Half a Billion “Americans”?

by Srdja Trifkovic

August 31st, 2007 • Related • Filed Under

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The latest report from the Center for Immigration Studies on how immigration may impact the future size of America’s population has been released. Their findings are based on the Census Bureau projections, and show that if immigration continues at current levels, the U.S. population will increase from 301 million today to 468 million in 2060—a 167 million (or 56 percent) increase. New immigrants and their descendants will account for 105 million (or 63 percent) of that increase.

The report says that, at the moment, approximately 1.6 million legal and illegal immigrants settle in the United States each year and 350,000 leave, resulting in net immigration of 1.25 million. The total projected growth of 167 million would exceed the current total population of Central America (41 million), the Caribbean (37 million) and Egypt (79 million). The 105 million from immigration by itself is equal to the present population of Mexico.

Even those staggering figures are based on the assumption that immigration levels will remain static. Net immigration has been increasing for the past half-century, however, and there are no signs that the trend is changing. If it continues, the increase caused by immigration may well be higher than the projected 105 million—taking us easily to an America of half a billion people five decades from now.

On the other hand, if the annual level of net immigration was reduced to 300,000—which can be done if the political will is present—future immigration would add 25 million people to the population by 2060. That would be some 80 million fewer than the current level would add.

One of the most interesting findings of the report is that immigration does not have an impact on the overall aging of this country’s population—which is a key argument used by the proponents of open-door policy. In reality,

At the current level of net immigration (1.25 million a year), 61 percent of the nation’s population will be of working age (15 to 66) in 2060, compared to 60 percent if net immigration were reduced to 300,000 a year. If net immigration was doubled to 2.5 million a year it would raise the working-age share of the population by one additional percentage point, to 62 percent, by 2060. But that level of immigration would create a U.S. population of 573 million, double its size in the 2000 Census.

The report does not tackle the national security aspect of the problem. The number of Muslim immigrants in the united States is growing more than twice as fast as the already rampant total. Growth of overall immigration since 1970 has been 300 percent, but growth of immigration from the Middle East over the same period has been 700 percent—from under 200,000 in 1970 to 1.5 million in 2000. In 2005, more people from Muslim countries became legal permanent U.S. residents—almost 100,000—than in any year in the previous two decades. More than 40,000 of them were admitted legally in 2005, the highest annual number since the terrorist attacks, according to data on 22 countries provided by the Department of Homeland Security.

On current form, in 2010 the expected number of immigrants from the Middle East alone will exceed 2,500,000. Lavishly financed by Saudi and other Middle Eastern oil money, an intricate jihadist infrastructure has come into being to cater to this large and growing community. The number of mosques and Islamic centers stands at around two thousand and keeps growing. The total number of mosques increased 42 percent between 1990 and 2000, compared with a 12 percent average increase for the evangelical Protestant denominations, and a two percent average increase among old-line Protestant, Roman Catholic and Orthodox groups.

The figures for immigration from the Middle East are already matched, and are likely to be exceeded, by the number of Muslim immigrants from the Indian Sub-Continent (Pakistan, India, Bangladesh). Currently Muslims account for one-tenth of all naturalizations, and their birth rates exceed those of any other significant immigrant group.

Far from enhancing America’s “diversity,” the coming deluge threatens to impose a numbing Thirld-World sameness, to eradicate the remnants of this country’s identity, and to demolish what survives of her special character. On current form, not only will English-speaking Americans of European origin become a minority in their own country half a century from now, but they will share an increasingly overpopulated, polluted, lumpenproleterized, culturally unrecognizable country with tens of millions of actual or potential jihadists and their accomplices, aiders and abettors.

Whether this colossally criminal idiocy can be stopped, and how, is open to doubt. The cultural-Marxist ruling class sees self-annihilation of peoples with a historical memory and a cultural identity as the key to its revolutionary project. The founders of the United States rebelled against King George for sins far lighter than those of which our rulers are culpable.

Comments

There Are 241 Responses So Far. »

1 Comment by Bede on 31 August 2007:

This is something about which many Americans have not thought. For the sake of “development,” “GDP” and “multiculturalism” many places in America could have as many as 800 people per square mile, and once sparsely populated places in the South and Midwest (previously at around 25 per square mile) could have as many as 200 – 300.

If this trend continues, America most certainly will cease being an Anglo / European country, and will most likely become a third-world wasteland.
2 Comment by Bede on 31 August 2007:

There is also the trend of mestizos in the U.S. converting to Islam.

Already, according to Christian Science Monitor, over 200,000 Hispanics in the U.S. have converted to Islam.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0928/p03s02-ussc.html
3 Comment by René on 31 August 2007:

A topic i can relate to. In the Netherlands the issue of Immigration and Islamisation has been put on the political agenda 6 years ago by a homosexual politician, who was killed a year later by the leftist-environmentalist Volkert van der Graaf. Two years later Theo van Gogh, a Dutch filmmaker, was slaughtert in the streets of Amsterdam (shot and stabbed in a islamic ritualistic way) by Mohammed Bouyeri, a ‘radicalised’ muslim.

Government programs were set up to stop ‘radicalisation’of muslims. Special treatment to stop the underprivillization of muslim immigrants (which according to OUR cultural-marxist elites is the real couse of muslim-terrorism) They could not be any more stupid.

Close your borders now!
4 Comment by John Smith on 31 August 2007:

Well, try to post this sort of information to “conservative” forums and see what happens. You’ll be banned. It isn’t just the “cultural-Marxist ruling class” that embraces annihilation, it’s the majority of the victims including the so-called opposition, a fact that makes it unlikely that anything will be done to change things, particularly when you factor in the decadence caused by wealth. Since the New Holocaust is inevitable it’s better that it come on sooner rather than later as it is only just that the feckless generations that brought it about should suffer some of its consequences rather than passing this cultural deficit on to future generations. In particular it will be good to see the look on the faces of Republicans and establishment conservatives when everything they have is taken away from them, when their fake opposition, little more real than the former East Germany’s was, is finally brought to its pathetic end. It will also mean the end of political correctness as the new nonwhite majority tells the left to stuff it.

Here is an interesting story on school segregation that is somewhat relevant to this topic. According to this story 43% of students are already non-white. Note the following lines:

“Contrary to popular belief, the surge in the number of minority children in public schools was not mainly caused by a flight of white students into private schools.

Instead, it said, the post-”baby boom” generation of white Americans are having smaller family sizes.”

Not the policy of mass third-world colonization, you see, but the victims of that policy failing to breed enough to counter the invasion. The fact that this sort of bilge can be published day after day without a peep from the victims of these policies shows just how deeply self-loathing is ingrained in them.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070829/us_nm/usa_schools_segregation_dc
5 Comment by Sid Cundiff Clone on 31 August 2007:

How dare you bring up demographic issues. The mere mention of such makes you a racist.
6 Comment by G.L.A. on 31 August 2007:

Population projections for a fifty year period have only a limited value if for no other reason than they are based on the assumption that the next fifty years in the US will continue like the last fifty years. That will not be the case. There are endless scenerios of what will happen in the US in the next fifty years and most of them offer a major shift in the current order of economics, politics, society or environment. Any major change in the current order could create far less or far greater influx of immigrants into the North American continent, Muslim or otherwise. The same goes for birth rates. Events, not the ruling class in Washington, will determine the future. Water shortages in Southern Calif and South West, electric grid disruption, internet failure, US dollar collapse, Social Security scheme collapse, narco/gang disruption in cities, inhouse Muslim terror, food /energy shortages, etc., etc. By its very nature,the managerial elite of the last fifty years has put in place an artificial, managed order of vulnerable systems upon systems . Some part , if not the whole, managed, global house of cards, could falter and drastically change the demographic future .
One does not have to project the future, but rather only to observe the present to know that the America of the 40’s and 50’s that many of us were born into or the America that our parents or grandparents refered to, is gone forever.
7 Comment by Bernie on 31 August 2007:

Demography is destiny and whites are the only race in the U.S. without a racial consciousness (yet).

By the way, whites are now projected to become a minority in 2038 (it will actually be sooner than that).
8 Comment by Brian Wheeler on 31 August 2007:

I thought non-white immigrants+their offspring=100% of US population because Native Born White Americanss have been reproducing at the zpg level since 1973. What are the facts?

America is a joke nation.

Football season starts this week. We may end up as a racial minority, brutally oppressed by hispanics,muslims,hindus,sikhs carribeans,chinese and nigerians….. but we will still be able -if THEY are nice to us-to watch young multimillionaire negro males running up and down the field in tight spandex chasing dead pig skin.

If we are reduced to a racial minority within the borders of America, They will kill US.
9 Comment by B on 31 August 2007:

“How dare you bring up demographic issues. The mere mention of such makes you a racist.” – Sid Cundiff Clone

Good one. Over at Taki’s Top Drawer everyone has taken to calling Sid Cundiff “David Frum Jr.” because, like Frum, he has started calling anyone a nazi who refuses to conform to political correctness on immigration, free trade, race, or civil rights.

Bernie, I agree. I used to be against the whole “white consciousness” thing. But I have come to realize that it is absolutely necessary. Every other race is able to take pride in its people, history and ancestral traditions. Why are not we?

Although I may disagree with some of the more scientific notions of race and certainly do not denounce Christianity, I do agree with the more traditional notions of kith and kin, blood and soil, ancestral traditions, and genophilia.
10 Comment by Brian Wheeler on 31 August 2007:

B

A lot that “scientific” racialist literature is garbage. It is a religious belief for some people. We can just assume that Mexicans are as smart as White Americans. The case against Mexican immigration doesn’t become any weaker.

Opposing the racial transformation of American doesn’t require us to accept Charles Murray’s world view on race. We can oppose the racial transformation of America on blood and kinship grounds.

Pray for a collapse of the US economy.

A major terrorist attack would speed up immigration reform. I hope one does occur, along with a collapse of the US economy. The complete shutting down of non-white immigration does require the destruction of critical number of White families. There is no other way to wake up ordinary White Americans as soon as poosible.
11 Comment by Ronduck on 31 August 2007:

Lets take this to extreme: What would prevent all of the world’s one billion muslims from immigrating here at once? We already cave in the face of unreasonable demands from ethnic activists. Imagine if large numbers started coming across our southern (and northern) borders, along with large numbers coming here as “tourists”.

Really, what is keeping the other 1 billion from coming here anyway?
12 Comment by B on 31 August 2007:

Brian,

I agree. I think it’s just a short time before more and more white Americans start waking up and develop a white consciousness. Many of my friends and family – liberals and conservatives – are starting to see the writing on the wall. But I do think that you’re right; it will take a number of more travesties, La Razas, Virginia Techs, Duke rape cases, economic collapses, and other incidents before more Americans get it.

I think that the racialist theories emphasizing intelligence just undercut the case. Who cares? If Asians are smarter, then it is even more reason not to let them immigrate here.

As I say above, I have always felt more comfortable with more traditional notions of race, such as those rooted in the ancestral (mos maiorum), kith and kin, blood and soil, and genophilia. In this sense, race is nothing more than extended family.
13 Comment by robert m. peters on 31 August 2007:

#12

“…and other incidents before more Americans get it.”

Americans will not get it! Baring some unexpected intervention like the utter and complete collapse of our economy – which, upon pondering is not so unexpected – we will do nothing to stop the demographic holocaust. We have dethroned marriage; we have contraceptived our way out of the nasty business of children as an unwanted byproduct of our ecstasy-seeking narcissism; we have aborted by the millions the failures of contraception and have even turned that process (death-camp-like) into a billion dollar industry; and we have made what few children we do manage to produce mere exotic accessories such as in – be in and chic and adopt an orphan from Africa or go to Africa and have your child. On the less exotic side of the scale, we make the unwanted urchins wards of the state and use them as pawns in social guilt schemes and transfer of wealth machinations.

If there is a solace in the matter, it is that the left – the Marxists – are ideological and economic parasites on the social body. When the body dies, the parasites will hopefully die along with it.
14 Comment by Brian Wheeler on 31 August 2007:

B
Here is why Sailer and Brimelow are really stupid. If they go on a nationally televised debate on immigration and they say research shows that hispanics and blacks are dumb, precious tv time that could be spent talking about the horrific damage legal asian immigrants inflict on White American families will be wasted debating the finer points of multiple regression analysis. It is just tactically stupid.
My brother is bulled and tortured by a hindu legal immigrant supervisor at work every day. I wish this upon every White America male who plops their spotted bottoms every fall to consume NFL football.
Whatever you think of muslims, they ain’t jock sniffing pussies.
15 Comment by Boba on 31 August 2007:

American Jewish History month – January
Asian Pacific American Heritage Month – May
Caribbean American Heritage Month – June
Black History Month – September
Islamic History and Pride Month — October etc.

NO AMERICAN history month ! Why?
16 Comment by J. on 31 August 2007:

Q: “NO AMERICAN history month ! Why?”

A: Not enough of it to fill a month.
17 Comment by Brian A. Muza on 31 August 2007:

Surely we European-derived peoples have reaped what we’ve sown:

Centuries of internecine warfare, schism, apostasy and infatuation with our own cleverness: the Reformation, the Enlightenment, Marxism, what-have-you…

The godless and misguided pursuit of wealth, and the blissful surrender to pleasure and prurient inanity…

The slaughter of our children in the womb, in wars in pursuit of the above, and the intellectual holocaust of brainwashing of the innocents under the guise of higher education…

We have become so cosmopolitan, so intellectual and so effete, that we now embrace our own extinction as some sort of inevitability, the better to expiate any last remnant of our evil existence…

It is now a universally-acknowledged axiom that the European race is an obscenity on the face of the earth. No more gruesome menace, no more fearsome butcher, has ever strode this planet. The white man must die out, unlamented…

And yet we commit grave sin when, in darker moments, the sheer horror of what our folly has wrought compels us to wish for some unspeakable tribulation (as if this were too prove the merit of our own beliefs, kin and culture). We must resist this impulse, if for no other reason than the demand of Christian charity. We must never give in to despair; we must act nobly, virtuously and be worthy champions of all that is good and great in our patrimony.

But what are we to do? In another posting, I postulated that perhaps we are witnessing nothing more than the logical conclusion of a nation born of Enlightenment error. That our country’s influence is so great is cold comfort that the West in general has followed our demise.

If there is no hope for America, which I am willing to entertain for the sake of argument, what can we do? We have a duty to protect our cultural/religious patrimony, even if the barbarians at the gates look exactly like us. Indeed, were we any safer from the juggernaut of white leftists who have so successfully destroyed our popular culture, our schools, our media, and have taken over almost all major modes of common discourse? Certainly not.

Perhaps – and this is merely a hypothesis about which I will be very intrigued to read your further learned commentary – we need to return to our European homeland and strengthen the bosom of our progenitors. If the identity of this country has been corrupted to the point where it is no longer recognizable and it no longer commands our emotional attachment, then we may be well-advised to abandon it as a failed campaign and go home. This may not be as preposterous as it may appear at first blush – it may very well be our destiny, for the survival of the Church and our culture is at stake.

Perhaps – just perhaps – this ‘experiment’ was doomed from its very beginning. I look forward to your responses.
18 Comment by Rummy on 1 September 2007:

Listen to Rene.

The US must close their borders. Europe is already flooded with muslims, who do not integrate.

The Netherlands is one of the prime examples of ‘what not to do’ and a very bad immigration policy. The US must save itself or the West will simply die this century. Europe is probably gone.
19 Comment by Truth on 1 September 2007:

1) To Brian Wheeler: Your brother fantasizes about killing his Indian supervisor. Why don’t you just tell him to report the guy for tax evasion? Fill out a form to the IRS, and anonymously send it to the IRS. Keep doing this until a file is built on him large enough to peak the IRS’s interest. No one’s records are perfect and I’m sure this “legal” immigrant has a lot of skeletons in his closet. Just be sure to wipe your computer after such use to destroy any evidence of your false witness.

2) As far as some terrible tragedy occurring, I believe America will change after a nuclear weapon goes off in New York City. The discovery of chemical weapons is only the beginning.

3) Take heart in one important aspect: a multicultural America means the various non-white people will be unable to communicate with each other and, therefore, unable to organize. Better yet, they will wage war among each other. You think blacks and Mexicans and Chinese and Indians are all going to get along when they can’t even understand each other? Whites will be able to play these people off each other with no problem. Look how Hispanics are destroying blacks.
20 Comment by René on 1 September 2007:

Rummy said: “…who do not integrate.”

Well, the problem is that the whole concept of integration is nonsens. If we demand our cultural identity to be preserved, why can’t immigrants do the same thing. How can someone with a rich cultural tradition ’shake of his cultural feathers’ in an instance to live like a Anglo-Saxon-wannabe? This will never happen. Therefore, mass-immigration is mass-colonization. Which is heavilly supported by the Marxist-elites in the name of Cosmopolitanism (little do they know that exotic cultures have the opposite agenda)

In the Netherlands we have a secular ‘right’-wing. Politicians who claim to be conservative, actually set up government programs to stimulate new immigrants to accept libertine sexual lifestyles, homosexuality, druguse and social-democracy. New immigrants actually have to take tests to prove their ‘tolerant’ enough to enter the Netherlands. So, you wanna be Dutch? Ride a along the Gay-pride-parade with a big joint and get your pasport afterwards. Could you really blame furious muslims who cannot stand the shameless Dutch anarcho-libertarian morality?

Is Europe Lost? Burke said: “The age of chivalry is gone; that of sophisters, economists, and calculators has succeeded.” I think he was right. In the Netherlands we have few paleo’s. Against an army of modernists i almost feel like king Leonidas starring upon the Persian massive forces. I hope the odds in the US are better. Or else you will suffer the same fate.
21 Comment by Michael Kenny on 1 September 2007:

At age 57, I’m old enough to remember what people were saying 50 years ago about what today’s world would be like and none of it happened! “Futurists” basically project present trends forward while assuming that nothing else will change. 50 years ago, nobody would have predicted the fall of communism, the success of the EU, the decline of the US, political ecology or the Muslim rennaissance, to mention but a few. One of the more absurd predictions of that day was that people would all travel by helicopter (public transport would, naturally, have died of its own uselessness!). 50 yeras ago, the predictions were all rosy and none of it happened. Why should we now believe the dire predictions of today. man is very adaptable and will no doubt adapt to what the future brings just as he has done so in the past.

As somebody said, the future is not what it used to be!
22 Comment by Kirt Higdon on 1 September 2007:

I guess that there have been concerns about immigration since the time of the Indians and considering what happened to the Indians, many would say rightly so. Since I have lived all of my adult life surrounded by immigrants in cities where immigrants were a very high percentage of the population and along with their immediate American born offspring even a majority of the population, I am not too worried about this. My life has been tremendously enriched by my contact with immigrants and negative incidents have been quite few.

Imagine the opposite situation – a rapidly aging population suffering a decline of hundreds of thousands every year with the young people leaving as soon as they can find the opportunity to do so. Would anyone prefer this? Such a situation does exist in Russia and some other East European countries.
23 Comment by Jimmy on 1 September 2007:

Well, Rene

You’re not the only Paleo out there in the Netherlands.

I’m right there with you.
24 Comment by Red Phillips on 1 September 2007:

“I pray Al- Queda incinerates a NFL football stadium this fall.”

Mr. Wheeler, that is WAY over the line. Are you a Moby?
25 Comment by William Robert Outlaw on 1 September 2007:

Mr. Muza,

“…infatuation with our own cleverness: the Reformation…”

The Reformation was an infatuation with our own cleverness? Exactly the opposite. It was an attempt to get back to the cleverness of the Bible that the Catholic Church had been diluting with the supposed “cleverness” of man.

Billy Bob
26 Comment by Brian Wheeler on 1 September 2007:

Red Phillips

I don’t know what a moby is. I do stand by my statement. There is a large population of White Americans who have bought into a foolish individualitic myth-well documented in Morris Berman’s books- about how they made it all on their own. In doing this they have disconnected themselves from even the most minimal solidarity with their fellow White Americans.

If Al Queda nuked a football stadium on a fall Sunday afternoon it would send a stong message to a large number of White males that business as usual=death.

If White America allows this to happen to my brother, I will have no sympathy for the grieving widows whose husbands have been turned into carbon ash by a Russian mini-nuke acquired by AL-Queda.
27 Comment by Brian Wheeler on 1 September 2007:

The much larger threat is not jets being flown into buildings by young American born muslim males or mini-nukes detonated in major American cities by young American born muslim males.

This is all small potatoes compared to the demograhic warfare that post-1965 legal immigrants-hispanic,asian and muslim-and their offspring are waging against Euro-Amerians. It is ultimately genocidal in consquences….and intent.
28 Comment by Brian Wheeler on 1 September 2007:

Kurt Higdon

If you feel enriched living in spanish speaking foreign cities, then you should pack up and go live in Mexico City. Don’t impose your preference on the rest of us.

I did an interent search and see that you are fluent in spanish. You will do just fine in Mexico.
29 Comment by Kirt Higdon on 1 September 2007:

Mr. Wheeler, I am satisfied with the demographic make-up of the community in which I live. If you have difficulty getting along in your community, perhaps you are the one who should pack up and leave rather than demanding that of others.
30 Comment by Iliya Pavlovich on 1 September 2007:

From what I could see in Dr. Trfkovic’s excellent (what else is new?) analysis, the numbers are rather freightening, but even worse yet (if you can imagine worse than that) is the fear that many of the “new or future” Americans would not be quite “integrated” into the American culture and society as contributing members. This could be even more ominous if there really are millions of “lavishly funded Saudi mosques” – as Muslims are known to NOT INTEGRATE. I only wish there was a deeper overview of the following paragraph:

“Lavishly financed by Saudi and other Middle Eastern oil money, an intricate jihadist infrastructure has come into being to cater to this large and growing community. The number of mosques and Islamic centers stands at around two thousand and keeps growing. The total number of mosques increased 42 percent between 1990 and 2000, compared with a 12 percent average increase for the evangelical Protestant denominations, and a two percent average increase among old-line Protestant, Roman Catholic and Orthodox groups.”
31 Comment by Bill Gardner on 1 September 2007:

Reminds one of Carl Sagan “billions & billions err well, half a billion.” Think of all the Whoppers and Big Macs sold, and all of the suckers poisoned by the pharmaceutical state-capitalists & their hypnotizing media. “Billions & billions……” I have a question aren’t there trillions of stars? I hope so. That would be a relief. That’s my kind of exterior decorator! The sidewalk astronomers are cool. Ever see the moon closeUp. They’ll show it to you right on a street corner. Only one side of the moon faces earth always…because the moon stopped revolving since apparently it’s in a tug-of-war with our seas, 2/3rds of our planet’s surface. So picture that…the tug-of-war with the moon, the tide going out, the moon winning, the tide coming in, the seas winning, back and forth back and forth. But we never SEE even with the help of the sidewalk astronomers, The Dark Side Of The Moon. “Billions and billions there are billions and billions…Questions?”

