Government Falls in Belgrade
Far from indicating Serbia's readiness to cower into the vivisection kennel, Tadic's victory on February 3 was the last chance for the U.S. and the EU to stop the Kosovo trainwreck. Both Washington and Brussels decided to play va banque instead. Serbia's resulting anger against the West will translate into the well-deserved demise for the DS and other "pro-Western democrats" at the parliamentary election on May 11.
The collapse of Serbia's government on Saturday was unsurprising and necessary. Prime Minister Vojislav Kostunica finally stated what we've known for months: that his coalition government "has no united policy any more on an important issue related to the future of the country, on Kosovo as a part of Serbia." The immediate cause of the split was the refusal of two pro-Western parties in the coalition to support Kostunica's position that Serbia would only seek to be integrated into the EU if it can be so in its entirety, including Kosovo.
The underlying causes of the rift are complex. Their explanation requires semantic clarity that is absent among Western analysts of Balkan affairs and their Serbian colleagues alike. Thirteen years of Slobodan Milosevic's rule in Serbia have left many ugly marks on the political and cultural scene of the country. One of them, of a secondary order yet illustrative of the country's mood, is the reluctance of participants in Serbia's public discourse to use certain eminently useful words, such as "conspiracy," "enemy," and "treason."
Those words have a clear meaning and semantic utility, but they are suspect in today's Serbia (no less than the word Volksgemeinschaft is suspect in Germany) because they have become associated with the spirit of Milosevic's era. Having been over-used and abused by his domestic propaganda outlets to malign his foreign foes and domestic political rivals alike, they are considered unclean. The legal, rhetorical, and moral weight of those three words was devalued by Milosevic and his inept media bosses no less than the country's currency was devalued by his Weimar-style hyperinflation.
In reality there had been many full-bloodied conspirators, enemies, and traitors among the Serbs' foes throughout the 1990s. In 1993, for instance, Bill Clinton actively conspired with the mullahs in Tehran to smuggle arms to Bosnia's Muslim mujaheddin, in blatant violation of the very UN resolution which the United States had proposed a year earlier. Albright's brutal ruse at Rambouillet in February 1999, executed with all the subtlety of Reinhardt Heydrich or Zia ul Haq, was a conspiracy against peace par excellence. Its perpetrators were Serbia's enemies in the technical, rather than ideological, sense of that term.
A semantically precise description of political events is the prerequisite for their proper understanding and analysis. We need those three words to explain accurately and adequately what has been going on in connection with Kosovo over the past few months.
THE CONSPIRACY
In the final quarter of 2007 we've witnessed a coldly premeditated conspiracy by the United States administration to prevent any possibility of compromise in Kosovo. Earlier statements by various U.S. officials, from Mr. Bush and Ms. Rice down, that Kosovo's independence was "inevitable" and that it would be achieved "one way or another" (June-July 2007) were a classic case of policy makers actively torpedoing a diplomatic outcome they dislike - and then claiming that the failure of "diplomacy" had been preordained, and therefore an imposed solution was necessary.
This same trick was played by then-U.S. Ambassador in Belgrade, Warren Zimmermann, when he actively sabotaged the Bosnian peace accord brokered by the Portuguese Presidency on behalf of the EU in early 1992. Zimmermann flew post-haste to Sarajevo to tell Alija Izetbegovic that the U.S. would support him if he were to renege on this agreement. The rest is history: Izetbegovic followed American advice, thereby igniting the Bosnian civil war. Zimmermann, his masters at Foggy Bottom, and the White House all share the responsibility for the bloody results.
The present American conspiracy over Kosovo went far beyond engineering the failure of diplomatic efforts. It was focused on getting the EU to follow the Diktat from the Potomac. The doubters were to be cajoled, threatened, maligned as Russian stooges, or otherwise press-ganged into submission. As Slovenian analyst Tomaz Mastnak noted in the latest issue of Foreign Policy in Focus, this behind-the-scenes collusion revealed two violations with regard to Kosovo:
The United States, with Slovenian assistance, sought to circumvent the European political process - not to speak of the UN. And Kosovo itself, by unilaterally declaring independence, violated international law. These two violations - of a political process and of the rule of law - will come back to haunt Europe and the United States in the coming months and years.
Slovenia plays a disproportionately important role in this story, Mastnak explains, because it assumed the European Union presidency on January 1, 2008. A week before, on Christmas Eve 2007, a top official of the Slovenian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, its Political Director Mitja Drobnic, had a meeting in Washington with Daniel Fried, assistant secretary of state for European /affairs, his deputy Rosemary DiCarlo, and Judy Ansley, NSA senior director for European affairs. An internal Slovenian report of this meeting was leaked to the Slovenian daily Dnevnik and the Belgrade daily Politika and published on January 25. Their authenticity was beyond doubt, causing the immediate resignation of Mr. Drobnic.
According to Drobnic's minutes, the Americans presented a list of demands, including "a mention of Iraq and rogue states, such as Iran, Burma, and Syria" in the US-EU declaration at the forthcoming summit in Ljubljana. Regarding Kosovo, the conversation was a careful orchestration of the timetable for independence. Drobnic asked for help with obtaining the UN Secretary General's statement in support of sending the European Security and Defense Policy mission to Kosovo, "since some EU member states have difficulties with making the decision to send the ESDP without the UN agreement." Fried responded that "the UN Secretary General Ban Ki Moon is under the pressure of the Russian Federation and thus in a difficult position," but the U.S. had assurances that the UN was not going to put restrictions on the sending the mission. Washington, he explained, "will help the UN Secretary General in the case of difficulties with the Russian Federation, while [Slovenia] has to achieve within the EU the sending of the ESDP in the shortest time."
