Kosovo as a Symbol of Anti-Postmodernism
A nation’s cultural space is marked by its spiritual fruits and not by the frontier posts. It is possible to maintain a cultural space devoid of territory (the Jews). It is also possible to lose that space under the auspices of an ostensibly functioning state—and nominally still a nation-state at that!—as is happening in today’s Western Europe. The Serbs are currently facing an ongoing reduction of their physical space to the point where the reliquiae reliquiarum of their demographically exhausted state will comprise only those lands on which nobody else can establish any kind of claim. They are also facing a simultaneous Western demand to accept and absorb postmodern cultural matrices in order to prove their fitness for the allegedly desirable political and economic integration into “Europe”—which is constantly used as misleading shorthand for the European Union.
The upholders of postmodernia see continued existence of a distinctly Serb cultural space, based on pre-modern assumptions and sensibility, as an unpardonable anachronism and a source of potential future contagion in those lands (Germany, Sweden, or Holland, for instance) where the grand Gleichschaltung has been completed. No defiant village that remembers old songs and myths, that remembers ancestors and celebrates old battles, is allowed to remain in the shadow of Euro-legions.
In the meantime, Europe of the old EU “core” is rapidly morphing into the cultural wasteland in which historical amnesia and esthetic relativism are promoted to the detriment of creativity: there is no French writer worth reading today, no Dutch painter worth sponsoring, no German composer worth hearing. If the process is so far advanced in those countries that used to define “the West” or “Europe,” the promoters of the Frankfurtian Long March rightly hope that Serbia, too, will relent and replace her obsolete and oh-so-dangerous mythical consciousness with a new, global one. They claim that only by discarding the burden of their mythologized history, and the illusion that they are in any way special—except, perhaps, in the magnitude of their crimes— can the Serbs become “normal” and cease to be a danger to their neighbors and to themselves. Only de-Serbianized can they embark on the road to “Euro-Atlantic integrations” and “start living like all other normal people.”
Blissfully unaware of the cultural tectonic shift that has taken place in “the West,” many Serbian political leaders, analysts and institutions in their contacts with the Western elite class keep invoking four sets of arguments in support of their position that Kosovo ought to remain part of Serbia:
1. Historical: Kosovo was the heartland of the Serbian medieval state;
2. Cultural: in Kosovo there are many priceless monuments of Serbian art and architecture that define Serbia’s contribution to the common European heritage;
3. Spiritual: Kosovo is “Serbia’s Jerusalem”;
4. Civilizational: Kosovo should not fall to the insurgent jihad.
The irony of the Serbian predicament is that they still imagine they are talking to the Westerners of another era, the era that had produced Nixon and Reagan, de Gaulle and Mitterand, Adenauer and Schmidt, Rebecca West and Alfred Sherman . . . and others of the generation born between, roughly, in the quarter-century before 1920, with whom such arguments could be reasonably expected to resonate.
The problem is that they are all dead, and have been replaced in the positions of political and cultural influence by the new, post-modern breed of Westerner. He is distinguished from his predecessor exactly by rejecting the value and importance of the historical, cultural, spiritual, and civilizational legacy of our common civilization.
These new ruling elites of Western Europe and North America have nurtured a number of fatal weaknesses in their own societies, including both the primary cause—which is the loss of Christian faith—and a number of secondary ones, including hostility to all forms of solidarity of the ethnically European and traditionally Christian communities based on their common ancestry and culture; the loss of a sense of place and history; rapid demographic decline, probably irreversible and unparalleled in history; rampant Third World immigration, especially from the Islamic world; imposition of “diversity,” “multiculturalism” and “sensitivity” that promotes alien cultures and lifestyles to the detriment of traditional European, Christian models; and last but by no means least, demonization and criminalization of any opposition to the above.
To the postmodern Western mindset, those who argue that they should be entitled to keep a land because they have a centuries-long historical bond to it, because their ancestors had built lovely Christian churches in it, because its heritage underpins their moral code and spirituality based on Christian martyrdom, and because they are defending themselves against an aggressive and resurgent Islam . . . anyone who makes those argument is unconsciously arguing—in the eyes of the new elite—in favor of having that territory taken away. The Serbs’ arguments—especially when presented eloquently and logically—only prove that Kosovo and Metohija must be detached from Serbia permanently as that is the only way to cure Serbia from such unhealthy, “un-European” atavisms. Whatever is said to support the historical, cultural, spiritual and civilizational right of Serbia to Kosovo is received among the Western elite class as yet further proof why Kosovo must be given to the Albanians, who, by virtue of being overwhelmingly Muslim (of the allegedly “moderate” variety) are perceived as perfectly natural allies of the Western elite class.
To explore the self-hate and the related Islamophilia of the Western elite class there is no need to dwell on the hypocrisy and outright criminality of the Western policy in Kosovo, Bosnia, Chechnya, Cyprus, and other hotspots where Islam confronts traditionally Christian communities. Let us look instead at the manifestations of the Western elite class’s pathology in their own countries, or—to be more precise—in the countries over which they rule but to which they no longer feel any natural bond of kinship and obligation.
The present technological, cultural and financial strength of Europe is a façade that conceals an underlying moral and demographic weakness. Its dynamics have the potential to eventually destroy Europe before this century is over. The symptoms of the malaise go hand-in-hand with the expansion of the European Union, a transnational hyper-state that replicates, within Europe, the elite mindset prevalent in the United States.
Europe’s demographic self-annihilation is a phenomenon of world-historical proportions. The collective death wish, epitomized by the Pill, abortion, deviant sexuality, promiscuity, and euthanasia, means that Europe’s population has aged to such a degree that it will continue to shrink even in the unlikely event that birthrates rebound to replacement level. On current form, by the end of this century there will be no “Europeans” as members of ethnic groups that share the same language, culture, history, and ancestors, and inhabit lands associated with their names. The shrinking native populations, in the meantime, are being indoctrinated into believing—or else simply cajoled into accepting—that the demographic shift is actually a blessing that enriches their societies. Europe is losing the ability to define and defend itself, to the benefit of unassimilable multitudes filled with contempt for the host-society. One consequence is that active Jihadist networks now exist in every country west of the former Iron Curtain.
The capital of the European elite class is Brussels, the headquarters of the European Union, which has decreed that member countries of the European Union no longer make the law on their immigration policies. The notion of assimilation into the host society was no longer entertained even as a theoretical objective. To understand this malaise it is essential to understand “Brussels.” It is no longer just a city and the capital of a somewhat amorphous West European state without a real national identity, held together by opportunism and corruption. Belgium is the EU in microcosm, and “Brussels” has come to denote the EU as an institution, an outlook and a way of life.
A century ago Europe’s ruling classes shared social commonalities that could be observed in Monte Carlo, Carlsbad, or Paris, depending on the season. Their lingua franca was French. Englishmen, Russians, or Austrians shared the same outlook and sense of propriety, but they nevertheless remained rooted in their national traditions. Today’s “United Europe” is light years away from that a century ago. It does not create social and civilizational commonalities, except on the basis of wholesale denial of old inherited values and “traditional” culture. It creates cultural similarity that has morphed into dreary sameness of anti-discriminationism. In Brussels, decision-makers’ attitudes may differ according to age and bureaucratic rank, but not according to their inherited cultural traits. They read the same books, watch the same movies, eat the same food, think the same thoughts, and write similar memos. They are post-nationalists who subscribe to the view that the duty of the member states is to “facilitate the achievement of the Union’s tasks and refrain from any measure which could jeopardize the attainment of the Union’s objectives.” Their Union is founded on “the values of respect for human dignity, freedom, democracy, equality, the rule of law and respect for human rights, including the rights of persons belonging to minorities.” These values “are common to the Member States in a society in which pluralism, non-discrimination, tolerance, justice, solidarity, and equality between women and men prevail.”
An ideological commitment to neoliberal globalization has turned multiculturalism and open-ended Muslim immigration into two inviolable Euro-dogmas. They are pursued independently of any electoral test. National elections do not mean much anyway in the EU, where unaccountable bureaucracies commandeer the most important decisions and policies that would not survive the test of popular opinion are simply instituted by administrative fiat. The Euro-elites trust that a deprived mass culture and mass indoctrination in state schools will neutralize any lingering sense of historical and cultural continuity. They will never admit that they played the Russian roulette and lost. The roll-call of European-born Jihadists only confirms the failure.
