to do anything, it is to educate some younger Americans into what they have been deprived of and to expose the logic that makes them victims.  Any call to direct action, when the overwhelming majority of the population is opposed, is tantamount to terrorism.  The end.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don't recall inviting PcH to address me by my first name, and it is unlikely that I would give such permission to an obvious liar who refuses to follow an argument.  I do not recommend any plan because I regard the ethnic situation--like the cultural, moral, and spiritual situations--in this country as beyond all hope of remedy.  I am shutting down this discussion but I will post some or all of my contribution to our book on immigration on this site. </p>
<p>My basic argument in that book is:  1) when two peoples coexist in the same habitat or nation, it is more likely that they will  influence each other than that one will force the other to assimilate.  2)  Creative assimilation can take place but only when one culture is more advanced and more assured than the other.  In the case of the USA, the Mexicans have a deeper sense of identity than Americans who long ago embarked on a process of self-destruction, as evinced by the civil rights revolution, multi-culturalism, anti-Christianism,  and open immigration.  The problem does not lie in poor Mexicans who come here seeking jobs, welfare, and opportunities for criminal behavior, but in ourselves that we are so weak, stupid, and suicidal. </p>
<p>It is pointless to recommend policies to a nation bent on self-destruction, but a process of expulsion and/or separation would not be at all impossible.  The process would take place in 1) enforcing existing laws rigorously and passing stiffer laws with very stiff quotas and restrictions, 2) a steady push of illegals out of their havens outside the SW and a no-nonsense policy of expelling every alien, legal or not, who is convicted of a felony.  3) a plan to take back, city by city and state by state, the regions of the US and, if the whole is impossible, then cut off Mexified states from the Union.  But why go on?  No one in a leadership position in either party is willing to entertain, even for a minute, the end of existing policies that punish European-Americans and demonize their heritage.  Whining does not get you anywhere nor does shouting "radical" slogans  at the top of your lungs.  To the extent that we here at the magazine have the resources to do anything, it is to educate some younger Americans into what they have been deprived of and to expose the logic that makes them victims.  Any call to direct action, when the overwhelming majority of the population is opposed, is tantamount to terrorism.  The end.</p>
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		<title>By: D Simmons</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/07/30/ninatos-bestias/comment-page-1/#comment-173334</link>
		<dc:creator>D Simmons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:56:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=680#comment-173334</guid>
		<description>TJF is anything but a radical.  If he wants to import and impose the &quot;assimilationist&quot; argument to what is left of America then let him defend it, but I think what constitutes Central and South America would plainly refute the Spanish experience in colonizing experiments.  Some years ago at a small TRI function I met Mr. Williamson and he remarked that he was moving to New Mexico from Wyoming and I thought to myself he won&#039;t last and he did not.  It is one thing to play prophet of defeat it is another to actually have to go and live amongst the conqueror, even liberals in their most sado-masochistic go back to their gated guarded ghettoes at the end of the day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TJF is anything but a radical.  If he wants to import and impose the "assimilationist" argument to what is left of America then let him defend it, but I think what constitutes Central and South America would plainly refute the Spanish experience in colonizing experiments.  Some years ago at a small TRI function I met Mr. Williamson and he remarked that he was moving to New Mexico from Wyoming and I thought to myself he won't last and he did not.  It is one thing to play prophet of defeat it is another to actually have to go and live amongst the conqueror, even liberals in their most sado-masochistic go back to their gated guarded ghettoes at the end of the day.</p>
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		<title>By: PcH</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/07/30/ninatos-bestias/comment-page-1/#comment-173332</link>
		<dc:creator>PcH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:21:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=680#comment-173332</guid>
		<description>The good news is that perhaps more than 85% of the US population is against immigration.  Not only are genuine conservatives such as &lt;b&gt;Clyde Wilson, Paul Craig Roberts, Patrick Buchanan,&lt;/b&gt; and &lt;b&gt;Joseph Sobran&lt;/b&gt; completely against it, but even neocon talk show hosts such as Sean Hannity are against as well as a majority of the Left.

Immigration is a litmus test between the mainstream Left and the radical Left.

Since Tom Fleming has come out of the closet as a &lt;b&gt;radical assimilationist&lt;/b&gt; in full support of the invasion, this puts him in company with the radical left.

Tom cannot remove what he has already posted.  He has published an article in Spanish which he indicates is for the exclusive benefit of the criminal aliens.  He openly admits that the genocidal invasion is a good thing and compares it with Greece and Rome.

He even uses Lincolnian arguments of the &lt;b&gt;propositional state&lt;/b&gt; to back himself up.

Tom Fleming is a radical Leftist.