As Mastnak points out, the decision to send the ESDP mission to Kosovo was of key importance for the United States, since it was effectively replacing the UN mandate over the province with the EU mandate. In pushing that decision through, Fried was clear: "one can ignore the critical positions and statements of the Russian Federation and Serbia." His deputy Rosemary DiCarlo noted that it would make sense if "the session of the Kosovo Parliament, in which they pass the declaration of independence, were to be on Sunday, since this way the Russian Federation would not have the time to call for the UN Security Council. In the meantime, the first recognitions would already have happened."
Fried further told the Slovenes that "the US is drafting the constitution with the Kosovars" and that the situation on the ground was "promising." Fried added, "The US hoped that the Kosovars would not lose confidence in themselves, because that would mean that the US will lose its influence."
Both by the formal and substantive criteria, the U.S. Kosovo policy in general and Daniel Fried's behavior in particular is a classic case of CONSPIRACY: the pursuit of illegal and illegitimate objectives through secret association with other plotters. Mr. Fried's manner of a mastermind telling his Euro-underlings how to stage a heist offers far more incontrovertible evidence of conspiratorial culpability than, say, the Hague "Tribunal's" accusation against Milosevic or Seselj that they had forged a conspiracy for the creation of a "Greater Serbia."
The US-EU plot is not aimed only at Serbia, Russia, and those EU members that oppose Kosovo's independence. Let us recall that Swedish foreign minister and former premier Carl Bildt declared last December that the EU should seek to maintain a "mere appearance" of respect for international legality. In reality the trans-Atlantic Kosovo conspiracy is directed against the very foundations of the global legal and political order, and therefore against peace as such. This is a capital crime par excellence under the Nuremberg Rules.
THE TRAITORS' SWAN SONG
There is no more overtly inimical act in international relations than taking territory away from one nation for the benefit of another. Throughout history it has been a perfectly legitimate casus belli. Accordingly, the proponents of Kosovo's independence are stricto sensu Serbia's enemies, just as the proponents of the Munich Diktat in September 1938 were the enemies of the Czechs. Accordingly, Under-Secretary of State Nicholas Burns - Daniel Fried's boss - "explained" why UNSC Resolution 1244 did NOT prevent Kosovo's secession in terms worthy of a Ribbentrop or Molotov:
The language referring to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Former Republic of Yugoslavia is mentioned in the resolution's preamble, not in any of its legally operative language. In other words, while UNSCR 1244 aimed for a negotiated agreement, it did not prejudge the ultimate outcome and did not legally require a negotiated agreement.
By this standard of "legality" this world is a Hobbesian jungle in which the life of small nations that do not obey the will of Messrs Burns, Fried, and their ilk, is nasty, brutish, and short. By allowing its Kosovo policy to be shaped by these dysfunctional bureaucrats and recognizing the monster of its own creation, the United States government - the Conspirator-in-Chief - has declared itself as an enemy of Serbia in the purely value-neutral sense, just as the proponents of a "free" Chechnya are objectively Russia's enemies. This is the context needed to understand the motives of demonstrators who damaged an auxilliary wing of the U.S. Embassy in Belgrade just over two weeks ago.
Within Serbia there are prominent "pro-Western" political leaders and top-level state officials belonging to the "reformist" and "pro-European" parties who have coordinated their domestic political strategies with the likes of Messrs. Burns and Fried, and their Euro-ilk. By any normal, i.e. non-ideological yardstick they are guilty of treason: of criminal disloyalty manifest in actions that undermine or jeopardize the interests of their nation and state. There is ample prima facie evidence of such culpability among Tadic's coterie. The recent presidential elections, for example, were called on December 12, 2008, by the Democratic Party without prior agreement among coalition partners - but in agreement with, and the approval of, Washington and Brussels.
Contrary to Mr. Burns' stated expectation of "a period of stability" after Kosovo's declaration of independence, the U.S. policy has destabilized the Balkans and divided the world. The good news is that the polarization will finally debunk the myth of the "International Community." If about a half of all sovereign states, accounting for more than two-thirds of the world's population, are not on board with the United States on this issue - intense pressure, threats and promises notwithstanding - the result will be a long-overdue and welcome loss of face and credibility by the global-hegemonist "foreign policy community" inside the Beltway.
Mr. Burns' confident expectation that, after some passing anger, Serbia would "take its place in the European Union in the future and in a better relationship with NATO and as a friend of the U.S." is as absurd as his "legal opinion" on UNSC Resolution 1244. The flames in the U.S. embassy in Belgrade were easy to put out, but the country's anger is deep and the people's resentment of America abiding.
President Boris Tadic's narrow victory (51 percent) in the second round of the presidential election on February 3 was entirely due to his claim that, as a pro-Western reformist, he could obtain less brutal treatment for Serbia from Brussels and Washington than his "nationalist" opponent. But Mr. Burns et al misinterpreted his victory as a sign that the Serbs were throwing in the towel. (Oh yes, had Tomislav Nikolic of the Serbian Radical Party won, they would have said that their scenario should be applied because Serbia proved herself to be irredeemably nationalist . . . )
Far from indicating Serbia's readiness to sling into the vivisection kennel, however, Tadic's victory was the last chance for the U.S. and the EU to stop the train wreck. The anger against the West will translate into the well-deserved electoral demise for Tadic's Democratic Party at the parliamentary election on May 11.Kosovo will linger on for a few years, as an expensive albatross costing American and European taxpayers a few billion a year. It will continue developing, not as a functional economy but as a black hole of criminality and terrorism. The ever-rising and constantly unfulfilled expectations of its unemployable multitudes will eventually turn - Frankenstein's monster-like - against the entity's creator.
