Criminals With Badges—How the Police Create Crimes
Take heed, ye red-blooded American males. The police are operating a new sting designed to destroy your life.
The police are planting attractive women half-naked in parks. They entice passing males, engage them in conversation, lay back, spread their legs and rest their feet on the men's shoulders.
After being as friendly and suggestive as possible, they ask to see your penis.
Don't show it to them. You are being filmed by police. If you show your penis, you will be arrested as a pervert.
Only American police, judges and juries could think that responding to a seductress's invitation is proof of perversion. But, hey, you live in America, where Christians believe that killing as many Muslims as possible for Israel is God's work. Don't expect a dumb Amerikan jury, or a self-righteous Republican judge, or a mindless law professor to understand entrapment.
No, this is not a joke. It is actually happening. Last May in Berliner Park in Columbus, Ohio, Robin Garrison, a 42-year-old firefighter, was lured into arrest by a half-naked woman under a tree.
In reporting the story, the idiot—possibly some male-hating feminist—who wrote the headline for ABC News describes the above: "Topless Woman Lured Perverts in Police Sting."
Get that, red-blooded American males? You are a pervert if you show your penis to a woman who is seducing you.
The reporter, Marcus Baram, is not indignant about the sting. Neither is Gabriel Chin, a University of Arizona law professor who says, "It's not entrapment to give somebody an opportunity to commit a crime."
It was Anglo-Saxons who made laws against entrapment. Thanks to law professors like Chin, gullible reporters and jurors, and corrupt police, prosecutors and judges, Americans no longer have the protection of law. In the Orwellian world in which we now live, a male who succumbs to female seduction is a pervert.
The American police have never prevented crimes. In olden days, the police solved crimes by finding the guilty party. No more. In our time, the police create crimes. And that is why the U.S. prison population is twice the size of China's, an authoritarian country with a population four to five times larger than America's.
And not only in Columbus are crimes created by police. The corrupt New York Police Department ensnared 300 innocents during 2007 via "Operation Lucky Bag." Police place iPods, cell phones, wallets and shopping bags containing items in New York subway stations. The items appear to be dropped, lost or abandoned. Anyone who picks up one of the planted items is arrested for "subway grand larceny."
This particular police atrocity is in conflict with New York law, which allows someone who finds property 10 days to turn it in to the police or find the owner.
The corrupt NYPD says that the property left as bait has not been abandoned, but is the property actively left by an officer who is still in the vicinity.
There you have it. The American police—"support your local Gestapo"—spend their time engineering false crimes and not investigating real crimes. Americans are more at risk from the police than they are from criminals.
On Dec. 29, I received yet another email from a law-abiding American family harassed by police. The family refused to sell a $75,000 piece of property to a deputy sheriff for $4,000. Farm operations were obstructed. The mother was stopped every time she went out in the car. The son was framed and sent to prison.
Never make the mistake of calling the police, and never get stopped by a traffic cop. You run the risk that he will drop a bag of drugs into you car and arrest you on a drug offense. Most police charges are false charges. Americans need to wake up to this fact, or the American prison population will outstrip the rest of the world combined.
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I was once pulled over by a state trooper for not having headlights on in what was really only a sprinkle. I expected jackboot treatment but was surprised at how nice the trooper was. His demeanor and his treatment of me actually made my day. He was an older cop. The older cops tend to be more respectful and far less jackboot.
The other two encounters I've had with being pulled over were far less appealing. The first time I was ever pulled over, I was given a ticket illegally because I was on a private road. I paid the ticket and then discovered that I could have had it thrown out of court, but I didn't know it was a private road at the time. The cop did. A new judge came along a couple years later, and he began throwing out every ticket written on that road. The previous judge was making people pay the fine unless they pointed out for the record that the road was private. Only then would he throw the ticket out of court.
My father started out as a rookie back in the early fifties right after the Korean war, but he quit the force after about nine months because of the corruption. The nearby city was host to major mafia figures at the time, and the entire police force was being paid off, and sometimes, it was hiding mafia figures out. Even so, my father remained friends with many cops of that generation who were just everyday people. The most corruption these friends of his committed - that I'm aware of - was in helping a ex-cop turned liquor store owner hide his beer when his beer licence expired, so it wouldn't get confiscated. I remember my father talking about how, when he was young, the local city police may have been taking mafia payoffs and hiding out mobsters in the city alright, but the cops didn't generally bother or mistreat people. Today, there are no more mafia payoffs or hiding out of mafia figures, but the cops really tend to harass people now. Corruption has taken on a new direction, targeting innocent citizens. This problem seems to have begun to get out of hand during the eighties.
Back in 1991 or 1992, I knew an ex city cop of a younger generation who told me that there was only one good, decent man left on the city police force, and that man never got in front of a fellow officer in a situation where guns had to be drawn, because he knew they would shoot him in the back.
Since then, I have known one other ex city cop who was a likeable person. He, like the other ex-cop, was a security guard. That seems to be what a lot of the good ones wind up as.
I know a younger city cop who is such worthless scum that you wouldn't believe how bad he is unless you knew him yourself.
Not all cops are as bad as described by Roberts, but, despite the objections from certain cops on this thread, I must agree with Mr Roberts and PCh @7. As for the psychological and emotional problems that many cops have, they aren't unique to them, but certainly seem more prevalent and more pronounced. How much of it comes from the stress caused by the dangers of the job is anyone's guess.
As society, the schools, simple decency, sense of honour and duty, and the law all degenerate, the police degenerate right along with them. There really is a 'cop mentality' and I've seen it in action. It gets worse over time and with each generation.
Well Gents,
Since we are all PROBLEM SOLVING conservatives....................
