The Perils of Kosovo’s Independence
Italy’s political forces of all color and hue are alarmed by the possibility of Kosovo’s proposed independence even though some prefer to pretend otherwise, Alleanza Nazionale Senator Alfredo Mantica, deputy chairman of the Commission on Foreign Affairs, told me in Rome earlier this month. Mantica, a veteran politician who was Italy’s deputy foreign minister in Berlusconi’s coalition government, favors a pause of several months “to reflect on this issue, and to consider the consequences of opening what may well prove to be Pandora’s box.” Mantica has no doubt that Kosovo’s independence would establish an important precedent, regardless of various assurances from Washington and Brussels to the contrary. He fears that this precedent would have the potential to destabilize Europe: the “right to self-determination” would be invoked by every dissatisfied minority, especially in the eastern half of the Old Continent.
Senator Mantica regrets the fact that the position of Italy in the European debate on Kosovo is weak, which reflects the lack of either principled courage or imagination within the ruling leftist coalition. In the beginning, he points out, the position of the Italian government was totally different. Initially, after the end of the intervention by NATO in 1999, that position was based on the need to devise a form of specific autonomy for Kosovo but not to consider independence as a viable option, let alone support it. The focus at that time was on the well-known “109 Standards” for Kosovo, standards concerning the respect for human rights of the Province’s minority communities, the rule of law, the return of refugees, and so on, before any “final status” could be considered.
“The problem of Kosovo was perceived in Rome as a problem of Italy’s national security,” Mantica says, “because we considered Kosovo a territory incapable of introducing the rule of law. We realized that Kosovo was a criminal would-be state whose criminality was largely directed against Italy.” And yet, today, only Slovakia, Romania, Greece and Spain are voicing unease with the proposed independence of Kosovo—and within the European Union as a whole there is no focused resistance to the U.S. position on the desirability of independence.
“We met recently with the U.N. mediator Marti Ahtisaari here in Rome,” Mantica goes on, “and he insisted that Kosovo’s independence would not set a precedent” for other countries with compact minority populations that wish to secede:
We asked him about Abkhasia, Ossetia, Transdnistria, Nagorno-Karabakh, northern Cyprus—and we found Mr. Ahtisaari very compliant with the American perspective. Neither he nor the current Italian government are taking any account of the position of Serbia. We have responded to Ahtisaari by pointing out that the current ethnic balance between Kosovo’s Serbs and Albanians is the result of the Albanians’ ethnic invasion, with only ten percent of the population being Serbian. Ahtisaari even rejected the suggestion that more time should be allowed for negotiations, saying that too much time had passed already with no new ideas on the table. I asked him personally, if the northern part of Kosovo should be allowed to remain with Serbia, or if the Serbian Republic in Bosnia, the Republika Srpska, should be able to join the Republic of Serbia. Is it not the case that Kosovo’s independence would open a host of new problems? I have also noted that the current borders of Serbia are not natural and historical but administrative-political, and that—by contrast—the current borders of Croatia have created a state far greater in geographic extent than the historical Croatia.
Senator Mantica insists that Italy should not recognize any unilateral declaration of independence of Kosovo that would seek to bypass the Security Council, “not only for legal and political reasons, but also because of the long historic ties between Italy and Serbia that hark back to World War I and before.” The pressure from the United States is strong, he says, but in Washington they cannot walk and chew gum at the same time: “Their absolute priority right now is Iraq and Afghanistan, and Kosovo is low on their list of priorities.”
When all is said and done, Manica continues, is it possible to imagine Kosovo as a functional sovereign state? He thinks not, and would therefore suggest a creative alternative: Kosovo as a province of Europe: “If we assume that all of the Balkan countries will eventually enter the European Union, it should be possible to envisage Kosovo entering Europe in a different way, like a province administered by the Union itself.” He nevertheless warns that is not in the capacity and authority of the EU to make such a decision:
Personally I hold that we are still stuck with the destructive legacy of Madeleine Albright. The policies pursued by the United States in her tenure [as Secretary of State] have helped Al Qaeda in Europe. But the same spirit is still present in Mr. Ahtisaari’s insistence that the Serbs of the Krajina are not a problem, while the Albanians of Kosovo are a problem—although in both cases the number of refugees was more or less the same.
