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	<title>Comments on: What Is History? Part 7</title>
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	<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/12/29/what-is-history-part-7/</link>
	<description>Your home for traditional conservatism.</description>
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		<title>By: Jack Gates</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/12/29/what-is-history-part-7/comment-page-1/#comment-68018</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Gates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 07:40:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=468#comment-68018</guid>
		<description>Everything of spiritual merit in patently This world can only be metaphoric.

Those who wish to believe their myths &#039;as if&#039; actual and not metaphoric are immature, yet.

This is why Christianity is the best religion in the world for gentiles and jews. It&#039;s the best of both levels of maturity i.e. mature &amp; immature.

And why Judaism is the worst religion in the world for anyone - since it&#039;s sheer myth as if actual and worse - unadjusted anachronism.

And Abe begat ... idiot etc. etc. And it&#039;s supposed to be literal. I&#039;ll give its unadjustedness this - it&#039;s Funny. Like Kissinger. Ahh... Are there any &quot;catholic&quot; jews now going to come out of the woodwork and attack me as a &#039;wacko&#039; ... ? male or female. I&#039;m tellin&#039;Ya - it&#039;s funny. The only guy funnier than kissmyinger is Z-big, the war monger.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everything of spiritual merit in patently This world can only be metaphoric.</p>
<p>Those who wish to believe their myths 'as if' actual and not metaphoric are immature, yet.</p>
<p>This is why Christianity is the best religion in the world for gentiles and jews. It's the best of both levels of maturity i.e. mature &amp; immature.</p>
<p>And why Judaism is the worst religion in the world for anyone - since it's sheer myth as if actual and worse - unadjusted anachronism.</p>
<p>And Abe begat ... idiot etc. etc. And it's supposed to be literal. I'll give its unadjustedness this - it's Funny. Like Kissinger. Ahh... Are there any "catholic" jews now going to come out of the woodwork and attack me as a 'wacko' ... ? male or female. I'm tellin'Ya - it's funny. The only guy funnier than kissmyinger is Z-big, the war monger.</p>
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		<title>By: I am not Spartacus</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/12/29/what-is-history-part-7/comment-page-1/#comment-67770</link>
		<dc:creator>I am not Spartacus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 20:43:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=468#comment-67770</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt; The reliability of the naive&lt;/b&gt;

...&lt;i&gt; Suffice it to note that for the historian the advantage of hagiography and similar popular literature is their ingenuousness, which renders them, from one perspective, reliable beyond suspicion...The less important to the narrator the facts are that interest the historian, the more uninflected and hence more reliable the account will be; indirect evidence tends to be indifferent, and therefore free of tendentiousness or intentional deception&lt;/i&gt;.

&lt;i&gt;Through Their Own Eyes Liturgy as the Byzantines Saw It&lt;/i&gt;     Robert Taft, S.J.

Even though the quote specifically addresses Liturgical history I do think the principle is applicable to secular history.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b> The reliability of the naive</b></p>
<p>...<i> Suffice it to note that for the historian the advantage of hagiography and similar popular literature is their ingenuousness, which renders them, from one perspective, reliable beyond suspicion...The less important to the narrator the facts are that interest the historian, the more uninflected and hence more reliable the account will be; indirect evidence tends to be indifferent, and therefore free of tendentiousness or intentional deception</i>.</p>
<p><i>Through Their Own Eyes Liturgy as the Byzantines Saw It</i>     Robert Taft, S.J.</p>
<p>Even though the quote specifically addresses Liturgical history I do think the principle is applicable to secular history.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicholas G.P. MOSES</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/12/29/what-is-history-part-7/comment-page-1/#comment-67351</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas G.P. MOSES</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 22:26:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=468#comment-67351</guid>
		<description>&quot;The popularity of history can be seen in the existence of the history channel.&quot;

Not to say that the History Channel is, even remotely, worth purchasing or watching.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"The popularity of history can be seen in the existence of the history channel."</p>
<p>Not to say that the History Channel is, even remotely, worth purchasing or watching.</p>
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		<title>By: Lord Karth</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/12/29/what-is-history-part-7/comment-page-1/#comment-67250</link>
		<dc:creator>Lord Karth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 15:02:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=468#comment-67250</guid>
		<description>Mr. Peters:

I&#039;ll go you one better.  The Marxist narrative---indeed, the narrative of the overwhelming majority of political systems above the county or small-state level (where one can actually go and SEE one&#039;s rulers and punch them in the mouth if need be) can be summed up in two sentences:

1) &quot;I know what&#039;s best for you.&quot;

2) &quot;Gimme.&quot;

&#039;Nuff said.

