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	<title>Comments on: Iraq: Stability or &#8220;Democracy&#8221;?</title>
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	<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/08/29/iraq-stability-or-democracy/</link>
	<description>Your home for traditional conservatism.</description>
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		<title>By: Bill Gardner</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/08/29/iraq-stability-or-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-14837</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Sep 2007 21:35:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=298#comment-14837</guid>
		<description>&quot;There was a time when I would have agreed with you, but now I think we need to rethink our weeniethink.&quot; -posted above

A friend of mine wrote a story entitled &#039;American Cartoon&#039; in which it is obvious to all but the protagonist that even his in earnest predicting, to the right people in N.Y. society with whom and for whom (while employed) he is working, the inevitable calamities they are heading for on this present course, gets one/him fired. Shhh. Because these people either are (or at least perceive themselves to be) insulated to the point, that they can only benefit further in terms of wealth and power if the calamities do in fact occur, or, if on the other hand they don&#039;t well, what a pleasant &#039;surprise&#039;. It&#039;s really a sort of seven of one, half-dozen of the other.

The protagonist&#039;s wife is aware of this, since she is an heiress in this society and to this world, one of the few actually privileged, like european royalty, americans. However she knows there is nothing she can do about it either, but does not wish to &#039;wake up&#039; her husband. She sees him as not necessarily weak, or dumb in the overly naive sense, but perhaps one of the remaining decent or good souls in the world, so that&#039;s in fact refreshing to her, who wants for nothing else. No doubt had she needed him to be otherwise, he may have been perceived by her as insufficiently mercenary. While Her current theory is let him find out, whatever it is he finds out. That all of what her husband predicted while emplolyed by his wife&#039;s ilk, prior to being let go has now come to pass of course means nothing to his former employers, that&#039;s the point.

The largest theme in the story is don&#039;t chase what you can&#039;t catch. With regard to the theme the last question remaining as a result of this contemporary tale (if one were looking out the window today) is how many of those either in the story or within the story&#039;s implied population will Acutually find themselves included within the inextricable confines of the theme...Who haven&#039;t experienced it already within the story itself. Ah, only time will tell. It&#039;s a romantic comedy. But it&#039;s infinite too e.g. (here&#039;s the story but then...)...it continues on out here. ? So who&#039;all are chasing what they CANNOT catch? Ah! 

The unwritten plot then, as it were - thins. I suppose it&#039;s got to be written to &#039;thicken&#039; ?! .......... Right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"There was a time when I would have agreed with you, but now I think we need to rethink our weeniethink." -posted above</p>
<p>A friend of mine wrote a story entitled 'American Cartoon' in which it is obvious to all but the protagonist that even his in earnest predicting, to the right people in N.Y. society with whom and for whom (while employed) he is working, the inevitable calamities they are heading for on this present course, gets one/him fired. Shhh. Because these people either are (or at least perceive themselves to be) insulated to the point, that they can only benefit further in terms of wealth and power if the calamities do in fact occur, or, if on the other hand they don't well, what a pleasant 'surprise'. It's really a sort of seven of one, half-dozen of the other.</p>
<p>The protagonist's wife is aware of this, since she is an heiress in this society and to this world, one of the few actually privileged, like european royalty, americans. However she knows there is nothing she can do about it either, but does not wish to 'wake up' her husband. She sees him as not necessarily weak, or dumb in the overly naive sense, but perhaps one of the remaining decent or good souls in the world, so that's in fact refreshing to her, who wants for nothing else. No doubt had she needed him to be otherwise, he may have been perceived by her as insufficiently mercenary. While Her current theory is let him find out, whatever it is he finds out. That all of what her husband predicted while emplolyed by his wife's ilk, prior to being let go has now come to pass of course means nothing to his former employers, that's the point.</p>
<p>The largest theme in the story is don't chase what you can't catch. With regard to the theme the last question remaining as a result of this contemporary tale (if one were looking out the window today) is how many of those either in the story or within the story's implied population will Acutually find themselves included within the inextricable confines of the theme...Who haven't experienced it already within the story itself. Ah, only time will tell. It's a romantic comedy. But it's infinite too e.g. (here's the story but then...)...it continues on out here. ? So who'all are chasing what they CANNOT catch? Ah! </p>
<p>The unwritten plot then, as it were - thins. I suppose it's got to be written to 'thicken' ?! .......... Right?</p>
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		<title>By: Johan Dieckmann</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/08/29/iraq-stability-or-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-14502</link>
		<dc:creator>Johan Dieckmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 08:24:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=298#comment-14502</guid>
		<description>(Re. #13)