Both Europe’s multilateralists and Washingtonian neoconservatives share the same distaste for traditional, naturally evolving societies and cultures. Divisions between them refer not to the common goal of advancing a global revolutionary project but only to the ways and means of doing so. The end of the Cold War has cleared the way for the rise of a new global empire, and the realization that new possibilities were on offer to the revolutionaries who wanted to move beyond the Gramscian “long march.”
Even if the Serbs are robbed of Kosovo, Islam will not thank the West. There will be no synthesis, no civilizational cross-fertilization, between Europe and Islam. It’s kto-kogo. As things stand now the outcome appears almost fatally preordained. The tradition of a peasantry ruled by its “betters” has been turned on its head: in Europe most nations want to defend themselves—even the ultra-tolerant Dutch have seen the light after Theo van Gogh’s murder—but cannot do so because they are hamstrung by a ruling class composed of guilt-ridden self-haters and appeasers. Their hold on the political power, the media, and the academe is undemocratic, unnatural, obscene. If Europe is to survive they need to be unmasked for what they are: traitors to their nations and their culture. If Europe is to survive, they must be replaced by people ready and willing to subject the issues of immigration and identity to the test of democracy, unhindered by administrative or judicial fiat.
For those reasons too, Serbia must not give up Kosovo. By giving it up it would encourage the spirit that seeks the death of Europe and its surrender to the global totalitarianism of Muhammad’s successors. Not for the first time, in Kosovo the Serbs are fighting a fight that is not theirs alone.
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Dr. Trifkovic,
One question that comes to mind is: Where does the current Russian ruling class fit into all of this? Do they understand what the Serbs are trying to defend or are they only interested in frustrating the EU and the Americans?
A very good question. The tycoons and yuppies don't understand and don't care, but the political class & intellectuals do -- thanks to the cavalier Western attitude in the 90s and to the current wave of unhinged Putinophobia, rather than anything the Serbs have done or are doing now...
Mr Srdja Trifkovic,
You mentioned Historical, Spiritual, Cultural and Civilizational Mr Srdja Trifkovic, but you did not mention Actual, so let me help you:
Actual: Kosovo is slightly smaller than the size of Connecticut, and has a population larger than that of West Virginia or New Mexico. There are less Serbs in Kosovo than there are Spanish speaking people in Connecticut Mr. Srdjia Trifkovic! The Albanians in Kosovo speak their language, they have their traditions, they love their neighbors as themselves (not qute like Serbs), they have their own cuisine and make a fantastic spinach pie, and I don't want to keep going...
It looks to me like they should have some rights to govern themselves too, shouldn't they? They do have a democratically elected parliament, prime minister and an internationally respected President. Maybe they should have a little more than just "Autonomy" which Serbia is offering to Kosovo Mr. Srdjia Trifkovic! It is time that Kosovo is fully independent from your Co-nationals who showed their love in the last decade's genocides and keep showing it today by hiding the war criminals like Ratko Mladic. Do you by any chance know that Serbia's harboring of Mladic, is creating more damage to Serbia's image and credibility than anything else?
What you say is true expect for one country.
There is one country "entitled to keep a land because they have a centuries-long historical bond to it, because their ancestors had built lovely Christian churches in it, because its heritage underpins their moral code and spirituality based on Christian martyrdom, and because they are defending themselves against an aggressive and resurgent Islam."
Except the churches are temples and martyrdom is the right of return.
Culturism is defined as a philosophy which holds that majority cultures have a right to define, protect and promote themselves. Whether you want them to or not, Islam and China employ this as common sense. The only culture that needs to ask itself if it has a right to define itself or not is the Western culture.
You are absolutely right to put postmodernism and the death of historical awareness at the center. As your art criticism indicates, you cannot have any standards if you do not engage in your tradition. When you say no art worth looking at or listening to, you are implicitly refering back to Michaelangelo, Shakespeare and Beethoven. If you do not have standards, you cannot know if you are progressing or excellent. On the political realm, if you do not stand for something, you'll fall for anything.
You are also quite right to put multiculturalism at the center of the Western disease. Culturism is an antidote for multiculturalism. Multiculturalism asserts that Europe has no core culture. To believe that is necessarily to have disengaged from history. Europe is not the world. The European narrative from Greece on is distinct. You can tell it is distinct by comparing it to others. But if you do not know that, for example, the founding fathers and everyone around them shared a common European heritage, you don't even know enough history to compare yourself too. Western culturism is based on the idea that we do have a distinct Western heritage.
The Muslims are very culturist and have more culturist sensibility than we do. That needs to stop. One thing they realize is that culture is not metaphysical. Those who speak of human rights, think all countries are committed to Western values and they exist regardless of implementation. Culture exists in minds which need land for subsistence. Everytime a muslim family moves in, everytime a no-go zone is established, Western values hold sway on less of the planet. They are closer and closer to being extinct. If we too do not realize that our values are not universal, but in competition, we will surely die. We need to go from a human rights based, multiculturalist outlook to a culturist one fast.
http://www.culturism.us
KOLUBARA - 1914
In some fifty tongues the two generations’ old book says: “We know from experience that it is a thousand-time easier to reconstruct the facts of an era than its spiritual atmosphere”. ... All done, all said. An iota asked, perhaps?
The folk tune afresh:
“We don’t want to fight, But by jingo if we do, We got the men, We got the ships, We got the money too.” The tune, as it was, rings in our days at ease. Soul’s dream, else’s a nightmare, have they ever got hand in hand?
* * * * *
The Opera spiked the Brits’ line. it went on a jump in overtime: by blue this, or tint that, it misses the Drina’s single tread. The river bent, curled and crept, straight into the dreams and nightmare. How to halt it, how to hook it? Flip over by the swipe?
CVH’s the Polyglot Army: made of A, G, H, P, Cz, Cr, ... motley of a known book ... Tzar’s Corporal – Marshal of the “Y” – strayed into the Drina’s backwoods: pastures, streams, hamlets dressed in white.
Flatly beaten at Drina, they took another try. They had chosen a lesser river, Kolubara, win the battle: stride, sing, ... or die?
On the march Polyglot Army stripped the land of all alive. Reiss the Swiss had a plenty to see, tell and print. At that he stood firm in spite of voices from the side – to make up, to resign.
The work of a genius, or by the force of providence, or by the virtue of both the lot had glowed. Weaken as they were the Serbs held the ground. Hill by hill, the battle line shrank, forces fused: the swift counterattack broke the soft grass, the immense sky.
Polyglot Army chased by the wind, gloried to an eternal crown: they would come with Bismark’s Grenadiers, next time, ... next time?
/PDJGBP - 2006/(86 - CVH: Conrad von Hotzendorf)
Kosovo is Serbian. That is it. All the excuses given to take this land away have been shown to be false. Look it up, it is not hard to find the info on that. I don't have to spoon feed you on this.
I haven't been to Serbia for ten years, if being there counts as passing through by train, but I recall seeing signs in Cyrallic and Latin script, something wich was not found in Croatia. So, if the Serbs were so intolerant of all things not Serb, why would they tolerate Latin script? Further, not all Albanians live in Albania or Kosovo etc. some live in Serbia. If things are as the world press says they are, why is it we don't hear of the same persecution of Albanians in Serbia proper? BECAUSE MINORITIES IN SERBIA ARE NOT PERSECUTED YOU MORON!
REISS - 1914
A man Reiss was a Swiss. Swiss national it is - and a Serb by his heart and soul’s take. To say most of the Swiss are Reiss alike would be ... a bit much. Yet, in life and in deeds he tests all at fault.
Reiss came to Serbia in the thick of war: he replied the king’s call. He sees the Polyglot Army’ feat - evil as it was: made the due report to the world, and to the king.
Small country burns. Her folk is on the rope. Fabled force, supreme culture, ... this and that, they fix the bloody toll. A loner in the field observes a great malaise, and a sharp rupture.
At a foot of the hill a meadow sits; tiny spring of water, a pristine church; the duke’s dormitory under the galactic tree, in stark tranquillity. A sole man’s grave sets a mark. Swiss, German, and the Serb: Reiss, rest in peace at that place since nineteen-twenty-nine.
PDJGBP - 2006 /... 93 /
Mr. Trifkovic,
One may not necessarily share your thoughts, but they’ll likely admit to themselves that you’re an extraordinary writer. It is hard to find in Western superficial ‘columnism’ a text that parallels yours in depth and focus. I do agree with the core of your views. I also regret that today’s Serbia has yet to give birth to a politician that could shrewdly weigh in the level of Serbian submissiveness to the “international community” demands and balance the adoption of good European traits with a preservation of unique national values.
