wow. thanks then for our strong'ish mama Church... I've always loved her for that reason alone if there were no others but there are - she had the hutzpah to know... better at least to start being strong, just in case. Good. And if possible let's try to stay strong, god willing.

yes. i hear you. I suspect he IS willing - he sees the alternative. ouch.

What does then? It may be forever elusive with us doing 'better' to accept that, and that - what we would set-up to both define and limit ourselves although may be useful i.e. capital, labor each or both, is always going to run its course in Time and then due to our evolution (whether we like it or not) it's going to change and grow.

This happens not so often, even rarely - but this could be one of those times. ... Whenever it happens alot or too easily especailly when set-up to be endorsed via the media - it's predatory (one group chewing on another) and has little or absolutely nothing to do with slow evolution.

So although I agree with the socialists in their 'seeing' heck today it's not even capitalism it's State-capitalism or socialism in other words for the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer - the answer may Not be necessarily MORE socialism more evenly dispersed. Because it's as defunct in itself, in terms of where we are in Time as capitalism is, and yes even state-capitalism all of which are also probably defunct as well. So it seems to me something new or some hybrid is on the horizon not yet ascertained.

IF that is the case which I suspect is the case, then it's up to us all to do some sort of damage control, *knowing we don't have yet the answers about what is next but we are right now in the process of puzzling through this eventual and thus becoming present reality. That's my 'take' on where we're at now.

Beware of ideology [any kind] at this juncture would be the appropriate admonition, wouldn't it? Frankly I'm asking questions not suggesting I know or have conclusions per se. If I did I'd fall into the category of offering some other ideology. That's NOT where this all is at right at this moment.

Socialism is a great system as long as participation is completely voluntary. Otherwise, it relies on nothing but the massive threat of violence, for government is synonymous with force. Without guns to enforce compliance with its vast compulsory apparatus, such a system would crumble in a New York minute.

A question for our socialists - Would you allow me or anyone else to opt out of the system you envision?

How could you not have varying abilities within humanity, and then not have individuals apply their abilities to improve their condition? If varying abilities give advantages to certain individuals, how could it not then accrue to the descendants of individuals, or to whole related groups?

The above poster ably demonstrates the perpetual war that socialists wage on reality. Their article of faith, that every advantage is the result of an historic injustice, and that we would all be equal if not for some enemy class, demands constant war. If there be no aristocrats, or wealthy burghers, then even a Kulack will do.

I cringe at generalizations like these that perpetuate a false cause for 'the human condition' - as if it were a given that 'inequality' is just simply an innate quality of humanity and hasn't been ruthlessly engineered for centuries by those of privilege and power at the cost of those who toil for them.

Also, it seems that capitalism has also managed to never run out of enemies post WWII in order to keep its Military Industrial Complex a finely tuned profit machine.

Sorry but the reviewer needs to do more reading of Gramsci and Adorno before attempting to form direct links between their philosophies. AFAIK Gramsci never adhered to negative dialectical thinking and Adorno was not influenced by Gramsci in any major way.

also great post Comrade Wells!

A legal regime would be necessary to curb the number of stores a chain could own, the percentage of a market it could control, and a myriad of other regulations to level the playing field and widely distribute capital. They were quite aware that a massively expanded state would be required. That alone would expose it to withering assault by libertarians, Austrian schoolers, or any one else that chafes at restrictions. It lacks even the fanciful notion (lie) of socialism that there would be a withering away of the state. The distributists as Christian gentlemen were at least honest, and were honest enough to admit that their ideas had no reasonable chance of success.

Mr. Roberts has globalism nailed pretty squarely on the head : a mix of capitalism and socialism. I see no cessation of globalisation, barring a global catastrophe. But it seems rather unChristian to wish misfortune on someone, or yourself, even if it may be for a good cause. Correct me if I'm off the mark.

Mr. Van Oosbree, could you recommend a work by Kunstler relative to this topic? It would be appreciated. The only problem with thinking the change is inevitable is that it could breed apathy and/or inertia. Or could be a symptom of it. Not that I am accusing Kunstler or you of that.

Rublev is very likely right, in that the change won't come about without dismantling the central state. Am I wrong in thinking that Chesterton and Belloc hoped that the state would actually COOPERATE in a swing toward distributism/subsidiarity? I welcome correction on this matter. They weren't that naive, were they?

It's always refreshing to see material in brief/s not boxerShorts.

Thought gathers language into simple saying said a great philosopher.

I suspect it is difficult to pry, wedge, cut, saw, pull, drag people away from the notion government can save them which is the impetus behind the notion of socialism because they need to believe in what they both imagine to be the case and also can see. ... It's sad. ... After all - the American government has done to disenfranchise americans from just about everything - americans had ever known and held dear materially and in their minds or imaginations; astonishingly, instead of revolting they believe the same government now via barack or mcain will 'save' them. It is amazing. But that's because the same disenfranchising interests have the media. So that tells you how important a part the pause at the conceptual level is in both helping to inform people, but also how powerful in deceiving people.

We're conceptual creatures. And so yes, culture matters.

I would love to see Tom - next do a book (I'm serious) I think it would be a best seller called: "History For Beginners: From then until now" (And so he's not crucified whenever there's a fork in the road just point out both sides of the coin, and which side was chosen - so as not to be 'predjudice.') Keep it brief tom, keep it simple even include drawings if helpful. Here's a challenge - maybe 100 pages - 150 maximum...ok, 200... we're not that old a species - especially not that old an historic species. I have always said that is my hope for mankind - we're so young.

he could do it. he can think and boil down into simple saying. Thanks tom, seriously don't know you per se but from what i read - love ya.

you can do it. ... then, even idiots like our politicians will at least know some actual history, especially if the drawings included are cartoon-like. no?

The philosphical (idealist) study of "socialism" written of, by. and for the
ruling elites of this world will never reveal the barbarism inflicted upon the vast majority of humanity by capitalism over the last 500 years up to and including the present "New American Century"/

What would you call the Bush/Cheney regime? Almost every conservative and reactionary laments "Get government off our back! But corporate capitalism now has essentially privatized (i.e. owns) the federal governmentl
Thus we will never see an end to global wars for profit, never a serious attempt to end global warming. Mass migrations (i.e. impoverished Mexican working people into U.S.) are most recently caused by NAFTA treaties that drive peasant farmers off the land into the U.S.

Public health care, public education, any function of government for the common good (commonwealth) are forever under attack by privatizers wanting to make a fast buck. In the long term, ending public services means ending taxes to support these services. No matter if it turns the U.S. into a third world country --- mass poverty to profit a tiny minority of billionaires.

What we have now is unregulated gangster capitalism that seeks profit out of every catastrophe. The many crises that are killing millions and destroying the planet are often created or exacerbated by run-amok capitalism.

To read one daily fact-based (not ideology based) socialist perspective on current affairs I would suggest the World Socialist Web Site: http://www.wsws.org

in particular this current article:

A socialist answer to the global rise in gas prices
By the Editorial Board
5 July 2008

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/jul2008/gasp-j05.shtml

Thanks for reading the above.