I call for his immediate resignation from Chronicles and his shunning by the conservative movement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The good news is that perhaps more than 85% of the US population is against immigration.  Not only are genuine conservatives such as <b>Clyde Wilson, Paul Craig Roberts, Patrick Buchanan,</b> and <b>Joseph Sobran</b> completely against it, but even neocon talk show hosts such as Sean Hannity are against as well as a majority of the Left.</p>
<p>Immigration is a litmus test between the mainstream Left and the radical Left.</p>
<p>Since Tom Fleming has come out of the closet as a <b>radical assimilationist</b> in full support of the invasion, this puts him in company with the radical left.</p>
<p>Tom cannot remove what he has already posted.  He has published an article in Spanish which he indicates is for the exclusive benefit of the criminal aliens.  He openly admits that the genocidal invasion is a good thing and compares it with Greece and Rome.</p>
<p>He even uses Lincolnian arguments of the <b>propositional state</b> to back himself up.</p>
<p>Tom Fleming is a radical Leftist.</p>
<p>I call for his immediate resignation from Chronicles and his shunning by the conservative movement.</p>
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		<title>By: PcH</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/07/30/ninatos-bestias/comment-page-1/#comment-173330</link>
		<dc:creator>PcH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:08:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=680#comment-173330</guid>
		<description>Ronduck-

Growth rate USA, since 1965:  0

Population USA, 1965:  200,000,000
Population USA, 2008:  305,000,000
_________________________________
Total from alien invasion:  105,000,000

Population USA, 2007:  301,000,000
Current invasion rate:  4,000,000/year and exponential (in other words, 2009&#039;s rate could be 8,000,000 and 2010&#039;s 20,000,000)

This is genocide.  Any one who supports this is a genocidist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ronduck-</p>
<p>Growth rate USA, since 1965:  0</p>
<p>Population USA, 1965:  200,000,000<br />
Population USA, 2008:  305,000,000<br />
_________________________________<br />
Total from alien invasion:  105,000,000</p>
<p>Population USA, 2007:  301,000,000<br />
Current invasion rate:  4,000,000/year and exponential (in other words, 2009's rate could be 8,000,000 and 2010's 20,000,000)</p>
<p>This is genocide.  Any one who supports this is a genocidist.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/07/30/ninatos-bestias/comment-page-1/#comment-173301</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 11:17:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=680#comment-173301</guid>
		<description>This will clarify what I mean, and make it sound less alarming: currently America is ethnically cleansing out whites, it is non-Eurocentric. And currently there is no civil war by whites in the US - whites are not violently opposing being ethnically cleansed. We all agree on this, yes?

Such a policy could be redirected into Eurocentrism, in a centralised or decentralised manner and, in my view, with or without the managerial state.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This will clarify what I mean, and make it sound less alarming: currently America is ethnically cleansing out whites, it is non-Eurocentric. And currently there is no civil war by whites in the US - whites are not violently opposing being ethnically cleansed. We all agree on this, yes?</p>
<p>Such a policy could be redirected into Eurocentrism, in a centralised or decentralised manner and, in my view, with or without the managerial state.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/07/30/ninatos-bestias/comment-page-1/#comment-173274</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:50:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=680#comment-173274</guid>
		<description>Expulsion can occur slowly, over time as well, but this isn&#039;t the place to discuss it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Expulsion can occur slowly, over time as well, but this isn't the place to discuss it.</p>
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		<title>By: Kirt Higdon</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/07/30/ninatos-bestias/comment-page-1/#comment-173198</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirt Higdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 00:26:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=680#comment-173198</guid>
		<description>#18 - Expulsion, attractive or not, is not possible and a serious attempt to accomplish it would result in a multi-sided civil war in which more than one side would have nuclear and bio-chemical weapons and which would leave the country in ruins.  Secession might at some point be possible, but only after a significant weakening of the central government.  A US government which plans on occupying Iraq for the next 100 years is clearly not going to cut Vermont loose.  Individuals can secede by moving any time they feel like it; for me, I&#039;m quite happy right where I am.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#18 - Expulsion, attractive or not, is not possible and a serious attempt to accomplish it would result in a multi-sided civil war in which more than one side would have nuclear and bio-chemical weapons and which would leave the country in ruins.  Secession might at some point be possible, but only after a significant weakening of the central government.  A US government which plans on occupying Iraq for the next 100 years is clearly not going to cut Vermont loose.  Individuals can secede by moving any time they feel like it; for me, I'm quite happy right where I am.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/07/30/ninatos-bestias/comment-page-1/#comment-173168</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 20:13:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=680#comment-173168</guid>
		<description>Dr. Fleming,

there&#039;s currently an invasion taking place, which you&#039;re well aware of of course. It isn&#039;t xenophobia but a desire to resist said invasion.

Mr. Higdon is still sympathetic to the invasion last I read by him in here.

Mr Higdon writes: &lt;blockquote&gt;Clearly neither 100 million nor even 40 or 50 million people are going to be forcefully removed from the US.&lt;/blockquote&gt;and I think this the heart of the matter.