&quot;... All in favor, say “aye”. ...&quot;

Aye.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Re. #13)</p>
<p>"... All in favor, say “aye”. ..."</p>
<p>Aye.</p>
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		<title>By: robert m. peters</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/08/29/iraq-stability-or-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-14463</link>
		<dc:creator>robert m. peters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 02:57:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=298#comment-14463</guid>
		<description>In have viewed this war as immoral by any just war standard, unlawful by constitutional standards and not winnable by any rational military standard, i.e. third-generation warfare -us- versus fourth-generation warfare -them; however, the French gave us a model form getting out of stupidity in Indo-China - not a model that would lead to a desired outcome from the French perspective but a model which would save face for the French.  I am not sure that we can cobble together such a plan.

I have predicted all along, that the current chaos, although not the most desired outcome on the neo-con agenda, was calculated as likely, hence, the power enclaves built to house thousands of U.S. troops over the long-term in a very hostile environment.

I am personally for an ordered withdrawal while it can still be done, the devil take the hind most; that, however, is not likely to occur.  One scenario which I hope our planners are calculating is that a strike on Iran, which I believe is in the works, could produce a massive Iranian conventional invasion.  While they would loose thousands of men, they could catch us in a position in which we are cut off from supplies and routes of escape.  Ultimately with our superior air and naval power we would prevail, but the army on the ground would be spent with no real reserves save for conscription.  One needs to note that the British are all but finished in southeastern Iraq.  Perhaps the Shiites are &quot;standing down&quot; to avoid unnecessary confrontation with the U.S. and their ironic Sunni allies.  During this &quot;stand down,&quot; they will consolidate their hold in the southeast and strengthen their positions therein, ready to be the vanguard of an Iranian force moving into the region and ready to cut off our supply routes and our avenues of land escape.  One certainly hopes that our military planners have thought through this and are not so arrogant or intimidated by their political bosses as not to have executable countermeasures planned and ready.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In have viewed this war as immoral by any just war standard, unlawful by constitutional standards and not winnable by any rational military standard, i.e. third-generation warfare -us- versus fourth-generation warfare -them; however, the French gave us a model form getting out of stupidity in Indo-China - not a model that would lead to a desired outcome from the French perspective but a model which would save face for the French.  I am not sure that we can cobble together such a plan.</p>
<p>I have predicted all along, that the current chaos, although not the most desired outcome on the neo-con agenda, was calculated as likely, hence, the power enclaves built to house thousands of U.S. troops over the long-term in a very hostile environment.</p>
<p>I am personally for an ordered withdrawal while it can still be done, the devil take the hind most; that, however, is not likely to occur.  One scenario which I hope our planners are calculating is that a strike on Iran, which I believe is in the works, could produce a massive Iranian conventional invasion.  While they would loose thousands of men, they could catch us in a position in which we are cut off from supplies and routes of escape.  Ultimately with our superior air and naval power we would prevail, but the army on the ground would be spent with no real reserves save for conscription.  One needs to note that the British are all but finished in southeastern Iraq.  Perhaps the Shiites are "standing down" to avoid unnecessary confrontation with the U.S. and their ironic Sunni allies.  During this "stand down," they will consolidate their hold in the southeast and strengthen their positions therein, ready to be the vanguard of an Iranian force moving into the region and ready to cut off our supply routes and our avenues of land escape.  One certainly hopes that our military planners have thought through this and are not so arrogant or intimidated by their political bosses as not to have executable countermeasures planned and ready.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicholas G.P. MOSES</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/08/29/iraq-stability-or-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-14427</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas G.P. MOSES</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 22:53:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=298#comment-14427</guid>
		<description>&quot;So many Americans these days seem hostile to so much of what the United States has always stood for&quot;

Looking at the devastating impact on global affairs of 231 years of American independence, I&#039;m not so sure there is much NOT to be hostile toward.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"So many Americans these days seem hostile to so much of what the United States has always stood for"</p>
<p>Looking at the devastating impact on global affairs of 231 years of American independence, I'm not so sure there is much NOT to be hostile toward.</p>
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		<title>By: Yankee Doodle</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/08/29/iraq-stability-or-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-14421</link>
		<dc:creator>Yankee Doodle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 22:01:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=298#comment-14421</guid>
		<description>&quot;Per weeniethink, democratic government = pro-American.&quot;

So many Americans these days seem hostile to so much of what the United States has always stood for; many Europeans, too.