1)What are your suggestions to stopping people from having sex in public parks when aforesaid parks are known for that activity and its become a nuisance?
2)What are your suggestions to stopping street prostitution?
3) What are your suggestions to stopping pedophiles cyberstalking and meeting youngsters in chat rooms and meeting them for sex or sex for money?
You cannot simply complain about methods being used and offer no solutions. We cannot simply allow street prostituion, pedophilia, and public nudity and sex to happen. If any of you say this stuff should be legal, you probably should be reading an utterly libertarian online webzine.
How bout it gents? What are the solutions? This is going to be a much smarter than average crowd, so I expect a few of you will really have some good ideas.
@ Mr Miles:
Yes, I would like to see some ideas......
same ol same ol....
@miles
"1)What are your suggestions to stopping people from having sex in public parks when aforesaid parks are known for that activity and its become a nuisance?
2)What are your suggestions to stopping street prostitution?
3) What are your suggestions to stopping pedophiles cyberstalking and meeting youngsters in chat rooms and meeting them for sex or sex for money? "
1) Given that the anonymous sex in the park is taking place right there in public, do what "little Jimmy" does and walk into the bushes and catch them flagrante delicto. I know it is kind of outside the box ...
2)Observation and arrest on detection of the transaction. Too much work? Well, last I checked duty doesn't ask the price required. An aggressive campaign to jail pimps might be needed as well, and given the proclivity for criminals to inform on one another with the slightest inducement hardly impossible.
3)Parental responsibility and aggressive prosecution of detected offenders. By- the-way, having some witch hunting group such as Perverted Justice grease the skids sets a truly dangerous precedent and is to be condemned.
This does seem like a rather silly use of police resources.
Since our society doesn't morally discriminate between sex and sodomy, I guess this could be a result of "leveling" with respect to who gets arrested for public sex incidents. Concerned parents are (understandably) pushing for public-bathroom-haunting sodomites to be arrested, so perhaps the police have to entrap straight men in the name of equality?
@ #53
1) Don't use public parks. There a million better things to do.
2) Not even Scripture outlaws prostitution. But it warns a man to stay away from strange women. Teach your children likewise.
3) Keep your kids off the Internet. If nothing else they're liable to get sucked into conversations like this one.
I hear the tone of outrage from Marty and others, whom I believe to be good policemen doing their duty, and I regret having offended them. A good cop has a tough job and deserves gratitude and respect, but what about firefighters? I believe they risk their lives perhaps more routinely than policemen.
Let me reduce the question to bare-bones simplicity. If the police exist to enforce the law according to our traditions, then they will frequently have to let the guilty go, when a bit of evidence planting or rule-twisting will put the felons away. The alternative is to make the police into cops, judge, and jury. If the latter is the case--on the theory that the ends justify the means--then we all have to protect ourselves from the police as much as from the criminals. Or, rather, we have to acknowledge there is no important difference.
American police forces have been seriously corrupt throughout most of the last century. Organized crime persists because it is protected by the criminal justice system and by semi-respectable business partners--Joe Kennedy was only the most infamous. With this history in mind, ordinary Americans would be very foolish if they conceded to the police some sweeping power to violate the norms of law and tradition because they are acting in our best interest. Finally, I do not want agents of a government that encourages vice--by decriminalizing fornication, adultery, pornography, and teaches immorality in the schools--to increase their power to regulate morality. If the cops really want to help encourage virtue, they should be arresting all the college presidents who preside over colleges with coed dorms. Instead of posting pictures of the pathetic men who pick up prostitutes or persecuting oversexed firemen, they should be turned loose against the institutions tha are prostituting our children--the schools and colleges. Until that day comes, I'd rather let the good times roll in the parks instead of paying good money to cops who are paid to protect the real criminals.
@ #57 Rublev's Dog
You wrote:
“2) Not even Scripture outlaws prostitution. But it warns a man to stay away from strange women. Teach your children likewise.”
I’m pretty sure that both the sixth Commandment (You shall not commit adultery) & the ninth Commandment (You shall not covet your neighbour's wife) condemns, forbids & "outlaws" just about every impurity a man can imagine.
Any sex which is genuinely being conducted in public can be stopped by citizen's arrest or for that matter citizen's harrassment, using the now ubiquitous tool of the camera phone. With street prostitutes, use long range audio and camera surveillance to gather evidence without the use of decoys. It might also be well to tolerate and regulate brothels. Government should not promote vice in order to make arrests, but also need not dedicate itself to completely stamping out all vice.
The answer to on-line sexual predators is parental supervision, but this is also a case where the government needs to supervise the parents who not only permit their kids to often set up on-line porn sites but even assist them to set up "child model" sites designed specifically to attract pedophiles who turn over money for the child's "education" in exchanged for racier pictures. There is nothing particularly secret about these sites, but the FBI considers them "borderline" and leaves them alone. So parents get a free pass to pimp their kids or let their kids pimp themselves, while law enforcement uses cyber vigilantes to pretend to be sexually precocious kids in order to seduce "predators" - all for the sake of TV ratings.
It is a fair question to ask how laws against entrapment are to be reconciled with certain police procedures that are sometimes necessary to lure the potential criminal into criminal acts. In the latter however there must be a serious suspicion that a person is willing or about to commit those acts. This suspicion must be more thorough than the normal suspicion of a law enforcement officer. It could be based on the testimony of an informer, or a witness, or the report of an infiltrator perhaps. This is often used against organized crime, but not necessarily. It is important to realize that the culpable intentions of the suspect are not influenced by the law enforcement officer. Don’t get fixated on the fireman’s penis or fantasies about decoy hookers to catch serial killers. Some of you claim to understand entrapment but you clearly don’t.