107 Responses »
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- News | Serbian Unity Congress » Not So Fast - Serbia Conquered? Hardly., antiwar.com/Nebojsa Malic
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- Chronicles: A Magazine of American Culture | Your Home for Traditional Conservatism » The E.U.’s Double Game in the Balkans
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Srdja Trifkovic you wrote:“In reality the trans-Atlantic Kosovo conspiracy is directed against the very foundations of the global legal and political order, and therefore against peace as such.”
The US & the UN are the global legal and political order. They can do as they see fit. Why complain? As for your comment that this trans-Atlantic Kosovo is “ against peace as such.” One has to ask, just what type of “Peace” do you desire? Peace in the world today is brought about by force of arms. Peace is not brought about by any other means. You know the history of these last 100 years. The US won both WWI & WWII, the US is the victor. To the victor belongs the spoils. There is no higher authority than the US to appeal to. Did not the Serbs back in the day 1914 ever think that siding the US would one day come back to haunt them? Serbia made the decision to help the US then and now the US demands that Kosovo becomes independent. Serbia has to play by the rules as set by the Master.
Please explain why there is a western hatred for the Serbian nation? This I do not understand.
All this is very good news for the EU! The US will be blamed for the mess and that will be pointed to as a reason for not following the US into further foreign adventures. Equally, the "security" situation in the Balkans will justify pulling European troops from Afghanistan and Iraq and it will justify even closer EU-Russia relations. At the same time, the last thing the EU wants at the moment is to admit new Member States until the Treaty of Lisbon is safely under lock and key.
I don't think the future of Kosovo is anything like as bleak as Dr Trifkovic thinks, though. He has let his anti-Muslim bigotry run away with him! Islam is a religion, not a people, and the people we are talking about here is a European people, namely the Albanians. There is no reason to beleive that the Kosovo Albanians, who are actually much more in contact with the European mainstream than their brethern in Albania itself, will react any differently from any other group of Europeans in the same circumstances.
This whole thing shows every sign of working out to everybody's advantage!
Mr. Warning,
Your obsession with Austria-Hungary and blaming Serbia for her fall is well known by now.
You continue to ignore:
1. Serbia in 1914 also was a "throne and altar" monarchy of the type you espouse.
2. Serbia punished the assassins of the archduke and associated conspirators.
3. The assassins were Yugoslavists and not Serbian patriots.
4. The Serbs were hardly "siding" with the US in a disagreement that involved not ideology but the protecting of her kith, kin, and soil, which Austria threatened.
5. The Austrians were impudent and undiplomatic in their blatant disregard for Serbian history and tradition when they marched around her lands and amongst her peoples on one of her holiest days (June 28, 1914).
6. The Austrians conveniently ignored centuries of devoted Serbian service in protecting the empire against the rapacious Ottomans on her southern flank. (Have you figured out yet why there were so many Serbs in the Military Krajina that your Croatian friends removed from their ancestral homes?)
7. The Austrians could have offered a fair arrangement and accomodation to Serbia in order to preserve a peace - a peace which neither Austria ultimately wanted nor sought...nor her cousin the German Empire, for that matter.
It was Austria herself that brought her world down. Not the Americans. And certainly not little old Serbia.
Serbia is ignored by the west and hated by her, depending on whose perspective you hold, because she is the stand-in whipping boy for Christian Orthodoxy, in general, and Russia in particular. And political (in contrast to faithful), shortsighted "Catholics" like yourself (but certainly not all Catholics) in league with other elements in the western world have mistrusted and hated Orthodoxy. Bishops in both halves of the Church are working to change this - thankfully.
Modernists and materialists, who have shed their religious ways, hate her simply because she is Christian and traditional and not willing to sell out for a nickel or a seat at the EU table.
"America" (the maniacal government, that is) hates her for not being sufficiently "compliant" in the way that so many vassal states of Europe are. Who in eastern Europe has had the temerity to resist America's "invitation" to host garrisons, permananent military bases or missile installations - other than "hated" Serbia and Belarus? Contrary to what you are saying, Serbia suffers precisely because she does not regard America as her "master".
Need I go on or do you understand who hates her and why?
I know you hate her. So, go ahead, wish for and gloat over Serbia's destruction. Surely it will assuage your Austria obsession and make the world a better place for the Christendom you wish to return to.
Conveniently, Mr. Kenny has joined the conversation. Dweedle Dum to Mr. Warning's Dweedle Dee.
Yes, everything is jolly good in southern Europe. Biases against the Albanians' ties to Islamic jihad and their "right" to purge the Balkans of Christian shrines and Christian peoples as they spread their drug trade and prostitution should surely be controlled by Dr. Trifkovic.
As an American, I note that the Preamble of our Constitution states that one of the purposes that the people who ratified the new Constitution gives the government thereby engendered is to provide for the common defense.
In the binding body of that same Constitution, the genernal government is unconditionally bound to declare war, with that authority resting solely with the Congress of the general government and not with the executive.
Now, as I recall, the Congress of the United States did not declare war on Serbia. As I recall, and I could be wrong, Congress did not even give Mr. Clinton one of its unconstitutional resolutions to make war on Serbia. Mr. Clinton made war against Serbia, that means the Serbian people, unconstitutionally and without even the unconstitutional blessing of Congress. His unconstitutional war certain had in its execution and has in its aftermath nothing to do with the common defense, since Serbia posed no threat to the Republic.
Serbia was not a member of NATO and was posing no threat at all to a NATO country.
The UN has no authority to launch a war, and I do not recall its having sanctioned such action against its own charter.
Therefore, we Americans ought to be acting on this end, our end, to undo this immoral and unlawful travesty. One waits, however, for pigs to fly.