There was a time when I would have agreed with you, but now I think we need to rethink our weeniethink.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"Per weeniethink, democratic government = pro-American."</p>
<p>So many Americans these days seem hostile to so much of what the United States has always stood for; many Europeans, too.</p>
<p>There was a time when I would have agreed with you, but now I think we need to rethink our weeniethink.</p>
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		<title>By: G.S.</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/08/29/iraq-stability-or-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-14350</link>
		<dc:creator>G.S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:58:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=298#comment-14350</guid>
		<description>&quot;When praising the virtues of spreading democracy in the Middle East Mr. Bush would be well advised to keep asking himself, if the project’s actual or potential beneficiaries are democrats for *us*.&quot;

Of course, none of the political weenies in the D.C. establishment is engaged with reality or reason closely enough to even recognize such a question if it were put to them point-blank -- much less bring it up on their own.  

Per weeniethink, democratic government = pro-American.

Another example of how deep moral flaws such as narcissism (*NATURALLY the majority of people in any &amp; every country will admire &amp; adore America, if only liberated from their dictators and given the chance*) hobbles the elites&#039; ability to engage in real-world politics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"When praising the virtues of spreading democracy in the Middle East Mr. Bush would be well advised to keep asking himself, if the project’s actual or potential beneficiaries are democrats for *us*."</p>
<p>Of course, none of the political weenies in the D.C. establishment is engaged with reality or reason closely enough to even recognize such a question if it were put to them point-blank -- much less bring it up on their own.  </p>
<p>Per weeniethink, democratic government = pro-American.</p>
<p>Another example of how deep moral flaws such as narcissism (*NATURALLY the majority of people in any &amp; every country will admire &amp; adore America, if only liberated from their dictators and given the chance*) hobbles the elites' ability to engage in real-world politics.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Wilder</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/08/29/iraq-stability-or-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-14342</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Wilder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:29:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=298#comment-14342</guid>
		<description>Back to Dr. Trifkovic&#039;s subject, the GAO report on the &quot;progress&quot; in Iraq is, unsurprisingly, decidedly grim.  It would appear that Dr. Trifkovic is correct in surmising that the criticism of Maliki is to creat a fall guy for the lack of success in the surge.

Meanwhile, a Marine sergeant is going on trial accused of leading his troops in murdering 19 women and children.  While terrible things have happened in the past, this war (and the Army&#039;s lowering of recruitment standards to include criminals) will only foster more perversion of our armed forces.  We need to withdraw them to whatever extent feasible, before we lose entirely the type of Army we want to have as a free nation (using even a broad definition of &quot;free&quot;).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back to Dr. Trifkovic's subject, the GAO report on the "progress" in Iraq is, unsurprisingly, decidedly grim.  It would appear that Dr. Trifkovic is correct in surmising that the criticism of Maliki is to creat a fall guy for the lack of success in the surge.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, a Marine sergeant is going on trial accused of leading his troops in murdering 19 women and children.  While terrible things have happened in the past, this war (and the Army's lowering of recruitment standards to include criminals) will only foster more perversion of our armed forces.  We need to withdraw them to whatever extent feasible, before we lose entirely the type of Army we want to have as a free nation (using even a broad definition of "free").</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Willoughby</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/08/29/iraq-stability-or-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-14254</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Willoughby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 04:55:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=298#comment-14254</guid>
		<description>Then allow me to quote my father by saying &quot;Kill them all, and let God sort them out&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then allow me to quote my father by saying "Kill them all, and let God sort them out".</p>
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		<title>By: GJ Tryon</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/08/29/iraq-stability-or-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-14202</link>
		<dc:creator>GJ Tryon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Aug 2007 23:40:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=298#comment-14202</guid>
		<description>re:“chuck out the establishment.” Where the establishment goes, the Lobby goes, and it ain&#039;t going anywhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re:“chuck out the establishment.” Where the establishment goes, the Lobby goes, and it ain't going anywhere.</p>
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		<title>By: Yankee Doodle</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/08/29/iraq-stability-or-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-14191</link>
		<dc:creator>Yankee Doodle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Aug 2007 21:02:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=298#comment-14191</guid>
		<description>&quot;chuck out the establishment&quot;

All in favor, say &quot;aye&quot;.

Aye!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"chuck out the establishment"</p>
<p>All in favor, say "aye".</p>
<p>Aye!</p>
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