Michael Warning:
There is no salvation by good works.
As long as man thinks he can save himself, America will remain a Godless country. Salvation is by Jesus Christ alone. Any religious institution that teaches that you can avoid hell by something you, a mortal man, does is leading you straight into Godlessness.
If salvation is by way of an institution, then it is mortal men of that institution, with their carnal desires, that control you.
ALL human institutions fail. Every last one of them. NO institution is the True Faith.
The True Faith is in Jesus Christ alone. The True Church is made up of believers in him, not believers in an institution. Good works are the fruits of salvation; salvation is not the fruit of human works.
Believers in an institution are idolators. Think about it!
Our paramilitary police are a perfect example that all human institutions eventually fail. Our paramilitary police began ostensibly to stop crime, but I dare say that in many cities, more crime is committed by police than is stopped by them.
So it is even with human religious institutions. Even Churches founded by the Biblical apostles fall into error, and I think every one already has and will at some point need thorough-going Reform to stay true to Christ.
One thing a couple of you mentioned was "parental responsibility".
Folks, we just cant "force" people to be good parents. That is not within our power. We can lecture, run ads, etc., but that is "outside" the law---as it should be.
I had to wonder what Paul Craig Roberts would think about Kirt Higdon's mention of, "With street prostitutes, use long range audio and camera surveillance to gather evidence without the use of decoys. It might also be well to tolerate and regulate brothels"
Kirt, alot of libertarian-leaning folk are very much against public cameras that are installed at traffic lights and telephone polls. We have some in the projects in a suburb of Nashville called Mufreesboro (seperate county though, nice city). I kind of feel that they are very 1984-ish, but admit that there is alot less open drug dealing out of doors with these things. The kids know that they are there, and that they are watched. Usage of long range audio in a police van is easier said than done as streetwalkers will pick up on that kind of thing. You'd have to have some businesses agree to having them placed there, or perhaps some small hidden boxes at the top of some telephone polls (but you run into that survellience state concern again, and rightfully so in my opinion as those things could be used to just spy on people). I'll get to your mention of legalizing brothels in a second, but must admit that Christ's admonishment of "fornicators and adulturers, ye shall not enter the kingdom of heaven" kinda would have led me to believe you would have been against those personally. But thats OK and all.
Let me get to the DATELINE NBC's usage of "pedophile stings". Dateline found out that various police departments were conducting these kind of stings and wanted to televise some of them, not the other way around. Dateline, of course, was just interested in ratings. However, the departments conducting them were doing this before getting on televsion (although many more departments jumped on the bandwagon and the allure of TV lights and being on TV unfortunately is inevitablely going to get some staffs to want to be on television). The sting is simple, the police have a desk guy work the computer in teen chatrooms and wait for a pedophile to enter the room and "want to talk" to an underage girl. If he wants to meet and have sex with her (probably at "her" suggestion), and "she" sets up a meet, the cops will be waiting in the house after he takes off some clothing etc. Its just like we see on TV.
Believe it or not, the reason that the police departments wanted this on TV is so that online perverts will think that every underage kid they speak to online might just be a cop. There is no way they can supervise the entire internet chat community. There is no way they can arrest kids and teens who are willing to meet adults and can ride a bicycle, open their front door, or even have a driving work permit and can car over somewhere themselves. Its much like the prostitution stings that we publicize in the paper. Its meant to scare the potentials out there and thus decrease foot traffic for a year or so. Those men who show up, are willing to start getting undressed, drive for hours in some cases aren't showing up to talk to those kids guys. They are there to have sex with a fifteen year old. But if you think this is an unconsitutional way to catch them................................we cannot really arrest the kids. Their parents are often at work, so how can we really blame them? Higdon is very correct that a few teenagers are probably willing to meet strangers for money and openly solicit it. It would involve a rather unusual police procedure to actually try to meet and arrest a sixteen year old girl turning tricks online though. The public really wouldn't like that and the cops would absolutely hate doing it (good luck on getting anyone to volunteer for that duty).
Are we back to public service announcements and school parent-teacher confrerences where an officer is invited to speak to parents about this as our only line of defense against online pedophiles and predators? We are responsible conservatives, so we can agree to disagree, so if some of you think thats enough, its fine with me.
On the Brothels for Kirt. We used to have 10 or more brothels in Nashville. They'd advertise in a weekly free paper that is a local "copycat" paper of "The Village Voice", and in a magazine that used to be distributed in adult bookstores. They'd print pictures of the girls who worked therein in some cases, and hourly rates, along with pictures of the business and its 'private' parking lot 'in the back' that was 'secure' . They claimed to be "massage parlors". Some had been in business since the early 1970's in Nashville. We had about 10 of them at any one time. A big sting operation was set up in which officers would go in undercover, pay their money, get it on tape and make an arrest when she got undressed, etc. We had all these business padlocked in less than two months. Our new chief Ronal Serpas decided to put an end to prostituion in this city (and he has done a damn fine job of it). We had streetwalker-sting operations that invovled undercover policewomen repeatedly for about two years, and with the help of the TENNESSEAN (a paper I actually hate) publishing the names of the caught persons, we pretty much wiped out prostitution on Nashville's notorious Dickerson Road. You could drive down Dickerson Road on a summer night in the early 80's and see twenty prostitutes EASILY guys. You will see none now. We had stings against "escort services" and individual escorts with websites. We'd bust them, and they'd even get on the TV news (which was harsh in my opinion) but everybody would know that the gal down the street was busted offering sex for money via the internet.