When people use phrases like "anti-Muslim bigotry" to express dissent from an argument, they are attempting both to shut off discussion and to put themselves on the moral high ground of anti-bigotry. What the motives of such people are, I do not pretend to know, but I would rather listen to raving "Kosovar" chauvinists--oh, excuse me, I forgot: They are good little Europeans by virtue, presumably, of their narco-trafficking and white slavery--than the mealy-mouthed pseudo-pragmatists who think they can eliminate principles from a discussion, simply by calling names. Perhaps Mr. Kenny should leave this discussion and join the Christophobes at the Southern Poverty Law Center website. He would fit right in.
I don't understand how any thinking Serb in Serbia would want to have anything to do with the European Union. Apparently there are some, maybe many, in Serbia who think there is no alternative to the EU. There is an alternative and that is Russia. Serbia could even join the Shanghai group. So there are alternatives.
The European Union, and you can bet your bottom dollar on it, will collapse. It is just a matter of time; it is illogical, unnatural and utopian.
The goal of this entity is to create a United States of Europe comparable to the United States of America or the United States of Brazil. That is a pipedream. You cannot compare Europe to America or Brazil. For one thing, there are enormous language barriers to overcome. How will that be done? Which language will become the lingua franca of this entity? Esperanto? Does anyone know or have any idea? I would be curious to know.
Beyond the cultural barrier of language, there are other cultural barriers to overcome. How is anyone going to mesh all these different customs, traditions and folklores into some sort of eclectic synthesis? These countries will lose their identities and culturally cease to exist. Serbia would no longer be Serbia. It would lose its culture and its identity.
I think there are many Europeans who are quite aware of what is happening and want nothing to do with the European Union.
Mr. Kenny @ 2
Your words:
"This whole thing shows every sign of working out to everybody’s advantage!"
When the old butler who is about to spill the beans on several generations of still living relatives and numerous house servants suddenly dies under very mysterious circumstances, his demise works to everybody's advantage; yet, his untimely death hardly rests on moral principles; quite the contrary!
This disintegration and dismemberance of Serbia is wholly produced and designed by a few countries. The USA is the focus of the farce; Germany, France, and Great Britain have all actively contributed and still are in the forefront. Most UN members are familiar with Kosovo's islamic aspirations -- that is why its recognition process is so slow. Time is on Serbia's side, only if the leadership there has the wisdom and courage to fight, verbally and literally. There's lack of will and courage to follow the Serbian tradition and fight -- at least, for now.
Eagle you wrote:“And political (in contrast to faithful), shortsighted “Catholics” like yourself (but certainly not all Catholics)”
By not all “Catholics” as such, you mean someone like the leader of the Freedom Party of Austria, Heinz-Christian Strache (Freiheitliche Partei Österreichs) who just happens to spend his time on March 2nd in a Serbian Orthodox Church participating in the Orthodox Liturgy and according to reports “Strache stood humbly during the entire Service, taking part in the worship and crossing himself according to the holy canons of the Eastern Orthodox Church, with three fingers. At one point, he even demonstrated unexpected familiarity with the Orthodox Christian liturgical service by joining the faithfuls' responses to the priest leading the prayers.” He also addressed the clergy and laity alike with a “patriotic and humanitarian speech”
Strache yeah… some faithful “Catholic” alright. If a man like this, is not willing to faithfully defend his Roman Catholic faith by at least abstaining from willfully participating in a Othrodox Liturgy, what makes you think that this type of man is going to faithfully defend the Serbian nation with his promise that “he intends to do his best to help the Serbs reclaim their Kosovo and Metohia province.”
Farsighted Eagle: If a man lies to God, he will certainly lie to you. Haven’t you learned any thing from history?
Srdja Trifkovic you wrote:“Contrary to Mr. Burns’ stated expectation of “a period of stability” after Kosovo’s declaration of independence, the U.S. policy has destabilized the Balkans and divided the world. The good news is that the polarization will finally debunk the myth of the “International Community.” If about a half of all sovereign states, accounting for more than two-thirds of the world’s population, are not on board with the United States on this issue - intense pressure, threats and promises notwithstanding - the result will be a long-overdue and welcome loss of face and credibility by the global-hegemonist “foreign policy community” inside the Beltway.”
Here goes: The New World Order is bad; so to defeat this “global-hegemonist foreign policy community inside the Beltway” what does one do? Just what does a Chronicles reader place his hopes in to accomplish this task of defeating this enemy? I have asked before and will ask again. Do you to a man place your hopes in Serb Nationalism? Serb Nationalism lead by the likes of a Heinz-Christian Strache, and his associates?
Ron Paul is not going to save you all. Is this what the conservative movement has come to? Placing hopes in Serb Nationalism?
The Old Westphalian Order is dead. It died on November 11th 1918. It was replaced by a monster the New World Order, who is now the master of the world. The Serbian nation is part and parcel of this monster. The Serbs would have been ruled by the Hapsburgs, but they threw off that yoke. Instead the Serbian nation took on a heavier yoke, the USA and the UN. Now the Serbs want to toss this yoke as well. What is next?
That they might know that by what things a man sinneth, by the same also he is tormented.Wisdom 11:17
Srdja Trifkovic please tell us just what is it, and who is it, that will bring about order and peace to the balkans region? If not the USA UN & EU then who? Another political movement? This you have to answer. You have to give options.
@Michael Warning (10):
So I take it, Mr. Warning, that you're more Catholic than the Pope, who, even more fully than Heinz-Christian Strache, has willfully participated in an Orthodox Divine Liturgy?
@ Mr. Scott P. Richert
I certainly do not have to enter into a mosque in order to defend independent Kosovo, now do I?
This is not about me. Tell me Mr. Scott P. Richert if as Srdja Trifkovic has said that: “The US-EU plot is not aimed only at Serbia… but… is directed against the very foundations of the global legal and political order, and therefore against peace as such.” what is to stop such a “conspiracy”?