What-?-no trillions? Most people don’t even see the dark side of their own moon, i’d surmise. Probably why kids show it to one another from bus windows.
32 Comment by Dave K on 1 September 2007:

B

In response to Brian you state that if the Asians are smart that is all greater reason to keep them out. Your argument is pathetic. If you have any intellectual honesty at all you should hold to the argument that the superior culture should, by any sense of justice, ultimately be preeminent. If the Asians, or any other group, have developed their culture to the point that they are our betters, by all that is just they deserve to overcome us. If we have allowed our culture to slip into degeneration, by all that is just we deserve to fall as Rome fell, as Britain fell, as the Reich fell, as all degenerate cultures fall. To say less place you on a par with the Negro racists that manufacture mythical “African American culture” to instill a false pride when, in fact, as a culture, they have little or nothing of which to be proud.

The problem is not keeping out equal or superior cultural elements. The tragic problem is that we continue to import the cultural dregs of the world society into our nation. Thus, we hasten the cultural decline already evidenced by the current trend of white American youth to adopt Negro “hip-hop” thug culture into our language, our mode of dress, our music and our sexual mores.

Read a bit about the “Frankfort school”. They detailed the long-term blueprint many years ago to destroy western, capitalist society and culture many years ago…and the plan is working quite well. Developing a sense of cultural indifference, if not actual self loathing, is a critical element of the plan. The “diversity is good” mantra that we are all forced to parrot under the pain of being labeled a hate mongering racist is right from the Frankfort game plan. Democrats and Republicans, particularly the traitor Bush are equally culpable. If diversity is indeed per se good, I suppose that it is best not to differentiate healthy cellular reproduction from carcinoma.

No, I say let the superior cultures enter and perhaps act as a catalyst to the white race to again strive for excellence and incise the putrid flesh of inferior members of our national body. If white European culture does not see fit to imitate its betters, it deserves to go the way off all previous inferior cultures…death at the hands of the barbarians.
33 Comment by Marc on 1 September 2007:

Well, if this isn’t motivation to get my dual Italian citizenship, I don’t know what is.

I’m serious. I’m getting out of this country. How can I stay here and hope to raise children in this country, when I see where it is going? At least in Europe, we have a chance.
34 Comment by Bill Gardner on 1 September 2007:

why is my above comment under review? are the secret police out to get me for speaking the truth. the truth is often horrible, sometimes very sweet, and of course points inbetween… speak it as you can. that’s my motto. God isn’t love ‘as if’ only… God is also love. BE WARE OF GOD, too. look, out – here comes God…those welcoming him, fear not.
35 Pingback by Eunomia · The Roundup on 1 September 2007:

[...] Trifkovic has a new article on the demographic impact of current immigration levels, another on Pakistan, another on Kosovo, [...]
36 Comment by Jimmy on 1 September 2007:

@Marc

In Europe, you have a chance… Oh My God, my dear man. I don’t think so, we’re all in this together. As always. This immigration nonsense is probably only uncommon in Eastern Europe.

Better try Australia, if you prefer something better.

Or stay in the US.
37 Comment by Steve Berg on 1 September 2007:

As one who always tries to look at the bright side of things, I expect that since there is not enough food here for a half billion people, nor enough water, electricity, or other essential utilities, and the infrastructure is already crumbling under the current population load it is most likely that when things get tighter, many of the current influx are going to leave. Probably enough so that we can maintain some semblance of being at or below the human range capacity of our land. The Hamiltonians require unending growth of population to fuel their system. This eventually runs smack into range capacity issues that technology cannot overcome. The Hamiltonians remind me of an old computer programming cartoon where two programmers are looking at a flow chart on a blackboard. In one action box are the words “then a miracle occurs” and one of the men points to it and tells the other that more work is needed in this part of the program. Yes, and what do we do when the miracle is not forthcoming? Well, we paleos had best be ready to pick up the pieces when that happens. Study carefully the work habits of and technologies of the Amish.
38 Comment by Bill Gardner on 1 September 2007:

Hold your ground men!!!!! I once told to sam francis whom I adored as a beautiful loser, me too – even hindsight – i knew we’d lose at the Alamo… i’m still going to die therein… if they’ll let me.

LAND. Hold your ground. some would say you knew it was now ‘famous’ (the hallowed Alamo) – no – call me to your house or backyard or town… no place better to die than defending one’s own LAND. If victorious, go on from THERE. Way it is.

Focused minds, Full hearts, Must Win, – where do we Win-?- Look up at the heavens, and point to them – under God! (where else!?!)

or run… ok
39 Comment by Jimmy on 1 September 2007:

@Dave K

You’re both right and not right. From a Darwinian viewpoint, it is possible to conclude that we (the West) can’t adapt to new times and therefore we must perish. But this is not the way Darwin always works.

It is not always survival of the fittest, but mostly surival of the survivors. Reason, wealth and peace are great, but not enough. Although I value these things deeply.Survival needs brute force and luck too, these are key aspects for survival.

The current West lacks both. We lack any sense of self defense, up to the point of absurdity. Cultural strength is considered an almost fascist tendency. Strong = wrong — indeed those Frankfurter School guys. And luck, well… Excepting babies, luck is the other thing we ran out of.

Things need to change or ‘Abendland’ will indeed fall.
40 Comment by Marc on 1 September 2007:

The demographics in Europe are nowhere near as bad as in the U.S. Germany is still overwhelmingly (like, 90+%) German, and births to their largest immigrant group (the Turks) peaked in the late 90’s and have been falling even faster than the German fertility rate. Italy is still 90% Italian and while the births to immigrants in that country have been rising, at least forty percent of those immigrants are Eastern Europeans. Even France, which is 10% Muslim, doesn’t face the prospect of demographic dissolution as we do.

I’m serious, I’m saving up my money, having a small brood of children, then picking up and heading to Europe. I’m not raising my kids in a Third World or Latin American country–and the USA is slowly but surely becoming both.
41 Comment by Bill Gardner on 1 September 2007:

Banana republic yes – & now for You (in terms of your stated dreams) too late. you ain’t saving no money… having a small brood of kids and moving (sweet moron) … Your only luck and chance (sweet Jesus or lucifer, whichever you really are with that post) is to GO – if you won’t let go of the dream here (postponed), and FIGHT. You don’t have the cubes.

Here’s your new dream/reality… in the next life an apartment, in the city of the dead. (no rent)
42 Comment by Mark Depré on 1 September 2007:

Mr Wheeler,

I guess you don’t like football or just watch it on TV ?
43 Comment by DAVEK on 1 September 2007:

Jimmy

Well said. Brute strength inevitably must support the philosopher. In my observance of history, animal man always overtakes civilized man when the latter forgets the close in fighting and often brutal means by which he must defend himself.

Consider the native American who had the will the defend his culture, even though he had not the technological means to defend it. Ultimately, that he had not developed the technological means that Europeans had developed was symptomatic of the general deficiency of his culture. The fact that he could not overcome Europeans was proof that his culture was only fit for subjugation. Europeans had the technological means and the will to use it…that is why we were winners, and rightly so.

Now we have the technological means, but not the will to use it to survive and overcome. In that, the Native Americans surely bested us in honor and nobility. He fought for what he believed and in that, he had nobility. It has been said, the oputcome of the war does not consecrate the battle, rather, the quality of the battle consecrates the war. Who loses such faith in his culture that he is unwilling to defend it when he has the means to do so, is truly only fit for slavery.
44 Comment by Nicholas G.P. MOSES on 1 September 2007:

Marc is not the only young American male yearning to get out before his country is subsumed into the Third World. Although, I have to say I envy his apparently easy prospects of dual nationality… I’m just looking for possible paths right now. An architectural license may be the best way forward…
45 Comment by Bill Gardner on 1 September 2007:

perish the thought… fight for your homeland… instead the fake out ‘Homeland Security’ … while again YOU pay for them giving it away. Whatever.

That’s sadly apparently Who YOU are, … i tried to help.

They’re celebrating…in bohemian grove california. they like boys, and other sacrifices… probably so will you without the cubes. carry-on.

No, i’m kidding it’s beyond that. There’s only knowing you’ve been defeated, and damage control. I agree.

I just want them if they read this to have to take their own ant-acids… and FEAR bigtime (like they do) they’d ever meet me. They will.
46 Comment by Steve Berg on 1 September 2007:

Ironically Marc has the right idea, but the wrong direction. Instead of retreating to alien soil, he ought to be defending what he has. And for all the cultural Darwinists here, I think you are also misguided. I had to listen to some really stupid orations and orders while I was in the infantry, but at least none of them were to the effect of “On line…for Culture!” We would have fragged any officer who was that much of an idiot. (We did have some who were close to being that bad.) Instead, get a copy of Thucydides History, and read the orations there, especially those of Phormio and Brasidas. You might also learn from a combat veteran of the Persian wars, Aeschylus. Here is what he said was an oration at the beginning of the battle of Salamis: “O sons of Greece, go forward! Free your native soil. Free your children, your wives, the images of your fathers’ gods, and the tombs of your ancestors! Now the fight is for all that.” The Persians (401-4) The term culture is amorphous and flimsy. While in combat I fought for the safety of my friends and myself. Now, if some heathen insults Beethoven and Shakespeare, I am not too much inclined to waste him. But if he threatens my family, home or friends, he is in very serious trouble. He had best be ready to meet his ancestors and discuss his serious shortcomings with them for all eternity.
47 Comment by Jimmy on 1 September 2007:

In the end we will triumph this immigration invasion madness menace. There is no doubt in my mind. After all, the West’s been around for three millennia. We will find a way out. However, the road towards freedom will be a long one.

F.E. today, I was in an argument with a Turkish muslim on another internet forum. It was a heated discussion, yet respectful from both sides. He was talking in favour of Islam, I was in favour of the West. Out of nothing, some Western girl interfered and accused me of being beligerrent and insensitive. My mistake? I pointed out that Western society had become more civilized than the muslim world. Jee… Ain’t I the Hitler here, huh?

Clearly, she’s no exception. Lost of these progressive Westerners live in some sort of New Age hippy cultural relativist cloud cuckoo land. They really think, that all peoples are interchangeable subjects and cultures a matter of taste or trend — Sharia’s hot this week! Next week: Pimp&Ho Harlem style!

In their reasoning, there wouldn’t be much of a difference, if we’d put all Nigerians in Germany and al Germans in Nigeria. We’re all people right..? So what does it matter, who we are.

In some sense, idiots like that are truly unfit for survival in this ever more barbarous world. If they do not learn to toughen up, they will suffer. Maybe they uncousciously lust for some sort of serfdom, to fill the vacuum of their post-Christian slave morality. Well, in this new third world order of Mexamerica and Eurabia, they will surely get their fills. Not me though, because I’m not a slave. I’d rather go down with Europe.

I wouldn’t have it any other way.
48 Comment by DAVEK on 1 September 2007:

Well Steve, you would frag any “idiot” that said “on line for culture.” Speaking as a career Army officer, I understand the fact that, as a practical matter, men don’t fight for ideals, but for his buddy in the foxhole and his own skin. The animal fight or flight response is basic to us all and what pulls us through when we are crap in our pants scared. But what do we say when the wolf is not at your throat, but only approaching the door? Is your enemy only your enemy when his knife is at your throat? Or is he equally your enemy when he undermines “peaceably” your will to fight, so that when the fight comes, you respond half heartedly or not at all. As the corrupt French did in 1940? Or as the US did after mauling the communists after TET. The Vietnamese won precisely because their spirit was superior to ours. They retained faith in their culture, we rejected ours. And the simple minded fools of today who believe that it is sufficient to rely on the fight or flight response for our nation to overcome the enemy will find that the people that have no faith in their culture will not bother fighting in the first place. The Frankfort school geniuses understand that by destroying a nation’s culture and its pride in itself, the fight will not even be necessary. We will be more than happy to surrender ourselves in reparation for the sins of western civilization or of being an American. In another couple of generations would it be so unbelievable that the self loathing, brainwashed products of the modern politically correct education system would BEG the Hispanic squatters in Greater Mejico (formerly the American Southwest) to take that part of the country back as compensation for our unlawful seizure and occupation of in after the Mexican War? Study a bit about 4th generation warfare Steve, before making assinine comments.
49 Comment by Frank on 1 September 2007:

Mr. Wheeler,

I don’t think it’s right for a Christian man to wish for such a thing.

Even from a realpolitik view, would Muslim attacks necessarily lead to the results you wish for? In Europe they seem to have led to a reaction against all religion. In America they’ve led to a reduction in liberties and an increase in foreign entanglements. Additionally, after 9/11 Americans became more unified, not as whites but as subjects to a common government. Civic nationalism and not the white nationalism you wish for was the result.

The problems with immigration already exist. Part of the solution is for bloggers to get the word out about those existing problems and about the potential future problems.

A major problem seems to be the mainstream media which seems to be able to spin most any event in its favour.
50 Comment by alejo on 1 September 2007:

Only a change in the declining and corrupt political system can stop the third world destruction of the united states. If it means a Franco or a Pinochet, so be it. The constitution is not a suicide pact and if it turns out to be , get rid of it. Call it fascism or whatever you want, the American majority should never surrender to a horde of third world Marxist scum. The media should be nationalized as Putin has done in Russia and universities need to be purged of Marxist professors. Preserving civilization is more important than preserving Mobocarcy or the rule shysters.
51 Comment by alejo on 1 September 2007:

Only a change in the declining and corrupt political system can stop the third world destruction of the united states. If it means a Franco or a Pinochet, so be it. The constitution is not a suicide pact and if it turns out to be , get rid of it. Call it fascism or whatever you want, the American majority should never surrender to a horde of third world Marxist scum. The media should be nationalized as Putin has done in Russia and universities need to be purged of Marxist professors. Preserving civilization is more important than preserving Mobocarcy or the rule of shysters.
52 Comment by Steve Berg on 1 September 2007:

DaveK, if you are going to accuse me of making asinine comments, I humbly request that you single out which of them is such. I sir, was a mere draftee. As such, I had two sets of enemies, the career officers and the North Vietnamese. The former would largely view my demise, and those of my fellows as a mere speed bump on their way to promotion, and the latter as an obstacle to the conquest of their southern brethren. Perhaps you could explain how fighting in Viet Nam in any way secured the survival of Western Culture? I viewed my main priority to be getting as many of my fellows back home alive and intact as possible, and took considerable risks to myself in order to achieve this to the best of my abilities. Considering that the unit where I spent most of my tour was largely made up of misfits that were kicked out of other outfits, we did a very good job of surviving and even managed to achieve our military objectives in unconventional but effective ways. I am quite aware of 4th generation warfare and see how effective it is against our current technologically advanced military forces. William S. Lind has done some excellent work in this area and I have read as much of it as I could. Those here at the Rockford Institute who know me well, are aware that I am fighting against the Frankfort School as effectively as I can on the front lines in a university setting. Our defeat at the hands of the Vietnamese Communists, to my mind occurred because we had no clear cut idea of what constituted victory. I see a similar difficulty in the current culture war here in the States. What constitutes cultural victory? What are the essential aspects of culture are we defending? How do we know if we have won? The Right is scattered and on the defensive. One of the main reasons I am in this group is that it is one of the few who has a good idea of what we need to conserve and what it takes to fight for it effectively. Sweeping our foes into the sea is unlikely, but we advance by the conversion of one person at a time and the Rockford Institute and Chronicles Magazine are the most effective instruments we have in this struggle.
53 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 1 September 2007:

Alejo, please do not wish a dictator on us.

Though both Franco and Pinochet were better than their opposition, the US will not be saved by any form of dictatorship. We need more liberties not less–specifically the right to discriminate, to “hate speech”, and to constitutional rights to control our naturalization and immigration policy.
54 Comment by Clyde Wilson on 2 September 2007:

Is there any other example to be found in all human history of a people deliberately destroying themselves as Americans are doing?
55 Comment by Brian Wheeler on 2 September 2007:

Frank

I understand your point. But, if you can, try seeing the situation from my point of view-for at least a few minutes.

THEY are attempting to kill my brother. THEY are getting away with this because of a lack of solidarity among White Americans.

The same White Americans who are indifferent to the destruction of thousands of other White Americans at the hands of the ENEMY also expect me and brother to offer them aid if they are bleeding in the street after they have been hit by a car.

I will think twice about being a good Samaratan.

I blame it on a “individualistic, I’ve got mine FU” morality. I’m not advoating a North Korean/ THE BORG type of culure. But it is possible to go to the extreme in the other direction.

Professor Wilson

Do you have the stomach to do an autopsy at this point in time?
56 Comment by Sid Cundiff on 2 September 2007:

A name for “Clone” himself: “Robert Welch III”. My argument: As Jr. made anti-anti-Communism respectable by absurd slur, so “Clone” makes anti-anti-Neocon-ism. Thus “Clone in fact may be a Neocon himself, in which case let us take two pages from Melville and call “Clone” “Francis X. Goodman”; yourselves, don’t be Captain Delano.

On topic, America has always been made up of very, very different ethnic groups, markedly so from the 17th Century onwards. From the start the question has been “what binds us”. Lincoln’s answer: the force of arms. We need to find something better, and something better than the Know-Nothing’s and the Immigration Restriction League’s. I remind those in the know that John Winthrop, Governor Berkeley, Ben Franklin, the authors of the Indian Removal Bill and the Chinese Exclusion Act, and the 19th Century American Party – albeit it for different reasons – would gladly have kept ALL of the posters here out.

If I have a problem at all with our current new-comers, it is their ignorance of our tradition of civil rights, and their familiarity instead with corrupt or despotic regimes, mostly Brown. That ignorance, and the wish for such a regimes, isn’t confined to them.
57 Comment by JS on 2 September 2007:

Just to remind you gentlemen, there’s a demographic (you may need an electron microscope to perceive it) from among the Muslim crowd that is racially white (European), and would rather immigrate to the US, convert to Christianity, and feel “racially repatriated” (race and racial genetic profile, if the concept has any meaning, implies one can only truly intellectually and spiritualy resonate with co-racialists, not co-religionists) and fade into the woodwork of the White Nation of America (a place where whites have created a united European civilization long before the demented EU ideal) to experience his “MLK moment.”

Unfortunately, the more America becomes the hell-hole Mr. Trifkovic is warning about above, the further and further that plan recedes into the horizon, and that “final hope” becomes no more than a tragic fantasy for that handful of people. That’s because an America with a tangible (worse, significant) Islamic constituency is not a place where the above scenario can take place for them.
58 Comment by DAVEK on 2 September 2007:

Steve

I took issue with your comment that you would frag anyone that called you to the line to fight for culture, as if it were a thing not worthy of defense. Ultimately, it is the only reason to join the fight at all. If a cause does not further our cultural values, it is not worth fighting for. We can debate whether we had any business at all in Vietnam. Perhaps the best that can be said of the outcome of that war was that Thailand DID NOT fall. Did the Vietnam fight so occupy the communists in that region that Thailand had sufficient time to develop and stabilize? Perhaps. And look where Vietnam is today. Quickly on the road to capitalism. Not that capitalism is itself the benchmark of virtue. We are capitalist and quite depraved.

Which brings us back to culture. And I see from your response that you indeed understand and are deeply involved with the kultur kampf. I should have known that, else you would not have been at this blog. Therefore, I retract and apologize for any asinine comment that I made.

How do you know what defines a culture and what aspects of it are worth defending and promoting? How do you know when you win? Very tough questions indeed. In the nations early years, we seemed to know instinctively what we were all about. We advanced by sword and technology and took by force of arms and will from uncivilized peoples that which they were incapable of using for themselves. I always laugh at the crowd that claims America was an isolationist country that had no interest in empire building. My God, why bother traveling halfway around the world by leakey boat to seize land from savages or the technologically backward when we had all that next to the 13 colonies? An empire is no less an empire you don’t need a boat to get there!

Perhaps that is one of the hall marks of a worthy culture…even the most crucial hallmark. Does it enable and stimulate its adherents to advance politically, intellectually, technologically, scientifically, medically, economically, militarily over other peoples. Look at the Muslim culture. Its “Golden Age” is essentially a myth perpetuated by Islamic apologists and boot licks. The Muslim culture is largely responsible for utter lack of advancement in most areas of endeavor among those people…oil revenue and Pakistan’s nuc not withstanding. I have some Arab Coptic friends who are the first to state that Arab culture is gutter culture. Take Black Africa, another cultural wasteland of pathetic losers. Another blogger responding to this article comments that we are inviting Mexicans and other brown types into this country and along with them their culture of corrupt government and corrupt societal norms. We will turn large parts of this country into 3rd world enclaves. Have you read any of Samuel Huntington’s work on how defective 3rd world cultures brought over borders by illegal immigrants will lead to lawless statelessness? It’s happening on our borders as we speak. And let’s not forget our home grown malignant “hip hop” culture which more and more defines white youth as well as black Of course Asians are overtaking Negro and white and Hispanic wanna-be Negros in school. They deserve to if their cultural integrity enables them to fight off diseased cultures and inspires them to advancement. If I had a child, better that he or she act Asian than Negro or Hispanic or, increasingly sad to say, even white.
59 Comment by Brian Wheeler on 2 September 2007:

However, as bad as things may seem, I believe very strongly that there is enomeous rage and anger towards asians that is just below the surface in White America. It was unleashed very briefly on 9/11 and lasted several weeks. Asian “America” was holding its collective breath.

Asian “America” won’t be so lucky the next time.
60 Comment by Brian Wheeler on 2 September 2007:

The Chinese exclusion was a great benefit to White Americans in the 19th century. WE can thank an Irish immigrant for its passage.

There is now a defacto Euro-American ExclusionA ct in areas of America where the Chinese are a majority.

I don’t buy the “argument” that since America had European diversity in the past, current day Euro-Americans must tolerate its complete economic and racial dispossession at the hands of asians,muslims,carribeans and hispanics.

Sid Coniff is not really putting forth an argument. He is just wants to race replace Euro-Amreicans with post-1965 asians,muslims,hispanics,carribeans and muslims. It’s a genocidal mindset.
61 Comment by Brian Wheeler on 2 September 2007:

DaveK

Nothing good came out the Vietnam war for ordinary Vietnamese,Thai and White Americans.

Vietnam was destroyed. Three million dead Vietnamese; 1-2 million Cambodians;60 thousand dead Amrerican mostly White teenagers. Thailand open for business for European and Americans pedaphiles.

Vietnam was never a threat to America. The Bush Royal family understood this obvious fact. That’s why they kept degenerate homosexual and future war criminal George W out of harms way during the Vietnam war.

Wiliam F Buckley understood this obvious fact also. That’s why he Kept his son out of the Vietnam war with the fake asthma excuse. Dick Cheney also understood the obvious fact that Vietnam was never a threat to America. He used the ” I had other priorities” excuse.

It is interesting to note that the cockroaches who are the most belligerent on invasion and mass murder in foriegn nations are the most fanatically open borders.

The millions of Chinese and Hindus living in China and India are not interchangeable with the majority White American population.

The thousands of Chinese and Hindus now occupying Silicon valley are not interchangeable with the thousands of White Americans who were driven out of Silicon Valley and other parts of Silicon.