The reasons why the Serbs cannot make a deal with the West are many and your explanation Dr. Trifkovic is as good as any. One thing about the Western elites, when contrasted with the Serbian elites is that the Western elites for the most part have a history and are not criminalized in the traditional sense of the word, while the Serb elites have been so for at least half a century. The Western elites are produced in their own societies through peaceful means and through a selective process that is not a product of some vast criminal behaviour such as it has been the case in Serbia. In Serbia they had the "New Class" take power in 1945 through dishonest and criminal means. Then the "New Class" had been able to enjoy itself for almost 50 years after which they produced Milosevic who topped and surpassed all criminalities of the "New Class" with his own rapacious and naked criminal enterprise . After the 2000, with Milosevic gone, the war profiteers, created by that state, were able to keep their criminal profits and strenghten their grip on the country, thus producing yet another criminal elite, although the Serbs were promised otherwise. Now I am not saying that in Serbia there are no good men, and Dr. Kostunica may well be such a person, but he does not seem to be the one that is calling all the shots. The criminalized elite is the power behind the scenes and behind their ideology of real or fake nationalism their money feels safe. They are in control, and that is why there is so little effort to confront the injustices of the past and as that would hurt their position. That is why anyone that brings this up is eventually branded as a traitor by them. Now some of them may very well be traitors, working for America or the West but the critics' point is still valid; Why should an average Serb still care or trust this current new elite, about Kosovo or anything else, remembering that his private house or land was confiscated by the Tito regime in 1945, that during Milosevic he got bankrupted by the pernicious and deliberate superinflation, when his $2000 pension or salary check became worth $5 within the span of a year when he was forced to in fact starve. And now after the year 2000, his position has not changed that much, other than that it is now safer to walk the streets again. His ancestral land or house confiscated by Tito in 1945 is still not getting returned by Kostunica and his children will still be forced to emigrate or else live off of charity, while the war profiteers who are now legal businessman billionaires enjoy their monopolies. One of them, a few years ago, in a burst of philantropism, named his own private university after himself. I don't think it would ever cross Bill Gates's mind to do such a thing. But this is in essence the difference between the Western elites and the Serbian elites. Serb elites have no sense of propriety or understand the need for transaprency fairness and competition. In fact, I do not think that the West hates the Serbs at all. It is more the case of Western elites hating the Serb elites to the point where they really want to distroy them, because to the Western mind such elites should not be allowed to exist. They just have not figured out how to destroy them yet. And therein lies the biggest paradox as well. If the Serbs loose Kosovo then the Serb elite wins against the Western elites as they will be in a position to consolidate their power and silence the very few critics! But the Western elites will not allow themselves to loose and they will get even more determined that the Serb elites have got to go. There will be more trouble in the Balkans and unfortunately it may all very well end with the NATO occupation of Serbia at some future date.
Srdja, you wrote an excellent article. The postmodernism era does not care about history. Way should care? Lets start everything from beginning, lol.
It looks like that even traditional Jews are not immune on post-modern approach. The Kosovo crisis opens another serious question. This is first time after WW II that Jews supported ethnic cleansing of the Serbs from Kosovo by being overwhelmingly in favour of Serbia bombardment. I can’t believe that holocaust denial comes from the descendants of the holocaust victims. This is crazy world, lol.
Through the prayers of St. Nikolai Velimirovic, God save Serbia!
This erudite and eloquent commentary on the symbolic significance of the Serbian predicament, should be required reading for anyone who doubts the extraordinary influence of the "postmodern turn" in the educated elites of the Western world.
Srdja Trifkovic's insight is particularly sharp when he refers to the Serbian arguments (for remaining in Kosovo) as being "unEuropean atavisms". The Serbs undesirable attachment to their culture, history, and religion shows, in our topsy-turvey postmodern world, that they fully deserve their pariah status within the European "community of diversity".
Since we're talking about Brussels we should mention the political crisis in Belgium within the context of Dr. Trifkovic's very insightful article about Kosovo. A split between Flanders and Wallonia would put Brussels inside Flanders and yet no one thinks of Brussels as a Flemish city. Indeed the break-up of Belgium would have the affect of isolating Brussels inside hostile territory. Flanders potential secession from Belgium, unlike Kosovo potential secession from Serbia, are two different circumstances and shows why all secessions are not equal. Flanders is trying to assert its local idenity, something that Dr. Trifkovic has said that Brussels and the EU has been trying to supress. Kosovo has an identity and it is Serbian. Unfortunately Brussels is trying to destroy that identity to feed the crocodile known as Jihadism and make its peace with it even thought the crocodile will always remain hungry. The destruction of Belgium and preventing of any kind of fig-leaf of legitimacy of Kosovo's secession with Serbian and Russian aquiecense would be first of series of blows of what fellow Serb Nebojsa Malic calls "the empire" the Euro and American globalist elites that could lead to future blows. If adderting identity becomes popular and hurts the EU, then others may assert themselves as well.
Kudos, Dr. Trifkovic; I intend to quote this piece a lot.
It is ironic that the problems which are invoked in Serbia as reasons for "Euro-Atlantic integrations" are precisely things imported from the West.
I do have a minor quibble, though. Please don't call them "elites." We don't call an exceptionally talented murderer, pillager or rapist an "elite" murderer, pillager, or rapist. Why should we do so with politicians - especially if they are such moral pygmies.
Dr. Trifkovic,
First, could you enlighten me as to the advent of an Albanian majority in Kosovo. I am personally not enamoured with numerical majorities, but I would like to know have such a current majority of Albanians came to be in Kosovo.
Secondly, you might correct any error in my thoughts that the Albanian majority came primarily as a result of the works of that pathfinder to post-modernism, namely Marxism in whatever guises it plagued the Balkans and/or at the hands of that other culture-leveling force, Islam.
I would harken back to the Westphalian Order and ask within the framework of that Order what legal right would the power(s) of Europe have to dismember Serbia since that Order i establishes and is based on the understanding that states are sovereign and equal regardless of size and population and that their borders are inviolable and cannot be changed save in the context of a treaty of which that state is the party. Of course, the Westphalian Order has been stretched to its limits even by its proponet but has been most fatally broken by the ideological movements spawned by the French Revolution and left-wing Hegelianism, namely Marxism in all of its forms, fascism and social democracy, with social democracy being the current engine of post-moderism and its cultural banality.
Your response would be appreciated.
Totalitarian press (which even brainwashes successfully the elites) = bogus diversity (a dismantling of western europe)
An actually diverse press/media with many different perspectives constantly illuminated = actual indigenous diversity in europe
same equation applies to america.
we're all conceptual creatures and so it's very simple - unless the media is diverse then we're doomed.
In the meantime once the media itself is used as a totalitarian weapon he who has the media wins. Because we're all coneptual creatures a totalitarian media inevitably sets the agenda. It even brainwashes the elites, who especially don't want to admit it.
It all starts with an outlawing of any kind of monopoly on a nation's airwaves. If that's not possible any longer due to the totalitarians - then they must be taken back, no choice, if that's possible.
anyway when a press has become totalitarian in the name of 'freedom' then to the same degree the nation is dismantled in the name of 'diversity'.
conversely when a press is in Fact diverse and thus Acutally enjoying a freedom of the press, then so too is the nation rich in its own native diversity.
we're all conceptual creatures and thus if through travesty the press has become monolithic it simply boils down to he who has the press, wins.
i notice most people balk at accepting this because they tend to 'fancy' themselves as above or beyond their own reality as a conceptual creature 'as if' some other kind of false or free agent.
paradoxically that's when they lose what freedom/s they 'did' have.
once the press/media has gone totalitarian (monolithic), he who has the media, wins. some things Are simple. this is one of them.
________________
"svaka cast" for bringing so many good thoughts on such a difficult theme, and still keeping an optimistic attitude.
I'm concerned about that western attitude - to judge on people who want to preserve old traditions (your words: as an unpardonable anachronism) and the need to be tolerant with all that modern strange things from post-modern world and to accept it (your words: the loss of a sense of place and history)
Forever: Kosovo je Srbija!