If the UN EU & USA behaved as the Serbian nation demanded and desired, then what? everything would be ok? If the UN EU & USA declares that it made a mistake and that Kosovo is Serbia, then what? Then the UN EU & USA are best pals with Serbia?
Look gentlemen the reality is that all the world is a democracy and the current master is the New World Order.
If any of you have a solution to the world’s ills to stop such an Open conspiracy then please tell us. But you don’t. Again the solution was put to death on November 11th 1918.
That’s reality gentlemen, that’s the reality you have to deal with. Restore what was annihilated and then maybe you have a start in helping defeat your Open enemies the USA UN & EU.
@Michael Warning (13):
You didn't answer the question. Are you, or are you not, more Catholic than the Pope?
Or did you perhaps answer it, with your reference to entering a mosque?
WE ARE very glad to se3e all you "christians" fighting with each other while ISLAM are advancing.....hahahahahahhaha
FREE KOSOVA, FREE KOSOVA, FREE KOSOVA
THANKS to all good MOSLEM BROTHERS FROM ALBANIA, KOSOVA, BOSNIA, CHECHNYA who are fihgting for THE ONLY TRUE RELIGION.....ISLAM
Allahu Akbar الله أكبر
SALAM TO ALL…..FROM ZIAD Ismayilzada
FROM الشام ash-Shām
@Michael Warning (13):
And the best way to do that, in your mind, is to create an Islamic state out of a Christian one?
I'm afraid Ziad knows exactly what he'd like to restore--and your "solution" will bring about his desired restoration, not yours.
Since the french revolutrion the west has been on a crusade against christianity which has lead to the murder of millions especially the bolshevik invasion of Russia from the US and Europe. We decry the placement of crosses on any state insitution (unless there supporting Isreal) bet we are more than happy to place minorahs in the White House and hold jewish prayer meeting. The only country that supports christianity as a national identity is Russia and when two jewish artist displayed a series of exhibitions mocking Russian orthodoxy he took them to court while in the US government grants are given to things like "piss christ".
Are not all Christians supposed to be part of one body of Christ? This concept goes back before the schism between Catholic and Orthodox. Why this bigotry against Orthodox Christians who are every bit as Christian as Catholics or Protestants? Are we not supposed to be working toward reunification of the churches?
To gloat over such evil as is happening to fellow Christians in Kosovo and Serbia at the hands of infidels is itself evil, and is treasonous to real Christendom, which, as all good Christians know, includes Orthodox and Protestant and Copt as well as Catholic.
The Holy See didn't recognize Kosovo.
@Ziad
Islam will never win, it can only make everyone a loser.
Like you, I might add.
How deploring and depressing of the Western 'democracies' to join and support true Jihad wariors on Serbian soil!
I actually agree with both Dr. Richert and Mr. Warning. The dismembering of Serbia was irresponsible and trecherous, but Serbia was sleeping with the devil siding with the U.S.A. In terms of international policy and diplomacy, the U.S. has rarely if ever been a "good" power, even if in World War II and the Cold War it was the lesser of two evils. Not that she had much of a choice, and granted with a continent and an ocean between them, to say nothing of linguistic, cultural and religious barriers, she could hardly have known what she was getting herself into.
Consequently, I also think the world would be a better place if the Entente Cordiale had accepted the Central Powers' offer of armistice earlier on and not insisted upon vacating the thrones of Austria and Germany so that Hitler could crawl out of the sewer to occupy them.
Finally, prior to the 1960's Catholic catechisms did indeed teach that it was wrong to worship at non-Catholic ceremonies as though in communion, even spiritual, with heretics, schismatics or infidels, the exception being in the case of a social obligation such as a marriage or a funeral, and even then Catholics are forbidden from participating or servicing. From the Catholic point of view the Orthodox are schismatics, and of course vice-versa. As for whether Mr. Warning or myself are "more Catholic than the Pope"... even the Pope has a confessor. But with all due respect, I don't think it helps the cause of Christian peace to pretend unity exists where it doesn't.
@NGPM:
"Finally, prior to the 1960’s . . . "
Last I checked, this is 2008, and Mr. Warning and I are both referring to recent events. And on December 7, 1965, Pope Paul VI and Ecumenical Patriarch Athenagoras lifted the mutual excommunications. Canon law now allows Orthodox in good standing to receive Communion in Catholic Churches, and Catholics are allowed to receive Communion from the Orthodox (though I should note that, in practice, few Orthodox priests would commune a Catholic, except when the latter is in danger of death).
No one is pretending that "unity exists where it doesn’t," but you and Mr. Warning have taken it upon yourselves to assign the Orthodox a different canonical status from that which Rome assigns them.
To Mr. Kenny: I've been described as America-hating even by French people for my view that the U.S.'s place in world history has been by and large negative, but you one up me and go on a spree of blind, reflexive, exclusive hatred. The EU in control with Brown, Sarkozy and Merkel--all lite versions of the last couple of American presidents--and you think it will do better with the U.S. now bankrupted?
No, the EU has long since absorbed all of the toxic lies of Americanism and it is only a matter of time before they take the Old World down to hell with the New. Wake up, Mr. Kenny. I live in Europe, too. The barbarians are at the gates here.
P.S.: Last Sunday after Mass a group was selling "France-Serbie" solidarity tees outside Church. Just FYI.
@ Mr Scott P. Richert You wrote: "You didn’t answer the question. Are you, or are you not, more Catholic than the Pope?
Or did you perhaps answer it, with your reference to entering a mosque?'
“All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not; for they say, and do not. For they bind heavy and insupportable burdens, and lay them on men's shoulders; but with a finger of their own they will not move them. And all their works they do for to be seen of men. For they make their phylacteries broad, and enlarge their fringes.”