Yosemite and Yellowstone do not belong to the “American ” born cockroaches of post-1965 Asian LEGAL IMMIGRANTS

No-Knothing party Si!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
62 Comment by DAVEK on 2 September 2007:

Brian

Agreed, with what you say about Thailand. Which is why I say capitalism is not the ultimate measure of healthy culture. We are capitalist but are increasingly degenerate. But “white european” is also not the ultimate measure of healthy culture. The white euro-american culture of today’s youth appears anxious to mimic and adopt the dregs of our subculture. In a couple of generations, much of what remains of white-american culture will be an embassasssment and scourge to decnt, acheivment oriented people oriented people of any color. Speak of teh white euro-american culture to 1950 or so, and I’d agree with you. I’m only happy that my father, a member of teh “greatest generation” died before he saw the extent of our degradation. Perhaps I will die still recognizing to some extent the America for which I wear the uniform.

Imm

u seem to be obsessed
63 Comment by DAVEK on 2 September 2007:

Brian

Agreed, with what you say about Thailand. Which is why I say capitalism is not the ultimate measure of healthy culture. We are capitalist but are increasingly degenerate. But “white European” is also not the ultimate measure of healthy culture. The white euro-american culture of today’s youth appears anxious to mimic and adopt the dregs of our subculture. In a couple of generations, much of what remains of white-american culture will be an embarrassment and scourge to decent, achievement oriented people oriented people of any color. Speak of the white euro-american culture to 1950 or so, and I’d agree with you. I’m only happy that my father, a member of the “greatest generation” died before he saw the extent of our degradation. Perhaps I will die still recognizing to some extent the America for which I wear the uniform.

Immigrants here for the right reasons area wonderful thing. That is why immigration MUST be made a difficult thing. Nothing easily gained is cherished. I want them to be here because they want to be AMERICANS. I want them to know hardship and strife to get here and stay here. Then and only then will they have proven their motives and worth of being here. The insanity of our government taking pains to accommodate their transition here is beyond reason. We give them every incentive NOT TO ASSSIMILATE. And now we hire teachers from Mexico to teach in the Dallas public schools! Teachers educated in their Marxist inspired universities and inspired by dreams of La Reconquista. And they bring their agenda here to indoctrinate illegals who have no love for or loyalty to this country and in fact have a culturally nurtured hate and disrespect for the Gringo nation. Madness, utter madness. Lincoln said that this country will not fall except by national suicide. Lincoln was right! And only a mere 160 years ago. The life span of two octogenarians!

The old saying is correct…you can’t rape the willing. Our leaders are whores!
64 Comment by Brian Wheeler on 2 September 2007:

Davek

Our Enemy is obssessed with killing our people off off. To prevent this from happenning, We must be obssessed with preventing this from happennig……. by many orders of magnitude greater than their obssession to kill our families, OUR PEOPLE OFF.
65 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 2 September 2007:

Okay, I must have missed something, and now we have an enemy that wants to kill us off.

Mild exaggeration? Foreigners want to live here–most don’t care what happens to the natives and the natives have paralyzing white guilt and the political elite don’t care about either so long as they have power. Do we have some powerful capital “Enemy” or are we just suffering under these factors?

Maybe the result the same, but let’s not exaggerate or become overly paranoid.
66 Comment by DAVEK on 2 September 2007:

Jeff

Discussing a particular enemy is utterly irrelevant. Conflict is an inescapable part of the human condition. so there is always an “enemy” whomever or whatever it may be. Avoid entangling alliances is as good advice today as it was in Washington’s time. The ultimate “enemy” of course is those among us who advocate introducing cultural characteristics that impede advancement as a nation, and their allies who sit passively by and allow it to occur. There is nothing quite so repulsive to me as a person or nation that that has the power to act in its own defense, but not the will. The left are the ultimate sado-masochists.
67 Comment by Jimmy on 2 September 2007:

I have to dissent from the people here, who think of fascism as some sort of answer to our demise as peoples and our culture.

I think fascism, communism, socialism and all these other isms — these dreaded ghosts from our past, which robbed Europe of its grandeur — are at the root cause of the progress of the Leftist movement in the 60s and 70s. Their antifascism was turned into some sort of antiwesternism or anti-etnocentrism. And although tragic in consequence for us now, I think the post-war West had some soulsearching to do.

There was no defense mechanism in Western/ European culture to withstand the totalitarian threat. We may have been more proud, religious and morally decent peoples back then, but we were no angels either. So people embraced radical antifascism, under the pretense of ‘no more Auschwitz’. Everything Rightist was forbidden, bad, dangerous, yuk.

This anti-fascist attitude resulted in some sort monomanic antiwesternism. It was imposed on all of us by the Left. Why? Because they get votes for it. Thanks to these Frankfurt Schoolboys, they eroded our culture, while staying in power.

The most insane suicidal policies, which no other people or culture would ever tolerate or accept were installed and remain unquestioned to this day. Do you honestly think, that a country like Pakistan would admit millions of Africans, without a whiff of a protest? What about China, do you think they would allow a massive influx of cheap labour latino’s? Do you think Paki’s and Chinese would also celebrate this so-called diversity and even subsidize it. Ha! The naitivity is almost hysterical.

No they wouldn’t. Why? Because they want to remain in control of their own future — Which people in their right mind wouldn’t want that, duh! We decided to outsource it instead and now we’re being colonized. Now we’re becoming minorities and these idiots think that it won’t make a difference, because we’re all people right. Above that, we got democracy. Yeh! Why worry? So there we are. Our cultures eroding, our peoples dying and our souvereignity gone.

We’ll be okay though. Because someday, the decline will stop and we will rediscover what made us great.
68 Comment by Bill Gardner on 2 September 2007:

I’ll say something serious. I love what vets like Dave K and Steve Berg say and know. And, of course, besides loving one’s own people and of course also (whether you know it or not) one’s landscape… & culture. If losing badly within said culture, which has somehow permitted as Dave points out the atrophy of self-respect and thus the willingness to respond, vis a vis an otherwise unmovealbe and set backbone, to the subtle and pernicious undermining of one’s own [everything] … Then it should be obvious that there are cracks in one’s own culture, no matter how dear-seeming, which must be filled in and smoothed over. … This is what Lincoln should have meant by a house divided cannot stand. “If you love blindly a culture that you can’t sustain. Rather then, love what you see more…Like your own people and the landscape more, than the culture itself that is undermining your very existence. For if you cannot love what you see, how can you love what you do not see.” … This does not result in the loss of spirit, which has been lost so far, anyway. For the spirit also resides as one poet put in the sky above, in the tall grass and the ones you love.

You do not realize as Mr. Moses does or to the extent that he does, that the [cultural] problem began with the founding of america…which perceived itself as a [secular] replacement for christianity. This is when the inevitable cracks began and grew. If you do not know your limitations you have one more. You CANNOT sustain an alleged ‘value’ of freedom of religion, IF it means more than the freedom of all christian religions and sects in the same country or nation, if you are to love yourselves and be a single people. Judaism knows this and turns it as it has profoundly and overwhelmingly to its own account. Islam knows this, and is looking today for (and finding) too by hook or by crook its own inroads herein. Both traditions or religions see ironically their own opportunity, as a result of Christian hubris and worse EGOISM not even egotism but (egoism.) The belief [whether it is with or without cultural (religious) basis,] or basis in reality, that god is on the side always of christians…and so all will be well, ‘as if’ there are no other legitimate perspectives or points of view remaining. They know this about you, as your cultural achilles heel, and LOVE to make you pay in your own land, or what once was, saying to you, we don’t exist-?- we OWN you.

I say to my christian friends, and I count myself as one of them, the cultural weakness you may not be able to survive may go even deeper than not realizing you cannot sustain the value of freedom of religion if it means more than the christian religions and sects…Yes – but it may ALSO go deeper to the james vs. paul paradigm. Paul says (essentially, thru Jesus Christ) I’ll lead with my chin… James says get real…all we really are or should be is judaism with a peace driven saviour Jesus Christ, rather than a conquest driven saviour like the one that failed recently and miserably, Bar-Kokhba. Keep everything in Judaism as it is and admit non-Jew converts through the salvation of Jesus Christ, and that’s it. Jesus has not only redeemed us from being conquest driven but also of course from the impossibility of living up to our own laws and so pleasing the transcendant God. Now He has come down to earth himself and redeemed us as well, as Jesus Christ. Amen. (Enough is enough.)

This would have and still can make Christianity much denser and crammed packed with cultural instruction that is not porous and is not unnecessarily maleable which is what judaism provides, while at the same time saving judaism from its own myopia and continued, and unnecessary wiring culturally, for conquest. Jews can’t sustain, either, pulling the sly trick of continuing to see themselves as a blood-group for all intents and purposes while at the same time preaching internationalism ‘as if’ they only wanted to ‘blend in’ too, and not merely CONQUER. This continuing mistake is not only going to rear Up and bite them in the butt it is going to bite them in half if it persists as is.

For conquest is what they have done and will continue to do [to you, whoever 'you' may be at the time.] And they don’t yet know that it is at their own profound liability and loss in the near future, just like it was in the time of belief in Bar-Kokhba.

But your OWN, my dear christians, cultural flaws (love your culture but all things from time to time need repair), unless you patch it up will only make this a perennial affair… and your so-called judaic and islamic enemies really only fill in the gaps, [to your disadvantage], of where you Yet are Not. Don’t just hate or kill them per se…as in some crusade…Repair if possible, as first choice.

It may even be true and/or actual that going in the Pauline direction rather than the Jamesian direction up until now, was for reasons we’ll never know for sure, the better way to go at the time.

The point is we are on a TIME-space continuum, and so MUST respect that too, lest we be EOISTIC and think even with regard to that reality, we alone are all that exists… And so instead, we must adapt [culturally] to become within the CONTEXT of our OWN culture more appropriate to ourselves and our reality and thus more appropriate to others as well.

That’s reality, which ain’t so bad.

Will the powers that be try to stop you from this, of course – be they jews or moslems or pseudo-christians or heathens they are still ONLY (whether you realize or accept it or not) about conquest.
_______________________________
69 Comment by DAVEK on 2 September 2007:

Bill

Masterful commentary. You get what I was driving at precisely. No static point in time or in cultural development should be consecrated. At any given moment, what promotes cultural advancement should be retained, what retards it should be rejected, what is flawed should be repaired if possible.

Your are also correct about our founding fathers. The misleading talking head “conservative” “Hannitized” pundits are always babbling about the Christian nature of our founders. Many were, but many, even most at the top, were secular philosopher, Masonic types. Thank God in the early days of the country, the PEOPLE were not intellectual pantywaists a la Jefferson (who had not the balls to fight, but would gladly send YOUR son to battle), but were actually god fearing and unashamed Christians with no qualms about identifying this as A CHRISTAIN NATION, diversity be dammed. If others wanted to live here, so be it, but they had dammed well better get used to living in a CHRISTAIN environment. And now we use tax dollars to build Sharia School in New Yorkabad. Poor dumb bastards!!!
70 Comment by Sid Cundiff on 2 September 2007:

That this inferiority [of the Anglo-Saxon] is real must be obvious to any impartial observer. Whenever the Anglo-Saxon [...] comes into sharp conflict with men of other stocks, he tends to be worsted, or, at best, to be forced back upon extraneous and irrelevant aids to assist him in the struggle. Here in the United States his defeat is so palpable [...]. To call the roll of Americans eminent in almost any field of human endeavor above the elemental is to call a list of strange and outlandish names [...]. Once his [the Anglo-Saxon’s] predominance everywhere was actual and undisputed; today, even where he remains superior numerically, it is largely sentimental and illusory.
[...]
The fact they [immigrants] increase is the best hope of civilization in America [...]In opposing the process [...] the prophets of Anglo-Saxon purity and tradition only make themselves ridiculous.
– H. L. Mencken, “The Anglo-Saxon”, _The Vintage Mencken, Alistair Cooke, ed. (1950)

Dr. Wilson is correct that American culture is being destroyed.

Let it be. Turnus should yield to Aeneas.

Mencken began his essay by lamenting the inadequacy of the term “Anglo-Saxon”, as is now “WASP”. And since Mencken’s day American Anglo-Saxon culture has totally absorbed the American versions of German, Scandinavian, Irish, and Dutch cultures to the degree that they are, for practical purposes, indistinguishable from it. The Scots and the First “Blacks” were absorbed long ago. So I include all these groups as part of Anglo-Saxondom, and I keep the word for its utility.

Mencken reckoned in his day that the percentage of names eminent in any field of American endeavor who were not Anglo-Saxon to be half. Today, in the sense that I use the word, I would submit it is 95%, save for the post-Mencken Southern Renaissance in letters, a renaissance now dying. And go to most Catholic churches in America for Mass, and you’ll find the liturgy at best seems Low Church Anglican, and more likely English Dissenter. Indeed Authentic Catholicism in the American Southwest has disappeared altogether – save among the very newcomers some would wish to keep out. Churches with Polish, Italians, and Hispanic pastors largely are spared this; those with Irish, German, or homosexual – the majority – are usually less fortunate.

I part with Mencken also in his condemnation of the more ancient Anglo-Saxon culture. In fact, it once had much to commend it, at least before 1828 in America. Even in Britain, its good qualities died with the Boer War and end of Lord Salisbury’s premiership. Only in the Irish Renaissance’s command of poetry does it survive at all. The subsequent inferiority of this culture is evident to the Anglo-Saxon himself; the vehemence of his nativist frenzy and general obloquy to newcomers, Jews, Asians, and “Blacks” (the last actually his own culture with a different color) is just a psychological device to repress his sense of this inferiority. This inferiority of the Anglo-Saxon is fourfold, most observed by Mencken:

i. He is curiously unable to do anything well, be it to cook a meal, split an atom, or craft an argument. When he is bettered in argument, the usual outcome, he can only bawl, or, buffoon as he is, quip a slapstick rejoinder to distract his audience from his opponent’s sure victory. Ask him to compose in sonata-allegro form or negotiate a treaty, expect at best 5th rate.

ii. He lacks utterly education, __ Bildung_, refinement, culture in its Arnoldian meaning, book-learning, and curiosity about ideas, his own past, other countries, or novelty. In fact, since Mencken’s day, indeed in the last 40 years, he has descended into illiteracy, be it cultural, functional, or literal. To make an illusion to Melville, Captain Delano, or even Robert Welch – once known to anyone who read a newspaper –; to use an ablative absolute or a vocabulary larger than a 5 year old’s – all is to invite from the contemporary Anglo-Saxon blank stares; only upon the cleverer of his breed does it then dawn that he’s met his intellectual match. Go to an Anglo-Saxon restaurant, and expect tasteless mush. Serve him lobster thermidor or Italian Primitivo wine, and you throw the proverbial pearls before swine. When high culture doesn’t actually frighten him, then he emphatically boasts of his low culture – and eagerly displays it.

iii. His cowardice, his pusillanimity. Mencken demonstrated in his essay that the Anglo-Saxon is a poltroon. Even my Scots-Irish tribesman, after coming to this country, never dared to pick on someone his own size.

iv. His utterly and exclusively emotional approach to any situation, and his lack of intellect. And that emotion, when not kitsch and maudlin, usually is one of shear terror and stark fear. Even as a soldier he has to be put under officers of a different culture, men of arctic cool under fire, and thus able to think quickly and perspicaciously: first the Virginia Cavaliers, latter un-absorbed Germans, Pershing, Eisenhower, and Schwarzkopf by name.

There is hope. Mencken was determinist in his Social Darwinism. But in fact one can change one’s culture and religion, preferably for the better. The Anglo-Saxon is well advised so to change his. Mine I changed 40 years ago. Some of my Southern brethren wish to resurrect the good aspects of ancient Anglo-Saxon culture; their effort is praiseworthy, and I wish them well. Perhaps the only truly great gift of the Anglo-Saxon world has been adopted by two Supreme Court Justices with Italian names: civil liberty and civil rights, as old as Magna Charta, the knowledge and desire for which now dead among the Anglo-Saxons themselves.

To change his culture might be a necessity, if the Anglo-Saxon is to prosper. Watch “Closing Bell” on CNBC this Tuesday from 3pm to 5, and count the number of Anglo-Saxon-Celtics: one hand will be all you need. The parents of these non-Anglo-Saxons, to use today’s Gospel, sat in the lowest seat at the table. They soon outperformed the Anglo-Saxon. It wasn’t hard to do.

The alternative to changing his culture is where the Anglo-Saxon, regardless of his race or national origin, is likely otherwise to end his days: the public housing project and the trailer park.

So hope can build on necessity. I can start by reading this Mencken essay.
71 Comment by DAVEK on 2 September 2007:

And to all, a thought and question. When does adherence to self destructive national laws and policies cross the line from being laudable law abiding behavior to culpable active complicity in National suicide/murder? As an active duty Soldier, I struggle with this issue. Upholding a government which rapes the Constitution I am honor sworn to defend. Perhaps this is why I have a real affection for Robert E. Lee and an understanding and appreciation for the Southern cause. It never was about the manufactured slavery holey cause issue manufactured by the northern religious fanatics, but about constitutional fidelity.
72 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 2 September 2007:

Davek, fair enough.

Jimmy, exactly!
73 Comment by DAVEK on 2 September 2007:

Sid

Well said, well said. But to say it with a cooks analogy (obviously my ancestry is NOT from the culinary barbarian Anglo-Saxons but Polish/Slavic from the turn of the century) let’s just say that immigrants to a culture are as leven to the dough. It’s just a matter of using QUALITY yeast in the CORRECT AMOUNT. Obviously, the culinarily inept Anglo-Saxon in the White House needs a cooking lesson before we all choke on his Globalony sandwich.
74 Comment by robert m. peters on 2 September 2007:

Davek,

A soldier takes an oath to defend the Constitution; he is not to obey an immoral or an unlawful (unconstitutional) order. One must remember that the Constitution is primarily a political and historical document and not a legal document left solely to the interpretation of elites – judges and lawyers. Having said that, it takes great courage to disobey an immoral and/or unlawful order; it can cost one one’s life, one’s liberty and/or one’s property, including one’s good name. One wishes that more men in uniform had the audacious courage to disobey immoral and unlawful orders, but unless one is in that position, one is hard put to pass judgment because many of us in fear fail to speak up against immoral and unlawful acts where there is much less to lose.

Sophi Scholl’s prayer from prison during her last six days on Earth was that her betrothed, serving Hitler on the Eastern Front, would not only survive the war physically but that he would not return a “creature of war.” This is my prayer for our soldiers whom we have allowed the empire to send to kill and be killed, to maim and be maimed, to destroy and be destroyed.

You were right to have looked at Robert E. Lee. Lee was the living example of a man who was a yoke-fellow with the Christ – a meek man as the Sermon on the Mount describes meekness which is a condition in which a man of physical prowess, mental aggressiveness, intellectual sharpness, and audacious courage places himself so that all of those attributes are tamed, trained and targeted by the Christ unto His ends. This was Lee’s “secret”: in the midst of war even as he sent men to kill and be killed, there was that mercy about him as proclaimed in the Sermon on the Mount; there was that peace about him as proclaimed in the Sermon on the Mount. Lee understood the need to fight a just war but fight it hard and well and to fight a lawful war with audacity and courage.

Lee is no longer the model for the American military. Sherman is the model, the very antithesis of Lee. There is little wonder that every attempt is being made to deconstruct and airbush Lee from our history, for he stands as a standard which casts a withering judgment against the current crop of barbarians who are setting the agenda and carrying it out.
75 Comment by Nicholas G.P. MOSES on 2 September 2007:

“You do not realize as Mr. Moses does or to the extent that he does, that the [cultural] problem began with the founding of america…which perceived itself as a [secular] replacement for christianity.”

It began there… and the destruction is now almost complete. When discussing America there was a time when I tried to defend her virtues and greatnesses in the face of many shortcomings and sins. These days I have run dry of defenses, and of the will to defend anything culturally about this country. A little over a month ago I had a lengthy discussion with an Irish banker who emigrated here about forty years ago and found myself and my honest–if imprudent and hasty–reaction to the statement, “This is a good country; I like it; I just don’t agree with its foreign policy right now” was, “I *don’t* like it.” My reasoning was, in a nutshell, that Americans had no sense of history and were thus incapable of defending anything great that they may at one time have had.

Frankly, they do not. American culture today IS MTV, the Pepsi Generation, sprawling exurbs of McMansions, and Hollywood, no matter how much we may wish it otherwise. The fact that it is so widely perceived as such just reinforces that.

As for dictators and culture, yes, they censored artists and writers (largely communists whose pens all spilt the same message, only in different colors), but they did not wipe out the true indigenous folk culture, which as we discussed on another thread is the basis for any real high culture. The state of the “high arts” on both sides of the Atlantic is a sad commentary on the effectiveness of “liberal democracy” in destroying folk culture.
76 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 2 September 2007:

“let’s just say that immigrants to a culture are as leven to the dough. It’s just a matter of using QUALITY yeast in the CORRECT AMOUNT.”

I think this is the most important point.

I, for one, wish to keep Brimelow and Taki, not to mention my throughly American wife who happens to be of Asian extraction, and whom I would say is a better example of Western culture than most European Americans.
77 Comment by Jimmy on 2 September 2007:

@Jeff

Right on, it’s about Western culture and the preservation of culture. As long as people go along with that, I have no problem with some sort of immigration. It’s our way of life we must defend. Is that too much to ask? To preserve a worthwile, Western country with a predominant white constituency.

The level of the mass immigration from the third world undermines this. There is no question that most immigration laws and activists sprung from good intentions. I also dislike the fact, that regular are never asked anything. They can’t stop it, they can’t protest, they can’t speak their honest mind, they can only shut up and watch their neighbourhoods change.

Mostly, not for the good, au contraire.

I agree with people on Asian culture, I like it too. It’s got some sort of intrinsic order, focus and structure, which makes it more peaceful than contemporary fractured multicultural Western societies. More asians please!

It’s the multiculturalism I dislike. It never enriches us with smart Asian or Hindu engineers, rather the oppostie. We’re stuck with all these poor, illiterate people who have no perspective whatsoever. I can feel their pain, but come on guys, if we take in the whole world we will eventually become part of the third world.

Come to think of it, that’s exactly what’s happening.
78 Comment by DAVEK on 2 September 2007:

Jimmy

You are so on point with your comments. Consider where we will be with large influx of illiterate or semiliterate 3rd worlders who bring their culture of corrupt government (even more so than ours) and society with them. What we will have is a huge pool of unpatriotic useful idiots just waiting to be lead by the third world ideologue La Raza and CAIR types among them. We are not only importing the 5th columnist troops but their Field Marshals as well. Stop the madness.
79 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 2 September 2007:

Both Jimmy and Davek are on the point.

So,

Seal our borders, end all immigration for a few decades (or put a cap under a thousand on it) and expel or assimilate those Third Worlders already here (the choice is really theirs, you could say).

And continue to stand our ground against those hostile to our culture–whether they be Hispanic or Islamic foreigners or secular domestics.
80 Comment by Frank on 2 September 2007:

Mr. Wheeler,

tell your brother to move, to switch jobs, to do something. There’s no reason to put up with some sort of torture.

Most whites around my area of South Carolina would not tolerate what I think you’re describing. And there are plenty of jobs in North Carolina, as well as SC.