Your servant,

Lord Karth</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Peters:</p>
<p>I'll go you one better.  The Marxist narrative---indeed, the narrative of the overwhelming majority of political systems above the county or small-state level (where one can actually go and SEE one's rulers and punch them in the mouth if need be) can be summed up in two sentences:</p>
<p>1) "I know what's best for you."</p>
<p>2) "Gimme."</p>
<p>'Nuff said.</p>
<p>Your servant,</p>
<p>Lord Karth</p>
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		<title>By: robert m. peters</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/12/29/what-is-history-part-7/comment-page-1/#comment-67040</link>
		<dc:creator>robert m. peters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 03:55:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=468#comment-67040</guid>
		<description>Sorry for the failed double list!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry for the failed double list!</p>
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		<title>By: robert m. peters</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/12/29/what-is-history-part-7/comment-page-1/#comment-67037</link>
		<dc:creator>robert m. peters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 03:54:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=468#comment-67037</guid>
		<description>The Marxist narrative is effective because it is built around a handful of words; I am sure that forumites of Chronicles can add to the list, although it is actually, at least in my experience, not that long:

equality                              the commons

social justice                       the village

worker                                the party

racism                                 human rights

homophobia                       civil rights

gender bias                        the environment

diversity                              plan or program

multiculturalism                   humankind

constructivism                     world peace

sensitivity                            class warfare

change                                hope

transcend                            struggle

awareness                          emancipation

sustainibility                         living wage</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Marxist narrative is effective because it is built around a handful of words; I am sure that forumites of Chronicles can add to the list, although it is actually, at least in my experience, not that long:</p>
<p>equality                              the commons</p>
<p>social justice                       the village</p>
<p>worker                                the party</p>
<p>racism                                 human rights</p>
<p>homophobia                       civil rights</p>
<p>gender bias                        the environment</p>
<p>diversity                              plan or program</p>
<p>multiculturalism                   humankind</p>
<p>constructivism                     world peace</p>
<p>sensitivity                            class warfare</p>
<p>change                                hope</p>
<p>transcend                            struggle</p>
<p>awareness                          emancipation</p>
<p>sustainibility                         living wage</p>
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		<title>By: Culturist</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/12/29/what-is-history-part-7/comment-page-1/#comment-67025</link>
		<dc:creator>Culturist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 03:02:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=468#comment-67025</guid>
		<description>History started around campfires in tribal times.  It was a central part of that which kept the tribe thinking itself important, creating cohesion and passing on values. History serves an essential function within society.

Academic history has forgotten what the historic function of history has been up to now.  They have gotten into the debunking business using scientific accuracy as a tool.  Mr. Moses you are correct. Grand narratives are said to be dead and inaccurate.  We need multiple perspectives. There is merit in that, but too much of it, as Dr. Wilson suggested, is a cloak for fabricated Marxist ideology.  Rather than serve the central function that history is to serve within a culture, they use history to destroy and debunk the culture. This is enormously destructive.

The popularity of history can be seen in the existence of the history channel.  Many best selling books concer historical topics.  Many top movies depict historical events.  Histories popularity results from its tribal roots.  Academic historians who have stripped the positive messages and narrative of history do not sell.  This should tell them something; we need our myths.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>History started around campfires in tribal times.  It was a central part of that which kept the tribe thinking itself important, creating cohesion and passing on values. History serves an essential function within society.</p>
<p>Academic history has forgotten what the historic function of history has been up to now.  They have gotten into the debunking business using scientific accuracy as a tool.  Mr. Moses you are correct. Grand narratives are said to be dead and inaccurate.  We need multiple perspectives. There is merit in that, but too much of it, as Dr. Wilson suggested, is a cloak for fabricated Marxist ideology.  Rather than serve the central function that history is to serve within a culture, they use history to destroy and debunk the culture. This is enormously destructive.</p>
<p>The popularity of history can be seen in the existence of the history channel.  Many best selling books concer historical topics.  Many top movies depict historical events.  Histories popularity results from its tribal roots.  Academic historians who have stripped the positive messages and narrative of history do not sell.  This should tell them something; we need our myths.</p>
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		<title>By: Eagle</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/12/29/what-is-history-part-7/comment-page-1/#comment-66909</link>
		<dc:creator>Eagle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2008 21:16:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=468#comment-66909</guid>
		<description>To Larry at #16:

&quot;How are we then to value and learn from history, when we don’t know what is true and what is lies?&quot;

I am neither a historian nor philosopher, but I may suggest that the answer to your question may have something to do with Tradition (capital and lower case) as a means of transmitting and understanding the Truth (capital and lower case).  

For example, we &quot;helpless&quot; people may be confused when our elites and their conspiring media organs make an empassioned call to arms for something or other.  We may not understand the history behind it (recent or ancient).  But tradition and simple teachings on right and wrong applied straight-forwardly would inform us that it is wrong to assault civilians from the &quot;safe&quot; (perhaps physcially, if not morally) height of a stealth bomber.  These and other dishonorable acts (supposedly carried out on &quot;our&quot; behalf) should give us pause and give reason enough to question the &quot;history&quot; supplied to us as a reason for their implementation.  And questions can be an immensely helpful guide, even when unanswered.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Larry at #16:</p>
<p>"How are we then to value and learn from history, when we don’t know what is true and what is lies?"</p>
<p>I am neither a historian nor philosopher, but I may suggest that the answer to your question may have something to do with Tradition (capital and lower case) as a means of transmitting and understanding the Truth (capital and lower case).  </p>
<p>For example, we "helpless" people may be confused when our elites and their conspiring media organs make an empassioned call to arms for something or other.  We may not understand the history behind it (recent or ancient).  But tradition and simple teachings on right and wrong applied straight-forwardly would inform us that it is wrong to assault civilians from the "safe" (perhaps physcially, if not morally) height of a stealth bomber.  These and other dishonorable acts (supposedly carried out on "our" behalf) should give us pause and give reason enough to question the "history" supplied to us as a reason for their implementation.  And questions can be an immensely helpful guide, even when unanswered.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry H</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/12/29/what-is-history-part-7/comment-page-1/#comment-66886</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2008 20:06:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=468#comment-66886</guid>
		<description>&quot;Not all that is presented to us as history really happened; and what really happened did not actually happen the way it is presented to us; . . . Everything in history remains uncertain, the largest events as well as the smallest occurence. –Geothe&quot;



How are we then to value and learn from history, when we don&#039;t know what is true and what is lies?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"Not all that is presented to us as history really happened; and what really happened did not actually happen the way it is presented to us; . . . Everything in history remains uncertain, the largest events as well as the smallest occurence. –Geothe"</p>
<p>How are we then to value and learn from history, when we don't know what is true and what is lies?</p>
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		<title>By: robert m. peters</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/12/29/what-is-history-part-7/comment-page-1/#comment-66830</link>
		<dc:creator>robert m. peters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2008 15:15:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=468#comment-66830</guid>
		<description>Speaking of history, did anyone encounter CNN&#039;s &quot;factoids&quot; last night concerning Lincoln and his &quot;Emancipation Proclamation&quot;?  It seems that Mr. Lincoln, according to CNN, with the stroke of a pen, emancipated millions of slaves and that these emancipated slaves flocked to the Union army and thereby brought about a quick end to the war. Hurrah and Hurray!

What does this &quot;representation&quot; say about the &quot;fact, the imagination and the narrative&quot;?  Also, where is the forum, national that is, for the truth?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of history, did anyone encounter CNN's "factoids" last night concerning Lincoln and his "Emancipation Proclamation"?  It seems that Mr. Lincoln, according to CNN, with the stroke of a pen, emancipated millions of slaves and that these emancipated slaves flocked to the Union army and thereby brought about a quick end to the war. Hurrah and Hurray!</p>
<p>What does this "representation" say about the "fact, the imagination and the narrative"?  Also, where is the forum, national that is, for the truth?</p>
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