We also had stings in our strip clubs because the dancers were offering sex for money (and oral sex in the private rooms of the clubs therein). We padlocked three clubs where dancers were videod performing sex acts on patrons and offering sex acts for money with undercover officers. We have about five or six strip clubs left, and I have to say the establishments we have left are run by some pretty responsible business people that dont want prostitution going on therein at this point THEMSELVES. They want college gals and the like and not twenties-druggies who are holding onto their looks, working for them.
Our convention industry in Nashville has suffered since 2001-2002, when most of this went down. Do you want to know when escort services operators told us was their best time for business guys? Swear to God. The Southern Babtist Convention. Big money for them. Lots of sex from those preachers who really looked forward to visiting our city back then. Our mayor and political class want to blame this on our convention center dating from the eighties, but its an OK building. Its the lack of availablility of the prostitutes that has slowed it down in my opinion-as we still have strip clubs.
However. if undercover policewomen and sting operations offend the sensibilities of paleoconservatives (which I am, a Reagan Democrat if there ever was one), that is fine with me. We would have to go back to arresting the girls and harrassing them. The social services bunch don't like this because we are sentencing young women to jail and probation over and over when alot of them are in financial desperation due to drugs and dont really own anything (except their fading looks). We tried that in the seventies, eighties, and nineties. It didn't work out too well. Under our old police department heads back in the day, we had enough officers who would warn the massage parlors about impending stings so that they never netted much of anything. It changed under Serpas (who is a real stickler for speeding tickets, just so you know). The thing about arresting the girls, is that some of these gals are transient between major southern cities while they are in the life, and after a few arrests in our town, they just can go to Atlanta for a while , etc. Missed court dates dont really bother these kinds of people. After a gal gets on meth or crack badly enough, she will do anything for it and will live in hotel after hotel to stay on the stuff. The stings that targeted the men were to try and catch guys WHO HAD SOMETHING TO LOSE. Usually after one arrest, a severe-talking to by a judge, a little probation, court-cost, some meetings they'd have to attend as rules of their probation, having to get a lawyer, and the ignonomy of being put int he back of a police car with handcuffs on, and having to get someone to bail them out of a jail that they sat in for a couple of hours, being printed, photo'ed and processed, you'd be suprised how the police almost always NEVER SEE THAT dude again cruising for sex. It IS effective.
The argument can (and has) been made that the health-board monitored "massage" parlors were a beneficial way to have sex for pay in our city, in which property taxes were at least paid on the buildings for some revenue. These were cash businesses, so they dodge any kind of income tax. The liscenses would have been pricey (I dont know how high they were), but the areas in which they were in would not generate a great deal of property tax. The main street for this stuff was Eighth Avenue. Its amazing at how Eighth has developed in the past five years with new builidngs, business, pedestrian traffic, and general clean up since these businesses were shut down. There were about five or six brothels in a mile and a half stretch of road where there is a car dealership, tire stores, gas stations, antique shops (ritzy antiques), a couple of gay bars, a straight bar, a bowling alley (great old one), fast food joints, a boat store, and some warehouses. Its revitalized now and cleaned up. The merchants on this street are ecstatic about it as are the merchants on Dickerson Road.
Las Vegas and Reno are the places to pay for sex in this nation in my opinion. There may be other places where it is legal, but if men dont want to be in the newspaper, be booked, etc. That is the place to go. Thats why I dont feel all that sorry for some of the guys who get busted on stings for street prostition in particular. They know this stuff is illegal and the public should not have to look at strutting women selling it. Im kind of ambivalent about individual women offering sex online out of their homes, but when you think about it...................we have AIDS and other drug-resistant STD's now. It would almost be better if the state regulated that and checked them out every couple of weeks. Its imperitave that they keep it INDOORS to me personally. Kids should not have to look at it. If a council makes brothels legal, the citizens of the aforesaid city can vote them out if they dont want it in their city. I'll tell you this........................brothel girls would not make near as much money as "independent" girls on the net because about half what they make is giong to go to "the house". The house in turn is obviously going to provide some security for them in terms of a bouncer and they probably aren't going to get murdered there, etc. Prostitution and cocaine go hand and hand though. Most of these women eventually get on drugs to deal with the psychological stress of being made to have sex when you dont feel like it and are even repulsed by who you are having it with physically, even though you are being paid. The whores dont enjoy it, I guarantee you that. So, in reducing drug-using and drug-buying prostitutes, a city will see a decrease in drug traffic as the walkers are usually some of the biggest users out there (as their pimps are often users also, but usually not as badly addicted as the girls). The "Nevada-as-our-national-red-light-district" seems to be the best option in my opinion.
If anyone thinks consensual pedophilia should be legal.................Im afraid we will just have to agree to disagree. I'll never be supportive of that.
Dr Roberts and Dr Fleming are right on as usual. Americans are being squeezed. On one side you have the State and it's Gang and on the other side you have what are basically barbarians. Only one problem, the State does not make a lot of money off of the barbarians. They're generally minorities, been in and out of jail since youth and probably gang members. They won't hesitate to shoot back and they have never had any respect for law to begin with. The State makes very little money off of policing these people and it is also very dangerous. On the other hand, the mostly law abiding working man or educated upper middle class guy with a job and a family is a cash cow. He has a little expendable income, something to lose and 9 out of 10 times he won't shoot back. The State's Gang will take the path of most profit and least resistance every time.
I also echo Bronco's thoughts on the article.
I would also like to address what Miles was saying and how times have changed. Why is it that years ago we had safer parks with much fewer, less confrontational cops?
Because the men of the community would have kicked the asses of those in question and the "law" would have affirmed their authority to do so.
I wonder how many cops have been beat up, maimed, or shot after abusing the wrong person with "verbal judo?"