Move to where men are men And maybe talk to a minister about your anger. It’s not healthy to hate like that. Anyway, it’s none of my business; that’s all I’ll say.
81 Comment by Frank on 2 September 2007:

Well, I’ll add that I’m no civic nationalist, and I’m willing to face the reality that at best an immigrant is as good as a native, that is if he looks like the natives, is fully accepted as native, and fully adopts and identifies with the native culture. That is, if the immigrant does or his progeny. Though they may well remember their origins and develop foreign attachments.

The death of the West can only be prevented if Westerners are willing to once again love their nation. Hatred of foreigners isn’t needed. Though it seems far easier to build a movement against something than for something, such a movement can be easily misdirected. Also of course, it’s not Christian to hate. Additionally, it is more right wing, more aristocratic, to pursue an ideal rather than to destroy a common enemy. Within a true right wing movement would be those who fit varying degrees of the ideal. To embrace acceptance and reject such a hierarchy is leftist and, ah, spiritually destructive.

We need a Western movement of love (of Western ethnicity, including culture) to save our Southern and American nations and their Western civilisation.

Civic nationalism is the nationalism of Western suicide.
82 Comment by Brian Wheeler on 2 September 2007:

Jimmy

You are quite a despicable character if you want to replace White American Engineers with asian and hindu legal immigrants.

What you are advocating is the destruction of a Native Born White American Tech and medical workforce. What a cockroach you are. Anyone advocating this has genocidal intetnions towards the majority Euro-American population.

Mr Willoughby

It doesn’t follow from the fact that you have an apetite for asian tail, that Euro-Americans are required to commit racial suicide within the borders of the United States. You don’t really think Asian males are enthusiastic about White guys stealing their woman do you?

European Amreicans are not intechangeable with Asians. Replace European Americans with Asians and America will no longer exist. America would be relaced with China. They play Classical music in China. But we all know that China is not America.

Asian, muslim,hisapnic and african,carribean should not be shut down for a few years, it should and must be shut down indefinitely. After this expulsions. The coloniization of large tracts of American territory by Mexico,China, India,pakistan and Iran is not acceptable. Bring back the goddam Chinese Exclusion Act.

Euro-Americans are voting against this with their feet.

America is not an idea nation. America is rooted in a blood connection to the land just as China and India are. Replace a people with a different group of people…one nation dies another is created. Race has everything to do with this.
83 Comment by Nicholas G.P. MOSES on 2 September 2007:

“I agree with people on Asian culture, I like it too. It’s got some sort of intrinsic order, focus and structure, which makes it more peaceful than contemporary fractured multicultural Western societies.”

I don’t particularly care for Asian culture in regard to aesthetics–mostly it’s just a personal preference–but far be it from me to tell them how to live. They are distinct peoples with their own ways who often feel the same about Western culture.

As for, “More Asians, please!” I would question whether the mixing of the two cultures is productive when ours has been so degraded. There are of course examples of Asians who fully embrace the height of Western culture and civilization, but right now, Western civilization has little but history to offer.

Asiatizing America would be about as good a solution as Hispanicizing it. It would eclipse anything good there ever was and leave the descendants of its heyday stranded in a completely foreign country.
84 Comment by Frank on 2 September 2007:

They play Classical music in China. But we all know that China is not America.

I like that

I wonder if part of the problem is that for political reasons, conservative intellectuals have watered down their ideas. And the “fusion” with leftist libertarians who happened to share a common enemy resulted in our being overtaken.

That said, I’m grateful to men like Trifkovic and Fleming, as well as others though I won’t produce a long list…
85 Comment by Frank on 2 September 2007:

Mr. Moses,

are the culture and civilisation not merely produced to serve the nation, that is the actual people who take part in the civilisation, and to praise the glory of God?

Ideally the Asians would praise the Lord with their civilisation in their own way, and the Westerners would do the same in another unique fashion.

Why do so many Christian conservatives seem to wish for the continuance of their civilisation and not the people who inhabit it? It seems wrong not to love one’s people. Are we afraid of being called the r word, or is there some other deeper reason that no one ever happens to mention?
86 Comment by Steve Berg on 2 September 2007:

My own personal experience is that the culture I am willing to fight to defend is rather local. I have been thinking quite a bit for the past several years, at least since Donald Livingston’s utterly superb presentation at the Charleston JRC meeting, about the dimensions of human scale. This is why I reflect on the oration there by Aeschylus. Here is what he said was an oration at the beginning of the battle of Salamis: “O sons of Greece, go forward! Free your native soil. Free your children, your wives, the images of your fathers’ gods, and the tombs of your ancestors! Now the fight is for all that.” Notice that each reason to fight is tied to the word “your”. I posted this earlier in this thread. The reason to fight is to either rescue or preserve those things that are both dear and very personal. Mr. Moses and others in this thread have shown that the American founding was intended to be a secular replacement for Christianity. In one sense it was intended to be universal in scope. This is certainly the nationalist view. But I think it led to a misguided concentration on mammon, that is still our major enemy. Still, I think it is part of human nature to love that which is familiar to us. To counter this the corporate and governmental elites have forcibly moved as many people as possible, as often as possible via transfers and other means, in order to try to crush this natural tendency to develop and love locality. Advertising hucksters always tout the new, rather than the familiar, (which is also known to work adequately well as it stands). No fault divorce is a devastating way to try to demolish the family and replace it with serial hookups, where the people are simply interchangeable game pieces selected for short term pleasures. What we are facing is a conscious effort to destroy any meaningful human groups other than governmental or business corporate entities. So, our troops now are supposedly fighting to promote meaningless abstractions like Bushian democracy, not to defend their children, their wives and the tombs of their ancestors. In fact, our opponents are essentially fighting for the same things that Aeschylus touted in his play. I am not sure how much we can stretch our loyalties. But they are really where we have to make a start. I am not inclined to spread the net as far as something like white European Christendom. This was pretty well shattered by 1918. I think this is also where the Church has problems. Yes, it is universal, but for many years it has also had considerable local variety, even before the Reformation. Dr. Wilson has shown in other essays that we must look to the national, and not just to the local if we are going to retain what is left of our tattered civilization, but I think we need to look very carefully at how we might best operate in both the local and national areas. As Donald Livingston told us, our foes are doing their worst to saddle us with a Hobbesian world state. We need to find a way to block this without losing the rest of what little we retain. Dave K and I are largely in agreement on what we face, and these are some of the things I have been pondering and I bring them up for much needed discussion.
87 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 2 September 2007:

Wheeler, I knew someone would come about and accuse me of liking “asian tail”.

Yes, I am married to an Asian woman, but I am not a fetishist. And my wife can spell, capitalize and space her words correctly, unlike you Mr. Wheeler. Perhaps once you learn to write in English, I will take you more seriously.

And I don’t care if Asian men don’t like that I am married to one of ‘their’ woman–why should I?

I have to ask, do White nationalists like yourself really believe that being white made the West great? Not the Greco-Roman philosophical and scientific tradition, Indo-European language or Christian soul….but our skin color?

Do you really believe that white atheists and pagans are better than ‘colored’ Christians?
88 Comment by Tanstaafl on 2 September 2007:

Hey Sid,

Your Bildung-meister would be soooo disappointed. You misspelled “allusion”.

Thank you to Mr. Trifkovic for this article. I also find the comments, while generally grim, to be a source of hope. Some at least realize what is going on and have the courage to speak out. The mainstream media is full of nothing but happy talk.
89 Comment by Nicholas G.P. MOSES on 2 September 2007:

“Ideally the Asians would praise the Lord with their civilisation in their own way, and the Westerners would do the same in another unique fashion.”

Well, of course. Although, as far as I know there exists no liturgical rite in any Far Eastern language, and that may well be a failure of the Church. All the same, if individual Chinese, for whatever reason, come to prefer to worship in Latin, there is no reason why they should not be permitted to do so, provided they are willing to submit to all its particularities and regulations. (In the same way, a French Catholic wishing to worship in, say, the Armenian Rite ought to take care to observe Armenian rules on fasting and the priesthood.) I was born and raised in the U.S.A., but I prefer European culture and literature.

To Mr. Willoughby: there is nothing special about “white” racial genes PER SE, as I’m sure you agree. The equation of the white race with Western civilization is something that has evolved over the last five hundred years, and arguably it is the result of bad thinking and bad policy. Nevertheless, once bad policy becomes deeply entrenched in the functional life of a community, meddling with it becomes a potentially volatile issue. This is, for example, the reason why ending all rent control and rent stabilization in New York City tomorrow would cause an unmitigated disaster.
90 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 2 September 2007:

Moses: I’m not sure if this belief is quite comparable to a social policy. I would say it is more of a common misconception, like the belief in astrology or that the GOP is conservative. And as a false belief, it is potentially dangerous if not corrected.

And on to Wheeler again:

Do you really think that without outside immigration, Asiatic hordes will overrun the US? Do you think that those groups can out breed you so quickly?

And by the way, we white people, before our Christianization, were pagan savages, and without the blessing of a foreign, Semitic religion, we still would be.

And you really want to jump on that Romantic nationalist “Blood-and-Soil” train? Doesn’t that mean that American Indians own the whole of this continent and we have to go back to Europe?
91 Comment by JMB on 2 September 2007:

Willoughby: I must agree with your point about our culture being great for what it is and not because of the color of the people who, admittedly, nurtured it early on. It was that fusion of Greco-Roman philosophy and Christian ethics and not necessarily the color of its curators that created the Western construct. I could care less if the West consisted of blacks and Asians and whites or just whites or latinos or some mix in between if only its inhabitants lived in accordance with the maxims of that sacred Western conjunction previously alluded to. What does it matter if those who abide in such a course are white or yellow or black or brown? It really means nothing to me.

I live in Okinawa now with my wife and our unborn child. We admire so much of the Okinawan culture, but even now we observe the decadent counter-culture making inroads, whether it is the dress of some of the youth, the materialism and the seeming rejection of organized religion. I do not speak the language, nor does my wife; so, I can only speak from observation and deductive assessment based on direct, but limited personal interaction. Either religion in Japan is a very private affair or else there is no seeming religious undercurrent here. People seem to be happy secularists. Again, I am attempting to find out more and more of this as time goes by. I will say that shrines and monuments to the dead are everywhere, but they seem to be vestiges of a time gone by. Tourists and the elderly are the only frequenters.

Nevertheless, Okinawans are seemingly family oriented. I had read an article some time ago that bemoaned the declining birthrates here, but living among the Japanese and driving the streets and eating lots of sushi and nirigi, children and motherhood are alive and well here. It is a beautiful thing to see the numbers of Okinawan children walking the streets together in the morning, heading to school; there is a location where mothers gather to see their children board a school bus that reminds me somewhat of my experience as an elementary school student in surburban Dallas 20 years ago. That was a time–at least in my tiny corner of the U.S.–where community still held sway. It is all suggestive of the Japanese/Okinawan culture’s superiority in so many ways. We’ve been at this decadent slide for a good deal longer that the Japanese, but from my perspective the Japanese “way” remains strong, despite the counter-culture’s inroads. In fact, I say we hitch our wagon to the Asian man; he seems to be the real West’s closest civilized neighbor
92 Comment by Frank on 2 September 2007:

Steve Berg,

Nation is from the latin nāscī (according to dictionary.com) which means “to be born.” The original meaning is a group related by blood; members are born into it and are not converted into it.

So

O sons of Greece, go forward! Free your native soil. Free your children, your wives, the images of your fathers’ gods, and the tombs of your ancestors! Now the fight is for all that.

sounds [ethnic] nationalist to me.

America is not a nation; it is an empire, and we are her subjects. I care not for the US government any more than it can serve those I love and know, and those Southerners I have a duty to defend.
93 Comment by Frank on 2 September 2007:

I am not sure how much we can stretch our loyalties. But they are really where we have to make a start. I am not inclined to spread the net as far as something like white European Christendom. This was pretty well shattered by 1918.

I’m uncertain as to precisely what is needed to defend America and her South, but I suspect we will end up with a defense of white European Christiandom as our American identity is shattered and we come to embrace our European identity.

I suspect the various Western cores will ally with one another to defend themselves against their common enemies. That does not mean of course that centralising and losing all of the rich local varieties would be helpful.

That said, Westerners are similar genetically, so it shouldn’t be too problematic for some intermarriage perhaps, provided those who do immigrate fully integrate. I don’t know the ideal size of a gene pool, but I do know that a great diversity of communities and nations is beautiful.
94 Comment by Jimmy on 3 September 2007:

@Mr. Brian Wheeler

You got me all wrong. Partially, because of my english writing skills, I’m not a native English speaker. I am completely on the side of native Americans, be they white or black. I think you have been wronged and I also think the immigration issue was put upon you unfairly and undemocratically.

My admiration for Asian culture never exceeds my love and admiration for Western culture, ofcourse not.

I’m on your side. However you may think.

I do not want to replace white Americans with Hindu or Chinese engineers. Quite the contrary! I would prefer the demography of your pre ‘65 America over my own country now. I just think, that as long as immigration is the status quo, a fact of life, you’re better of with high skilled immigrants, than illiterate third world refugees. Don’t you agree? Ofcourse, I would prefer no immigration and natural growth of the indigenous population. Just like any people and country would. (Just read my previous comments.)

For the record, I do not want to sound beligerrent or know-it-all. I just worry for America and Europe. Our elites have turned against us. They couldn’t care less about us and our culture. I have a lot of respect for Americans and American culture. Western American culture, that is.
95 Comment by Jimmy on 3 September 2007:

By the way, you know why immigration never stops?

Rightists always turn against each other.

The pro-immigration camp is focused, well organised and accumulates power. Stop the in-fighting or mass immigration will not stop.
96 Comment by Red on 3 September 2007:

Srdja Trifkovic…now theres a REAL American name for ya!

If Srdja Trifkovic has such a problem with non whites, maybe he should consider going BACK TO EUROPE because America has been multi-racial, multi-cultural, multi-religious, etc from DAY ONE!

SHAKES HEAD…
97 Comment by Pink on 3 September 2007:

“should consider going BACK TO EUROPE” :-!

… No, no, no, all wrong, that’s _not_ how you say it. Say: “if you don’t like it here, you go back to yer commie Soviet Russia where you came from … Dooooooog bleeeeeees Ameeeeeeeericaaaa … “
98 Comment by Brian Wheeler on 3 September 2007:

Jimmy

Ok Jimmy. By the way there are pockets of sanity in Euro-American Culture. Euro-Americans ae resisting. And the resisitance is growing stronger with each passing year. ASk anyone who has been working on immigration since 1990. It is night and day. But there still is a long way to go.

The soundtrack to Brother Who art Thou was the number CD in the nation a few years back and won best CD of the year at the Grammy Awards. White kids are starting to turn away from rap “music”.
99 Comment by Frank on 3 September 2007:

Red,

the blacks here were mostly not citizens. America was founded as a mostly Northwestern European nation. While that would exclude Trifkovic, we’d not have as much trouble absorbing him as we would nonwhites.
100 Comment by Jimmy on 3 September 2007:

What’s up with people turning against Serge?

He’s a smart experienced guy, you better listen to him. He knows what it’s like to live among rebelling Jihadists. Even if these guys form a small minority, they create tensions. Surely, there are exceptions. Indonesians and Turks, although deeply religous, are usually more tolerant and less fanatic than other muslims. (Although the fanatics among them are also outbreeding the moderates.) North Africans, Paki’s and Arabs seem all the more fanatic and less tolerant.

I’m sorry to be so ‘racist’ and islamophobic, but this is how I see the world. If I’m wrong, prove it. But show me the numbers and the examples to make your point.

Surely, you don’t have to like what Serge says here, but in that case you don’t like his message. If present things continue, white Americans wil become a minority in 35 years — and without protest, selfwillingly so. I guess in 60 years, whites and blacks will form an overall minority together . You may not WANT to care, out of fear of slander, but you simply MUST learn to care. This is not just a matter of race, it’s a matter sanity. You can’t outsource your future, you must remain in control of it. Human nature doesn’t allow you to feel otherwise. The world is a place of violence, repression and disorder, the West is (mostly, not always) the exception. An inconvenient truth.

Do you want to live like the Afrikaners in South Africa? Like the Kurds in Iran? Like the Serbs in Kosovo? Like the Hindus in Kashmir? Like the whites in Zimbabwe? Like the Kopts in Egypt? Like the gypsies in Eastern Europe? Like the Chechens in Russia?

I guess not. We’re going there anyway.

Surely, minority life could turn out good. like the jews of muslim Spain or contemporary Western expats in Singapore. Excepting maybe Western Europe and US, minority life is not so good. Although Western minority are objectively best of, they dislike their minority status the most. At least they’re the most vocal.

I wonder if the new majority would allow you to admit tens of millions of Europeans in the context of labour shortages, diversity and, well…. no good reason.
101 Comment by Red Phillips on 3 September 2007:

Red in # 96 is not Red Phillips, BTW.
102 Comment by Sid Cundiff on 3 September 2007:

re 88
“Bildungsmeister” has no hyphen.

re 92
Nationalism is a 19th Century invention, invented either by The State or fostered by it both to grant it legitimacy and to serve as one of Plato’s “noble lies” to give, deceptively, soldiers a motive to fight and die. For man might be willing to die for his god,king, country, buddy, or mother, but NO man will die for a bureaucrat, nor for a bureaucrat’s interests, nor even for his own interests (for dead men have no interests), nor, as Newman said, for the conclusion to a syllogism. Don’t fall for the illusion called “nationalism”.

You mean “tribalism”, ethnos, another disease overcome by the Greeks and their polis. And tribalism is morally equivalent to Mafia and Camorra “clanism”.
103 Comment by Brian Wheeler on 3 September 2007:

Sid Coniff

Are you in favor of post-1965 LEGAL IMMIGRATION policy which will bring about the complete economic and racial dispossession of the majority Euro-America population?

I often that in discussions and debates with lefties who give the same rap about nationlism that Sid Coniff has just given us are not really opposed to nationlaism. What they are really opposed to is a national identiy for Euro-Americans.

Several years back I attened a Noam Chomsky Lecture. Noam Chomsky was blathering on about nationalism in the exact same way as Sid Coniff. Just so happened that I had a copy of the Fatefull Triangle with me. I underlined the sections of the book where Chomsky gave his support for Palestinian nationalism. The denial of Palestinian Nationalism is the central theme of the book. Chomsky also blathered on about how Calfornia and several other American states belonged to the Nation State of Mexico. After the talk I spoke to Noam Chomsky and showed him the passage from The Fatefull Triangle where he he recognizes the legitamcy of Palestinian Nationalism. Then I ask him about his support for Mexican Nationlaism. within the borders of the United States.The “formidable” debater Noam Chomsky was speechless gave me a nasty look and wouldn’t answer my questions.

Kirkpatrick Sale is another phony anti-nationalist.

I oppose handing over any America territory to Mexico, China, India, Pakistan and Iran, something secessionist Kirlpatrick Sale would be more than happy to do. Some things are worth dying for.

Oppose the colonization of America territory by China, Mexico. Iran. India and Pakistan. This is something worth dying for.
104 Comment by Frank on 3 September 2007:

Sid, what do you think unique nongenetic traits are such as language? They’re a way for people to be tricked into thinking they’re related. You said yourself, as I recall, that you wished for Americans to be bound by a common culture. It seems quite similar, with genetics being a more honest version.

Why do American’s defend America? Some correctly fight for loved ones, but many fight and die for “their people” and “their country.”

—

The Mafia and probably Camorra (not too familiar with it) is a good analogy btw. However add a Christian touch to it, and they shouldn’t be exploiting foreigners as much.

Plato can’t deceive modern genetic testing, unless of course he is the one giving out the test results.
105 Comment by Bill Gardner on 3 September 2007:

In my post #69 above which I made seriously and sincerely I did not mean to suggest that Christianity is [not] the one true religion…or the truest as religions go. I think so. But there are other Actual perspectives too in the world, including the Christian perspective, and those simply cannot be superficially discounted ‘as if’ all christians need to do is leave it all Up to God to sort out. Those perspectives must be studied and disected as well as they exist in relation to the christian perspective. As Paul would suggest (and may have worked for a time in history) you *can’t any longer merely lead with your chin. Instead as James would suggest you are primarily founded upon the culture and laws of judaism which you must incorporate and know backwards and forwards except that now too you have been redeemed by a peace driven rather than a conquest driven messiah in Jesus-Christ. Then we would also realize and know, that we cannot love ourselves and be one people while at the same time attempting the sustain the unsustainable liberal value of freedom of religion, except in so far as by religion we mean those different sects and flavors of the christian religion. Judaism today and Islam today are conquest driven belief systems who hold the peace-driven messiah or Christ to be ‘the’ or ‘a’ remaining enemy. Yes, Christianity seeks to include all of these other belief systems and peoples but only once they are [voluntarily] christian, if that is their own choice. Otherwise what you attempt leads only to your own self-destruction in terms of ‘belief’ in that blasphemous value or other god, the open society ‘as if’ you can sustain that as well. Which do you prefer, your own people, your own landscape and your own religion, -or- the ‘value’ of freedom of religion? Which is it? ‘Either you will love the one and despise the other, or you will worship the one, or you will in fact whether you realize it or not be worshiping the other. Period.’ If you don’t like seeing the reality of that mistake in terms of it being blasphemous, it also falls naturally enough as well into the category of ‘if you don’t know your limitations, you have one more.’ Amen. If waking up to this at first causes you pain it may be the good kind, like that which is bitter to the taste but sweet in the digestion. Rather than sweet to the taste like candy but destroys rather than builds.
106 Comment by Steve Berg on 3 September 2007:

This thread has become increasingly confused, but this points to a fundamental difficulty in what we seem to be trying to do. We seek to defend something, but it is ill defined. Some have pointed out that Judaism and Islam are inherently aimed at conquest. This may be true, but the Zionists seem to be more aligned with ethnicity than with any sort of religious Judaism. As Srdja has shown in his superb writings on the subject, Islam seeks to conquer, but is also inherently chaotic and riddled with violent factions. It has also not been able to long overcome ethnic differences. Are we seeking to defend something against religious conquest or ethnic conquest? I’m not sure at this point. And, what are we defending in the first place? Some here point to what I have previously brought up and seem to think we should be transcending tribe, clan and nation. Okay, so what takes their place? I rashly discounted the defense of “culture” as a rallying point and was justly chastised by Dave K. But, if we are going to put our lives on the line defending something, we had best be able to define it at least as well as Aeschylus defines the Greek reasons for fighting the Persians. Western Christian Culture is certainly worth defending. But some here have problems even accepting a top notch Serbian immigrant as an ally. Recently, I enjoyed a homily by a Nigerian priest. As he spoke, he kept referring to how the concepts were so much more beautifully expressed in the original Latin. And, in the battles over Christian orthodoxy in the Episcopal Church, we see American parishes put themselves under the protection of African and Asian bishops and archbishops in order to defend their faith against American and British jacobins in the church hierarchy. So, what are we defending, and how do we determine who can be our allies in this worthy effort?
107 Comment by Super Dave on 3 September 2007:

Intelligence differences are very relevant to the discussion of demographic changes in the U.S., Europe and Australia. Different races create very different societies and each race’s capacity for creating and maintaining civilization directly related to intelligence quotient. I do agree that we can’t just hang our hats on intelligence and nothing more because culture also plays a part. However, race and culture are inextricably linked as each race has produced a different culture and people don’t choose a culture to practice.