The Italian government that agreed to NATO’s attack on Serbia in 1999 was a government of the Left, Mantica points out, just as the current government, which supports the Ahtisaari Plan is of the Left. Its prime minister at that time is now foreign minister; and it is noteworthy that this government has been notably supportive of the American position thus far. “The problem it faces is that our Parliament would not support the government if it tried to extend recognition of Kosovo’s independence that would bypass the UN Security Council,” he concludes. “It is no longer possible to steamroll decisions by asserting that Milosevic is a criminal and Tudjman or Izetbegovic is a saint.”
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Emete! My english ,other than some spelling mistakes, is fine. I have proven myself to be so, in some of the toughest tests available in english speaking world. As for Serbian territorial gains at the expence of albanian territories there is another explanation. Not their lack of civility alone. It was their destiny as well. It is well documented that beetween 4-5 century a.d, a plague killed allmost from half, to 2/3 of ballkan population. It was caused by infected mice brought to the ballkans with ships.Emperor COSTANTINE the Great got sick but made it alive, but his army was not so lucky. The albanian,greek, whoever was living in todays turkey and bullgaria were devastated. There was no manpower available, to stop the slavic crowds coming down to ballkans. As for albanians living in todays croatia,bosnia , were latinized.They were gradually seperating themselves from today Albanians in linguistic terms.So this parts of Illyria , might very well had become part of todays Italy. So we got the real blow from ROME. We were fighting for them , becoming their emperors. As evidece I will mention to you our language, which has borrowed a lot from Roman language.When Serbs appeared to the ballkans we were allmost finished.Albanians as we know today were living, only in mountains, never made possible to make enough food to survive.So Albanians were mostly in todays Dardania, some other ballkan territories, including serbia. Serbia itself gets it strength from Russian support. All their arms are either bought or donated from Rusia. So remember: strong Rusia means strong Serbia and vice-versa. As for Mongoloid blood line on slavic blood , I am not making it up. It it well known that GENGHIS-KHAN empire dominated them for long. It is present in slavic bone structure.A lot of them have bloond features with chineese eyes or dirty black hair taken from Mongols. Look at their animalistick character or ferocity of crimes. Typical mongoloid.It is were they got their name :slav" from bing ghengis-khans slaves.There is not a single humanist from slavic speaking world.The mongol blood does't allow that. I am sure I have spelling mistakes but I am so lazy to go over. I expect disagreements.I will be willing to read some of them. But I am making up anything.The truth as I know.
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Ilir,
I did not mean you, but that Serb Ljubinko Jovicic. With his English, I wouldn't dare write a single line. They can because they are faceless.
There is another article on this Website by the Serb bigoted author Srdja Trifkovic "Kosovo: Back to Square One". The Serbs think that they are winning and Kosova will never achieve independence. Most of the commentators support him because they are Serbs or others who do not know the real essence of the Kosova issue. Go to that article and reply with your well thought arguments. I believe you can do it. I am doing it differently.
C'mon. You are loosing the battle on diplomatic front. Can't you see? International support wouldn't last forever. Neather dirty money from drug trafficing used to bribe western birocrats. Who is so stupid to give money forever and achive nothing? If Kosovo declares unilateral indipendence it will be a long long way to real indipendence which is not guaranted at the end. Anyway, what kind of indipendence is that with foreign armies on your territory to protect you? Kosovo will only stay a dark corner of Europe. Something like Palestine on Middle East. If Albanians want to live prosperous life they need to change their agressive politics. They need to show something different. Better relations with their neighbours. Serbia did it and now is much more prosper then 10 years ago. USA cannot find another Miloshevic or another Husein to start with the war mongering again. Kosovo is the biggest balkan and europe's problem. Thant kind of problems need time to be solved. Need better political ground. You cannot do a quantum leap and achive the goal. Tou cannot threat with violence all the time. At the end, who is afraid of your violence without your "partners" from West.
Attacking the character of others only reveals a weak mind!! The fact remains that Albanians are still going to have to live with the rest of us. In Macedonia, we have given you all the so-called "rights". How about returning some respect?
You go on about being the original Balkan / European people. Where is the proof that you descend from the Illyrians? If you truly were an ancient people, it stands to reason that you would have developed culture, tolerance, consciousness.