The time for talk is over, the time to continue taking abuse from the US and EU is over, it is time to stand up once again to both, Serbia has done it before, standing up to tyranny is nothing knew for Serbs, dying for Serbia is something Serbs do and know very well. Choose the moment and place for the new battle of Kosovo, perhaps God will side with Serbs this time, Serbs have paid for this win dearly. I think it is time for Serbians to become insurgents in their own land and take back what is rightfully Serbian. Under no circumstance should Serbia join EU or NATO, in fact Serbia should sue US, EU and NATO for war reparations. In defiance Serbia should embrace Russia and allow Russia to install interceptor missiles in Serbia to counter installations in Czech Republic and Poland. Serbia should do everything in its power to counter EU and NATO, stop all diplomatic relations with US, and especially Germany and the rest of the countries that are for unilateral independent Kosovo, support/fuel all secessionist movements across the Western Europe, let the EU and reap the fruit of its anemic foreign and wayward policy. Albanians already have a country it is called Albania; let the US, EU and the rest world that allegedly cares so much for Albanians rebuild Albania and give them democracy, if that was the initial intent for getting involved in Kosovo. Somehow I find it that NATO, EU and US only want Kosovo do to its location, knowing fully well Serbia would not let US build basis in Kosovo, definitely not because of Albanians or Albanian plight.
The moment Europeans and others start dying in Kosovo the conflict would be over, can’t fight for something that is not yours. Make Western Europe pay for their involvement in Kosovo. The fearless German army ran from Serbians in two World Wars, this conflict won’t be any different, well accept that the Albanians will leading Germans all the way to Albania. As for Americans they are overextended and pretty busy with Afghanistan, Iraq and perhaps in Iran, a perfect opportunity for Serbia to rid itself from Imperialistic impositions, not only in Kosovo but in Bosnia as well. I know one thing, when Serbs are cornered with no where to go they will stand up and fight, they will once again stand up to tyrannical forces, regardless that they may lose.
To Mr. Peters No. 16: This is a thorny issue, and I'll try to give a value-neutral response. Until the aftermath of Prince Eugene of Savoy's ill-fated Drang nach Constantinople the Serbs were overwhelmingly in the majority. When Louis XIV stabbed Austria in the back on the Rhine Eugene had to withdraw and some 140,000 Serbs fearful for their lives left Kosovo in 1699 under their Patriarch and settled, mainly, in today's Vojvodina.
Until as late as the Greek-Turkish War of 1897 today's province of Kosovo had a simple Serb majority. Turkish and German/Austrian sources estimate that some 400.000 Serbs were expelled from the Vilayet of Kosovo between 1876 and 1901, and especially in the aftermath of the War of 1897. According to Kippert, J. Hahn and Austrian Consul K. Sachs, in 1899 there were 182.650 Albanians (47,88 %), 166.700 Serbs (43,70 %) and cca 9% Turks, Roma etc.
In 1921 of 439.010 inhabitants, 280.440 (64,1 %) were Albanian, which was the first time they achieved a simple majority.
During World War II about 100,000 Serbs were forced out, and banned from returning by Tito(!)
In 1971: a total of 1.243,693 people. 916,168 Albanians (73,7%) 228.264 Serbs (18,4 %); 31.555 Montenegrins (2,5 %); 26.000 Serbian-speaking Muslims (2,1 %); 14.593 Roma (1,2 %); 12.244 Turks (1%); 8.000 Croats (0,7%); etc.
By 1981 of 1.584,558 people 1.226,736 were Albanian (77,42%) 209.498 Serbs (13,2%) 27.028 Montenegrins (1,7%) etc.
At the moment it is estimated that there are cca 1.75 million Albanians (88%), 7% Serbs (140.000); and 5% others.
I would fight with Serbia actually go there and fight, if possible, based on what Pappy points out. I'm not afraid to die for something I believe in, then maybe Serbian ground would become a home. The rest of it is crap. I would no sooner go attack the people of Iraq for george bush, than i would go attack him. So i would do NEITHER.
Dr. Trifkovic,
Thank you.
When you blow the fire at least make sure it is weak enough to have some strength and carry those missiles in your own pocket Pappy. I have not seen a single sign of weakness by this administration and I think you will only burn yourself. Wait a second what happens when you cannot use those missiles you keep in your pocket they might go off, you are still to close to this fire that is burning way to far from your blow. Well, I met with a Russian once and he was wearing a shirt with an emblem, which he was so proud about. He said that it signified power (and the emblem was the eagle with two heads, and the Russian an old man, we laughed together afterwards). Do you understand now Pappy? I believe you will be able to end this non-sense de-Albanian episode before someone else gives you a different name from which even I will be ashamed of you wearing it. Instead, I will encourage you to open your books and find out how did Europe convert to Christianity from its Pagan state. Maybe than, you will have a little more respect for the people you speak so imprudently against to. As for Kosovo being the heartland of the Serbian medieval state that might be true because Austria pushed Serbs toward south Balkans. Albanians have fed your people when they were hungry and this is how you reward them for the dignity of their hospitality (this is our #1 tradition dear author). You dear author speak of art and present day France, Germany, Holland, is this best your art teacher showed you. Well the art comes from people who appreciate it and do not abuse it by feeding it to the fire.
Wilsonian self determination has gone too far when it leads to states that have no real ability to protect themselves. When the West leaves, Serbia will overrun Kosovo, again.
Dr. Trifkovic,
I have been waiting for eight years for this article to be written. Some have come close but nothing like this. This article is truly a masterpiece.
I personally have contemplated exactly what you have written here as I know many others have as well. But it truly takes something special(that you possess) to compose such an article for public discourse.
For the few years I lived in the Netherlands, at the turn of the millenium, much of the population there could see the turbulent future that lie ahead for them because of their imigration policies. Yet, these same people would continue to support and follow these policies. It is still quite amusing to continue to watch these lemings in Europe heading straight for the cliff.
The peasant mentality is still strong with in the Serbian culture( that is to resist what does not seem right). We in Serbia(not all but enough) have refused to follow these lemings on their journey. Those who play the pipes have been able to punish us for this action. This has played out before with in the past century and again it will be the same. Let us only hope that the resisters can keep the lemings from all falling from the cliff. For those still unaware, that is the roll of the Serbian nation today. Most of us on this forum understand this and you can just look at the responses from the article above.
I am happy to be in your company. Thank you.
I had the pleasure of listening Dr. Trifković give this lecture at Mašinski fakultet in Belgrade a week ago. It's great to have it here as well.
Fjordman: Why We Should Oppose an Independent Kosovo
The Euroessayist Fjordman explains why an independent Kosovo will help no one except the global jihadists. Hans Rustad runs Document.no, the largest independent weblog in my country. A recent post there contained criticism of me, and I have already answered some of it. However, Mr. Rustad also claimed that I support a revisionist view of the Balkan wars of the 1990s which is "just as factually wrong, immoral and politically dangerous as David Irving's Holocaust revisionism." I consider that statement to be too awful to ignore, and decided to write a reply in English.
I have said repeatedly that I believe the Balkan wars were far more complex than we are led to believe by the political establishment, and I fear that we out of ideological blindness have come to support some pretty dangerous Muslim forces. I respect Mr. Rustad for exposing the bias against Israelis in the mainstream media, and I am sad to see that he accepts uncritically a similar bias against the Serbs. My point is that you cannot understand recent history in the Balkans without taking the previous seven centuries of Islamic oppression into account.
...
Author William Dorich states that "The Serbs lost 52% of their adult male population fighting in the First World War as American allies. Twenty-four years later the Serbs were the only people in the Balkans to declare war on Nazi Germany. Hitler bombed the 'open city' of Belgrade on Palm Sunday in 1942, killing 17,000 Serbs in one day. Surrender followed ten days later as the Nazis invaded. The Serbs lost another one-third of their population in the Holocaust again fighting as American allies, especially against their own Croat, Bosnian Muslim and Albanian Nazis."
Serge Trifkovic, author of the books The Sword of the Prophet and Defeating Jihad, documents how Yasser Arafat's uncle Mohammad Amin al-Husayni cooperated closely with Nazi Germany in recruiting Bosnian and Albanian Muslims for Waffen SS units. Serbs had to wear blue armbands, Jews yellow armbands. For Muslims, this was a Jihad against disobedient dhimmis, and thus a continuation of the genocide against Armenians a few years earlier, which was one of the inspirations for the Holocaust. More than a quarter of a million Serbs, Jews and Romani people (Gypsies) were killed by Muslim troops in Nazi service.
Trifkovic cites James Jatras as claiming that Washington's irrational Balkan policy is to a significant extent the product of the ignorant and misguided notion that the U.S. can curry favor in the Islamic world by sacrificing Kosovo's Christians to the violent Jihad-terror elements that dominate Kosovo's Albanian leadership: "Such an unfounded notion shows a breathtaking incomprehension of the worldwide jihadist threat. International opposition and the Bush Administration's failing domestic credibility put a weight on the policy, however, which can be dealt a fatal blow if enough Americans raise their voices against it."