Aside from that, whites are suffering from genocide through inundation via our insane open borders policy, and liberal immigration policies that favor non-white racial groups. Whites are being racially cleansed from their traditional nations and don’t seem to care much to reverse the trend since that would be tantamount to nazism. Although more and more whites are waking up, it seems many still practice the religions of multiculturalism and anti-racism. Multicult demonizes the white race while anti-racism hold that whites cannot act in their own self interest or criticize non-whites since they and they alone are responsible for the character defects of non-whites. Isn’t this a blood libel similar to what the wicked Nazis foisted upon the Jews?

There are many Jews involved in the movement to transform America into a multiracial no man’s land and marginalize white people. Author and Jewess Susan Sontag (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Sontag) charged that the white race is the cancer of human history. Jewish Professor Noel Ignatiev holds “whiteness studies” at Harvard for the express purpose of “abolishing the construct that is the white race”. Anyone know of any classes on major college campuses dedicated to abolishing the “social construct” that is the brown, black, yellow or jewish races? I didn’t think so, and somehow whites are a social construct while every other racial group is a legitimate race. For the record all 10 Jewish senators voted to grant illegal aliens amnesty. The largest Jewish organization, the ADL, supports amnesty and liberal immigration policies. The list goes ever on.

Organized Jewish groups have played a role in pushing the white man towards oblivion and their actions can only classified as a form of ethnic warfare against their gracious hosts. I recommend everyone read the articles and books by professor Kevin MacDonald for a better understanding.
108 Comment by Sid Cundiff on 3 September 2007:

#103 is spoken like Cavour, Bismarck, Clemenceau, Dishonest Abe, Eric Foner (re: Estonia), and ol’ Albert J. “The Republic Never Retreats” Beveridge. Don’t expect me to shed a tear if we hand back the entire Southwest USA west of the Rio Grande and the Continental Divide, south of he 42nd parallel north, to Mexico. The worst Gringos live there and on New England coast from Salem MA south, the former inhabited by space cadets, the latter by witch hunters, e.g. Dr. Tim (Leary) and Captain Ahab.

Purge #107 of its anti-Semite filth and it then touches on a noteworthy point, though the author doesn’t seem to know it. Re: Sontag — read her “What is Happening in American (1966)” from when the quote is taken –, Cultural Marxism is as obsessed about race as are the Browns. Indeed, I suspect they copy each other’s drivel and just change the names.

Nothing personal, Brian and Steve; it’s your ideas that I don’t like.
109 Comment by Super Dave on 3 September 2007:

Sid #108,

Your comments make absolutely no sense. If my post is just anti-semitic drivel, then post a point by point refutation of where you think I’m incorrect which I will address.
110 Comment by Brian Wheeler on 3 September 2007:

Steve Berg

Start with this:prevent the complete economic and racial dispossession of the majority Euro-American population. This requires shutting all non-white immgration to zero and2)deportation of post-1965 racial groups working to being about the complete economic and racial dispossession of the majority Euro-American population.

The Chinese and Hindus must be expelled out of Silicon Valley and other places where they have implemented a defacto Euro-American Exclusion Act.
111 Comment by Sid Cundiff on 3 September 2007:

#111 doesn’t know that I’m not talking about race but ethnos — ethnos being the product of a group’s history and habits, not “race” and genes. He should read again what I wrote: I clearly distanced myself from Social Darwinism, I praised the Anglo-Saxon of the past, I praised my fellow Southerns who wish to resurrect this laudable past, and I clearly stated that one can change one’s worse ethnos for a better one. Bad history + bad habits = bad ethnos; and vice versa.

Bigots, on the other hand, grant no quarter.
112 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 3 September 2007:

Family connections are important, cultural connections that can never (or very rarely) be forged by first generation immigrants are important, and the mean IQ of a society, being at least partially determined by race, may be important –though never as important as good values and good faith.

But this blood-and-soil nonsense is too much.

When did men become animals, of different “stocks” and “breeds” and obsessed with blood? When did conservative Christian Americans give into this infantile ethnocentrism, modeled, apparently, on the American Indian Movement and the Black Panthers.

This country was founded by Anglo-Saxons, but it was built up by Germans, Irishmen, Italians, Poles and others. Those groups came, worked, assimilated and became Americans. Anyone who tells me that my German and Irish ancestors are not “real” Americans is damned fool. And anyone who tells me that my children, of mixed race, will not be Americans is just as much a fool.
113 Comment by Jimmy on 3 September 2007:

@Sid & Jeff

I agree.

What matters is the preservation of the Western way of life.
114 Comment by CanadianObserver on 3 September 2007:

“What matters is the preservation of the Western way of life.”

When “Westerners” are in the minority that way of life ends.

“Turn the other cheek? What kind of silly concept is that? Sound’s Marxist.”

Not Marxist, but just as suicidal.

Jeff – “When did conservative Christian Americans give into this infantile ethnocentrism, modeled, apparently, on the American Indian Movement and the Black Panthers.”

They didn’t. That is the problem. They are weak, and the non-whites know it. Though I can understand why you would oppose white ethnocentrism and embrace multiculturalism: presumably your children are mixed race. Given the history of ethnic relations and tribal warfare one would have to be crazy to allow one’s fate to be decided by another group.

Ethnic nepotism has always been the norm, and as Pierre van den Berghe has demonstrated, it is ultimately genetic. An ethnic group that concludes that ethnocentrism is infantile or fascistic will simply disappear and be replaced by stronger ethnic groups that do not embrace suicidal liberalism. Unless there is reciprocity from other ethnic groups and agreement on respecting each other’s territory the group that turns the other cheek is on the way out.

“Those groups came, worked, assimilated and became Americans.”

Then why do so many of them bring up some Ellis Island ancestor as soon as someone suggests immigration restriction?
115 Comment by CanadianObserver on 3 September 2007:

Jeff, what have Christian conservatives accomplished? Have they ended or restricted affirmative action, open borders, widespread violence against whites, or anti-European pro-diversity bias in schools & colleges? Anyone who reads Chronicles ought to know the answer. Are conservatives interested in helping working class Americans whose jobs or wages are threatened by serfs from Mexico? Of course not, the RC Church supports the foreign invasion of the US. The evangelicals just want to kill ‘dem dare Ay-rabs and scream about homosexuals.

If some are turning to white nationalism it is only because Christian conservatives have failed.
116 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 3 September 2007:

So Christianity is suicidal? Gotcha.

So we are weak for not becoming more like the Black Panthers…I see. Let us begin shouting “White Power” and attacking non-whites.

You’re right, they will be, but I have yet to write anything in support of multiculturalism and I think you know it. I don’t want them to be “tragic mulattos” in your little ethnic gang-war.

And why do so many do so many immigration-restrictionists (like me) bring up our ancestors who came here legally and assimilated? Because it’s true.
117 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 3 September 2007:

But, CA, why do you think WN is better?

Christian conservatives failed, precisely because society became less Christian and less conservative *before* the post-’65 invasion.

Whites voted in socialist governments, let our faith fail, and had culturally surrendered our heritage *before* the flood-gates of mass immigration were opened.

WNs down-play the essence of the West–it’s freedom, justice, property-values and Christianity–and hold up whiteness as an ideal. But what is so great about that by itself?

So the conservative movement has largely failed. So did the Southern cause. But were either wrong? We either worth rejecting and replacing with pseudo-science and bigotry?
118 Comment by Mr. Dithers on 3 September 2007:

“What matters is the preservation of the Western way of life.”

The Western way of life cannot be preserved if we become a mish mash of races and cultures. We will cease being American in any sense and resemble a cross between India and Brazil. Most of the third world immigrants who come to this country have no desire or interest in assimilating and are openly hostile to Western culture.

This so called infantile ethnocentrism is a fact of life and is practiced by every non-western nation and people. It isn’t a coincidence that Japan is 98% ethnic Japanese. Why do non-whites set up racial/ethnic enclaves and racially exclusive organizations in America? Ever hear of the pro-Mexican advocacy organization La Raza which translated into English means “The Race”. There’s literally thousands of organizations that serve the racial interests of black people. Whites have been so beaten down and bludgeoned by post WWII racial guilt that they no longer act in this manner.

America was rooted in the blood and soil concept of nationhood and isn’t some creedal nation. John Jay’s address isn’t exactly a clarion call to multiculturalism and economic determinism. If race was immaterial to the founding stock of Americans then why was citizenship in all states only granted to “free white persons”?

Non-whites are not buying into the one race, one world claptrap of contemporary Christianity. If white people are to survive then they best discard the raceless and cosmopolitan tenets of Christianity that is practiced by so many of them.
119 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 3 September 2007:

For one, unless I missed someone there *is* a consensus that we need much less immigration, and a rejection of unassimilated immigrants. So unless minorities are having 12 kids per person, this is not a problem. No one here is advocating a “mish-mash of cultures”, and for myself at least, only want a measure of toleration for assimilated American-culture possessing ethnic minorities.

The fact that ethnocentrism is practiced by non-Western culture requires that Western cultures engage in it as well? Two wrongs make a right? If everyone else jumped off a cliff, would you do it too?

We may not be a creedal nation, but we not “blood-and-soil” either. Again, do the Germans and Irish and other groups that came here and assimilated never become American? If so how many Americans are real Americans? Are all the Gottfrieds, Takis, Trifkovics really Americans are they still Germans, Greeks and Serbs?

And so we must reject Christian universalism? I see. And let’s get rid of that pesky concept of sin too. And what’s with this Resurrection non-sense? Let’s just abolish religion when it gets in our way.
120 Comment by Mr. Dithers on 3 September 2007:

I don’t think anyone is advocating expelling, killing, or mistreating the small number of non-whites who have assimilated and who bear no hostility to white people or Western culture. Ethnocentrism isn’t a “wrong” when it’s a fact of life and if we don’t engage in ethnocentrism/ethnic nepotism then we are putting ourselves and our children at enormous risk in this increasingly hostile and anti-white environment we find ourselves in.

As someone else already pointed out, this will ultimately lead to our disappearance as a people. We must regain a sense of racial consciousness and uniqueness in order to have a fighting chance of survival. If this is not Christian, then I guess we need another religion that serves our needs as a people, or no religion at all.

I’m a partisan of all European peoples so I don’t see how my earlier comments connote dislike of any European ethnic group such as the Greeks or Serbs. You seem a little misguided on race since the Irish and Germans are not races but ethnic strains of the same race. In fact, England was invaded by Germanic peoples such as the Anglo-Saxons and Normans so many Englishmen have some German blood. Further, Germans and those of partial German descent are the largest ethnic group among whites in America.

This belief that anyone from all over the galaxy can become a “real” or “good” American is just sheer nonsense. Can any white person become Chinese, or Sudanese, Pakistani simply by moving to those nations? If we aren’t a blood and soil nation then why didn’t the founding fathers invite Africans, Asians and Arabs into the country at the conclusion of the revolutionary war? Why were our immigration policies racially and ethnically restrictive and crafted to preserve America’s Northern European racial heritage until 1965?
121 Comment by Nicholas G.P. MOSES on 3 September 2007:

In the era of racial politicking, it would be difficult if not impossible to convince racial minorities to accept that the U.S. will remain a majority white nation while yet showing non-whites no ill will. Unfortunately, the other two alternatives are absorption into the Third World or violent racism, neither of which is in the least appealing or moral.

Jean Raspail might ask, “When the Son of Man returns, will He find Faith on the Earth?” Anyone who hasn’t read The Camp of the Saints should do so, now.
122 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 3 September 2007:

On the first point, good, but I think you underestimate their numbers.

I would disagree that ethnocentrism is a part of life–it may be popular and widespread, but I would not say a definite part of the human condition.

The idea that West’s religion is expendable is completely wrong. Do we really want to have an Islamic, atheist or pagan society? Would you really trade a Christian society with some non-Europeans for a all-European society without Christianity? Many of us will not abandon our faith for fear of death, much less fear of racial minorities.

I must ask, why are you partisan for European peoples? I am pure European (English and German, with a dash of Irish and Norwegian), but I fail to see the overwhelming attraction of my racial heritage–especially my race separated from my religion and distinct language and culture.

The policies of Founders may teach us many things, but they were not perfect–I don’t think their views and policies should be accepted without question.
123 Comment by Bill Gardner on 3 September 2007:

Turn the other cheek means love one’s enemies. It also means being able to take a rap in the mouth without necessarily having to automatically respond. This would define in my opinion the christian man (or woman these days for that matter? I don’t know, she’d have to tell me about that?) But it doesn’t mean one should not defend themselves if the onslaught continues on every level imaginable overtly and covertly day in and day out year in and year out for decades or hundreds of years. For truth is a double edged sword and in that regard didn’t Christ indicate so. It doesn’t mean don’t defend oneself, or one’s own. Unless the person has chosen as their own, the discipline of pacifism. Then the courage comes in knowing you don’t lift a finger even if it means death.

I wonder about christins though who after turning the other cheek once – keep turning it? And they’re not pacifists to my knowledge either. Is that cowardice? Could start to look like the 3 stooges… judaism is Moe, christianity is Larry, and islam is Curly. I think we’d all rather be Moe!
124 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 3 September 2007:

Moses, I disagree.

Everyone here favors limiting immigration substantially, and, I assume, returning to a more family orientated life-style. In that case the racialist end up getting what they want (white majority society) while the whole of society does not necessarily have to accept their racialist views.
125 Comment by Jimmy on 4 September 2007:

@Jeff

People like you should be in government. Hallelujah.
126 Comment by Mr. Dithers on 4 September 2007:

I wish to see all European people thrive and prosper in their respective nations. I want the best for white people wherever they reside. Europe should have the right to exclude muslims, and I don’t like hearing that mosques are being built all over Europe. The darling mooslims (sic) will not be so tolerant of us as we are towards them. Somehow I think we would see jihad if hundreds of Christian churches were being constructed throughout the middle east.

If you don’t feel a sense of pride in your racial heritage then nothing I can say could every make you do so. You’re more likely to intermarry with someone not of your race and sire mixed race offspring. That’s a big part of the problem we find ourself in – whites being indifferent to their heritage while non-whites embrace theirs. This type of person believes all races are equal and interchangeable. The cultural Marxists of the public schools have done their job.

Concerning the founding fathers, I’m not so arrogant that I think we should stand this country’s traditions on their head just to be rebels and pretend we think for ourselves. While they were imperfect men, they were also very pragmatic about many things especially when it came to race.
127 Comment by Sid Cundiff on 4 September 2007:

#120 “It isn’t a coincidence that Japan is 98% ethnic Japanese.”

And maybe that’s just the problem. Remember back in the 80s when we were told that the 21 Century would be “the Japanese Century”. It hasn’t turned out that way. Just guessing, but aside from their needing some sex-ed lessons, like the Europeans, on how to conceive children, maybe the reasons are:

1. In the 80s they were good at knowing what American car buyers wanted. Now they aren’t as good at knowing what foreign folk want to buy. Could it be because of a touch, however slight, of xenophobia and an unfamiliarity on a daily bases with non-Japanese?

2. Purely an impression, but I find the Japanese and the French speak English less well than the Germans, younger Italians, the Chinese, the Indians, the Pakistanis, the Kenyans, and souls from the Philippines. To know a foreign language is to be more cosmopolitan. Could it be that the Japanese schools are less successful in teaching English? If the battle of Waterloo was won on the playing fields on Eton, then the battle to compete in the world market is won in the classrooms of high schools. Makes me feel kinda proud. Yet I know first-hand the Gringo Public Fool System: it makes the Japanese system shine, so to speak, like the rising sun.

The dilemma for real conservatism: How can one be local, and thus rooted, and thus a strong, stable, and “deep” personality, and at the same time be a prosperous cosmopolitan merchant, and thus a “wide” personality? Are we now either people 5 miles wide and one inch deep, or one inch wide and 5 miles deep?
128 Comment by Iliya Pavlovich on 4 September 2007:

I’ll call myself BLUE in regards to RED’s rubbish:

“96Red
Srdja Trifkovic…now theres a REAL American name for ya!”

Would it be that Mr. Red traces his lineage to the S(…)itting Bull?
place in parents reserved for possible use of letter H – at will of the reader.
129 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 4 September 2007:

@ Jimmy: Ouch. Or thank you.

@ Dithers: While I agree Muslims will not be so tolerant as Christians, I must notice that you seem to use “European” and “Christian” interchangeably. Especially since many Europeans are no longer Christians, let’s be honest.

Too late. The offspring are on their way.

Yes, I feel pride in my European-American cultural heritage, my religion, my family, my country, but no, not my racial origins. I am not proud of a super-extended family half of whose members are atheists, socialists, Cultural Marxists or fools.

The CMs did do their best to indoctrinate my generation, but I think you are reaching when you try to pin this on them. A certain amount of intermingling amongst groups has always been and will always be.

And how, may I ask, am I standing the traditions on their head? By not acknowledging the sacredness of one taboo? Is that the whole of the American tradition to you?
130 Comment by Nicholas G.P. MOSES on 4 September 2007:

“Everyone here favors limiting immigration substantially, and, I assume, returning to a more family orientated life-style. In that case the racialist end up getting what they want (white majority society) while the whole of society does not necessarily have to accept their racialist views.”

Of course that is what we want. My point is only that, given the race-bating so dear to politicians these days, that simply will not fly with the ever-expanding non-white minorities in this country. The culture of victimhood and self-ideation has taught them that accepting America as a culturally European entity is an affront to their own dignity and identity. All I’m saying is that anyone hoping to reverse that is in for quite a ride; there are not any easy solutions forthcoming. Our situation is not quite as hopeless as Northern Ireland’s, but it’s not enviable.
131 Comment by Brandon Ragle on 4 September 2007:

Western civilization cannot exist without Western people…period. That the overwhelming majority of this planet’s human accomplishments sprang from the West is obvious. Anyone who would claim that Western man’s genetic endowments had nothing to do with this phenomenon is a scoundrel of the lowest rank.
132 Comment by Tanstaafl on 4 September 2007:

For a bunch of supposed conservatives too many of you seem to have your panties tangled in a bunch arguing over liberal identity politics.

Wake up. Our countries are being invaded with the aid of our traitorous elites and We the Indigenous are being displaced and marginalized. That should be enough of a realization to unite the true conservatives.
133 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 4 September 2007:

But, BR, what are “Western people”? Does that just mean white or can it include people of other colors?

Thomas Sowell, despite his faults, is a Western man. John Walker Lind, despite his whiteness is no Western man.

It may have more than nothing to do with our success, but if you want to say it is the only factor, and that our cultural and religious identity is unimportant next to our racial identity, you are a scoundrel of a lower rank.
134 Comment by Jimmy on 4 September 2007:

No sarcasm here. Guys like you should be the mainstream.
135 Comment by Paul F. on 4 September 2007:

“At age 57, I’m old enough to remember what people were saying 50 years ago about what today’s world would be like and none of it happened!”

People were predicting this 30 years ago. From the Christian Science Monitor Jan. 12 ‘77 – “A bilingual U.S. in 50 years?” by Richard L. Strout:

“The new Levi report says immigrants (legal) now “account for 30 percent of the U.S. population growth.” And nobody knows precisely how many Spanish-speaking illegal immigrants must be added annually to that number. The Levi report merely notes that in one year, 1975, some 766, 600 illegals were located. One estimate is a million more illegal entries a year, added to six to 10 million here already. Leonard Chapman, Commissioner of Immigration, says his 1,600-member patrol force is able to apprehend only about one out of every three or four who enter illegally.

It has always seemed extraordinary to me how casually Americans take such figures. Nobody seems to care very much. Yet just as a drama it is interesting. A country that has cut its population expansion by birth down to about zero (the United States) has a 2,000-mile border with a country that has the highest or one of the highest population growths in the world”
136 Comment by Brian Wheeler on 4 September 2007:

Nicholas Moses

It seems to be a rupugnant conclusion to you that the majority Euro-America population may very well have to resort to force and violence to prevent complete economic and racial disposession within the borders of America.

Well, it is about time people start thinking about these things. Just how avoidable is the use for and violence to prevent economic and racial dispossession?

My sense is that the day will arrive when just enough Euro-Americans will no longer give their allegiance to the Republican/DEmocratic Beltway consensus. It will happen when the Republican/Beltway corporate consensus can no longer deliver the goods to a critical number of
Euro-Americans.

In the animal Kingdom-from insects to mamals- if a group of members of a particular species discovers that it has been decieved by another member,the group will respond with extreme violence and destroy the decieving memeber of the species(pointed out to Noam Chomsky in a conversation with Harvard with biologist Lawrence Trivers. Conversation can be found with a google search)

What is the option to using force and violence at some point in time? Tolerate colonization of large tracts of America territory by Mexico,China,India,Iran and Pakistan? Just wait when the colletive cognitive dissonnace melts away across White Amereca.
137 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 4 September 2007:

Of course it’s repugnant–for some reason people don’t like violence. I know this is shocking to neocons and their spiritual brothers, but it’s true. We would rather raise our families and live freely–we will fight if necessary, but like all the great men of our past, we do not rush to war or seek out conflict.

And again with the men-as-animals nonsense. Humans are humans–we are not insects or mere mammals, but *men*. As a rule we don’t have to kill each other to survive.

We don’t have to worry about a foreign colonial threat if we would just close down mass immigration (which, as I pointed out, seems to be the consensus on this board, if not in all the US) and go back to honoring fatherhood, motherhood and valuing child more than luxury.
138 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 4 September 2007:

Thank you Jimmy and Gardner, forgive me, but I understood that not at all.
139 Comment by Gens Alba on 4 September 2007:

I can see that “David Frum Jr.” (aka Sid Cundiff) is back to his usual business of white self-hatred, and promoting political correctness, open borders, multiculturalism, and assisting with the third-world invasion of the West.
140 Comment by Nicholas G.P. Moses on 4 September 2007:

“It may have more than nothing to do with our success, but if you want to say it is the only factor, and that our cultural and religious identity is unimportant next to our racial identity, you are a scoundrel of a lower rank.”

No, it is not the only or even most important factor, but it should be manifest that it would be easier for some people to be part of Western civilization than others, and that racial heritage may play a part of this. Perhaps it is due only to perception, but let’s face it: a man’s face IS the first thing we see of him.

Even then, there are limits. If I move to France, marry a Frenchwoman, acquire French nationality, and raise my children on French soil, they will be first and foremost French. I don’t suppose I could ever consider myself French, even though I truly love and would fight for French civilization and culture.

I am happy to fraternize with any sane person. Daily life, perhaps today more than ever, demands that we interact with many more people than we could ever fraternize with. People are called upon to make snap judgments, and they may–and do–frequently judge wrongly. And there is no easy solution to this: not “integration,” not “busing,” or anything else.

“It seems to be a rupugnant conclusion to you that the majority Euro-America population may very well have to resort to force and violence to prevent complete economic and racial disposession within the borders of America.”

“Have to resort to force and violence”? If by “force” you mean deportation of illegals, no argument there. If by “violence” you mean repression directed against attempted revolution, again, I cannot argue. If, however, you are discussing forcible dispossession and/or murder of people who have committed no crime, then it is not only repugnant, but grossly immoral and unjust in the CLASSIC sense of the word, “justice.”
141 Comment by White Christian PaleoConservative on 4 September 2007:

B: “Although I may disagree with some of the more scientific notions of race and certainly do not denounce Christianity, I do agree with the more traditional notions of kith and kin, blood and soil, ancestral traditions, and genophilia.”

