Pillow Fight
Over at NRO, an entertaining spat has developed between Ramesh Ponnuru and David Frum over Ponnuru's criticism of Frum's book Comeback. Ponnuru writes that "none of [Frum's] facts can be trusted without independent verification" and that Frum's pose as a "bold truth-teller" is "insufferable." Frum, for his part, describes Ponnuru's "distinctive Grand Panjandrum manner" as "abusrdly pompous" and refers to Ponnuru's "weird combination of vitriol and grandiosity." Of course, there is a lot of truth to each man's description of the other.
The irony is that, as Ponnuru writes, both "agree on the need for Republicans to offer an agenda that helps the lower middle class." As Ponnuru writes, he has even been writing about the need to curb immigration to help the lower middle class for six years!
The deeper irony—one that will be lost on both Ponnuru and Frum—is that the man each of them has vilified, Pat Buchanan, has been forcefully arguing for "Republicans to offer an agenda that helps the lower middle class" and to curb immigration since his first run for President, in 1992. In this, Buchanan was on the same page as Chronicles, which was the first major publication to recognize the need for immigration reform after the disastrous Immigration Act of 1965. It is nice to see that Frum and Ponnuru are beginning to recognize that Buchanan and Chronicles may have had a point all these years. Just don't expect either of them to offer a word of gratitude, given the all too accurate description each offers of the other.
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Tom, you have made my day. Seeing two people, whom I despise, tearing each other apart is indeed a treat. I'll just get some popcorn, sit back, watch the show. As far as the insults go, I'll have to give the award to Frum. "Distinctive Grand Panjandrum manner” is hard to beat.
If anything, this is indicative their growing insignificance. If you look at the public stats on NRO, it is declining in popularity, while single-issue sites like NumbersUSA are growing at a phenomenal rate.
Frum and Ponnuru care about the American middle class about as much as wolf cares for a herd of sheep. In just the past six months, Ponnuru has attacked both Duncan Hunter and Mike Huckabee for their criticisms of free trade, despite the fact that even the most dogmatic free-trade advocates (like Paul Krugman) now all but admit that it's destroying our middle class. In fact, I'd be willing to wager $100 that at some point within the past five years Ponnuru, probably at a cocktail party, has referred to the inhabitants of some of our industrial bases as "white trash."
Ponnuru an immigration reductionist? That's a good one. Has he gone back and deleted all his previous posts criticizing Peter Brimelow, Buchanan, and Roy Beck? Has he deleted his posts calling for more H1B visas from Asia, despite the fact that it has been shown (vide George Borjas) that these visas are driving down American wages in the high-tech and engineering industries? (That there is a "shortage" of labor in high tech or engineering is a lie, as any of the unemployed computer programmers or engineers I know will tell you.)
Chronicles certainly should be given credit for being in the forefront of immigration reduction. To be honest, I don't really think that the neocon crowd has "changed" much on immigration; I just think it's only lip service. I think they see how divisive the issue is, care about more "important" things (endless war in the Middle East), and thus have temporarily conceded the front on immigration. Their long-term strategy will probably be to come out against illegal immigration, only to support massive increases in legal immigration from the Third World.
Bede,
Always glad to oblige!
"Their long-term strategy will probably be to come out against illegal immigration, only to support massive increases in legal immigration from the Third World."
"Long-term"?
And what, my good sir, makes you think that at the present rates either National Review or the U.S. of A. can possibly survive in the "long term"?
Thanks Tom. It's always a pleasure to receive your posts about the kids. I like to hear about the little brats --- pulling each others hair, scratching, and writing each other mean messages. Be assured, however, they won't hurt anybody. As Frum once admitted about himself, " I can put words in anothers mouth, but I can't get anybody to believe them. "
Loving it - non-sequitur coming in - i was almost hit by a maintenance vehicle driving 30MPH by a mexican working at the university... it's silent...on the sidewalk we all traverse to the university... is metal with pointy rusty edges was (as is legal) fully on the sidewalk and came by from behind me on my left...it brushed by clothes. And then turned in about 50 yards down the sidewalk into the dorms where the maintenance folks work... (i have a temper - and so the almost a proverbial 'dust-up' occured - but i controlled ME) - i went and found him - his excuse was (quote) 'you were just startled because it's a cart.'
he didn't quite get it - that's WHY to be startled. it's a lethal weapon.
he Can't yet BE responsible while he IMAGINES he's driving a 'cotton cloud'...
yes i attempted explanation - if a bullet whizzed by my head i'd 'just' be startled BECAUSE it was a bullet. if a car whizzed by me on the sidewalk from behind when I could have as usual simply moved an inch over while walking and got hit from behind... it would have startled me since a CAR... LOOK at what you're driving i pointed to it.
it's a small tank no? FOOOOOOOOOOOLS. WHY they still drive cars. in their mind's eye(s) it's a cotton cloud...with stereo. 'almost' funny.
pillow fight, dudes and dudettes! pillow fight. ooops my clothes fell off.