Miroljub Jevtic, professor at the Belgrade University and author of a number of books on the topic of Islam and politics, believes the Western world is in favor of detaching Kosovo from Christian Serbia by fiat and making it into an independent (Muslim) state. The main argument of those supporting this scenario, notably in the United States, is to improve their image in the eyes of the Islamic world and "co-opt the influence of Islamic 'extremists.'"
However, Jevtic notes that "the fact that since the arrival of NATO to Kosovo over 150 Christian churches have been destroyed and some 400 mosques have been built, or are under construction, is for the Muslims a proof that if there is a faith which is supported by true God -- it is Islam! Because, why would the Christian God, why would Jesus, permit the destruction of churches, where He, Jesus, is glorified? Why would He, at the same time, permit the construction of mosques, where His existence as God is denied? Why would He permit it, moreover, in the presence of men who bear arms and who claim to be Christians?"
Miroljub Jevtic warns that the European Union support for Albanian Muslim demands could backfire badly: "Granting the independence to Kosovo will be taken as proof of Europe's own wish to cease to exist, as it not only allows the expansion of Islam but is actively promoting it by aiding those who are destroying churches, raping nuns, spitting on crosses and daubing with excrement holy images of Christ."
...
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/019030.php
-----
"Twenty-four years later the Serbs were the only people in the Balkans to declare war on Nazi Germany. Hitler bombed the 'open city' of Belgrade on Palm Sunday in 1942, killing 17,000 Serbs in one day."
The above fact is one reason that Germany is so adamant about dismembering first Yugoslavia (SFRJ, FRY) and now Serbia, destroy Germany’s negative image from the past at all cost, the true history of their Nazi past and their crimes against humanity, divert collective guilt on Serbia the new Nazi’s of Europe as was proclaimed by Western so-called Free-Press, revise history to portray Germany, and the collaborating countries in a positive light.
Question here to ask is how many other countries in Europe lost 17,000 thousand innocent citizens in one day in any war? None, they didn’t they were all collaborators of Nazi Germany, almost identical to today’s Europe, most European countries are followers of Germanys, UK and US policies.
Serbia's tragedy is that it is not a member of the EU. On the one hand, it is exposed to US bullying but without the rampart of protection which the EU provides. Contrast with, say, Estonia. Nobody dares to say boo to Estonia becaues to do so would lead to a confrontation with the EU.
Equally, it is well known that about a third of the EU Member States openly support Serbia and there are no doubt others who simply don't want to get into a fight. When push comes to shove, the Member States will rally to each other. Remember the Falklands War? Few saw the point of fighting for those islands, but it was Britain's decision and the other Member States rallied around. If Serbia was one of there own, the EU would rally to Serbia.
From Serbia's point of view, a settlement that brought Serbia into the EU with its present borders intact would be perfect. Once inside, those borders would be inviolable without Serbia's consent. (Example: Cyprus!) For that very reason, no doubt, the Kosovo Albanians want independence first and EU membership later. In other words, Serbia's interest is to prolong the status quo!
Serbia’s tragedy is that the Serbia King didn’t listen to Serbia intellectuals of that era, at the end of WWI, and should have never allowed Croatia and Slovenia to join the Kingdom of Serbs Slovene and Croats or what later would be know as Yugoslavia. Serbia would have had more territory then today most of Adriatic coast or Dalmacia and all ethnic Serbs would be living in a single very powerful state.
Part of Croatia and all of Slovenia would have been part of Austria or Italy, Major part of today’s Croatia would have been part of Serbia, Bosnia and Macedonia would have been also part of Serbia, Albania would not exist as we know it today, since its territory was offered to Greece and Serbia as a reward for fighting with the allies (both Greece and Serbia refused to take any part of that territory, now they are seeing a blow back from that indecision).
The other tragedy is that Serbs who were majority if Yugoslavia failed to remove Tito from power, when it was obvious that Tito was anti-Serbian and protect Serbia from Tito’s destructive policy of weak Serbia is good for a strong Yugoslavia. It also failed close ranks among Serbian political leadership, prepare for Tito’s eventual death, organize the military and arm properly prior to the collapse of the USSR. All other ethnic groups including ethnic Albanians had a plan for secession from Yugoslavia after Tito’s death, most of these plans were know to Serbs in 1976, but the leadership at the time failed to do something about those plans, if not publicly then secretly. Thus the Serbian saga continues…
An interesting article from a muslim perspective on the Sudanese 'Teddy Bear' saga:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/sudanese-teddy-saga-lays-bare-islamic-inferiority-complex/2007/12/05/1196812821147.html
Problem w Serbian politic is that they did accepted the game to blame Albanians.
Albanians are just the best tool that West/Freemasons are using to continue to control Balkan acct Serbian land on Balkan.
Serbia was never free,neither any of those convert Serbian/new "countrys"/ on the land of ex-yu.
Former president Tito was a freemason who got a Job to be a President in faked'happy'yugoslavia and in reverse/he would live like a King,and he did/ he had to:
cut in the smallest possible pieces Serbian land,discover 'new nations',bring over the Albanian border as many as possible Albaninas,be a God Father to evry Albanian familly as long as they had minimum 10 childer and UP!,let them live on yugo/Serbian social security,move Serbian ppl away from Kosovo,...In former Yu evrybody could be anything But NOOOO Serbian!
Titos photo was in evry public place and we had to:adore him,sing songs to him about him,call him imortal,...we were brain washed!
Evry Serbian intelectual was sent to prison,kept dead-alive in house,killed by accident,...
Before he died he made sure that there was Not a Single 'Smart'person,like he was,in the country of 22 million population.
SEVEN ppl had to replace him!!!
He has gone and left on a tray for other Freemasons to continue sadistic experiments, on human population just like they do on evry continent,for many centurys.
It is always the same scenario but different actors..just like in evry cowboy film:
-the photo of The Most Wanted to be captured
-and great,money,reward !?
They care about Albanian ppl as much as they do about last year snow!
It is just another perfect crime!
Wars are The Best Business!
God has the last word!
Mr Robert M. Peters you wrote:
"I would harken back to the Westphalian Order"
How could you? The Serbs killed it. June 28th 1914. Remember?
Ujedinjenje ili Smrt
Serbian Nationalism started World War I, in case most of you forgot. Which of course gave rise to the present day New World Order. The Serbs have yet to be punished for the horrible crime committed on June 28th 1914. So if some you mis-guided souls want to revive Serbian Nationalism start here with a few of these articles from the Serbian Nationalist Black Hand.
The Constitution of the Ujedinjenje ili Smrt -
Unification or Death
I. Purpose and Name
Article 1. For the purpose of realising the national ideals - the
Unification of Serbdom - an organization is hereby created, whose
members may be any Serbian irrespective of sex, religion, place or
birth, as well as anybody else who will sincerely serve this idea.
Article 2. The organisation gives priority to the revolutionary struggle
rather than relies on cultural striving, therefore its institution is an
absolutely secret one for wider circles.
Article 3. The organization bears the name: "Ujedinjenje ili Smrt".
Article 4. In order to carry into effect its task the organization will
do the following things:
(1) Following the character of its raison d etre it will exercise its
influence over all the official factors in Serbia - which is the Piemont
of Serbdom - as also over all the strata of the State and over the
entire social life in it:
(2) It will carry out a revolutionary organisation in all the
territories where Serbians are living:
(3) Beyond the frontiers, it will fight with all means against all
enemies of this idea:
(4) It will maintain friendly relations with all the States, nations,
organisations, and individual persons who sympathise with Serbia
and the Serbian race:
(5) It will give every assistance to those nations and organisations
who are fighting for their own national liberation and unification.
Truly pathetic that most fall for such an evil as Serbian Nationalism
michael warning,
I think you are confused with this ethnic group and this organization…
The Ustaše (also known as Ustashas or Ustashi) was a Croatian nationalist far-right movement. It engaged in terrorist activity before World War II and ruled, under Nazi protection, in a part of Yugoslavia after that country was occupied by the Axis powers. After German forces withdrew from Yugoslavia in 1945, the Ustaše was defeated and expelled by the communist Yugoslav partisans.
When it was founded in 1929, the Ustaše was a nationalist organization that sought to create an independent Croatian state. When the Ustaše came to power during World War II, its military became the Ustaše Army (Ustaška Vojnica). They claimed that this army had 76,000 troops at its peak in 1944.[citation needed] In the 1990s, during the Yugoslav wars, there was a resurgence of support for the Ustaše. Croatian law currently forbids Ustaše symbols and associated references. As a rule, the enthusiasts of Neo-Nazism in Croatia refer to the Ustaše as their role models.