I agree. I too agree with the more traditional notions of race.

Brian Wheeler: “If we are reduced to a racial minority within the borders of America, They will kill US.”

I have already heard some Mestizos referring to 2040 (the year they think whites will become a minority) as “payback time.”

Brian Wheeler: “My brother is bulled and tortured by a hindu legal immigrant supervisor at work every day. He fantasizes about murdering him every day.”

Indians are the most racist people I’ve ever met. They believe their race is superior to all others and that within 100 years whites will be their serfs.

All other races have pride in their ancestors’ accomplishments and wish to preserve the existence of their respective races. My Japanese acquaintances want to further the Japanese race; my mestizo acquaintances want to further the Mestizo race (la Raza), etc.

But this is not allowed for whites. Are we doomed to annihilation? Whites need to wake up, take pride in their past, and seek what is in their best interest.
142 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 4 September 2007:

“it should be manifest that it would be easier for some people to be part of Western civilization than others, and that racial heritage may play a part of this,”

I’ll grant you that.

I should note that my main point here is to defend those second and third generation Asians and non-’ghetto’ blacks, whom are as Western as the rest of us. I will concede that for first generation immigrants, it is nearly impossible to become another nationality.

“If by “force” you mean deportation of illegals, no argument there. If by “violence” you mean repression directed against attempted revolution, again, I cannot argue. If, however, you are discussing forcible dispossession and/or murder of people who have committed no crime, then it is not only repugnant, but grossly immoral and unjust in the CLASSIC sense of the word, “justice.””

Hear, hear.
143 Comment by White Christian PaleoConservative on 4 September 2007:

Marc: “I’m serious. I’m getting out of this country. How can I stay here and hope to raise children in this country, when I see where it is going? At least in Europe, we have a chance.”

I’ve heard many other whites recently expressing a similar sentiment: whites returning to their ancestral lands in the UK or Europe and making a stand there.

And you are right. Europe is much whiter than the U.S. The CIA World Factbook puts the UK at 92% white, Switzerland at 98% white, and almost all European countries are over 90% white.

In the U.S., whites could become a minority around 2040, when it will be “payback time” (according to some mestizos, blacks and Asians).

And to further confuse things, many U.S. government agencies count hispanics as “white” when 99% of them are not. With the exception of a small upper class of pure European blood, 30% of Mexicans are pure Amerindian, and 60% are Mestizo (mostly Amerindian with a few Spaniard drops of blood).

If the U.S. becomes a third-world wasteland, as both big business and the multicultural lobby wants it to be, then whites may have no choice but to eventually go back to the U.K. or Europe.
144 Comment by Nicholas G.P. Moses on 4 September 2007:

“I should note that my main point here is to defend those second and third generation Asians and non-’ghetto’ blacks, whom are as Western as the rest of us. I will concede that for first generation immigrants, it is nearly impossible to become another nationality.”

And in many (not all) cases there is truth in that, though it must also be pointed out that the integration of Asians and blacks into “Western” culture often amounts to the loss of any real or admirable identity (i.e., the bland Anglo-American exurb).

Don’t get me wrong. I don’t blame them for poor pop-culture any more than I blame whites for ceasing to patronize great Western art, music and literature in favor of said pop culture. All the world’s vibrant peoples are melting together into one tasteless, unidentifiable, hedonistic concoction.
145 Comment by J. on 4 September 2007:

“… puts the UK at 92% white, Switzerland at 98% white, and almost all European countries are over 90% white… (etc.)”

How are Semites (Arabs and Jews) counted here? As white or non-white?
146 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 4 September 2007:

“tasteless, unidentifiable, hedonistic concoction”

That about sums it up right there.
147 Comment by Brandon Ragle on 4 September 2007:

It’s called ethno-nepotism (see the work of Tatu Vanhanan). Most folks, Chronicles subscribers to Joe Six Pack, would prefer living next door to an atheist Swede instead of a pious church-going Somali.

Those who want freedom from the state and a culture worth preserving and multi-ethnic, multi-racial polyglot nation at the same time, desire what never was and what never can be. Again I say: you cannot have Western civilization without Western people. It took Robert Putnam 5 years to figure out what everyone already knows.
148 Comment by Mr. Dithers on 4 September 2007:

To: 132 Jeff Willoughby

By your remarks you feel that race is insignificant and you would feel more loyalty to a black Christian than a white person with no strong religious convictions. I can assure you that most black Christians would be more loyal to other blacks, regardless of religious affiliation, than to a white Christian. I would be curious to know the racial makeup of your neighborhood.

Race is significant and most of us have come to that conclusion through observation and reflection over the years. What non-white nation has produced political traditions even remotely similar to what you see in the West? And no, A Chinamen or Hindu living in a Western nation doesn’t make him Western any more than me living in China makes me Chinese. Re-read my earlier post.

You alone are not necessarily standing any tradition on its head, but your earlier comment seemed to indicate that you don’t hold the founding fathers in very high esteem. In this respect you aren’t much different than the cultural Marxists and doctrinaire liberals who believe our Constitution is a living document and subject to reappraisal and revision to conform to modernist thinking. My apologies if I’m incorrect.

Yes, some racial intermingling will result when differing racial groups come in contact with one another, but the practice still isn’t widespread in spite of all of the television brainwashing encouraging white women to date and marry non-white males. Even now interracial marriages only account for 4-5% of marriages.

You can pray day and night for a multiracial utopia, but the fact remains that this is not only not possible, but contradicts the established laws of nature. Racial and ethnic conflict is all around you. Jews vs. Palestinians, Hutus vs. Tutsis, Serb vs. Croat, black vs. white, Mexican vs. black. The more people are forced to mix the more conflict will result.
149 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 4 September 2007:

For me personally, I don’t want any (or at least many) Swedes or Somalis flooding in the country. But if both get here and are both Americanized, I *will* take the African Christian over the European atheist.

And again, the WNs show their colors: race is more important than religion or culture.

And, speaking for everyone on the board (that I know of): no one wants a polyglot or multicultural nation. No one wants that here. But a few of us know that having a few blacks, Asians, and Amerindians in our country will not kill us.
150 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 4 September 2007:

Many black Christians may feel that way, but not all. And if they all did, we would still generally share more values and cultural traditions that with white and black atheists.

My neighborhood is mostly white with some Asians and few Mexicans– many of both groups are unassimilated and I would say they should leave, but also many who are assimilated and essentially indistiguishable from the rest of us.

I would have to say you are incorrect–I hold the Fathers in high esteem and think of them as great men–but like all men (myself most definately included) they were fallible.

I know interracial marriage is not widespread–though including me, it has occurred twice in my extended family–but I’m not sure why that’s important.

I should note that I too take my racial views from solid experience. I have met both un-American minorities and fully American ones–I am not just dreaming or idealizing, but I am going on empirical evidence.

If I remember correctly Serbs and Croats are essentially the same ethnic group, really devided by the former’s Orthodoxy and the latter’s Catholicism. For Israel, again religion and culture play a large part. Same for Northern Ireland.

But I’m not sure why their conflicts mean doom for us. Just because it may happen, doesn’t mean it will. And anyway, so long as mass immigration is stopped in the near future, the US will never have a white minority, so I fail to see why this is so great an issue for you.
151 Comment by Brian Wheeler on 4 September 2007:

The choice is not between Swedish athiests and Nigerian Christians. Keep them both out.

Millions of Christian Nigerians living in Nigereian are not interchangeable with Millions of Euro-Christian Americans.
152 Comment by Brian Wheeler on 4 September 2007:

“assimilated” American born asians work to promote the interests of their racial group. They oppose to shutting down Asian legal immigration. Post-1965 asian LEGAL IMMIGRATION full speed. A majority ‘assimilated” American born asians are part of the asian fifth column. Euro-Americans are justified in bringing back the Chinese Exclusion Act.

Don’t be so weak-kneed about it Nicholas Moses.

LEGAL asian IMMIGRANTS are legally allowed to participate in and bring about in the complete economic and racial dispossession of the Euro-American majority.
153 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 4 September 2007:

BW: Agreed on keeping them both out.

They are not interchangeable (more for cultural reasons, I would argue) and I don’t think anyone on the board wants to bring them over here.
154 Comment by Brian Wheeler on 4 September 2007:

“assimilated” American born asians work to promote the interests of their racial group. They oppose to shutting down Asian legal immigration. Post-1965 asian LEGAL IMMIGRATION full speed. A majority ‘assimilated” American born asians are part of the asian fifth column. Euro-Americans are justified in bringing back the Chinese Exclusion Act.

Don’t be so weak-kneed about it Nicholas Moses.
155 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 4 September 2007:

@ BW 157: How many asians do you actually know, by the way?
156 Comment by Frank on 4 September 2007:

Nigeria is renowned the world over for its ability to produce conmen. This is mostly cultural and not genetic of course. I post that just as a warning.

—

Which to prefer black Christians or white atheists?

I’ll say this: Christianity is the native (after 2 millennia) religion of the whites, and an atheist should in theory be easy to convert. Also, religion will wax and wane within a populace; blood and soil nationalism is a stronger tie for mere humans. During a time of weak religious ties, the nationalism should hold the populace together and discourage national suicide.

If you want a theocracy, it exists in a monastery and in the Vatican. But is it realistic to propose such a thing for the rest of the “West?”
157 Comment by Brian Wheeler on 4 September 2007:

Yes there are very nice asians. I’m sure your wife is a very nice person. However. leaders from asian America have already begun to issue threats of retaliation -in the event that asian immigration is shut down- the mainstream media towards Euro-America.

Asians and other non-White racial groups are politically organized around their racial interests. Either Euro-Americns do the same or they will be reduced to a racial minority in America.

Nicholas Moses fears that when White Americans do finally get around to organizing around their legitimate racial interests there will be irreconcilable differences between US and THEM. And he’s right.

Very serious racial conflict between US and THEM is unavoidable.
158 Comment by Frank on 4 September 2007:

Southern Asians somehow do seem to integrate well in my experience. This might be simply because they don’t often exist in numbers high enough to form their own enclaves.

In college I met some Chinese though who were fiercely nationalistic.
159 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 4 September 2007:

Wheeler, you bone-headed illiterate, let me repeat this again:

EVERYONE HERE WANTS NO OR SIGNIFICANTLY LESS IMMIGRATION

So unless you are advocating killing off the Asians who are already here, I fail to see the point of the Exclusion Act speel.
160 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 4 September 2007:

Wheeler @ 162, I hadn’t read that before I went on to 164.

Many racial “leaders” have popped up but they never represent their communities as much as they claim.

We don’t need to organize race–we just need to shut down immigration.

This conflict is not inevitable
161 Comment by Bede on 4 September 2007:

I am a paleoconservative, not a white nationalist, and I would definitely prefer a white atheist to a black Christian. Any black man, Indian, Asian would show more loyalty to his own tribe, whatever religion, than to white Christians. This is basic human nature.

St. Augustine said that “since cannot help everyone, one has to be concerned with those who by reason of place, time, or circumstances, are by some chance more tightly bound to you.” Paul said (1 Tim. 5:8) that “if anyone does not take care of his own, and especially of his own household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.”

And what is the classical notion of race but an extension of one’s family? It’s kith and kin, ancestral ties, genophilia.

Furthermore, as a Christian, I have obligations too to non-Christians. I’d be more obliged to convert a white atheist (a kinsman) than to consort with foreign tribesmen, whatever their religion.

The very concept of ‘nation’ as the Latin ‘nascere’ implies suggests link by blood. And in no way does a classical understanding of Christianity negate this historical understanding nor its kin obligations.
162 Comment by Brian Wheeler on 4 September 2007:

Willioughby I’m not advocating a race war. I just think the situation has deteriorated beyond repair. Believing that it has a high probability of happening is different from advocating it.

To have even a snow balls chance in hell of avoiding violent racial conflict, legal immigration would have to be completly shut down.

And even shutting down all immigration, the non-white population growth will still have enormous momentum. There aren’t enough money and resources to make a majority of people within the borders of the US happy. I’m a realist. Gasoline has already been poured into the basement.
163 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 4 September 2007:

I think you are projecting your own views onto human nature. What ever happened to the good Samaritan?

You see, I *do* take care of my household, and race is an extension of the family–but it a silly one. You know your family and are directly connected. You don’t know your race. You have specific duties as a son, husband and father, but what for race? Can anyone find me, in the Bible, where that is commanded?

Of course you have obligations to non-Christians–but you use a false choice. You say “convert a white atheist” and “consort with foreign tribesmen”. That sounds a lot like framing the issue. Would you consort with an atheist and convert a foreign tribesman?

The root-word behind nation does not necessarily define it.
164 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 4 September 2007:

Wheeler: Then let’s completely shut it down. That will be a start, at least.

But I doubt that the situation is that dire. If we simply hold our ground–as Americans–against the NAACP, CAIR and other hostile groups, we will be fine. I still don’t see the absolute necessity to bind ourselves together based on our racial identity.
165 Comment by Bede on 4 September 2007:

Jeff Willoughby,

So, in other words, you support a propositional nation?

I think that Latin root of ‘nation’ is essential, as it has been for over 2,000 years in defining what a ‘nation’ is. It is only muddle-headed worshipers of Reason who think that people can live in such a utopia of ideas (and politically correct ones at that).

You may think that racial identity unimportant, but it is in the world in which we live. Go to any public school cafeteria in Los Angeles and you will see all the whites sitting together, all the Asians sitting together, all the blacks sitting together, and all the Mexicans sitting together.

Even if race is a social construct, we live in a world delineated by language and, as Wittenstein would say, we play a language game where 99% of the players recognize race as a legitimate category.

But I do think it’s more than this. I think it is indeed an extension of family, and anyone who has spent considerable time at genealogy, tracing his family back centuries, realizes this fact. In this ancient sense, race is nothing more than extended family, the ancestral, kith and kin, genophilia.
166 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 4 September 2007:

I’m not sure what you mean by “propositional nation” but people of different racial makeups can live here under one culture, so far as I am concerned. And seeing how this country has *always* been as such, I don’t think I am going out on a limb. Unless those Germans and Irishmen are not of that same nation as Anglo-Saxons, that is.

I went to a public school in northern California, and the majority of the students grouped themselves together by other factors. There were nerds, jocks etc., with the groups based on intelligence and shared culture. And mind you about 30% of my graduating class was East or Southern Asian.

Language is certainly important, but I don’t think we are slaves to it. The meaning of word can change over time.

Race is extended family, but the farther you get from the nuclear center of the family, the weaker the real ties. I am bonded to my mother and brother and sister and father, but I am not bonded to any random person in Berlin or Ontario or London or Dublin, despite our shared genitic heritage
167 Comment by Marc on 4 September 2007:

Europe is much whiter than the U.S. The CIA World Factbook puts the UK at 92% white, Switzerland at 98% white, and almost all European countries are over 90% white.

The only European country that isn’t 90+% white is probably France. However, it’s worth noting that in Britain, 25% of births are to foreigners, mostly South Asians.

And to further confuse things, many U.S. government agencies count hispanics as “white” when 99% of them are not. With the exception of a small upper class of pure European blood, 30% of Mexicans are pure Amerindian, and 60% are Mestizo (mostly Amerindian with a few Spaniard drops of blood).

Well, all the genetic testing that I’ve seen done on Mexicans and Mexican Americans show a fairly high European component, in the order of 40-45%. I know a few Mexicans who have kids with whites, and their kids are pretty white looking.

I’m still getting out of here, though.
168 Comment by Boba on 4 September 2007:

Rules must be set that everyone who lives in the US/Canada has to obey by. All “affirmative action”- and “minority right”- type of laws must be discontinued if we want to preserve our countries, i.e. America (and Canada) based on Judaeo-Christian upbringing and traditions.
169 Comment by Boba on 4 September 2007:

Rules must be set that everyone who lives in the US/Canada has to obey by. All “affirmative action”- and “minority right”- type of laws must be discontinued if we want to preserve our countries, i.e. America (and Canada) based on Judeo-Christian upbringing and traditions.
170 Comment by Mr. Dithers on 4 September 2007:

White nationalists do place a premium on race rather than culture and religion. We’ve never tried to hide our true colors or been coy about where we stand on the issues unlike the milquetoast conservatives among us.

If religion and culture are the determining factors in an individual and nation’s success, then how can you explain the political and economic failure of Catholic countries like Guatemala and Mexico? Mexico city has lots of Christians but also boasts one of the highest violent crime rates in the world. Christian dogma hasn’t elevated them to first world status. Honduras has copied our Constitution almost verbatim, yet cannot duplicate the success of the United States. Is the answer to those problems more bibles or more white people?

Even if immigration was completely halted tomorrow, whites will still become a minority in the U.S. in 2-3 decades. We were once 90% of the population in 1965, but are barely holding at 65% today. Simply stemming the immigrant tide won’t be enough and yes there will have to be resettlement and repatriation of large numbers of non-whites who arrived post 1965. The majority are in this nation for economic gain and not political idealism.

Many non-whites hail from nations who would never tolerate a growing and permanent presence of white Europeans. Might makes right in their countries and raceless, deracinated whites will be in for a big surprise when they become a minority and are at their mercy.
171 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 4 September 2007:

Easily. For one I think we must take into account language and it’s effect on culture. I would say English cultures are better. And then there’s the fact that Latin American Catholicism has been falling for years. Strong anti-clerical governments and movements have largely destroyed authentic and devout Catholicism. Also there’s the fact that most of these countries have been handicapped by Marxist revolutions, which have brought down white nations to their knees (See West vs East Germany before unification).

If, after immigration is halted, white people cannot reproduce enough to avoid becoming a minority, that means that our society is too sick to survive anyway and we are doomed.

“simply stemming the immigrant tide won’t be enough and yes there will have to be resettlement and repatriation of large numbers of non-whites who arrived post 1965″

If you try to “resettle” my family (that is mixed race), you will meet your Maker soon thereafter.
172 Comment by Nicholas G.P. MOSES on 4 September 2007:

“Don’t be so weak-kneed about it Nicholas Moses.”

“Weak-kneed”? I invite you to come to Miami and have a drink or two with me and then see how weak-kneed I am. Not that I really care, but just for your information:

1. I think the 1924 Immigration Quota Act was on the right track, regardless of the immoral eugenic motivation of some of its supporters;
2. Yes, some Asians have not moved on from Asia. Perhaps some of them are fiercely nationalistic. I have seen hints of this. And if they want to show their true colors and work against the U.S. if we cut off more Asian immigration, I say punish those who do so. Their actions will speak for themselves.
3. Not all of them are such. Witness the fact that an Asian woman married the white Jeff Willoughby. Those who want to fight for American and Western Civilization are our friends. They know why they came here and prefer this place.
4. Just because someone is my friend doesn’t mean I have to want to marry her. And just because I have that hang-up doesn’t mean my brother has to.

“Easily. For one I think we must take into account language and it’s effect on culture. I would say English cultures are better. And then there’s the fact that Latin American Catholicism has been falling for years.”

IF Latin America was ever solidly Catholic in the first place. Latin America is not wholly a part of Western Civilization except at its upper levels; it is not so much skin color but the fact that the indigenous and mixed populations do not have a thousand years of Christendom behind them, nor was their Christianization particularly thorough in all instances.
173 Comment by Nicholas G.P. MOSES on 4 September 2007:

“Yes, some Asians have not moved on from Asia. Perhaps some of them are fiercely nationalistic. I have seen hints of this. And if they want to show their true colors and work against the U.S. if we cut off more Asian immigration, I say punish those who do so. Their actions will speak for themselves.”

One more thing: while we’re at it, I say punish the white–and otherwise–professors who have pushed postmodernism and anti-white, anti-Christian propaganda in the academy. Let them keep their tenure if they have it, but read them out publicly, destroy their credibility, and never let them hold any position of power again.
174 Comment by Jay on 4 September 2007:

“We the Indigenous are being displaced and marginalized” from post 135 epitomizes much of what has been gobbledygooked here ad nauseam.

The problem, of course, is how do you define “the Indigenous”?

American Indians? Even they had come from elsewhere. Moreover, that there seem to be no clear historical record (?) of inhabitants of North America prior to American Indian ancestors’ crossing of Bering straits certainly does not mean there were not any.

Then, I suppose, you are (arbitrarily) restricting the definition to … “Europeans”? Do you mean Nordic Europeans (Vikings)? … Oh, no, “heathens”, … , restrict more … “Christian Europeans”? Consider then the French, or Italians (not least because of Cristoforo Colombo), or Spaniards (on account of the same person), or the Portuguese, etc… That the Anglo mongrels later prevailed (and only temporarily, as we are clearly seeing now ) is thus unrelated to “the Indigenous” claim, even with this “definition”…

You get on the bus that is not empty – and then “solemnly” declare, “From now on, no more passengers admitted” Well, tough.
175 Comment by Mr. Dithers on 4 September 2007:

Ok, in other words the failure of certain non-white nations is just a coincidence and attributable to language. Communist East Germany was more prosperous than “capitalistic” and Christian Latin American countries, so we’re back to race again. Quit sidestepping the issue and come clean.

You have have a fundamental misunderstanding of the immigration problem. The 1965 immigration reform act was enacted by a renegade Congress. Angry Americans were assured this bill wouldn’t alter the racial and ethnic composition of the nation, but they were lied to. The bill has done just that and it has continued to be expanded by demagogic and traitorous politicians thus accelerating the growth of non-whites. There is now de facto ethnic cleansing of whites in several regions of the U.S. most notably in Southern California and the Southwest. Some of the more radical black and latino groups are preaching the outright genocide of white people. Whites are well within their rights to reverse this trend by any means necessary although I’m in favor of using peaceful means. The status quo is unacceptable as it means a creeping genocide for whites.

Your attitude is “hey, their here now, so let’s make the best of it. Heck, I even married one”. I don’t share your attitude and never will. It isn’t my problem that you chose to marry someone of another race. Further you’re a hypocrite by criticizing those posters who you feel are advocating a race war then issue a subtle threat against me for my opinons. I never said all non-whites must go, but most will have to. They are here against the will of the white majority and they aren’t assimilating and becoming flag waving Americans contrary to your fantasies. The details are another story but for you to assume this implies violence is proof of your irrationality and presumptuousness.

I never issued a direct threat against you or your family for who you are or what you believe . Don’t you ever hurl a subtle threat against me again. You are a coward and if you lived in my town or anywhere near me you would be forced to back up your internet machismo.
176 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 4 September 2007:

For one I am not sidestepping, I am just not agreeing, and crony capitalism is as debilitating as open Marxism.

When and if any group wishes to commit genocide against us, I will fight them. We should expel la Raza and incarcerate the Black Panthers if they are acting criminally. End “hate crimes” and be tougher on all violent crime and we won’t have the problem.

But you are engaging in paranoia. Being out bred and genocide are not the same thing. If you want more white people, make them. Stop aborting away the next generation, and start a family yourself.

If anyone made an initial threat, it was you. But if this is a misunderstanding on my part, I do apologize.