Does anyone remember the days--back in the 50's and earlier--when a policeman was unfailingly polite, if he pulled over a middle-class driver--would act respectfully to the citizen who, while he may have been driving too fast or without a brake light--paid his salary? Will Miles and the other officers be kind enough to explain to me why police are now almost unfailingly rude to the citizens who employ them? Nashville may well be different from every place I have lived in America, where the cops are routinely corrupt. I knew one a few years ago, who finally lost his job when money and drugs seized in a raid turne up in his locker some days later. His excuse? He was taking antihistamines, which clouded his mind. If the excuse were believable, it would be scary to think that such a scatter-brain (famous for beating up suspects) was carrying a gun. By the way, I think he was basically a good officer, one of the better ones, who genuinely believed he was doing good work, even if he had fallen into some bad habits.
With all due respect to the policemen writing in, I would like to know where they got the idea that it is their job to enforce a moral law for which every government of the USA has shown contempt. If fornication and adultery are ok, why is paying for sex a problem? And even if it is, what makes it the business of an anti-christian government agency? These same cops, remember, can be called out to beat up and arrest anti-abortion demonstrators, protect pornographers, and arrest Christian home-schoolers who refuse to comply with abusive state laws. Which one of you policeman would turn in his badge under such circumstances? Until I see your pledges signed in blood, you cannot be trusted. Miles say he cannot countenance pedophiles? Oh really? What is the punishment for child-molestors in this country? I read of cases of 2 years in a funny farm, when in any decent society they would be executed. they cannot even put them in a state prison, because ordinary felons will kill them. I interpret this to mean that ordinary felons have a higher moral sense than our judges, prosecutors, and legislators.
What Dr. Fleming says is true. My wife and I know of a case in which a child molester was caught and sent to prison...for 5 years.
If we want to get technical about Scripture, a child molester should pay with his life, not prison time. The O.T. contemplates restitution, not jailbirds.
Meanwhile, I've had a flashlight shined in my face, been questioned and treated suspiciously by the local Barney Fifes while out walking my dog late at night. We continue living in what Sam Francis rightly called "anarcho-tyranny."
rather, "...treated with suspicion..."
Dr. Fleming,
Thanks for the posts. I am not outraged, I have been spit on, kicked, punched and lied about too many times to be outraged now. I was just a bit dejected when one of my intelecutual heros called me an idiot.
Well, back in the 50's Dr. Fleming I bet not to many civil libertarians like your self told cops they pad them their salary. I bet they were respectful and did not spit or swing at cops. So, there was a mutual respect. You on the hand think I am an idiot and I lie. I wish my job would let me video every step I made and every contact with the public.
I do appreciate what you wrote about fireman. I have run into three live fires in my career and have nothing but respect for what they expericing the smoke an heat.
My objection to Dr. Roberts was not this case. It was his last paragraph.
I do not want to enforce a moral law. But , this is not fornication. It was sex in public. I don't care if there was sex in a hotel room.
I don't want porn DVDs sold to my kids in candy store and I expect police to enforce those regualtions. I don't care if you watch it at home. I think the Dateline NBC adn these other stings are nutty.
Also, I have NEVER been called out to "beat up" abortion protestors and if I was, I would quit. When I get to Rockford I will sign it in blood.
Rublev,
You mean a cop cared about you, your property and your family that he questioned what you were doing late at night. I work in a bigge city so, I don't know the tactics in that area and mybe I too would disagree.
Most people when I stop them thank me for being out there watching the street.
I guess you guys here are too smart for those stupid everyday people.
Did Sam Francis call us Middle Americans?
Police enforce an uneven justice, which tends to make the public cynical about police motives. Consider drunk driving. Road blocks with alcohol checks are the norm at certain nights of the year with the police trying to nail anyone who can blow an .07 or better. In Washington DC, one entrepreneurial policeman famously was writing DUI tickets against men and women who had had one glass of wine at supper, using a rather expansive concept of the term Driving Under the Influence. Yet anyone who knows the escapades at a National Football League tailgating party(heavy drinking and grilling up to four hours before the game begins) knows that a large percentage of the drivers leaving an NFL stadium at game's end are legally drunk. NFL events have swarms of police who know that hundreds and probably thousands of drunk drivers are in their midst but the police do nothing. Instead, the police encourage the drunken fans to leave the stadium parking lot and drive home.
That last paragraph did go too far; Roberts just got carried away again, no worries.
I'm no fan of entrapment either...
Well Since I do have family and a job, and yes I still believe I am doing Opus Dei. I pray to St. Michael everyday when putting on my uniform to be a terror to bad guys, respectful of liberty and all good persons.
I really do believe in ordered liberty and I am glad that I can by my presence protect freedom for families including my own.
That said as a fan of Chronicles I hope that they will continue the fight:
Against the over-federalization of police, support small local police forces, the second amendment, the fourth amendment, Ordered Liberty but not the ideology of liberty.
I don't mind critics. But, remember that many cops would agree with the arguments but feel the need to defend themselves on these pages at times.
And who knows, maybe someday Dr. Fleming could hire me to head the Rockford Institutes Law Enforcement Wing.
Marty
Let me give you my perspective as a 15 year Vincentian caseworker in West Texas:
The police are immeasurably worse than even Mr. Roberts paints them. I repeat, immeasurably worse.
I've done in home visits of the poor, almost exclusively, the working, minority poor, (you know, those people most Protestants and Secularists would cross the street to avoid saying hello to), for 15 years of my adult life and they have a consistent tale of woe regarding ANY interaction with the police and courts in our society. These tales, accumulated over more than a decade, always involve the same key points:
1) Regular use of tasers.
2) Routine planting of evidence.