How do you expect to defend the "Great Albania"? You've developed nothing but ill will with all of your neighbours. If you think the Americans/ Europeans will always support you, think twice. Their strategic goals have pretty much been met, and their diplomatic wile is pretty much spent! Has it ever crossed your mind you've been duped?
dimitar,
Even if they find any proof that they are descendans from Illyrians which I really doubt, that don't give them any right to go for other countries territory. We, Macedonians have every right to consider ourselfs as a descedens of ancient Macedonians and Illyrians (every nation have that right even people from Armenia, Kazahstan, Afghanistan etc, etc.) but that don't give us right to go and ressurect Alexander's kingdom. Modern history science says: Ancient history is acquisition of whole the world (every nation) and shouldn't be usurped by a single nation.
But as we can see our neighbours Albanians and Greeks can't dig that.
They go on with the politics that is insult for for many human achivements like history, science, international laws etc.
But, there is an old macedonian proverb: Кој со ѓаволот тикви сади, по глава му се удираат
scytale, se slozhuvam, brat. Vashno e, na shiptaro da im propandni se.
Pa do Grtsite, se razbirva, za veshtachki narod mu smeta vistinita. Ciao.
Dimitar! You are the only one that have not seen proof of Albanian Illyrian connection. It is in every non slavic history books, in french,english, italian. It seems to me that the cirilic is the only alphabet you know. As for the rights you gave us: Who are you? Nobody knows. You don't know either. An hibrid. Slavic, turkish,gipsy, some greek in short a salad badly mixed. I hope you will be around when occupied Albanian population in Slavic Macedonia , will be liberated. It will not be long. But anyway Albanians don't wait for others to give them rights. We look for them in hard way. I would wish you guys getting along in Macedonia but I really doubt that it will last. All the best Illyr Dardani
Pa aj ke vidime be Dardania!!!
Dardania, all you seem to know is how to insult others!
It's over!! http://www.maknews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3927 Go home(Albania)...
Dimitar,
I am writing this message to you because I find your ideas interesting. I have been to Macedonia several times because I have relatives there.
Albanians and Macedonians get along very well at the moment because you broke away with Serbia and the Serbs are not in a position to exert pressure on you directly and tell you to be tough on the Albanians. May be, they are doing this indirectly. I don't know. You may know.
I don't think the Macedonian governmen that has expressed its support for Kosova, intends to play fast and loose with the Albanians in Macedonia. Without them, there would be no Macedonia. Do you know why? The Serbs, the Bulgarians and the Greeks would devour you. The Albanians of Kosova and Macedonia will support you provided you are fair to them.
By the way, you say that "if you think the Americans/ Europeans will always support you, think twice. Their strategic goals have pretty much been met, and their diplomatic wile is pretty much spent! Has it ever crossed your mind you’ve been duped?" Can you enlarge on what you have written? Which strategic goals have they met? The fall of communism in Serbia being one of them? I am curious to learn your arguments. We are all lifelong students.
I don't know why you guys are dreaming. Rusias role as a world power is over.Demografics around Rusia are a good cause for them to worry about themselves, let alone them projecting power around the world,the way they used to in 1900..That time is over.They don't have the economic and scientific clout to compete with the new world. England and France have a bigger say over world affairs than Rusia has, allthough their population is 1/3 that of Rusia. Sure there are short terms western interests over trade, but those interests are reciprocal, neither side can afford to sour them. That is why western powers are acting like they take the rusian position in consideracion,but that is just an act,theatre. So, stop dreaming of Rusia world power again, It will be from medium to small Europian power.As for U.S.A IT PS PROJECTED THAT by 2035 the population to be about 450 milion people, approximately 4 times that of Rusia . Add here their tecnological and scientific resurses.You do the math. Be prepared for the next 5000 years of U.S.A as alone supperpower. Don't kid yourself with China and India. They will eat each other.
Illir,
It is waste of time to explain to you some historycal facts. But I will tell you just this: Illiryan is a wide term. Albanians can only make a connection with Ardians. Why don't you start argue with Slovenians or Croatians. Firs Illyrian tribe who settle Balkan peninsula was Hystri. And do you know whe Istra is?