I think you are misunderstanding my position: I am not saying “all minorities are assimilating we must keep them”, I am saying “let us tolerate the minorities who are already assimilated,”. There is a difference.

I don’t want to fight anyone whom I don’t have to, and I don’t want to play jock and pick fights online, but I do not think I am a coward.
177 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 4 September 2007:

Also, what about Hong Kong, Japan, and Singapore? Non-white, but still pretty successful. Compare to Russia–very white, but going down the tubes.
178 Comment by Mr. Dithers on 4 September 2007:

We agree on some points and disagree on others. Whites should not have to engage in a birthrate competition with non-whites on their own nations. The bottom line is that whites deserve their own schools, workplaces, communities and nations. We are being denied these things which are needed for any people’s survival. This isn’t happening by accident but the reasons and forces behind it are beyond the scope of our debate.

I may have overreacted on my last post, but didn’t appreciate the threat when I didn’t intend any malice towards you or anyone else. Please forget the coward label as I don’t even know you and was momentarily angry.

Again, there are some things we won’t see eye to eye on, but I guess that’s life after all.
179 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 4 September 2007:

I see the birth-rate issue differently than you do. It’s not a racial competition, but a competition with nature, if you will. Humans are designed for families and families are designed to reproduce. If we fail at this, it means that we have failed as people, and we will die out anyway, even without non-whites.

“The bottom line is that whites deserve their own schools, workplaces, communities and nations”

I essentially agree on this point too. I am in a sense a ‘libertarian’ in so much as I want people to be able to live their own lives largely without interference. If you want an all-white school, an all-white company, an all-white park or even an all-white town, I won’t try to stop you. And if I want to live an inclusive community, you can surely allow me the same luxury, no? If we agree on ending foreign immigration, and if white people return to healthy birth-rates, I think such an arrangement is possible

In the end, I just hope these thing can be decided peacefully and constitutionally.
180 Comment by Nicholas G.P. MOSES on 4 September 2007:

“I think you are misunderstanding my position: I am not saying “all minorities are assimilating we must keep them”, I am saying “let us tolerate the minorities who are already assimilated,”. There is a difference.”

Depends on what they are assimilating into. As I hinted before, I find Anglo-suburban culture insufferably insipid. And living in Miami, I can tell you it’s not pretty to watch Hispanics assimilate into that culture. Telemundo and Univision, from what I’ve heard (I don’t understand Spanish), are even more insuting to the intelligence than Fox and CNN.
181 Comment by Mr. Dithers on 4 September 2007:

Hong Kong, Japan and Singapore are all exceptions. However, Hong Kong and Singapore are greatly aided by Western capital and technical expertise while Japan benefitted from our lack of import duties which allowed Japanese products to undersell U.S. products and gain a foothold in many consumer markets. Such wasn’t the case prior to WWII.

Major American Corporations have set up shop in Singapore and if they all pulled out Singapore’s economy would collapse. To your point, yes, those nations are successful and have motivated and intelligent citizens, but their success isn’t entirely of their own doing.

Russia is struggling economically speaking and will never be a consumer paradise, but you cannot deny their technical supremacy in high technology like Aerospace and Space. They build high quality fighter jets and ICBM’s. Russia has a Space Shuttle and Space Station. The last time I checked Hong Kong, Japan and Singapore do not.
182 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 4 September 2007:

Moses, good point. I should clarify, that every American should be working to improve his culture and that minorities should not be assimilated into dull secularized stupor or ghetto culture.

Dithers, you have a point that those nations have outside help, but on the other hand, so do we. We use plenty of South and East Asian engineers and scientists. Not to see we need them, but it may also mean that they might not need us.

True for the Russian space program, but I would say “they wanted it more”. The US and the former USSR have the most advanced space tech, because they spent so much on it. So far as I know the East Asians haven’t spent much at all.
183 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 4 September 2007:

The thing is, race may well be a factor in human society. I won’t deny well documented IQ differences and other possible racial seperations, but there are so many other factors. Religion, politics, economic policy all have a huge impact on the success of people and nations.

I would ask if you argue from a racialist stand-point that you keep these in mind as well.
184 Comment by Jimmy on 5 September 2007:

@Mr. Jeff Willoughbly

On your comment #187

I think you’re right. The government should let groups form their own schools, clubs and businesses and they could choose whom (not) to admit—government should butt out, why interfere anyway? Leave it to the people to decide.

You’re also right about conservatism not being ethnocentric. If we want to survive, we should be familycentric. Whites who are more familycentric will survive this century, those who don’t will not. Ethnocentrism will only lead to tribalism, group competition and eventually group conflict.

White nationalists should not be condemned too strongly, because I can understand their resentment towards a government which seeks to displace them. US Whites are waking up and they start to get fed up with all these media outlets, government officials, special interest groups and ‘thinktanks’ which relate all problems of minorities to socio-economic factors.

Isn’t it possible that most minorities fail in life despite whites? They fail in Africa, Mexico and the Middle East—no whites there. Oh right colonialism, right… I’m just calling it, as I see it.

Would America be the most succesfull nation in the world without the Europeans, or without Western culture? I don’t think so. Blacks, Hispanics and all the others may dislike whites generally, but they know they need them more then whites need them. Yet, they do not

PS

You’re voting Ron Paul, I presume? From Europe I watch his speeches and War Party opposition daily. Very exciting campaign. Very hopefull message.
185 Comment by White Christian on 5 September 2007:

Mr. Dithers,

You make some excellent points. You should go to JRC in DC at the end of Sept.

Whites need to stand together or we are doomed.
.
186 Comment by Bede on 5 September 2007:

Jimmy,

I would argue that there is an enthnocentric component to conservatism. Conservatism, from the Latin ‘conservare’, means to preserve, and one of the things an authentic conservative should preserve is his ancestral traditions.

Sure there are other things: religion, values, regionalism, tradition. But if you think of race as an extension of family – as grounded in kith and kin, in the ancestral, in genophilia (instinctive attachment to family and tribe) – then it too is sine qua non for the survival of a people.

Cicero’s very concept of natural law (lex naturae), although corresponding to the mind of God, ultimately manifests itself in the ancestral traditions (mos maiorum) of Italians.

We too have our various hybrids of Anglo and European traditions, rooted in our ancestral customs, which should not be forsaken.

Many today have forgotten the importance of “the ancestral.” Many (e.g. the neocons) have all but declared war upon it.
187 Comment by Brian Wheeler on 5 September 2007:

Mr Willoughby

Don’t waste your time on the race and IQ stuff. Totally unnecessary to make the case for immigratin reform. The Bell Curve true believers are just that: true beleivers. In undergraduate courses on the philosophy of biology in both the US and Canada, very serious and rigourous critiques of genetic determism are discussed. There are other seriuos views beside gentic determinism and environmental determinism. The Bell Curve True believers pick their favorite writers and scientists and run with them. There is a large and growing academic literature that they just completly ignore. If they were taking an undergraduate course in the philosophy of biology they would be give an F for doing this on their assigned papers.
This is all I’m going to say on the issue in this thread.
188 Comment by WAKE UP CALL on 5 September 2007:

“Our devil has pale skin and blue eyes…”

“We remain a hunted people. Now you think you have a destiny to fulfill in the land that historically has been ours for forty thousand years. And we’re a new Mestizo nation.”

“We have got to eliminate the gringo, and what I mean by that is if the worst comes to the worst, we have got to kill him.”

– Jose Angel Gutierrez, founder of La Raza
189 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 5 September 2007:

Jimmy: Ron Paul all the way. The only candidate worthy of consideration.

Wheeler: I won’t deny that some Asian (especially Chinese) immigrants are unassimilated and hostile, but I do think you are projecting your own bad personal experiences onto the issue.

From my own experience, mosts Asians are not advocates of turning California into Mexico (unlike a disturbing number of white liberals) and are not as traitorous and conniving as you view them.

Bede: I think conservatism can exist without ethnocentrism (but won’t say it is incompatible). We all want to preserve the traditions and institutions of the past–but none of us, so far as I know, wants to preserve all of them.

I would still say that the race is a sort of extension of the family, but one that is so weak as to be essentially meaningless. All whites are distantly related, but by that token so are all human beings. And if we won’t expand the super-family to all humans, then why are Frenchmen or Finns in my family, if I have no ancestors from France of Finland? And from my experience, family is a real, tangible thing–you live with your nuclear family and know your extended family and you have a set role therein–you are a son, husband, brother, father etc. But what is each man in a race? Are we all brothers?
190 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 5 September 2007:

DD, half of us are White Nationalists and one person has used the term ‘cockroach’. And while I wouldn’t use that term and am not a WN, we are all here, having a fairly civil discussion on ethnic relations and the future of the country.

Contribute something substantive or go away, please.
191 Comment by Jimmy on 5 September 2007:

@Mr. David Duke

Sorry, you’ve got the wrong idea. (As I explained in #192.) Some of us are WN’s, but not me. I think WN will only lead to ethnic strive, which will only make us less well off. Look where WN got the Serbs and Germans, they’ve become most frowned upon peoples of Europe. Up untill this day, Germans can’t show any sympathy for their nation and Serbs are pushed into giving up their province Kosovo. These are not coincidences.

Don’t go down this path of self destruction. If you really care about your people, lead them towards a better future. In your heart, you know I’m right.

@Jeff

My answer towards the fear of becoming future minority is family-centrism. To recreate a stable basis for a healthy society. I also think people should be allowed to form their own schools, so the parents can oversee if the curriculum isn’t filled with cultural Marxist nonsense, stupid personality training sessions and endless psycho-babble. Forgive me, for stating this bluntly, but most men don’t need that.

@Dede

Well philosophival insights into conservatism could go either way. So, I am not going to say to you are right and I am wrong.

Plato also defined ‘race’ as something entirely different. He named it a group of people within a tribe, the ‘race’ of warriors, philosophers, etcetera. Jeff gave good examples concerning his kids. They’re just as American as every other American.

What matters is culture and mass immigration undermines the culture. Stop the immigration or risk losing the most magnificent free civilization/ country, which has ever existed. The US is freer and better than Europe, even though most ideas originated here.

Don’t let the do-good-ers ruin your country.
192 Comment by Bill Gardner on 5 September 2007:

“Organized Jewish groups have played a role in pushing the white man towards oblivion and their actions can only classified as a form of ethnic warfare against their gracious hosts. I recommend everyone read the articles and books by professor Kevin MacDonald for a better understanding.” – Super Dave

Your comments make preeminent sense…and many jews (usually more intelligent than the average jew, or elite jewish rulership) today agree with you. That’s why you should also read people like the Atzmons on http://peacepalestine.blogspot.com Their August articles I believe of Aug. 7 & 15 … or thereabouts.

Sid, who smears you for simply seeing the truth is a dinosaur…but still no doubt either paid in full for his alleged ‘beliefs’ … or paid by the endorphins his beliefs release naturally (as with all us humans) i.e. the brain’s natural painkillers into his brain chemistry. Sometimes, as perhaps in sid’s case, it’s difficult to teach an old dog new tricks… or for example new and improved beliefs i.e. ‘new & improved’ only means different but more accurate beliefs… to get those same endorphins releasing, so necessary, and sid happily functional again on the right track. Win-win.

SUPER DAVE… i luv’ya … are you leaping the Grand Canyon? I’d tag along, but it may weigh’ya down?
193 Comment by Brian Wheeler on 5 September 2007:

Jimmy

Why the Serb bashing? They did not bring upon themselves. I completely reject the comparison with Nazi Germany.

The Bosians and Croations were not innocent bystanders in all of this.

You can blame Bill Clinton and the German goverment for the scale of the bloodshed in the Balkans.

Jeff’s racially hybrid children may be just as American as my kids. However, if Euro-Americans were replaced with Chinese legal immigrants and their offfspring, the offspring would not be just as American as the offspring of todays Euro-Americans…including my kids

Race is important in this situation. Your attempt to disolve the racial factor in this situation is intellectually dishonest.
194 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 5 September 2007:

Jimmy: Amen to family-centrism.

Wheeler: Thank you for admitting the American-ness of my children (though I cringe at the term “hybrid”–what are they, citrus trees?).

We should end (or at least severely limit) legal immigration from Asia (and everywhere else), but I think that some Asians already fully assimilated. One of my former classmates is ethnically pure Chinese, but his family has been here for over a century and is an evangelical Christian. Same for another, a valedictorian and Marine enlistee. And then the next year’s valedictorian, whose family is from India. All conservative and patriotic to boot.
195 Comment by Jimmy on 5 September 2007:

@Mr. Brian Wheeler

Serb bashing? I never bash Serbs! I’ve written over 20 columns on them and the injust treatment put upon them. You could almost call me a Serbophile.

I’m just referring to their wicked leader Milosevic who tried to ethnic cleanse Kosovo and created haywire in Bosnia. Even though, Serbia was provoked a lot. Serbs were victims of a brutal regime. I would never diss ‘em. I’m just pointing out whereto ethnic nationalism will lead. You’re a bit right though, Nazi Germany is a too extreme example. I apologise for giving the wrong impression.

Intellectually dishonest? Ah, man. I’ve told you already, I’m on your side. Too bad, you can’t spot an ally, from an enemy.

Anyway, good website. I like it. I’m going to join new discussions soon. Good night from the Old Country!
196 Comment by Brian Wheeler on 5 September 2007:

Jeff Willoughby

I didn’t like the hybrid description of your children either strike it out of your mind and replace it with biracial.

John Cleese refers to his half English and half American children as half-breeds. Now that’s real friggin nasty!!!!!
197 Comment by Johan Dieckmann on 5 September 2007:

(Re. comment #205)

“… I’m just referring to their wicked leader Milosevic who tried to ethnic cleanse Kosovo and created haywire in Bosnia. Even though, Serbia was provoked a lot. Serbs were victims of a brutal regime. …”

This does not accord with historical fact. For an explanation please see the relevant excerpt from the book “Serbs and Croats” by Alex Dragnich, Professor of Political Science at Vanderbilt University and Chester Nimitz Professor at the U.S. Naval War College, comment #5 to Srdja’s 7 August post “Alekseev: Unilateral Recognition of Kosovo’s Independence Would Be an ‘Historic Mistake’” at the Chronicles.
198 Comment by Leon Haller on 5 September 2007:

The post above from “David Duke” is almost certainly a fabrication from our racial enemies – probably from the ADL, the Southern Poverty Law Center, or some other Jewish anti-white hate group.

What to say? Some of you get it, others don’t. The issue is RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE etc etc.

By the mid-point of this century all of the “Christian paleoconservative” bloviation will seem at best quaint, at worst, treasonous. Events will simply have passed you people by.

As I have written innumerable times on this site’s writebacks, America is a white nation, founded, settled and built by white racial supremacists, most Christian, some not, which, for the last half-century, has been progressively invaded, colonized and conquered by racial/biological aliens who do not assimilate into our culture, and indeed, cannot. The outcome of this greatest tragedy in the history of men will simply be the extirpation of traditional America, and, as this tragedy compounded of racial naivete, self-hatred, and both liberal AND Christian ‘do-gooderism’, is unfolding across the whole Aryan world, the extinction of the white race itself.

When o when will “conservatives” realize this?
199 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 5 September 2007:

Christianity is treason. Gotcha’.
200 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 5 September 2007:

Yes, culture, religion, language, education, and policy does not matter. It’s all race.

The faith of our fathers, of centuries, does not matter. Nope. We should go back to dancing around fires, worshiping Odin and fairies.

The Christianity of the Founders and all subsequent great Americans is dispensable and can be tossed out without another thought. Washington was an idiot for being so tolerant to those damn Jews! And General Lee was a big puss for all his Christian softness!

Private property doesn’t matter–hey it all belongs to the race! Share the wealth with your white brothers, brother!

What? You don’t agree? What are you a traitor?
201 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 5 September 2007:

For the White Nationalist here I have a question:

I show you two people.

One is an anglophone, patriotic, hard-working Christian, whose grandparents immigrated from India. The other is a non-Mestizo (and 100% European) blue-eyed Mexican Marxist fresh from Tiajuana? Which is the American? Which is worthy of being an American? Which will you identify with? With whom would you take sides?
202 Comment by Leon Haller on 6 September 2007:

Come, listen, all you gals and boys, I’m just from Tuckyhoe;
I’m gwine to sing a little song, My name’s Jim Crow.

Chorus: Wheel about, an’ turn about, an’ do jis so;
Eb’ry time I wheel about, I jump Jim Crow.

I went down to de river, I didn’t mean to stay,
But there I see so many gals, I couldn’t get away.

I’m rorer on de fiddle, an’ down in ole Virginny,
Dey say I play de skientific, like massa Pagganninny.

I cut so many munky shines, I dance de galloppade;
An’ w’en I done, I res’ my head, on shubble, hoe or spade.

I met Miss Dina Scrub one day, I gib her sich a buss;
An’ den she turn an’ slap my face, an’ make a mighty fuss.

De udder gals dey ‘gin to fight, I tel’d dem wait a bit;
I’d hab dem all, jis one by one, as I tourt fit.

I wip de lion ob de west, I eat de alligator;
I put more water in my mouf, den boil ten load ob ‘tator.

De way dey bake de hoe cake, Virginny nebber tire;
Dey put de doe upon de foot, an’ stick ‘em in de fire.
203 Comment by Frank on 6 September 2007:

Jeff,

Is neither an option? Because in reality the true answer would be neither. If there are sides to be taken in a struggle, then it may well be the Christian one sides with, but it is the white who can potentially melt into the American nation most easily. Though of course if he’s a firm Marxist, he’s likely more trouble than he’s worth.

I’ve a question for you: a man’s child is raised as a non-Mestizo (and 100% European) blue-eyed Mexican Marxist fresh from Tiajuana and a random stranger’s child is an anglophone, patriotic, hard-working Christian, whose grandparents immigrated from India.

If the parents of the latter pass away, and the former child is recovered and taken back to Dixie, whom does the parent have a duty to help?

The same is true of your kinsman.

—

Is the concept of the nation state so terribly evil? It is the most durable option, and though I look forward to the next world I’m in no hurry to destroy this one. WWII be damned; nation-states may tend to fight, but alternatives cannot resist suicide.
204 Comment by Frank on 6 September 2007:

Jeff,

Ah, I see you’re not opposing the nation-state but the “pure” nation-state. Well, I’ll say that over time a nation will become pure if it doesn’t allow in immigration. Though a nation can absorb some immigrants, they will likely weaken it (especially now that we have genetic testing.) British nationalism seems bolstered by the claim that the majority of its nation shares a heritage of so many thousands of years. America has taken in more foreigners than it can absorb, but secession is an alternative to expulsion.
205 Comment by Brian Wheeler on 6 September 2007:

Let me give you another example of LEGAL IMMIGRANT hindu violence against Euro-Ameriacn men.

Several years back a Euro-American Man of Irish descent was forced to trian his LEGAL IMMIGRANT hindu replacement from India at the California bank he worked at as a computer programmer. A week later he shot himself in the head in the parking lot of this San Francisco bank.

Every year, LEGAL HINDU immigrants are allowed to comit thousands of acts of aggression against Euro-American men.

How much longer are Euro-American Men supose to put up with hindu aggression within the borders of America?

It is happenning because of the passage of the 1965 immigration refrom act which is bringing about a massive racial transformation of America.

Dr. Trafica left something very important out of his post. Post 1965-non-white LEGAL IMMIGRANTS are not innocent bystanders. They are actively involved in perpetuating post-1965 LEGAL IMMIGRATION policy. This makes post 1965 non-white LEGAL IMMIGRANTS guilty of actively participating in the complete economic and racial dispossession of the majority Euro-American population.

It is not uncommon for LEGAL IMMIGRANT muslim immigrants -right off the boat- to get involved with muslim PAC groups-within days of arriving to America. (front page story WSJ a few years back)
206 Comment by Jeff Willoughby on 6 September 2007:

Frank @ 203: Not sure I understand your question? Which uncultured newborn should one raise?

If I have two innocents, I would say “both”.

Frank @ 204: Not sure what you mean by pure or impure either. If we cease immigration we will, over time, become pure? Sorry, maybe it’s just that I haven’t had coffee.

Wheeler: Don’t ignore the question.

I’ll give you that some, maybe most, South Asian immigrants are hostile and dangerous, but it’s a serious question: will you tolerate those who are not hostile to you?

You have yet to meet one, but would you?
207 Comment by Kirt Higdon on 6 September 2007:

I’m sorry to hear of anyone committing suicide but to describe an Irish American killing himself because he was “forced” to train his hindu replacement as an example of hindu aggression is way beyond ludicrous. If this represents the qualities of “European” man then that “race” better get an infusion of alien “blood” very quickly if they are to survive. Anyone who does not want to train their replacement can just quit their job early and start looking for the next one. Some of my kids have lost jobs several times and always bounced back to find new and better ones. Happily they were able to overcome the weakness of their Irish/German/Anglo-Saxon/French genes. I might also note that most Americans consider hindus to be among the wimpiest of the wimpy. But apparently they have our resident white nationalists terrified of their aggression.
208 Comment by J. on 6 September 2007:

“… Anyone who does not want to train their replacement can just quit their job early and start looking for the next one. …”

Of course he can quit on his own.

However, the problem is that he then forfeits the unemployment benefits!

That is the law.

I believe that the present maximum benefit rate is close to $600 per week (depends on your earnings), and lasts for a very minimum of six months (State) and a maximum of one year and three months (including State and Federal extensions, depending in which time of year you start, which State you live in, and other factors).

Thus, unless he is independently wealthy (or is very young, or has a very nice daddy such as apparently you are), he cannot afford to just quit.

For those of you who are not familiar with how it works in the United States, unemployment insurance is not “welfare”, but _insurance_, where the mandatory premiums are deducted from each of your paychecks by your employer, by law. It is your money.
209 Comment by J. on 7 September 2007:

P.S.

Of course, while living on unemployment benefits, one must look for another job, that is the idea.

However, the job search may take many months – or even years – a tough proposition if you are older, or are very specialized, or – and that is the point of this discussion thread, isn’t it? – you are competing with skilled immigrants in your profession…
210 Comment by Kirt Higdon on 7 September 2007:

J, the point of the discussion was not the way unemployment benefits work nor the necessity of competing with skilled immigrants in your profession. It was whether or not being hired to replace a native constitutes “aggression” on the part of the immigrant. If this is true, then being hired to replace anyone constitutes aggression on the part of the new hire. Note that the fearful Mr. Wheeler concedes that the hindu was acting legally. The point also is whether or not committing suicide within a week is an appropriate response to losing your job and whether terrified ranting and raving is an appropriate response to the presence of hindus in our society.

The company I worked for hired dozens of hindu programmers on H-1 visas in the run-up to Y2K and then released them all once they had done their job. None of our native programmers were replaced. I have known a lot of white programmers over the years and not known one who lost his job to an immigrant or expressed any fear of hindus. Clearly I must know some more intelligent and less hysterical white people than Mr. Wheeler does.
211 Comment by J. on 7 September 2007:

I regret to note that Mr. Brian Wheeler is correct here. A mere choice of term “aggression”, related to personal perception (and who can blame one who is on the receiving end?), is of course irrelevant.