3) Shakedowns and solitaction of bribery.
4) Complete failure to provide knowledge of legal rights.
5) Illegal searches so routine as to not even arouse comment.("You mean I can REFUSE to allow the cops to search my car?" Try hearing that one 500 times.)
6) Unhesitating use of force, especially batons.
And all of it with one constact aim in mind: MONEY. The hatred the working poor of this country have towards cops and courts is legitimate and earned.
The police are an organized gang of armed robbers with guns and badges. Nothing more, nothing less, nothing else. This question I sometimes ask at Mass: "When this town becomes majority Hispanic, which will happen in the next 20 years, and your Anglo kids are pulled over by Hispanic cops, with Hispanic prosecutors, and Hispanic judges, how do you think they are going to be treated?" Well everybody, you'd better start building up your tolerance to electricity right now.
Thomas Fleming,
There has obviously been a "militarization" of alot of police forces in attitude and training. As in any job, you are going to have some outright jerks too. Some power-hungry men are drawn to jobs that allow them to boss other people around just like that unlikable, backstabbing, dishonest, conniving co-worker at the office we all have has his/her sights on the bosses job and will brown-nose, lie, take resposibility for others accomplishments, etc. just so they can one day "be the boss" and act out their hatred of humanity on those with subordinate legal relationships with them.
When we are pulled over for driving a bit too fast, we face someone who has a legal superordinate relationship with us. Sometimes, they can't personally handle that authority and are absolute hardasses. Sometimes they may be someone with a psychological profile that should have never gotten that job. Its definitely worse than what it used to be. Our society is more abrasive than what it used to be. Cops have to deal with non-English-speaking gangbanging thugs, illegal immigrants who should not even be here, third-and-forth generation underclass minorities who were taught to hate the police from the time they were in elementary school, and sometimes brazenly argumentative people who act piously offended that they cannot talk their way out of a 25 mph over the speed limit ticket and will call the officer every name you can imagine in doing so. You are going to get some rude, abusive police officers with a Jupiter-complex.
Always complain. Get a lawyer and file a formal complaint against the officer if he manhandled you uneccessarily, or used profanity, etc. Be polite while you are pulled over and kill him with kindness if possible. Remember, most cruisers in big cities have cameras in the grills so its probably being taped. If a cop is complained about over and over and over again, trust me..............the brass notices this. They might move him to jail duty (and this is what happens to alot of the real problematic cops that the public complains about, they are removed from interaction with the public as much as possible).
What Paul Craig Roberts is doing is a service. Letting the public know that they aren't alone and that there are some hard-on officers is a good thing. But like in any job, personell isn't going to catch every bad apple, and some men will go bad on the job over the years like in any other walk of life. I wish the fifties, sixties, and seventies would come back too, but I really dont think its realistic to expect them to at this point. Our LAWS being screwed up and jurisprudence, and the probation "industry", the abuse of domestic violence laws, and the endless efforts to hamstring the second amendment are also big problems related to law enforcement other than Cops with very bad attitudes and the "occupying force mentality" and subculture in some departments. There are alot of things that about 20 years of Reaganite-leadership could do for this nation with a helpful congress, and a better judiciary, but I digress.
Marty (#71) I was being sarcastic -- my apologies. I believe Sam Francis was correct, generally speaking. But I realize officers have no say over the courts or policy.
And yes, I too have thanked officers on many occasions for doing their jobs. But there is a marked change in tone among many of the newer officers -- a reflection of bureacracy, which I'm guessing is a response to the cultural deterioration of my home town.
@Paul:
"(you know, those people most Protestants and Secularists would cross the street to avoid saying hello to)"
That is an imbecilic aside. My Protestant parents have devoted their lives to "those people," Paul, working at the (Protestant) Rockford Rescue Mission. I know the employees, the volunteers, the myriad Protestant churches in this area that give of their time and money to help people who are homeless, sick, drug-addicted, drunks, etc. And I can't think of any Roman Catholic whom I know who would slander Protestants in that way. Can't we stick to arguing (not on this thread) over justification and the role of tradition, and leave out baseless ad hominem attacks?
Mr. Wolf 78 re Paul 75:
As a Texan and a Protestant myself, I believe I can understand some of what Paul is driving at with his "Ad Hominem" remark regarding Protestants and Secularists. The underclass in most of our towns is invariably Hispanic, therefore Catholic. The middle and upper classes are invariably Protestant, mostly from what are our "mainline" denominations in Texas - that is Baptist, Methodist, and Church of Christ. There are few, if any, Presbyterians, Episcopalians, or Lutherans.
That there are few Anglos that are Catholic simply adds to the antipathy the middle and upper classes feel toward the underclass.
Few if any Presbyterians, Episcopalians, or Lutherans in Texas? You might want to reconsider that statement.
And you also may want to change "invariably" to "nominally" in several cases.
Either way, it was a pointless and inaccurate statement. As a Texan and a protestant, I reject it as a qualifier. All of us will certainly respond to situations under the influence of various social/ethnic/economic/moral factors...but being a protestant does not cause anyone to side with illegitimate use of authority or to oppose the poor
An interesting dialouge. Dr. Roberts and Dr. Fleeming are both correct, in my opinon, based on my limited interaction with police and sherrif departments. Here in the Commonwealth of Virginia, one is taking a serious gamble when interacting with these departments. The Commonwealth has a long documented history of allowing the application of deadly force without justification nor with consequence to these officers and deputies wrongly applying deadly force. The two comments that ring true to me are the ramifications of the militarized policing function and the outright rudeness of many of these officers and deputies. It appears the Taser is the latest tool of intimidation. If you feel brave, have witnesses, and a fully funded medical policy, just try videoing any officer or deputy that stops you.... As in most of what this society has brought us, a successful strategy is to stay off the sky-line, keep moving, and never- ever seek involvement with the police - they unevenly enforce laws and are not in the business of just outcomes.