At the end, what is the greatness of Illyrians? No culture, no language, no state. Just a tribal organization. If they were so great they should keep their religion. Mentioning Turks. Turk=muslim. Albanian (Gega)=muslim. This days... nothing has changed.
Alban Ziguri,
I agree with your post but I keep asking my self: What the hell is problem with those people?
Scytale! Illyrian is a wide term for you,but is narrow for me.If it happen to speak Albanian this word(Illirian) would make sense immediately( means : free person. liberte,freedom) Since you don't speak it you fill it absract.You suggest that Illyrian didn't have a language.Are you saying that they are comunicating witha sign language or didn't speak at all because of some genetic disorder
As for Illyrian presence in Slovenia, Croacia, BOSNIA we know that ,but we no longer have a human presence there so asking for those territories would not make sense first, and is not possible to get them ,second.The croats openly addmit that they have SOME Illyrian blood in their vains.Because the Illyrians didn't writte their language ,how do we know for their presence? Roman and Greek sources and place toponims. For instance:Kosova today(no meaning in Albanian) , Dardania then(land of pears in Albanian), Macedonia now(no meaning in ALBANIAN) , Emadhia then( the big territories in Albanian, Dalmacia(the land of sheeps) Molloset(the land of apples) Ulcijnj( the land of woolfs) And I COULD go on and on. But to understand this thoroughly you need to study our language.That's what Germans did when they loudly said: Present day Albanians originate from Illyrians.They have never changed that theory. The Slavic element of the world ,has hard time accepting that. They are either incapable or have an agenda. Fortunately histori does't work in your favour oll the time
Illir,
I think it is mixture of greek and latin.
Anyway, I don't get your point. Let's say that Albanians are descendants of Illiryans. Does that change anything? I will repeat once again: Ancient history is acquisition of whole the world (every nation) and shouldn’t be usurped by a single nation.
If your thesis is that the clame on territory is on someone who came first, go argue with your fellow Americans. Or start fighting for Indian rights. Mentioning Americans this came to my mind:
"An hibrid. Slavic, turkish,gipsy, some greek in short a salad badly mixed."
Maybe that's true. Because we know how to live with others around us. That's not the case with you.
At the end. Who is descendant of Ancient Macedonians? Or what the hell happend with them? Listening albanian and greek arguments maybe we will conclude that those people never exist.
Scytale! Ancient macedonians were more Albanians than slavs.I mentiened it was called Emadhia. Ancient macedonians were mixture of Illyrian and thracian. It is the theses of a greek profesor at "Colombia University" in New YORK. This is why Alexander the Great's mother and Grandmother were Illyrians. They were getting married in their own kind.As for americans you mentioned that killed Indians, you on purpose or accidentally make an insinuation: Illyrians were Indians.That's why I told you Albanians do not follow anyone. We lead. We know what we are, and will stay that way. What are you? What a hell you have to do with Macedonian heretage, other than sit as parasit on their territories.Why don't you admit your bulgarian heretige? Albanians in Macedonia will protect their ansestral territories, and will become even a stronger element.Don't you know without Albanians there is not Macedonia? You will become part greek,part bullgarian, part serbian.From the ALBANIAN part of Macedonia there are two nobel price winners"MOTHER TERESA AND FERID MURAD"So as you can see at least so far Albanians are much more advanced than you macedonians
Alban Ziguri, hi!
The twin traits of the human consciousness are love and aggression. Love for our own, and hatred (deriving from fear of the unknown) of the "other". It's much easier to project the more base, unattractive qualities of our own nature onto another "someone".
"They are much worse than us! See the crimes they have committed against us". And so on. This way we can ignore our own crimes infinitely, and continue forever in a cycle of tit for tat. There are those through personal magnetism, opportunism, whatever means, that are able to manipulate the masses to their own ends, usually with disastrous results. Of course, the main struggles are for resources, land/territory, etc. Interestingly, ego enters into the fray and often overtakes all other reasons for conflict, remaining when all other disputes are settled. The rule, is of course, might makes right.
In the case of the Balkans, I feel the American aim is to keep the region in a state of instability. Its a well known spiritual law that a divided house is easily manipulated. The US supports the Albanians, keeping them in an ever agitated state, and the rest in varying degrees of fear if " the Albanian demands are not met". I believe the Americans are surprised that they have'nt been able to push the independence through and at Russia/Serbia's resistance. I don't believe they particularly care if Kosovo becomes independent, but Serbs, Albanians, Macedonians do.