In this battle I will take the side of the Immaculate Conception:
"I am the Immaculate Conception." Our Lady of Lourdes
All the observations that Dr. Trifkovic is formulating are very interesting. However, it is very likely that this will be irrelevant as to what will happen next. That is, the upcoming elections will be either won by the Democrats or the Populist will win, but there will be a huge outcry that the elections were stolen, which in turn will precipitate a NATO intervention to restore order,over the objections but without the adequate counterintervention from Russia. Either way, the Democrats will be put in charge. In effect, these elections may prove to be a huge miscalculaton by the Populists. Instead, the Populists should have immediately formed a coalition government with the Radicals now, while they still can, but apparently someone's hubris did not allow this. The upcoming elections will not strenghten the position of the Populists. Instead, the election will weaken them, because it's an election for which the middle class will go all out for the Democrats sensing that this is an opportunity which they must sieze. This is in fact, the revenge and the showdown that they have been hoping for ever since Djinjdjic's murder. The election, contrary to what the Populists are hoping, is not gonna be about Kosovo at all, but about 60 years of almost uninterrupted rule of one populist stripe or another. In terms of Serbian politics, this will be a new stage of a 150 year old fight between the city and the country; the Populists, that is the Radicals, the Socialists and the Communists on one side and the middle and upper class, that is Royalists, Democrats, Liberals and Yugoslavs on the other. This time, unlike in the past few elections, the West will go all out with huge financial and logistical support to make sure that the Democrats win convincingly and resoundingly, in order to justify the western policy of "a weak Serbia means strong Balkans." With Populists out of the way, they hope, this will be possible and the whole saga of the end of Yugoslavia will be put to rest. Or will it be?
@Michael Warning (25):
Thank you for the clarification, such as it was. Just to let us all know exactly where you stand, for this and future discussions, are you a sedevacantist, or do you simply believe that the current pontiff is a heretic?
Dr. Richert, actually, Mr. Warning's first post *did* refer to events prior to the 1960's when he spoke about Strache's presence at an Orthodox Divine Liturgy, which was decidedly before the mutual ceremonies of 1965 and the revised Canon Law of 1983.
And although I am not by any means an expert in Canon Law, it is my understanding that the new code also relaxes long-standing rules regarding things like cremation of the dead and mixed marriages outside the Church. The fact that they may now in some circumstances be "lawful" does not mean exercising these newfound rights would be at all prudent or a good example.
Further, does not denying a doctrine of the Catholic faith put one outside of communion with Rome? No bona fide Orthodox Christian accepts the doctrine of Papal Infallibility as proclaimed by the First Vatican Council. I could go on, but this is distracting from the original point of the thread.
As for Mr. Warning, yes, the history of Europe would have been much better with the Habsburg Empire intact, but they, like all of the Great Powers of the day, wanted war--and Europe paid the ultimate price. They were at least as much at fault as Serbia, even if we grant that the survival of Austria-Hungary was geopolitically more significant than that of the afforementioned. Their determination to crush what they considered a nuissance was only the last spark needed to light the napalm.
@NGPM:
That would be quite some trick, considering that Strache was born on June 12, 1969, and became chairman of the Freedom Party of Austria (a position Mr. Warning says he held when he attended the Divine Liturgy) on April 23, 2005.
I had a question on the political situation in Serbia for Dr. Trifkovic or anyone else who knows could answer. Why did Prime Minsiter Konstunica resign rather than try to form a coalition government with the Radical Party and Socialist Party to form a solid majority government in parliment? Would he not have to do that anyway after elections or current trend towards a majority government led only by the Radical Party?
Because the Radicals have no incentive to accept this deal. They expect to do better on May 11 than on Jan 21, 2007, and their terms will be accordingly stiffer. It is unlikely, however, that they can ever share power without some arrangement with Kostunica: his cca 10% of the vote (DSS+NS) will continue to be the key ingredient in any likely combination.
Thank you Dr. Trifkovic. I think your explanation begs this question, would Radicals prefer to have Kostunica being the Prime Minister even itheir party dominates the cabinet?
Yes, just as he is the PM now with Tadic's DS having 2/3 of the ministries. If there's a deal with the Radicals he'd probably insist on controlling five ministries, those for
- Kosovo
- Interior affairs
- Foreign affairs
- Finance and
- Justice
@ Michael Warning, #25
As seen before on this site and others, when you paint yourself into a corner and others point that to you, you hide behind a quote, either from the Holy Scrpture or behind a papal pronouncement or canon law or whatever.
Alas, quoting the Scripture out of context still does not give validity to any of your claims. If you were able to make a sensible argument in your own words serious people who visit this site might start to take you seriously. But till then...
I apologise, Dr. Richert. I completely misread the order of things.
Mr Kenny,
It is possible the Albanians are seen as "Europeans" in Ireland, because you have hardly any there. In Germany, where there are many of them, most people wouldn´t mind at all if all the Albanians were to move from Germany to Ireland. Germans clearly do not see Albanians as just any other Europeans, but associate them correctly with other Muslims -- Turks and Arabs -- for the simple reason that Albanians behave the same way like other Muslims: they are above-average violent and involved in criminal activity. In the German perception there is a clear difference between Muslims, including Albanians, and non-Muslim foreigners, including the Serbs. And Germans could hardly be called the best friends of Serbs.
Reaction of many Germans to recognition of Kosovo by the German government is not enthusiastic, - there is a widespread view that only USA will benefit from this, while Germany will be required to feed fresh armies of violent, raw, non-assimilable, often criminal Albanians, who will thank by beating German pensioners to death in subways, raping their women and calling them "Scheissdeutsche". This all will definitely not decrease already strong Antiamericanism among Germans.