In college (I was of legal drinking age at the time) I was leaving a party at the house of a friend of mine. I finished my beer as I walked out the door and placed the empty can in a municipal trash can that was on the sidewalk. Just as I did a cop car flew up and the cop jumped out, grabbed me, grabbed the beer can and proceded to say that I had violated the open container law. I told him that I was merely placing an empty can in the garabage, as I assume is the purpose of the municipal garabage can. He began to scream at me, got beat red, and placed me in handcuffs and in the back of his car. He then flew the wrong way down several one way streets placing me and others in danger and took me to the police station where I sat handcuffed for hours and was not allowed to use the bathroom or call anyone. When he released me the cop said I was "lucky" that I was of legal age or else he would have given me an underage drinking citation as well. I ended up with a $200 fine and half a night in jail for placing an empty beer can in the trash.
Mr. Anderson:
I suspect your neighborhood and background must be a little more upscale than mine. I venture to estimate the number of Episcopalians, Presbyterians and Lutherans - combined - in any rural community West of I-35 and South of I-20 as less than 2%.
I'm sure there are "invariably" numerous white trash communities in other parts of the state so that a "nominally" hispanic underclass prevails across most of the state.
My point concerning Mr. Wolf's chiding of Paul is simply that there is nothing but protestants in charge. Whether or not their callousness is due to their protestantism is to argue causality improperly. However, as an observation, his statement is understandable, if hyperbolous, given the cultural and ethnic makeup of our communities.
I'm certainly not trying to argue that protestants are callous and catholics charitable, I'm simply trying to help frame Paul's comment so that Mr. Wolfe might better understand the context of his statement.
Savvy?
Marty, I did not intend to call you an idiot, if that is what I did. I am responding late at night in Italy, when I have the time, and writing quickly in generalities. I appreciate how rude people can be to the police, and I have seen it, but I have experienced incredible behavior from policemen even when I was entirely polite and respectful. One illinois highway patrolman, who stopped me for speeding, was deeply offended when I refused to admit I was going 10 miles over the speed limit when I knew I was not--I had seen the speed traps and set my cruise control to avoid trouble. He then walked around teh car looking for violations until I told him that we would see each other in court if he made one more move. I don't think it is just a question of jerks but of a generalized culture of arrogance. I should say in fairness that I have run into a number of decent men over the past 20 years, but, unfortunately, they are in the minority (though in Canada they seem to be still the majority.
I don't think good cops lie or abuse the people. My point is only that even if good cops are in the majority, there are too many rogues and, what is worse, a culture of corruption that limits the effectiveness of what they do. The problem is not with the police, good and bad, but with the criminal justice system as a whole, a system that reflects the attitudes of the ruling class. What I would like to see--and I have obviously been to impatient to argue the point convincingly or eirenically (I threatened to punch out an Albanian tonight after my lecture in Rome, so I have a long way to go in growing up) is that policemen should try to think of themselves as citizens as well as law-enforcers. I loved Dirty Harry and all the other "vigilantee movements" but I did not stop to think that Dirty Harry might turn dirty some day and abuse his power not just against the scum but against the rest of us. I had two great uncles who were heroes on the Chicago police force. If they took a few favors now and then, it did not compromise their good work. But the same might have been said about the ward-heelers who were also in the family. Times have changed, however, and the middle classes are not being given the treatment that used to be reserved for criminals. My friend Roger McGrath is annoyed by my suspicions, but I can only speak from my own experience and although I am a law-abiding citizen, I fear the sight of a police cruiser. What if I can't find--as I usually cannot--my proof of insurance. It means wasting a couple of hours in court, apoligizing to the judge for my inattention.
Here is one little example of the problem: In one day in Rockford, armed thugs perpetrated a couple of carjackings and robbed a store. Inevitably, they were described as young males with dark hair and brown eyes. Now, I think I know what they meant, but the fact that the police department will not identify the race of a criminal, if he is black or Mexican, tells me that it is part of a government network that wants to subjugate us to what we politely call political correctness when we really mean anti-white racial discrimination.
I am not a "civil libertarian." It is only that I believe the rule of law is better than anarchy controlled by mercenaries. I don't have much pity for American criminals and believe the crimes of violence or threatened violence should be treated far more harshly than they are. On the other hand, i don't think embezzlers, dog-fighters, or intoxicated pop arts should be sent to jail to be raped and assaulted, and I do think the police should always remember, even when it hurts, that they are public servants and not working on their own account.
Always complain sounds good unless you happen to be living in a mob town like Rockford. When I made the mistake of being politically active, I was frequently tailed home from my favorite watering hole. I did not notice at first, but others did. Keep a low profile is the best procedure in a place like this. You cannot go wrong by assuming the worst.
Peace to all good and honest cops who put their lives on the line for us but have to work within a corrupt system that does no good for most of us.
Buona notte.
The above is full of late-night typos. I should be vigilantee movies and now being given the treatment etc.
Mr. Oren,
Your assumption about an upscale neighborhood and background couldn't be farther off. Take a trip to north Memphis Tennessee, just east of downtown and you can see the environment I knew as a youngster. But don't go alone, and don't go at night.
I now live a 5 minute drive from one of the largest, poorest hispanic communities in North Texas.
Texas, as you indicated, not specifically west Texas...second largest district of the LCMS, third (by some estimates now second) largest presbytery of the PCA, the two most highly attended (now former) Episcopal churches in the United States. The German descended population of largely rural south central Texas still supports several Lutheran and Roman Catholic communities. I've been from Tyler to El Paso and from McAllen to Amarillo...the profile you offered of these groups in this state is simply inaccurate.