Europe's bastard creations, Greece (b.1829), given a history by the Germans/English and Albania (early 20thc.) were also geostrategic/ political considerations. To landlock the Slavs, thwart Russia's influence (denial of the warm water ports etc.) and so on. There's a history of prejudice of Catholic Western Europe toward the Slav/Orthodox countries, it's understood. In Macedonia, our "neighbours" are known as the four wolves. And we're well aware that all of them would love us to disappear, to fatten themselves on our carcass. But that doesn't mean it's going to happen!!
As for the Albanians in Macedonia; we've made every effort at co-habitation, dialogue, goodwill. We feel the Albanian response is disingenuous. They "talk the talk" but they don't "walk the walk", taking every opportunity to undermine Macedonia's progress. What's needed is a fresh leadership; a younger less nationalistic, aggressive outlook from the Albs. At the end of the day, we're all going to have to live together! There needs to be give and take, not just take.
Dimitar! Albanians are 40% of population there . How many of privatised state property is at their hands.None.So the talk is not enough.Macedonians have to do some walk too. Giving them the right share of the wealth. Otherwise another war is innivetable.That relative wealth you have, was created with their taxes too.They pay they share to feed your generals of army and police. And what they get in return? Rubber clubs. It might look a little quite now the situation there, but if the wealth distribution continues at the same pace I would not be surprised to see you running for cover, and another independent Albanian state. So show them the money ,not the cheap talk
To my fellow commentators,
Two days ago, I posted my comments in the context of Responses to “Kosovo – Back to Square One”. The next day, that is, yesterday, I logged on to check if there were any comments on my comment. I found the article and clicked on Comments. No article and no comments showed. They had been taken off the Website although the article “Kosovo – Back to Square One” was more recent that the article “The Perils of Kosovo’s Independence” which we are still commenting on. How come? Can anyone answer me whether he/she has the same experience as mine? Can they read the article “Kosovo-Back to Square One” and post comments on it?
Thank you!
Sapienti sat
To Emete, whoever she might be
I am writing to high educated gentlemen who master French, basic German and some Latin, in universal language. Go East, to Paris, Berlin, Milan, come back, with IQ over 120 you'll read my message and perhaps understand it. If you do, join the chaps.
Encantado.
Lj. J.
I am so happy to write to you, who are a high educated gentleman.
It is my opinion that when we write, we have to take every aspect of our comments (content and form) seriously and this is shown in how we write and what we say. When people, like you, whose English turns out to be good, do not use good English, we might think you do it on purpose to ignore and offend those you communicate with.
Writing comments quickly and carelessly afftects the quality of English, makes it hard for others to understand what you are driving at and is conducive to misunderstanding.
I want to make it clear to you and others that though we are strangers, we should post comments to learn from each other's opinions and not try to impose our views. People are different and this depends on their background and interests. Warmongering, racist and offensive, antagonistic language, in whatever circumstances, does not help. This is what I am trying to avoid when I write comments. If I do not succeed a hundred percent, please let me know.
Some people are born evil
thats is all there is
EMete
Thank you for your high stand of ethics that some people obviously do not understand
Thank you again
Just an advice to EMete
I have tried many times to reason with the Serbs but it is impossible to come with them in the middle every day that passes I’m moving to a solid conclusion that they operate in myth building menatality and that is their source of energy. Here is one prominent Serb that states
Dobrica Cosic Former Yugoslav (Serbian) President
“We lie to deceive ourselves, to console others; we lie for mercy, we lie to fight fear, to encourage ourselves, to hide our and somebody else’s misery. We lie for love and honesty. We lie because freedom. The lie is the trait of our patriotism and the proof of our innate smartness. We lie creatively, imaginatively, inventively.”
Illir Dardania,
Something is badly fu**** up with your mind. Why are you keep talking about things that took place 3000 years ago. What’s your point? That the whole world should make a revision of it’s history?