And there are lot of Germans who are well aware that in case this USA Kosovo-undertaking does not succeed, it won´t be USA to be punished (they will simply disappear from Europe), but Germany, with its longstanding reference of being an enemy of Serbia.
Mr. Warning,
Some Serbs understand that it is indeed a huge pity, for both parties, that Germany is not the strategic partner and ally of Serbia. I live among Germans and think that they are good people. They are loyal and stick to their promisses and words, unlike the perfidious British. When it comes to treatment of the Serbs, Hitler was a gentleman compared to the UK and USA. However, Germany has a great gift to choose the wrong partners, too (the most spineless and cowardly groups that never acted in a principled manner) - no wonder it keeps losing wars.
As for your question "If the UN EU & USA declares that it made a mistake and that Kosovo is Serbia, then what? Then the UN EU & USA are best pals with Serbia?" the answer is "No, heck, no!"
In Sweden there is a majority supporting Kosovo independence. Mostly because they have no idea what is happening and media is only parroting press releases authored by lobby groups supporting independence. I have noted that when people are starting to discuss Kosovo and understand what is going on, they usually change their mind and start supporting Serbia. There are a few reasons for this. The most important reason being:
Swedes are very law obediant and international law is on Serbias side. US and their EU puppets are trying to circumvent international law, weaken the UN and weaken Serbia. Once Swedes understand this they usually change their minds.
There are even 200 Swedes in the illegal EULEX mission and media here have not written one word about the legal status of EULEX. Or rather the lack of legal status.
The Swedish FM Carl Bildt have parroted the over used term "stability in the Balkans". Well, Kosovo independence have so far caused government crisis in Serbia, Macedonia and Croatia. Kosovo itself has been de-facto splitted between ethnic lines. How is that for stability?
The reasons for US supporting Kosovo independence is beyond me. It might have to do with repositioning power in a multipolar world where US is not any more the single super power. But that's just a guess. I'm sure Dr.Trifkovic have a better answer to why US is acting in this strange, senseless and illogical way.
"The reasons for US supporting Kosovo independence is beyond me. It might have to do with repositioning power in a multipolar world where US is not any more the single super power."
Whatever the basic pretext (and I have several ideas, but I'll let Dr. Trifkovic take the stant), one should not underestimate the buffering power of bloodlust to carry this feeble logic to its fiery conclusion. Remember that Madeleine Albright, who oversaw the whole thing, was the one who asked Colin Powel, "What's the point of having this great world-class military if you're not going to use it?" and who, in response to a journalist's direct question about the 500,000 Iraqi children who had died as a result of international sanctions against Sadaam Hussein that "we think the price is worth it."
Everyone's EVIL mostly...or we wouldn't be here, would we?
It's tragi-comic or comi-tragic... the world...
the U.S. became an empire against the wishes of its founders like George Washington. we're in 140 countries, count them with our troops. why? EMPIRE. we're NOT 'good'. the good here in the u.s. are STUPID, sadly. so they're USED.
questions?
i'm not a broad... so no, i don't think or believe it will change.
then the intelligent question always becomes... ok, what's damage control.
?
it ain't for example the new nazi jew notion of zionism.
savages are always and only just incomplete civilizationally and thus savages. that's why the astute became christians... and completed it ideologically.
the rest are stupid subsequently as dirt.
By now, even a cretin Serb should realize that the West is either downright hostile, or at best totally indiferent to the plight of his nation, and that the further attempts to pursuing this abject toadying, can only generate a contempt for the Serbs even amongst their friends.
Serbs have only one honorable way out: to go with Russia and to go all the way. With Russia and China as allies, it is only a matter of time when Kosovo will be re-conquered, whether the Europe likes it or not.
China and Russia are getting stronger by the day. The U.S. and the EU are spent force who will hardly be in position to fight for their 'Kosova' in a very few years from now.
As a native born American citizen of Scottish descent, I would like to add that US foreign policy stinks like the rotten fish washed up after a bad storm !
Since none of this year's candidates as an ounce of sense between them about Serbia, my husband and I will be sitting out the 2008 elections. McCain, Obama and Hillary are SERB-HATERS. ALL THREE of them!!
Why be a volunteer to the madness the USA has caused in Serbia? My husband and I, REFUSE and we will not be guilty of the crimes committed by this government.
This government does what it wants but NOT IN OUR NAMES!!! Since we are retired and on a fixed income and have several health issues, we do not even have any taxes to pay anymore. THANK GOD!!
The USA cares nothing for its citizens. NOT A WHIT. They just want the power to run rough shod over the world, get money and canon fodder for the war they start and provide BIG MONEY the rich folk and Saudi Sheiks.
My family and I pray for ALL Orthodox Christians and Jews around the world!!
That slick politician "Ziggy" Brzezinski gave his opinions on the Orthodox Church several years ago, when he, a the Polish Roman Catholic said, that now the the USSR was collasped now the enemy of the USA was the ORTHODOX CHURCH!!
I do NOT want to be allied with a slick and slimey Mr. Brzezinski and his crooked US Govt. !
I prefer THE ORTHODOX CHURCH!!
@42 Peter RV you wrote:"With Russia and China as allies, it is only a matter of time when Kosovo will be re-conquered, whether the Europe likes it or not.
China and Russia are getting stronger by the day. The U.S. and the EU are spent force who will hardly be in position to fight for their ‘Kosova’ in a very few years from now."
So basically you desire a World War III. All because Serbia wants more land.
@43Nancy Rose
I dont like Brzezinski and his family dynasty in US media and government because hes an anti Russian facist who wants to use islamic proxies to destroy Russia which started in Afghanistan and continued into the 90's, thats what the Balkins war was about. I new he was anti christ using John Paul 2 as a political proxy during the latter years of the cold war and supporting every anti christian islamic insurgency on the planet.