And to argue callousness on any level associated with protestantism among those who are only nominally protestant (therefore, not truly protestant) is to make a pointless statement.
Savvy?
Any man stupid enough to approach a half naked woman lurking under a tree in a park is one dumb S.O.B. and deserves what he gets! Any guy with street smarts knows damn good and well that a woman in a her right mind is not just going to break off a piece and send it your way.
In the mid eighties I worked out at a ratty gym behind a bar in Northeast Baltimore frequented by City cops. I learned many things about the kind of men that the State gives the power to kill. The vast majority were on steroids ("illegal" steroids of course. They considered it a "tool of the trade" ), drank and drove regularly with no consequence thanks to their fellow gang members, enjoyed beating people whenever possible ( that includes their wife or girlfriend, once again with hardly any consequence ) In addition they were big on getting sex from "cop groupie whores while on the graveyard shift to stave off boredom.
The man who attacked Snell jumped the fence and "leaped on the vehicle with Ed and catapulted him off of the vehicle and onto the ground," said John McTernan, a fellow activist and good friend of Snell.
Snell's friends called 911 when it appeared he was unconscious. When police arrived, witnesses identified the assailant, only to be met with arrest threats from the female officer who was dispatched. She allowed the attacker to go free, and police only arrested the man after the serious nature of Snell's injuries was released.
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2008/jan/08010203.html
Watcha gonna do when they come for you?
One thing to remember is that if you are pulled in by the police without any chargeable offense, they will create one. A blow to back the head, for example, can cause great damage and pain to you while leaving but a small bruise hidden under the hair in the scalp. The reason for doing this, is that when so stricken, the victim will have the automatic response to defend himself. Such self-defense will allow the police instantly to up the charges from nothing to an assault of a police agent.
Any police agent reading and posting here who pretends this does not exist is no more to be trusted than one who pretends he does not know what a "throw down" is. You can bet that he is one of the bad ones.
I should add that the beauty of the blow to the back of the head is that the victim himself will not know if there is a bruise; that is, any corroborative evidence of the assault. If he were knocked out, he might not remember enough even to ask a friend to check through his hair. Then if he does bring it up, he will face the assumption that he must have done something to deserve it, when in reality the police were angry about wasting time with him for whom they had no reason to hold.
Now if the victim has unusual self-control and did not react in self-defense, the blow should do its job by getting him quickly to plead guilty to petty bozo charges, and the public will never know anything happened.
@Dr. Fleming: Your comment about "here in Italy" recalls what I was thinking as I scrolled through this web site on a less-than-adequately productive Sunday afternoon: thank God I am out of the United States.
The collapse of America's morals and sense of place and people started at the top and was pretty thoroughly finished by the 1930's and the 1940's. The 1960's saw that spread to the general populace. Not surprisingly, this was followed by a massive wave of crime. It is no coincidence that for much of the 1970's and 1980's
And of course, the immoral and power-hungry ruling class--politicians, journalists and academics alike--would not admit that the sudden spike in violent crime were the fruits of the seeds they had sown, of dechristianization and atomization of neighborhoods (through forced integration, urban renewal, and the like--to say absolutely nothing of insane immigration policies that encouraged and overlooked the development of ethnic gans, La Cosa Nostra and Bratva being only the most notorious).
(No wonder we view businessmen more highly than the afforementioned three: they make no secret about the fact that they are after, first and foremost, money. At least we know what we are dealing with.)
So to quiet down the public, they have given us a brutal police force as the "solution" to our crime problem.
And until their feet are held to the fire for their sins, we will see more violent crime, and more police brutality in response.
Dr. Fleming is correct that firefighting is much more dangerous than police work---nearly twice as much.
In simple terms, we as a society have gone from respecting law enforcement to fearing law enforcement...............That would be a normal reaction if one was involved in some form of illegal activity, but legal citizens now live in fear of "Armed and dangerous Tax collecters"!.......Which is the basics of overstaffed legal institutions called police forces. They are part of the "Legal Community" and require crime for job security..........Bedroom communities of 12,000 now have 20+ cops on the payroll, and with a maxed out tax system, need to generate more revenue for swatt gear, sniper rifles, bullet proof vests, etc..............The normal aproach to justice these days is, "Throw everyone into the system, and let the innocent ones come out broke, and the guilty ones go to prison broke, but at least WE HAVE THEIR MONEY!".......The problem with this system is that, it COSTS money to catch real criminals, yet, abusing hard working citizens with radar guns is profitable!(They send their check in, and keep working). DUI, DWI, and drunk driving is a massive winfall of profits for everyone, as the lawyers and bondsmen, judges, court reporters, etc, all get a share of the pie. Classes are actualy taught to cops on the correct way to deliver his lines as an actor on the stage.(Court) i/e "The defendent nervously fumbled with his door release, while overlooking his seatbelt harness,etc,etc."
We are now the zebras on the plains of the seregetti knowing that the blue light will catch someone, but who will it be this morning?..............It is a POLICE STATE!
Highway patrol and local police are all thugs.
It's all about money. They can stop anybody for anything
and can make up any reason they want. We, the people
have nobody to protect us. Yes, we can get a lawyer,
but all they see is money also. We can't turn to our
legislators because they are the recipients of money.
They have all the tools needed to rob people under
the name of the law. How nice. How perfect a scheme.
Seat belt laws are BIGmoney makers. Technically, if I
go 56 in a 55 I could get 150$ fine . How our Hiway
culture is set up is not for the people but against
the people.