Chronicles has been the heart of the American right for some time, but now that these aliens are here, what is to be done with them? Not that I wish you to answer, I mean that rhetorically. At some point, expulsion or secession becomes attractive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Fleming,</p>
<p>there's currently an invasion taking place, which you're well aware of of course. It isn't xenophobia but a desire to resist said invasion.</p>
<p>Mr. Higdon is still sympathetic to the invasion last I read by him in here.</p>
<p>Mr Higdon writes:<br />
<blockquote>Clearly neither 100 million nor even 40 or 50 million people are going to be forcefully removed from the US.</p></blockquote>
<p>and I think this the heart of the matter.</p>
<p>Chronicles has been the heart of the American right for some time, but now that these aliens are here, what is to be done with them? Not that I wish you to answer, I mean that rhetorically. At some point, expulsion or secession becomes attractive.</p>
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		<title>By: TJF</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/07/30/ninatos-bestias/comment-page-1/#comment-173109</link>
		<dc:creator>TJF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 16:05:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=680#comment-173109</guid>
		<description>I thank Mr. Higdon.  I wish I knew Spanish, which I can sort of read after working quickly through a grammar book and scanning a couple of books.  The best I can hope for, though, is a rough-and-ready system of converting Italian into Spanish.  If there is one thing I can recommend to people is to study foreign languages.  they are calisthenics for the brain and introduce you to different ways of organizing reality.  I spent this Summer reviving my paltry bit of Modern Greek and am now moving back into Italian in preparation for our Winter School.  I believe that every language you know represents a different personality--the Italian me, for example, is a kinder and more relaxed person than my Anglo self.  I doubt they would like each other very much.  They don&#039;t have to because my Italian self can barely remember anything the Anglo self knows of, for example, American history.   

When I first discussed the kind offer to translate our articles into Spanish, Scott Richert wondered if there were any nativist dummies so stupid they would use this against us.  Somewhat naively, I said I thought no one could be so stupid, especially since Chronicles was fighting the immigration fight before some  of these people were born.    I remember when &quot;conservatives&quot; were eager to study all things Spanish, if only because the right side won the Spanish Civil War.  How many Spanish-speakers are there, world-wide, in Spain and Latin America.  In the past several years, some of the best and brightest right-wingers I have met come from Spain,  Chile, and Argentina.  Rather than talk to such people,  we should associate exclusively with monoglot xenophobes who pride themselves on their ignorance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thank Mr. Higdon.  I wish I knew Spanish, which I can sort of read after working quickly through a grammar book and scanning a couple of books.  The best I can hope for, though, is a rough-and-ready system of converting Italian into Spanish.  If there is one thing I can recommend to people is to study foreign languages.  they are calisthenics for the brain and introduce you to different ways of organizing reality.  I spent this Summer reviving my paltry bit of Modern Greek and am now moving back into Italian in preparation for our Winter School.  I believe that every language you know represents a different personality--the Italian me, for example, is a kinder and more relaxed person than my Anglo self.  I doubt they would like each other very much.  They don't have to because my Italian self can barely remember anything the Anglo self knows of, for example, American history.   </p>
<p>When I first discussed the kind offer to translate our articles into Spanish, Scott Richert wondered if there were any nativist dummies so stupid they would use this against us.  Somewhat naively, I said I thought no one could be so stupid, especially since Chronicles was fighting the immigration fight before some  of these people were born.    I remember when "conservatives" were eager to study all things Spanish, if only because the right side won the Spanish Civil War.  How many Spanish-speakers are there, world-wide, in Spain and Latin America.  In the past several years, some of the best and brightest right-wingers I have met come from Spain,  Chile, and Argentina.  Rather than talk to such people,  we should associate exclusively with monoglot xenophobes who pride themselves on their ignorance.</p>
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		<title>By: Kirt Higdon</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/07/30/ninatos-bestias/comment-page-1/#comment-173059</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirt Higdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 14:48:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=680#comment-173059</guid>
		<description>#14 and 15 - At one time it was considered the mark of an educated man to be fluent in more than one language. Dr. Fleming is trying to preserve and revive this tradition.

As far as the 100 million aliens is concerned, I think PcH is counting as alien anyone not of 100% white European ancestry, without regard to their citizenship or whether they were actually born here.  Clearly neither 100 million nor even 40 or 50 million people are going to be forcefully removed from the US.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#14 and 15 - At one time it was considered the mark of an educated man to be fluent in more than one language. Dr. Fleming is trying to preserve and revive this tradition.</p>
<p>As far as the 100 million aliens is concerned, I think PcH is counting as alien anyone not of 100% white European ancestry, without regard to their citizenship or whether they were actually born here.  Clearly neither 100 million nor even 40 or 50 million people are going to be forcefully removed from the US.</p>
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