@ Mr. Scott P. Richert (27) You wrote: “Thank you for the clarification, such as it was. Just to let us all know exactly where you stand, for this and future discussions, are you a sedevacantist, or do you simply believe that the current pontiff is a heretic?”
Interested to see you bring the word sedevacantist into this. As you know both the Serb Orthodox and the sedevacantist reject and deny the authority of the current reigning Holy Roman Pontiff Benedict XVI. Both religious movements have set up themselves in opposition to the Authority of this Papal Office. Granted the Serb Orthodox may view the Holy Roman Pontiff Benedict XVI just as another bishop with no greater authority than any other bishops. And the sedevacantist would view Benedict XVI as no bishop at all. But both of these religious movements are similar and both are egalitarian in nature. Both reject the hierarchy of the Church in word and deed. Both are cut from the same cloth.
So I would not side with neither of these movements, not for religious purposes or for political purposes. It would be contrary to the doctrine of the Kingship of Christ to do so, and it would hinder the restoration of the Kingship of Christ over all Nations.
Now to ask you Mr. Scott Richert why would a Roman Catholic who is a citizen of the USA think it is a duty to defend Serbia? This I find as nothing but folly.
You asked me “are you a sedevacantist?” the answer no. But please hold yourself to the same standards. If it is wrong for me to be part of a movement that rejects the authority of the Holy Roman Pontiff Benedict XVI, then is it not wrong for you as well?
There has to be an hierarchy of heretics. Catholics should not flee from proclaiming what is true and what is not. Both sedevacantists and the Orthodox are defective and do not share the full Truth of faith. However, it does not follow that they are as theologically mistaken as apostates. In the face of Islam, secularism, etc., Catholics should indeed stand with their Orthodox brethren in defending all that is just and holy, and it would be more than folly to group all non-Catholic faiths into one category to which we owe no loyalty. Certainly we should sympathize with the Serbian Orthodox Church when it faces enemies that wish to annihilate it because of the Christian tradition in which it participates.
Serbia has historically always been at such crossroads. Serbia now faces the same test that prince Lazar faced more then 6 centuries ago. To chose an earthy kingdom -> EU or a heavenly kingdom –> Jesus Christ. Lets hope its leaders make the same decision prince Lazar made and choses Christ.
Let us pray for the Serbian people.
@ Michael Warning, #46
Since you brought up Catholic vs. Orthodox relations again, here's a question for you.
Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith released the following document entitled Responses to Some Questions Regarding Certain Aspects of the Doctrine on the Church on June 29, 2007.
The document says, among other things:
THIRD QUESTION
Why was the expression “subsists in” adopted instead of the simple word “is”?
RESPONSE
The use of this expression, which indicates the full identity of the Church of Christ with the Catholic Church, does not change the doctrine on the Church. Rather, it comes from and brings out more clearly the fact that there are “numerous elements of sanctification and of truth” which are found outside her structure, but which “as gifts properly belonging to the Church of Christ, impel towards Catholic Unity”.
“It follows that these separated churches and Communities, though we believe they suffer from defects, are deprived neither of significance nor importance in the mystery of salvation. In fact the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as instruments of salvation, whose value derives from that fullness of grace and of truth which has been entrusted to the Catholic Church”.
FOURTH QUESTION
Why does the Second Vatican Council use the term “Church” in reference to the oriental Churches separated from full communion with the Catholic Church?
RESPONSE
The Council wanted to adopt the traditional use of the term. “Because these Churches, although separated, have true sacraments and above all – because of the apostolic succession – the priesthood and the Eucharist, by means of which they remain linked to us by very close bonds”, they merit the title of “particular or local Churches”, and are called sister Churches of the particular Catholic Churches.
“It is through the celebration of the Eucharist of the Lord in each of these Churches that the Church of God is built up and grows in stature”. However, since communion with the Catholic Church, the visible head of which is the Bishop of Rome and the Successor of Peter, is not some external complement to a particular Church but rather one of its internal constitutive principles, these venerable Christian communities lack something in their condition as particular churches.
Therefore according to the official teaching of the Roman Catholic Church, salvation is found in the Orthodox Church because it has proper sacraments, apostolic succession, priesthood and Eucharist.
We can agree to disagree if Orthodox Church suffers from defects or not--obviously the Orthodox don't believe that.
Now you can either believe this teaching of your own church or not. If you do, then all of your prior rants against the Orthodox are baseless, since salvation is found in the Orthodox Church.
But if you don't believe this teaching of your own church, what does that make you? A dissident? A heretic? I'm not an expert on Canon law, so please you tell me. And if you disagree with this teaching of your own church, I don't think that makes you a good Catholic. Please explain if you believe otherwise.
Just to be clear on the prior post, response to the 4th question ends with "these venerable Christian communities lack something in their condition as particular churches." Comments following that are mine.
Sorry for not using better formatting.
More for Michael Warning, #46
You said "...Orthodox and the sedevacantist reject and deny the authority of the current reigning Holy Roman Pontiff Benedict XVI. Both religious movements have set up themselves in opposition to the Authority of this Papal Office."
Orthodox have not "set up themselves in opposition" to papacy (current or historical) since Orthodox have apostolic succession, which the Roman Catholic Church officially admits (see my posting #49).
To claim otherwise is both logically impossible and historically wrong, but not surprising coming from you.
As for the sedevacantists, I really don't care.
@Michael Warning (46):
I'm not part of any such movement--in fact, in response to your cryptic remarks that attacked Pope Benedict for entering a mosque, I was defending the Holy Father, as well as defending the Catholic Church's canonical designation of the status of the Orthodox Churches.