The Ustaše aimed at an ethnically "pure" Croatia, and saw the Serbs that lived in Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina as the their biggest obstacle. Thus, Ustaše ministers Mile Budak, Mirko Puk, and Milovan Žanić declared in May 1941 that the goal of the new Ustaše policy was an enhnically clean Croatia. They also publicly announced the strategy to achieve their goal:
1. One third of the Serbs (in the Independent State of Croatia) were to be forcibly converted to Catholicism.
2. One third of the Serbs were to be expelled (ethnically cleansed).
3. One third of the Serbs were to be killed.
The Ustaše persecuted the Serbs who were mostly Orthodox Christians yet they rationalized that the Bosnian Muslims were actually Muslim Croats merely because those Croats were Muslim and so did not persecute them. Some of these Muslim Bosnians joined in the Nazi and Ustaše forces as part of Waffen-SS divisions 13th SS Mountain Division Handschar in Bosnia (led by Amin al-Husayni) and 23rd SS Grenadier Division Kama advised by Edmund Glaise von Horstenau (the representative of the German military in Croatia) and led by Colonel Ivan Markulj, who was later replaced by Colonel Viktor Pavicic. Lt-Col. Marko Mesic commanded the artillery section. The state even converted a former museum in Zagreb for use as a mosque. The Ustaše were against industrialization and democracy. The basic principles of the movement were laid out by Pavelić in his 1929 pamphlet "Principles of the Ustaše Movement".
A problem with the Nazi ideology was that the Croats are Slavs and were considered inferior by Nazi standards. Ustaša ideologues thus created a theory about a pseudo-Gothic origin of the Croats in order to raise their standing on the Aryan ladder.[citation needed]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usta%C5%A1e
RE: an excerpt:
“The irony of the Serbian predicament is that they still imagine they are talking to the Westerners of another era, the era that had produced Nixon and Reagan, de Gaulle and Mitterand, Adenauer and Schmidt, Rebecca West and Alfred Sherman . . . and others of the generation born between, roughly, in the quarter-century before 1920, with whom such arguments could be reasonably expected to resonate. The problem is that they are all dead, and have been replaced in the positions of political and cultural influence by the new, post-modern breed of Westerner. He is distinguished from his predecessor exactly by rejecting the value and importance of the historical, cultural, spiritual, and civilizational legacy of our common civilization.”
I would think the imagination of the Serbian people should have been thoroughly shaken on Pascha, March 29, 1999. Photos later circulated in newspapers everywhere of smiling American bomber crewmen loading their bays with “Happy Easter” scrawled across the bombs they were preparing to deliver to Kosovo in the first morning light. These poor American flyboys, under Clinton's order, of course had no sense of history or memory of the Serbian people saving more than 600 American fliers during WWII. To this day, the “Halyard Operation” remains the largest one-time rescue of Americans from behind enemy lines in American history.
Pappy:
No, Serbs. The black hand was secret society of nationalistic Serbian officers who assassinated the Archduke Franz on June 28th 1914.
From British Documents on the Origins of the War, 1898-1914
“With reference to my telegram of yesterday (Assassination of Archduke Franz).(l) I was told subsequently at Government House that there are probably several accomplices. Local paper speaks of Anarchist crime, but act was more likely that of Servian irredentists, preconcerted long ago.”
(29078) No. 13.
Consul Jones to Sir Edward Grey.
Serajevo, June 29, 1914.
D. 8:30 A.M.
R. 11 A.M.
Tel. Urgent.
“From what has hitherto come to light regarding this atrocious crime it is conjectured that the murdered pair were probably the victims of a carefully prepared plot. The Archduke, it is true, is known to have been a sympathiser with the aspirations of the subject nationalities of the Emperor, in so far as these can be regarded as reasonable and capable of realisation without peril to the unity of the Dual Monarchy. He had been given therefore, according to all accounts, an enthusiastic reception at every stage of his journey through Dalmatia, Herzegovina and Bosnia. Even the opposition Press had accorded him a welcome, with the exception of the "Narod," a Servian irredentist organ, which made no allusion to the Archduke's visit, but published instead, on a sheet bearing the Servian colours, a glowing article in commemoration of the battle of Kossovo, which marked the downfall of the Servian Empire before the Turkish onslaught in the 14th century. A telegram from Agram appears this morning in the official "Fremdenblatt," to the effect that since the intention of the Heir Apparent to attend the Bosnian manoeuvres became known a violent Pan-Servian agitation has been raging in the Serbo-Croatian capital. The Archduke is said tohave been warned in vain against undertaking his projected journey,and to have himself endeavoured to dissuade the Duchess from meeting him in Bosnia. Her Highness was however determined to share the danger with her husband. The Agram telegram proceeds to state that since 1908 (the year of the annexation) the revolutionary Servian organisation has displayed an ever increasing activity; that Cabrilovitch and Prinzip, the first of whom threw the bomb and the second fired the pistol, are said to be members of the terrorist Great Servian organisation; and that in Agram no one doubts that a carefully prepared plot had been set on foot against the Archduke.”
(29794) No. 21.
Sir M. de Bunsen to Sir Edward Grey. (Received July 2.)
(No. 129.)
Vienna, June 29, 1914.
Do the Serbs hate the memory of the Austrian Hungarian Empire? How do the Serbs remember June 28th 1914? With shame? Or do the Serbs celebrate this day June 28th as a day of Independence and liberation from the Austrian Hungarian Empire?
I have no sympathy for a people who started World War I with such a horrible act. The old Westphalian Order was been completely destroyed with this act. Now Serbia suffers for it, so does the rest of the world. You can thank the Serbs for putting into motion the New World Order.
>I have no sympathy for a people who started World War I with
>such a horrible act. The old Westphalian Order was been
>completely destroyed with this act. Now Serbia suffers for it, so
>does the rest of the world. You can thank the Serbs for putting into
>motion the New World Order.
You are a complete **idiot**.
If an Iraqi assassinated an important American official in Iraq and US retaliation eventually resulted in WWIII, would the Iraqi be deemed to be responsible for the conflagration???
Get your head checked!
Mr Chris you wrote:
“If an Iraqi assassinated an important American official in Iraq and US retaliation eventually resulted in WWIII, would the Iraqi be deemed to be responsible for the conflagration???”
Would he be a Serbian trained assassin?
To Michael Warning:
I believe that Dr. Trifkovic himself has written about the tragedy that was WWI. He, as well as others, have characterized it as the single worst moment in modern human history.
As to your claim about Serbian nationalism and its responsibility for bringing down the entirety of the Westphalian order, here are a few points to be made by way of questions:
1. Do you realize why it is that Serbs celebrate on June 28? Do you think they honor an assassination or assassins? Do you realize that it is the feast day of St. Vitus - the day on which the Serbian leader Lazar was martyred as he defended the Serbs (and Europe) from the invading hordes of Islamic Turks? That it had been and continues to be the most honored specifically Serbian holiday long before the heir to the Hapsburg throne evered showed up in the Balkans?
2. Do you believe that it was wise of the Austrian officials, knowing full well the history outlined in point #1, to flaunt their power by sending the archduke to the region when so many different aspirations regarding sovereignty were brewing? Or would there have been a more civil and more subtle manner by which to signal political goals and realities to one's neighbors and one's subjects?
3. Do you realize that, contrary to a minority of "nationalists" then and now, that Prinzip and groups associated with the assassination were/are regarded as criminals? That they were/are little honored? That no connection was made to the Serbian throne? That Prinzip's co-conspirators were sentenced to death by Serbian authorities, while Prinzip himself, under the legal age allowed for the death penalty, was condemned to a rather unpleasant prison stay that ended in death by tuberculosis?
4. Did you realize that sympathetic to Prinzip and the Black Hand were other slavic nationalities who were ruled by the Hapsburgs but had their own aspirations for increased autonomy or independence? That, in fact, the band of killers actually represented the modern ideal of "nation building"? Yugoslavism? To take your argument one step further, they not only unleashed the New World Order; they represented it. Quote Prinzip:
"I am a Yugoslav nationalist, aiming for the unification of all Yugoslavs, and I do not care what form of state, but it must be free from Austria."
Now, do you believe true Serbian patriots then or today were "Yugoslav nationalists"? Do you believe that the Serbian king would endorse regicide?