Frum isn't very popular around here, and rightly so, but he was extremely critical of the 1965 Immigration Act in his book How We Got Here, published in 2000.
I personally would be rather surprised if Ponnuru had ever used the term "white trash."
DEAD - oh, sorry DEAD to me. then i like to Watch. (questions.) who can get passed it except bill and his...because he loves.
lost in the rain in juarez and it's eaSter time too - they got some hungry women there they make a mess out of you....
do you have a country sir - or do you not...
Thanks for the article Tom. Funny.
The Cold War is over [many say] and Islam has yet to get and hold the attention of Americans. As far as the American public is concerned there is no major threat looming anywhere other than what is happening to their lawn this winter.
So Ponnuru and Frum pillow fight. Huntington and others have said that we all need enemies and we will do all we can to find some ASAP. Ponnuru and Frum were bored and needed a handy
enemy. There's nothing much on television and endless writing gets "same old same old." Enter: Pillow fight.
James @#6
"Frum isn’t very popular around here, and rightly so, but he was extremely critical of the 1965 Immigration Act in his book ."
If you add his pro choice position with his criticism of immigration you have the essense of his politics = Nobody left but ME. Quite the reverse of the Chronicles position which can expect respect for our borders because of the respect we have for the borders of others -- Iraq, Kosovo, and life itself. The position of the open boarders crowd is very similar to the crackpot neo-cons, like Frum: anyone who would disagree with Me, must be either uncharitable or unpatriotic.
Jim Antle has a good review of Frum's book on the American Spectator website.
Frum's book isn't close to whatDead Right according to Antle. It's basically a sophomoric attempt to try justify what Frum reall stands for which is right-wing social democracy, because supposed times have changed. Here's a man who was trumpeting small government back in 1993 and now is saying "why can't conservatives make the obesity issue our own?"
As they say, you've come a long way baby!
Mr. Piatak,
The willing hypocrisy of these guys just never stops. I remember when Pat Buchanan left the duopoly back in 2000, Ramesh Ponnuru was lamenting the fact that:
"Buchanan almost never talks about cutting government any more, certainly not about ending specific programs or programs that benefit the middle class."
Now, seven years later, he is arguing about how, both he and Frum “agree on the need for Republicans to offer an agenda that helps the lower middle class.” ?
I am always skeptical of "conservatives" proposing new solutions. The new solutions are almost invariably the abandonment of old principles.
ditto Red Phillips ... not because they're rigid or hard & fast 'principles' - but because they are usually time tested...and those looking for the 'solutions' want outs too fast. Fast food. then you suffer in the digestion.
all too often we WITNESS sweet to the taste... bitter in all that time of digestion
while - ok to the taste... don't even know later you're digesting it. it 'worked'. such are the principles. try it, you'll like it.
then with great cuisine - keeping the principles & improving taste.
has anyone bought my book - cooking italian? (it never sold - i'll be happy to give them away.) ... it's not only italian and aroma therapy for the whole household... i improved on the digestion... all the compatible combinations and healthy ingredients ... you don't even 'know' you're digesting it - and you have all kinds of energy.
plus you're thin. imagine that - a thin italian.
all the 'don's' want a copy - they ain't stupid.
David Frum has been all over the place these past fifteen years. He has attacked Pat Buchanan and then adopted many of Buchana's positions. He wrote "Dead Right" and its opposite "What's Right" within a two year period. He has been both slavishly devoted to George W. Bush and has attacked George W. Bush within the last five years. And, of course, he famously tried to smear all those conservatives who did not back the war against Iraq- from Tom Fleming and Sam Francis to Robert Novak and Justin Raimando- in 2003. Frum has burned his bridges and has become something of a weathercock in the conservative movement. Who knows, maybe he'll come to Dr. Fleming, hat in hand, and ask for column space in Chronicles before his next transformation is complete.
Tom,
"Tweedledum and Tweedledee,
Agreed to have a battle;
For Tweedledum said Tweedledee
Had spoiled his nice new rattle.
Just then flew down a monstrous crow,
As black as a tar-barrel;
Which frightened both the heroes so,
They quite forgot their quarrel.
I don't mean to liken you to a monstrous black crow, but I am sure that you could frighten them back into agreement!
Yes, you are right, Prof. Willson.
Pillow Fight... sometimes the 'spoiled' don't know the havoc they wreak - then if it persists... reality catches them Up. If that's Tom - cudos... i've studied you sir - good - it is. And they should know you're the kind version.
i'm the so-called nihilst. (but i'm not that either.)
humor - tell me Punks - i.e. speaking to those Frum there - do you feel Lucky today?