At essence is the large employment picture we are facing, a brutal competition for jobs (bare survival), not only with the outside world (“globalization”) – but now within our very own borders (due to ill controlled immigration). It certainly is not about “winning an argument”, but rather about the pigeonhole principle, with less pigeonholes than pigeons. Anyone who has been there knows.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.
212 Comment by J. on 7 September 2007:

P.S.

On second thought, the term “aggression” is fully warranted here, very much so indeed, if the word is entitled to bear its meaning.
213 Comment by Brian Wheeler on 7 September 2007:

J

I suupose that when slave views the institution of slavery as an act of agression against his or her humanity it is a personal obsevation and therefor irrelevant. The same can be said for the WASP wage slaves in carniege’s stell mills. Right
214 Comment by Brian Wheeler on 7 September 2007:

That should read Carniege and Fricks steal mills.

Depriving Native Born White Americans the benefits of a severe labor scarcity, which the 1965 immigration reform act has surely done,has transfered power completly away from Native Born White Workers to Mr. Higdons cockroach friends in mamgement.

The goal is to drive Native Born White Americans into wage slavery..which exist on a conituum with chatel slavery. And as the Southern apologists for slavery-Fitzshugh-argued persuavisly can be actually worse than chatel slavery.

For more examples of hindu LEGAL IMMIGRANT agression agianst Native Born White workers, check at the Victims Wall over at Brenda Walkers website.

Only a fool would deny that opposition to the importation of hindu LEGAL IMMIGRANT tech scab workers is growing with each passing year.

I have sisters who are RNs. Every time Native Born White Nurses attetmpt to wage a succesfull strike for higher wages and better working conditions, management goes out and brings in the phillipino and hindu strike breaking job shops that are located in NJ. This is most defintely an act of aggresion by post-1965 non-white LEGAL immigrants against Native Born White Women.
215 Comment by J. on 7 September 2007:

“… I suppose that when slave views the institution of slavery as an act of aggression against his or her humanity it is a personal observation and therefor irrelevant. The same can be said for the WASP wage slaves in Carnegie’s steel mills. Right …”

Mr. Wheeler, as I said, I do stand corrected, your use of the term aggression is quite appropriate.

Trying to avoid offending the absent sensibilities of “the other party” here is what is moot. One meets many likes of them in course of one’s professional life. The point of my earlier posts was to inform the general public, certainly not enter “an argument”, I leave that to John Cleese.

Incidentally, your prior entomological classification of the breed is highly accurate indeed.

J.
216 Comment by Brian Wheeler on 7 September 2007:

One mo’ time. It should read Carniege and Frick’s Steel Mills. Though “steal mills” mat not be too bad of a mistake,for Carnige and Frick’s Steel Mills did in fact steal something very important from Northeastern WASP mill workers. Carnige and Frick’s Steel Mills robbed Northeastern WASP mill workers of their lives.

May they both burn in hell for an eternity along with Ronald REagan, GEorge W Bush and the Clinton power couple.
217 Comment by Frank on 7 September 2007:

Jeff,

Frank @ 204: Not sure what you mean by pure or impure either. If we cease immigration we will, over time, become pure? Sorry, maybe it’s just that I haven’t had coffee.

what do you think race is but a separated gene pool? We’re all descended from Adam and Eve. The further back the common heritage of the nation, the stronger its ties to its ancestral traditions including its religion. When the Atlantians mixed, they lost their way and became corrupt; I read it as not so much that the alien blood was inferior but that it didn’t identify as strongly as being Atlantian and also perhaps identified with the alien component. You’ve never heard anyone speak of the “myth of common origin” that binds a nation? If a “nation” can trace its ancestry back 40K years but the bulk of the population can’t trace back further than 20K years, that first 20K years isn’t really the heritage of the same nation. It won’t identify closely with it as a result.

Whites split off what, 40K or 80K years ago? I read all sorts of numbers and the truth is we’re all but clueless (the numbers seem all but unfounded.) Well, give them another 40K years, and you’ve got yourself a more unique race. If a few Neanderthals slipped in in the past, you can’t pick them out now. Racial traits are nothing more than biological traditions. The culture or environment or random chance chose a different evolutionary path (we do “evolve” in a sense though complex genes cannot come into being – the reality of evolution must be reconciled with popular Christianity, btw. And reality does not contradict the truth.)

Frank @ 203: Not sure I understand your question? Which uncultured newborn should one raise?

If I have two innocents, I would say “both”.

Resources permit you to only raise one. You have a duty to your blood relation – your child.

If you lived among the starving in Africa, you wouldn’t choose to help, over your own child, random children, even those smarter or more beautiful. Anyway, if seeking to do your duty you’d probably seek out to help those of your community and nation for the most part; they’ll always need help.

Anyway, if taken too far it becomes absurd: there are only so many resources available. But politically race within a nation is significant. Also, the nation is a gene pool; it’s an organism though each part must spend most of its time and effort looking after its own while not significantly harming the nation and ideally helping it a little here and there – voluntarily working for its betterment as well as for the religion, including sending out missionaries.

I welcome independent thinking, and I don’t pretend to be a sage. Hopefully disagreements are not the result of misunderstandings though. With that I’m off to sleep.
218 Comment by Frank on 8 September 2007:

Regarding tech work,

I used to be a computer engineer. Why did I change majors (have since graduated)? It’s not because I had any trouble with engineering. It’s because the wages dropped.

Regarding Hindus,

I met many Indians of a variety of sects, including Islam. I tended to get along with them very well for whatever reason. Heh, one Muslim Indian introduced me to David Duke, though I’m not a fan of Duke I think it’s funny that an Indian Muslim reads him. Admittedly the Muslim didn’t think much of Jews, but I’m not Jewish so that didn’t bother me one bit. We simply found other things to speak of.

Regarding mixed marriages,

God has a purpose for each of us. Despite it being problematic for some, I’m not about to alter a political ideology that seems to provide oasis of orderly freedom amidst the chaos and slavery of the world. However God loves all of his children, and there’s no reason a child of mixed ancestry can’t serve the Lord, be happy, and be saved.
219 Comment by Brian Wheeler on 8 September 2007:

To read about more acts a hindu aggression against against Native Born White Americans go the Victims Wall over at Brenda Walker’s web site. REad and weep as they say.

Right after 9/11, there was a front page story in the NYT about how almost immediately after 9/11, cockroach H-1 B visa LEGAL IMMIGRANTS were recieving annoymous hate email from their Native Born White co-workers. It got so bad, that tech companies went out and hired clinical psychologists to provide therapy to their little hindu darlings.

This morning a cockraoach hindu couple cut ahead of me took the parking space I was waiting for. I took great pleasure in telling them to go back to the toilet bowl India.
220 Comment by J. on 8 September 2007:

“… I took great pleasure in telling them to go back to the toilet bowl India. …”

FLUSHHHHH!!!……….
221 Comment by J. on 8 September 2007:

P.S.

Apropos of that “most numerous world democracy”:

http://animal.discovery.com/news/briefs/20060327/cockroach.html
222 Comment by Frank on 8 September 2007:

Brian, Indians are an extremely diverse lot. I find southern Italians to tend to be quite rude and inconsiderate, but I don’t expect every European to be the same way.

Anyway, you seem certain about what you don’t like. But it might be productive for Americans in general (I don’t know you well enough to comment on you directly of course) to ponder on just what they wish to move towards.

Is conservatism grumpy, unfocused anger at the modern world? Or does it offer an alternative and hope for the future? If we love our people, our cultural roots, and our religion, we should be able to derive a goal to strive for.

If liberalism is the ideology of suicide, perhaps conservatives should counter it with a reason for the West to live.

If movements can only be built on greed and hate, then they’ll always be hijacked and misdirected. We don’t need coalitions of fellow haters and greedies; we need a movement towards a clear goal. We need to create not destroy. If modernism is all about destruction and short term individual pleasures at the expense of others and those who come after, then grumpy old men who do nothing but offer criticisms of the moderns are little better than modernists.
223 Comment by J. on 8 September 2007:

“… Indians are an extremely diverse lot …”

You got at least one thing right. From

http://animal.discovery.com/news/briefs/20060327/cockroach.html
:

“There are at least 4,000 known species of cockroach.”

And, as you say:

“For cockroaches, it seems, cooperation comes naturally.”
224 Comment by Brian Wheeler on 8 September 2007:

Frank

You are missing the crucial point. The cockroaches among our own kind import the cockroaches from the toilet bowl India to terrorize White Americans into accepting dehumanizing wage slavery. If they didn’t import these scab worker cockraoches from India, poet would be transfered back to White workers away from the bossman.

I really enjoyed telling these two hindu LEGAL IMMIGRANT cockroaches to F OFF
225 Comment by Brian Wheeler on 8 September 2007:

I don’t hate the Hindus living in India.
226 Comment by Frank on 8 September 2007:

I understand quite well how they artificially lower our wages and encourage Americans to pursue other occupations. And the posts of these skilled immigrants comes with a fair degree of influence; will they act for their personal gain at the expense of America? I not only want the inflow stopped; I want them shipped home as well though, perhaps in a dishonest manner, I rarely voice such sentiments.

The Indians I’ve befriended all knew I had nothing against them personally, but that I did wish for them to leave. It’s a political problem though; it’s up to our masters to decide. Massa Bush says they stay.

—

Quote taken from Richard Weaver. “Two Types of American Individualism.” The Southern Essays of Richard Weaver

Quoted clause from Randolph’s second and true will:

I give my ex’or a sum not exceeding eight thousand dollars, or as much thereof as may be necessary to transport and settle said slaves to and in some other State or territory of the U.S., giving to all above the age of forty not less than ten acres of land each.

Later quote directly from Richard Weaver:

Then Judge William Leigh, one of the executors, bought 3200 acres of land in Mercer County, Ohio, with the object of settling 400 freed Negroes upon small farms. But the Midwest was at that time very anti-Negro, and the inhabitants of the county forcibly prevented the Negroes from taking up residence.

Two points:

1. It’s interesting that Randolph specified for his freed slaves to be settled in another state or territory.

2. The free men of Mercer County were able to refuse these immigrants. America has become so centralised that we are not free to do the same. To emphasise that we are not free: we are practically slaves, and we know little of how to take care of ourselves – look at the US savings rate. If aliens are to be expelled using the current system, it must be with the use of some terrible state power which cannot be trusted.

The plan seems to be to make the problem so severe in America that in cannot be righted. I think those who wish to see America destroyed do not have a vision of the future; they simply wish America destroyed, especially if there’s an easy buck to be made in the process. Love of nation is “racist,” religion is deception; that is the view of the modern. I wonder if the existence of nationalism and faith don’t remind them of their emptiness; they are perhaps envious as well as afraid of what they do not understand. So, with that the enemy is understood somewhat.

While the federal government and the current American elites are to be marginalized, Americans should be wary of populism and libertarianism. Such movements might be useful (politically expedient), but they shouldn’t be embraced. Also, I recall reading in Chronicles that the US state is to be defended against globalism, though ideally it would be decentralised. So, the federal government too might be useful in defense against globalism, but again not to be embraced.

I often wonder what others truly believe. It’s fine to be dishonest with the enemy, but I think too many end up fooling themselves and their own. A true right wing movement should be honest with itself. It’s the nature of the enemy to manipulate for individual gain. Anyway so to those who reject what I say, I challenge you to present something better.

—

I don’t hate the Hindus living in India.

Though I again shouldn’t tell you what to do, I’ll just say a Christian shouldn’t hate. I suspect I want them out as strongly as do you though.
227 Comment by Kirt Higdon on 8 September 2007:

I guess road rage can be therapy. I’m happy it made you feel good to tell off that hindu couple, Mr. Wheeler. I wouldn’t want you to commit suicide over losing a parking space to hindu aggression.
228 Comment by WD on 8 September 2007:

Re Dr. Duke

Exposing the liars is all that matters. If you don’t listen to all sides, you are not seeking truth. Dr. David Duke’s world wide best selling book “Jewish Supremacism” is free to download at The Pirate Bay dot com in MP3 format. While this free spoken word book is several hours long, it is broken up into individual files each about 30 minutes in length. Listen to it during lunch and see if you or your friends can find any lies at all. While listening to Dr. Duke, one comes to understand that he is not like the controlled mass media would have you believe. Dr. Duke is an extremely intelligent, highly educated thoughtful man. Dr. Duke narrates this free copy of his book during the recent Israeli war on Lebanon and this timely commentary is extremely insightful. The Jews have much to answer for.
http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3541348/Dr._David_Duke_-_Spoken_Word_-_Jewish_Supremacism
NO war for Israel!
229 Comment by J. on 8 September 2007:

“227″! Domestic cockroach strikes again!…
230 Comment by Frank on 9 September 2007:

Re: 228, what does that have to do at all with this discussion? I might have rambled on a bit, but at least I remained on topic.

WD, It’s disrespectful to advertise on another website like that. If you want to help, live an honorable life and refrain from such spamming.
231 Comment by Brian Wheeler on 9 September 2007:

Frank

What does it have to do with the topic of this thread? Everything. This would not be occuring were not for the passage of the 1965 immigration act which also the bossman to import an unlimited of scab workers form India and other non-white nations.

The economic dispossession of the majority Native Born White American population goess hand-in-hand with the racial dispossession of the majority Native Born White American population.
232 Comment by Frank on 9 September 2007:

My reply number 230 was solely in response to reply number 228.

I was replying to the post made by “WD” and not one by Brian Wheeler.

I apologise for the murkiness of my post number 230.
233 Comment by WD on 9 September 2007:

I certainly did not intend to “disrespect” this site. My post was not an “advertisement” for The Pirate Bay, nor for the profit of Dr. Duke. I am not affiliated with either of these entities. I felt that this free resource that I “informed” the readers of this site about is vitally important to all thinking people. This free book is quite shocking and it was a wakeup call for me. Dr. Duke was mentioned on this site and I only wanted to share this important information. If I am still in error, then I can only beg forgiveness for the intrusion and I will trouble you no more.
Thank you for your time.
NO war for Israel!
234 Comment by Frank on 10 September 2007:

I’m sure you meant well I’m only a reader of Chronicles btw, but I just didn’t see how the war was relevant here. I was only trying to show you that posting about a book on a the Iraqi War in a writeback to an article on immigration is akin to spam. I’ve made the same mistake before in the past though.

Most here would agree that Israel has some to do with our war in the Middle East btw, but it’s America’s own corruption that has given them such influence. They’re simply acting in the best interests of their own people as we should be for ours.
235 Comment by F. on 10 September 2007:

“Most here would agree that Israel has some to do with our war in the Middle East btw”

Yeah, “some to do”. We were all born yesterday, and so have no clue what that might possibly be.

“but it’s America’s own corruption that has given them such influence.”

Nostra culpa, right. (“btw”, isn’t there a Shia sub-sect that practices self-flagellation? I had always beleived they lived in wretched Iran.)

“They’re simply acting in the best interests of their own people”

That’s right. Quite “simply”, as you say. Only “in the best interests of their own people” (here we are on the same page). Such as, acquiring Palestine, Middle East, U.S.A. – and beyond. Of course, ruling the whole World by proxy requires some petty sacrifices (such as American lives, not only in N.Y.C., but also in Iraq, Iran – and beyond).

“as we should be for ours.”

Here, btw, we very obviously part our ways.
236 Comment by Boyan K. on 11 September 2007:

Jimmy,

thanks for the (MUCH-NEEDED!) corrections you’ve made (195) in regard to your previous comment (191). Yes, any comparison of Serbs with Nazis would not be only “too extreme”, it would be also an outrageous rape of my nation’s history, knowing that the Serbs were the FIRST ONES to rise against Nazis in occupied Europe and to have the greatest percentage of resistance figthers (practically, the whole people) in entire Nazi-occupied part of the continent. And up to one million Serbs died in Nazi retributions, raids and concentration camps (the most infamous, Jasenovac, held by Croatian Nazis, where more than a half a million Serbs, along with tens of thousands of Jews and Gypsies, died in the most horrid imaginable circumstances). If you’re looking for a Nazi-conncection, try with our neighbors. I’m not playing the Hatfield-McCoy here (nor trying to insult anyone), but that is the history, like it or not. It’s all in the books, most of the written by non-Serb WW2 historians.

Plus, there is no such thing as “white nationalism” as a visible political platform among Serbs. Even the most “right-wing”, “far right-nationalist” party in Serbia is (as we speak) being the most popular among Gypsy/Roma-community, believe it or not.
And Milosevic himself was an old school-leftist, without a drop of any racist sentiment (unlike, for example, his Croatian counterpart, Franjo Tudjman, a vicious Holocaust denier, or Alija Izetbegovic, Bosnian Muslim leader, an ex-SS trooper, turned into an Islamic fundamentalist). Or just check the data on ethnic diversity of Serbia, and compare it with the other ex-Yu states.

I’m not enaging into a Balkan discussion here, which would hopelessly turn this topic away from its initial subject. Just trying to help you with the facts and figures you’ve mentioned. You don’t have to believe me or take my word on anything, but please, next time check the facts (on Google or elsewhere) before labeling the first European anti-fascist nation in such inappropriate manner.
237 Comment by Boyan K. on 11 September 2007:

“It’s all in the books, most of the written by non-Serb WW2 historians.”

This should read: It’s all in the books, most of them written by non-Serb WW2 historians.

“conncections” are, of course, “connections”

There must be dozens of typos left, but I’m giving up. An edit-version would be great on this site.
238 Comment by Frank on 12 September 2007:

F.,

We can’t blame the Jews for all of our problems.

I’m from the South, and I can tell you that though blacks aren’t as intelligent they would do much better if they quit blaming the white man and sought out better jobs.

—

That’s right. Quite “simply”, as you say. Only “in the best interests of their own people” (here we are on the same page). Such as, acquiring Palestine, Middle East, U.S.A. – and beyond. Of course, ruling the whole World by proxy requires some petty sacrifices (such as American lives, not only in N.Y.C., but also in Iraq, Iran – and beyond).

“as we should be for ours.”

Here, btw, we very obviously part our ways.

I meant that Western nations should generally act in their best interests as do the Jews. This is what healthy nations do.

However, I stated previously in this thread that Christians should act within Christian morality.
239 Comment by Leon Haller on 13 September 2007:

First, I left only one post above, #198. An imposter left post #202 under my name. Web-page editor please take note.

Second, why is it that NO ONE on this site EVER addresses the substance of my consistently similar writebacks wrt the problem of race?

Again, for Mr. Willoughby and others who just don’t “get it”, why don’t you try answering my question (variants of which I have been posting for months or maybe years on this site): how will traditional America, and by extension Western Civ, survive if whites should become a minority in our own historic territories?

And second, if race, specifically the non-white immigration invasion and colonization of the West, is not the most important issue of our time, what is?

I call all discussion of EVERY OTHER ISSUE BESIDES RACE ‘treason’ (it is also arguably sinful from a Christian perspective) not because there are not many other political and social issues of importance, to me and all other conservatives, but because the racial invasion seems to be the only issue/policy whose deleterious effects we can never undo (well, we could undo even it … but not without a bunch of Christian blowhards blathering about the alleged dangers to their ’souls’ from executing the necessary actions; funny how an earlier generation of Christians didn’t offer up much objection – no worries about the souls of the WW2 generation – to the militarily superfluous mass-incineration of a million German women and children in the Spring of 1945, but hey – killing white people is fine for the Christers, it’s just the coloreds, who are ever so respectful and considerate of us, that we need to fawn over until the end of time … for the sake of our souls …..).

But because the CHRONICLES crowd can’t stomach the measures of racial cleansing and repatriation which will be necessary if our race and therefore civilization is to survive in perpetuity, it seems to be all the more vital that we mobilize ALL our energies now to stopping non-white immigration, as well as to engendering a new racial consciousness among whites, who will need it to assert their own cultural prerogatives in the public square (and we must assert ourselves, or our far more assertive racial enemies / competitors will own our future, and our descendants will ultimately be genetically absorbed into the mongrel morass).

Discussing or agitating on other issues is functionally, and sometimes intentionally, treasonous because such merely serves to distract us from the real issue, and therefore prevents our operating with maximal efficiency, and possibly endangers the ultimate agenda (survival of the West). Suppose Course A is the most effective way to achieve a certain national security objective, but the SecDef vigorously argues for Course B, which he knows will be far more costly and may possibly even jeopardize the chance of overall success. Can it not be said that SecDef is behaving treasonously (of course, we would need more details to establish whether he was really a traitor, or merely stupid)?

If America and the West were not being invaded and occupied by the Third World, then obviously our white racial survival would not be at issue, and conservatives could frolic in other policy vineyards to their hearts’ content. But we are under demographic attack. If we do not repulse that attack, then the end of the West will be certain. If these facts and prognostications are (empirically) true, then it follows that persons who agitate against any issues of lesser importance (abortion, taxes, regulations, etc.) are effectively reducing the chances of Occidental survival, whether deliberately or not (ie, out of stupidity). I call such people traitors.
240 Comment by Frank on 18 September 2007:

Mr. Hader,

If you don’t read the others’ posts, you can’t expect to find what you’re looking for in them.

Anyway, the problem many modern Christians seem to have is with separating the spiritual and political worlds. In the Lord’s eyes we’re all equally His children, but such is not the case with us in the material world of his creation.

Off topic: Some (atheistic) pagans argue that Christianity is dysgenic, and this too is simply not true. We can help the weak and the poor without helping them to reproduce… The evolution obsessed (who are among the most leftist – love of evolution is little different from creative destructives or perpetual revolutionaries, though I want to say the latter are pursuing a final world order.)

The OT bit doesn’t apply to you, Mr. Hader. I simply think it belongs with the rest of this post.

—

Also, if anyone actually bothers to read my posts , it should be clear that I do not believe all but race should be ignored. Without the tradition, culture, and religion to guide us, we cannot hope to save our nation. Ignoring everything else is profoundly stupid. Also, of course the nation exists to serve the Lord.

That said, I agree that the pending war with Iran and similar issues should be of little concern relative to the American demographic crisis. We are not responsible for the emperor’s crimes against Iran. Saving our own is our duty, and we should wish to do nothing less.

—

An addendum in case Mr. Hader or someone else actually reads my post and can benefit…, since the fed is working to destroy America, its power should be reduced. Since abortion is immoral and corrupts us, it should be opposed. To ignore them totally is as stupid as hoisting up one at the expense of all else. Those who sacrifice the immigration issue for abortion are failing to do their duty and should thusly be shamed. Such males should not be recognised as men. That said, David Duke who promotes abortion because of its demographic results is a monster and should not be recognised as human (meaning he should not be respected. He should not be harmed of course.) We can oppose immigration and support repatriation without embracing murder, including abortion; violence; hate; or other un-Christian acts. For the Lord of the Rings fans: reject the ring of power – it only seems to offer what you want. Embracing abortion will destroy your nation.

Mr. Hader, read Race and the American Prospect which can be purchased at the occidental quarterly.

Sincerely,

Little Frankie (who fears his posts in the Writebacks have never made a positive difference )
241 Pingback by Chronicles: A Magazine of American Culture | Your Home for Traditional Conservatism » Alien Country, Indeed on 14 December 2007:

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