5. Setting aside points 1 through 4, do you believe that the act of a handful of bandits could precipitate an insane, continent-wide war of cultural and physical self-annihilation or were other forces at work? If Serbian sovereignty was the central issue at hand, did Serbs have some clout back then that they seem to lack today that would bring the might of the United Kingdom and the United States onto "their side" in the fighting or were other issues driving the war all the while using the Serbian issue as a pretext? If you believe that Serbian nationalism was the driving force that launched all of Europe into war in 1914, then perhaps you will also believe Lincoln fought to free the slaves and Bonaparte was trully a benevolent European liberator.
Serbs have made their share of mistakes. No peoples and no man that has ever walked the earth has been immune from sin, but to lay the blame for destroying the Westphalian order and, by extension, "throne and altar" European culture, at the feet of the Serbs is more than a stretch. In fact, it wreaks of poorly designed propoganda attempting to influence the more literate elements of American society that may at least remember reading about Westphalia in history class. But, take note, Chronicles readers are astute enough to see right through this contortion of logic.
Franz Ferdinand's folly on 28 June 1914 was the exact equivalent of Bertie the Prince of Wales parading in full regalia through Dublin on St. Patrick's Day in 1899...
Black Hand and Mlada Bosna were both Slavic Movements, not greater serbian movements. Gavrilo Princip intended on forming Yugoslavia, not Greater Serbia. Everyone knows that today, except you michael.
Mr. Eagle you wrote: "But, take note, Chronicles readers are astute enough to see right through this contortion of logic."
Astute enough to realize that the Westphalian order was created by the Holy Roman Emperor and that without the leadership of the Holy Roman Emperor the Westphalian order is non-existent?
The Black Hand was anti-imperialistic secret society made up of Serbs set upon destroying the continuance of the Office of The Holy Roman Emperor. It succeeded in its goal. The world is now run by USA, EU, UN, Russia, China and so on. No more Holy Roman Emperor to rule and govern. No more Westphalian order. If Chronicles readers are astute as you say they are, then maybe they should bring about a change for the better by helping to re-establish the Office of The Holy Roman Emperor, instead of pandering to Serb Nationalists. The Serbs are not going to bring about the Westphalian order. Neither are Chronicles readers at this rate.
So much for astuteness
Michael Warning wrote:
"The Black Hand was anti-imperialistic secret society made up of Serbs set upon destroying the continuance of the Office of The Holy Roman Emperor. It succeeded in its goal. The world is now run by USA, EU, UN, Russia, China and so on."
Is it just me, or our Majestic Buster Of The Serbian Global Conspiracy is just about to bring up some David Ickean wisdom
? Yeah, those evil bastards concocted the whole mess of the UN, they're behind the Philadelphia Experiment and, with no possible doubts, they know who killed Laura Palmer. Heck, they're behind it, those anti-Westphal barbarians.
Now, before this topic goes completely X Files, I would like to add just one more name here. Franz Graf Conrad von Hötzendorf (see link above). The guy was the Chief of the General Staff of the Austro-Hungarian Army, which would put him, hm... very high within the Empire's structure. Anyway, the moustached fellow said "let's do the preemptive strike on Serbia" so many times that it would make Mad Albright and both Bill & Hitlery look like some pitiful wannabes. And it started long before Gavrilo Princip reached the 8th grade of the local school in his hometown of Bosansko Grahovo.
Anyway, as General von Hötzendorf said in one of his letters to Gen. Oskar Potiorek (long before the assassination): "I would risk the existence of the Monarchy itself, for the very opportunity to wage the war against Serbs".
As for the assassination; Michael conveniently forgets to mention that the very event was preceded by the military manoeuvres at the very border with Serbia, observed by the Archduke and organized by Potiorek (at the time, the Austrian governor of newly-annexed Bosnia-Herzegovina). The whole thing was openly set to provoke the Serbs (already ruthlessly downtrodden/routinely humiliated and denied of their basic rights in Bosnia where they formed a majority of population), reaching its peak at the fateful St. Vitus Day parade. And the ignorance of the claim that "the assassination started the WW1" is just outrageously hopeless. Europe was at the brink of the all-out war at least a decade before Sarajevo. Just go to the nearest library and take some book on the early 20th century in European diplomacy and politics and the lack of balance between the major Euro powers (preferably, with no global conspiracy-based looney stuff in it) , and try to read it back to back. You'll find the most inconvenient but simple fact: AUSTRIA was the one to constantly add insult to injury to the European order. Heck, they were condemned even by Germany for grabbing Bosnia, which nearly led to the war in 1908.
Anyhow, I'm inclined to see both Franz Ferdinand and Gavrilo Prinzip as the symbols of tragedy and heroism of their time. But, what Ferdinand saw as his dynastic duty, Prinzip felt as the tyranny of a foreign power. And those two hardly mix together. Americans, of all nations, should know that,or they would still be genuflecting to the Queen of Britain.
Ferdinand was, most probably, the last Habsburg who tried to rebuild the idea of his forefathers' monarchy, however outlived the very concept was. The only problem was that the Habsburg Monarchy had been irreversibly disfigured into a tiresome dinosaur, held in contempt by practically all of its freedom-seeking nations, including the second constitutional element, Hungary.
While Prinzip, for all the infantile follies of contemporary anarchist fascinations of him and his friends, was a boy who had witnessed too many sufferings and humiliations borne onto his people, during his young life. Plus, the bullet that killed Sophie, was meant for Potiorek who had been driving in the same car with Ferdinand and Sophie on that fateful day. Which Gavrilo had never forgiven to himself, burdened by guilt of inadvertantly killing a woman and missing a man who brought a savage genocide to his people just a few months after,both due to his lack of a basic knowledge to handle the revolver properly. So much of the Great Conspiracy
that Michael dreams about - the act was executed by the young man who could have hardly carried a weapon.
Michael Warning,
First you need to learn the European as well as Balkan history; I recommend non-revised addition of history 101. Second the assassination archduke Ferdinand was just an excuse used to start WWI, Germany advised/recommended to Austria-Hungry to give Serbia an Ultimatum that was the July Ultimatum, that Serbs would refuse, needles to say the Serbs refused and the rest is history. It absolutely did not have anything to do with Serbian nationalism, or their right to self determination, it had everything to do with, control of all Europe then as well as today, economically as well as militarily by almost the same forces. It is naïve for you to blame the Serbs for WWI; the assassin was a Bosnian Serb tired of being occupied by the then benevolent Austrian-Hungarian Empire, he was not a Serb from Serbia, and definitely not fighting for Greater Serbia, as was insinuated by Germany, not only then but today as well. It appears that Germany is afraid of having Serbs leaving in one single state.
Third Serbia fought against the Central Powers, led by the Austro-Hungarian, German, and Ottoman Empires; those Empires were defeated and buried in the Balkans. The Entente Powers, led by France, Russia, the British Empire, and later Italy (from 1915) and the United States (from 1917) defeated the Central Powers and this led to the creation of Yugoslavia (The Kingdom of Serbs Croats and Slovenes) and The League of Nations. Then WWII was started by almost the same forces, the Axis powers led by Germany against the Allies led by UK, US, and Russia defeated the Axis powers, once again Serbia fought on the side of the allies, and once again Serbia sacrificed its youth. This conflict led to the creation of the United Nation, and upgrade to the League of Nations. The UN has a Charter by which the modern civilization would rule and prevent future wars, unfortunately this same Charter is being abused by the so-called super powers, especially the US, which has hand picked almost all the Secretary Generals to subvert the UN Charter in order to pursue self interests. After WWII the cold war was started, it was a division of east and west, and it pitted USSR and mostly Eastern European countries against the Western European countries. This led to the creation of NATO a Western European defense organization and Warsaw Pact an Eastern European defensive organization. Note, that Serbia was not part of either of these organizations; it actually started a alternative organization called the Non Aligned Movement (NAM) in order to diffuse super power influence in the third world. The Western Europe also created an economic organization called the EU, an attempt to create a super state, similar to what the Nazi Germany wanted to create in WWII. After the collapse of the USSR in 1980 Warsaw Pact sized to exist, while NATO, and EU continued to expend (I believe this will lead to a greater conflict in future), eastward towards Russia the successor state to USSR. NATO has since been used as an offensive organization, led by the US to subvert, conquer and impose its will on smaller insignificant countries of the third world; Yugoslavia was the first victim of the new morphed NATO in 1990/91, and 1999.
Forth the US took advantage of USSR collapse and wanted to fill the void left by the collapse of the USSR. The US got itself involved in the sphere of influence wherever USSR was involved, the Balkans was one such area, so not to be outdone by Germany of the past, the US decided to give the Serbs an Ultimatum at the end of 20 century as well, it was called the Rambouillet Agreement, it was created for Albanians to except and Serbs to never except it, which would guarantee attack on Serbia by NATO (a defensive organization). This led to illegal bombing of the then Yugoslavia (FRY), and occupation of Kosovo. Serbia did not unconditionally surrender, it defended its territory, and UN SCR 1244 was created, guarantying Serbia that Kosovo is an integral part of Serbia.
The issue here is Serbs are tired of being occupied, dictated to, divided in to many smaller insignificant states, and denied the right to live in one big state, as say Germans in Germany, Italians in Italy, etc. There is a pattern of abuse here, historically the Balkans has been used by many powers to flex their muscles, Serbs historically always stood up to those powers, today will not be any different. It clearly appears that the outside powers have not learned anything from the past, but also shows that Serbs have not learned anything from the past either since they keep sacrificing their youth, first in WWI, then in WWII, all for not. The latest conflicts were western induced to undo what was done in those two Great Wars, the topology of Europe now looks almost exactly as it did before WWI. These events seem to be getting out of control just like prior to WWI, the US is involved with NATO in redrawing of Borders in the Balkans and now Middle East as well. It s just a matter of time before a third World War is started, since once again we have many defensive treaties amongst many smaller nation and super powers. China military is on the rise, so is Russia’s and India’s; they have all ready created an Asian defensive organization to counter NATO’s meddling in Asia, the clock is ticking.
“Vitus with his tutor and nurse fled to Lucania and then to Rome, where he exorcised Emperor Diocletian's son of an evil spirit. Vitus would not sacrifice to the gods, and his cure was attributed to sorcery. Arrested again, this time with the household he had brought with him. Tortured. Freed from prison during a storm in which temples were destroyed; an angel led them back to Lucania.”
Please… the Serbs are going to use St Vitus to justify the act of regicide? Honestly. Did St Vitus assassinate the Roman Emperor Diocletian? No. St Vitus was a faithful obedient citizen of the Roman Empire. St Vitus did not rebel against the authority of the Roman Emperor. St Vitus did not try to overthrow the Roman Empire. But the Serbs did. The Serbs killed Archduke Ferdinand it was a horrible act of regicide by the Serbs. The Serbs did not want to be under the sweet yolk of the Austrian Hungarian Empire. The Serbs hated the house of Hapsburg and rebelled against it. The behavior of the Serbian Nation in nothing close to St Vitus and his Piety and love of Authority of the Roman Emperor.
Honestly, St Vitus was no fomenter of rebellion. How dare Serbs invoke St Vitus.
St Vitus is one of the fourteen Holy Helpers not destroyers. Look elsewhere Serbs if you want to invoke spirits that promote rebellion and regicide.
I get the impression that Mr. Warning is sympathetic to the ideals exemplified by Chronicles/paleoconservativism, so I'm less inclined to join in the pile-on.
Certainly I share his sympathy & respect for the Austro-Hungarian Empire, which Evelyn Waugh described through one of his characters as "a true league of nations".
All that being said, I'm a little reluctant to point to any era or regime of the past and attempt to lionize them as Edenic -- the implication being that the only reason X ever fell was because it was infiltrated by evil outsiders.
The evil, mes amis, is inside.
It's analogous to Republicans claiming that the only problems in America are the result of liberals infiltrating our society. Prior to the 60's, why, we were on the way to building Heaven-on-Earth.
Or how many of my fellow-Catholics, for example, sometimes speak as if the Middle Ages in the West were an utterly pristine and perfect period that was only ruined by a few Protestants & Enlightenment thinkers.
With regards to that sentiment, as well as the implication that the pre-WWI European order was somehow self-sustaining and could have lasted forever had not for the villain Princip entered the picture, I would point out that the tragedies and farces of the present are usually the outcome of sins of the past.
That is, the aristocrats and establishment leaders of Europe were very often the ones who played about with the ideas and ideologies that were to destroy their order -- modernism, industrialism, centralized progressive nationalism, etc.
Or to put it in the words of Robert Penn Warren:
"What you mean is that it was a fine, beautiful time back then, but I
mean that if it was such a God-damned fine, beautiful time, why did it
turn into this time which is not so damned fine and beautiful if there
wasn’t something in that time which wasn’t fine and beautiful?"
I don't think "the Serbs" is an adequate answer to the question.
all of this over-discussion above reminds me of the old adage the fights in academia are so fierce because the stakes are so low.
(i.e. ain't much there.)
but i hear You - because corresponsingly - if you have a little it's a lot to lose. no?
these things bore me since, say - me and the pope could solve them overnight -
but we're not 'allowed' to. how many divisions has the pope, said stalin.
none. the swiss guard.
Mr. Warning, I'm terribly sorry, but you still fail to produce a decent counter-argument on my suggestion that the war had been invoked (by Austria)for quite a long period before the whole Princip/Ferdinand-thing took place. You're ranting on the Serbian "misuse of the St. Vitus symbolism" instead, which doesn't help your point by a long shot. There is hardly ANY Christian nation without at least one of the Christian saints taken as its "guardian". And your logic here implies that, say, the Irish have no right to celebrate St. Patrick because at least one of them, throughout their history, must have done something against some other nation's member on that day.
If I were up to punching below the belt, I could easily remind that the complete political identity of the most brutal Nazi slaughterhouse during the WW2, called "Independent State of Croatia", was built on the strong Christian (Roman Catholic) symbolism. And, yes, some friars took part in the mass murders of Serbs, Jews and Roma in the concentration camps, some nuns ran the concentration camps for children, and many other horrors took place. And that would make it a little worse than a bloke killing a (foreign) prince visiting his (occupied) country and observing the sinisterly warlike manoeuvres of the (foreign) army which had been the utmost symbol of the occupation at the first place.
So, following your logic, I should:
a. hate ALL Croats and Catholics on this planet for something that some of them did;
b. renounce my own Christian faith (because some criminals
used the names and symbols of the Holy Trinity and various saints as an excuse of killing my people).
Anyway,this is hardly a manner of having a relevant discussion... Nevertheless, you are entitled t like or dislike whomever you want, but you should not elevate your own opinion at some pedestal of truth, despite the facts that prove you wrong.
Mr. S.,
as always, an insightful comment. Believe it or not, I can completely understand your sympathies and respect toward the Habsburg Monarchy. Or, in general, the sympathies from the perspective of a Western traditionalist toward such an important European house and its legacy. I will not burden this topic with the history of the long and complicated relation between the Habsburgs and the Serbs (which often appeared to be quite more than just an "enmity"), but I think I can say with some confidence that they happened to be strikingly intertwined throughout the history of that restless part of Europe.
Anyway, the Habsburgs, at their peak, were indeed one of the strongest pillars that the Old Europe relied on. But, it couldn't have lasted forever, that's for sure. Having a state from Venice to Poland, manoeuvring around with the rest of the great powers of Europe (France, Russia, England, Prussia/Germany, even the Ottomans for the some part), constantly simmering down the separate identities and interests of nations included... It took both great diplomacy and the tough army... But, it was unrealistic to expect that all those Czechs, Slovaks, Ruthenians, Poles, Rumanians, Croats, Jews, Italians, Serbs... would eventually fall in love with the foreign yoke & renounce their own identities in order of serving a German dynasty happily ever after. Not to mention the mutual complexities between some of those nations, apart from their relations with the Habsburgs... Plus, the only recognized non-German constituent state within the monarchy, Hungary, spent the great part of its history attempting to split ways with Vienna. Pretty big mess, I would say, in the midst of great changes within Europe's social, national and cultural structures of the XIX century. So the fall was imminent, one way or another. In case you've read A.J.P. Taylor's
"The Habsburg Monarchy 1809–1918", you've got a pretty precise hint on the Austrian situation throughout the century that happened to be the eve of its demise.
Anyhow, Austria and the Habsburg would require a different topic.
FELIX AUSTRIA, eminently worthy of respect before Napoleon, disgraced herself with Schwarzenberg's wanton ungratitude to Russia, which -- unwisely -- saved the Monarchy by intervening against Kossuth in 1849. In the run-up to the Crimean War, and every step of the way until the end more than 60 yrs later, Vienna followed a policy of unremitting hostility to Russia. The near-universal hatred against the house of Habsburg east of the Leitha had blurred this important fact. Schwarzenberg's folly was a sin and -- worse still -- a mistake. The price was paid in an uninterrupted string of subsequent defeats and losses (Lombardy, Venice, Koenigratz/Sadowa, Kolubara...) Towards the end, the Dual, i.e. Kaiserlich und Koeniglich, K-u-K Monarchy was aptly known by her own subjects as KaKania, FaecesLand.