As for Albanians they ar 25% in Macedonia not 40%. Talking about war, Macedonians are not affraid of wars. We’ve seen what you have done in 2001. UCK killed 30-40 soldiers from ambush and kiddnaped 50 civilians. I have been in war I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Go tell your fairytales to someone else. At least we stand alone today. We are not waiting for help. Not from Russia, USA, EU or anyone else.
Let’s not forget that you have gained Kosovo after 78 days of NATO bombing of Serbia. Not because of “braveness” of UCK.
Without corrupted politicians from US an EU bribed with dirty money of albanian mafia you are nothing. Big ZERO.
And this is not 1999 or 2001. Things have changed. The waiter have come to pay up the bills.
Bravos, Scytale!!!
To Scytale! You are telling me ,you didn't get any help!!!Bulgarians,Ukrainians, and Russians didn't help???? Whose helicopters where those flying? What about pilots? You are saing you are not affraid of wars? Everybody is. I wish you being strong militarily, but unfortunately you don't stand a chance. We don't need any armed confrotation in Ballkans since, if you agree with me,we all need some foreign assistence ,with the exception of Turkey who can handle it alone. But times have changed now Scytale. Cooperation is needed ,not wars.As for Kosova war we knew that we didn't stand a chance of fighting Russian made and donated Serbian military machine. But we knew that we were on the loosing side through even not fighting or fighting Serbian army.Albanians had no jobs so they had to go west to stay alive, no schools , heavy military presence which within 20 years could have forced the majority to emmigrate. But we knew that nobody wants emmigrants even if they are primitive Albanians or smart slavs. Miloshevich thought it was 1800 when one can ship people around if one didn't like them . Miloshevich thought Rusia was still a superpower but times had changed there too. So Scytale the real reason why the west helped us was not any grand conspiracy as you have read or heard, was as simple as this: Albanians from Kosova were going to ask ,to live in their countries, Germany, France,England,.USA once forced out of Kosova and no one wants anybody, let alone albanians, that were portrayed as half humans by powerfull slavic propoganda. So the west decided: we can keep this people there through shooting Miloshevich. We we sure that our gamble would work? No, but as I said we were in the loosing side anyway.To our good luck it worked in our favour. Now when we are free to buy guns Serbia has to redo its math, since their manpower and economic numbers are not great in their favours. I hope you agree with me to a certain piont since I am trying to be frank.
To Scytle again! Since I wasn't to carefull when I read your post. when I went over second time I read something chilling. You have been to war? Got Albanian blood in your hands? And expect Albanian respect in return? And I , that never been to war ,am f..cked up? And you , macedonians with a total 1 mil people can fight alone in the Ballkans? You have never done that before. Time will tell Scytale, but as I SIAD IN THE PREVIOUS POST, eather you agree or not, the economy will be a deciding factor if you will be one country. I have heard Albanians complaining that they have hard time to advance economically there, because the macedonian state is not fair in its economic policies. If you live in America you know that for a large part the economy is responsable for keeping all human races together. Macedonia is not an exception. So you have to do a lot of walk in that direction. But one more thing , we Albanians don't wish your destruction , since then , our new neigbhoor will be Bullgaria, which of course can do more harm than you.
I.D. You have no idea about the situation in Macedonia!!
Believe what you will. Why have'nt you started the war with us then, the Serbs, God knows who else? Go ahead, if you can!!!!!!!! The fact is, it's over!!!!!!!!!!
Get off the steroids, or whatever you're on! It's no longer 1999/2001..... Greater Albania is finished. Dead on Arrival>>> RIP
Now we have Serbs living in Macedonia talking in here who want to divert attention somewhere else
I was in Skopje when the fighting was going on in Karacebvo village fifteen minutes from Skopje airport and few minutes from Skopje.
I remember seeing it from Skopje airport, which did close its operation that day. Albanian fighters were very close to airport and Chaire district and who is from Skopje knows what I am talking about. If they wanted to go in Skopje, it was just a five minute and the only thing that was holding them back was THE AMERICAN base near Skopje airport. It is strange how things change based on who is doing the talking.
Beside this did I read an article in which were given a few scenarios regarding Kosovo situation. Macedonia wanted to form a confederation with Albanians from Albania Kosovo and Macedonia itself?
For the Macedonian analysts the Albanian option was the best option compared to that of Bulgarian option, Serbian or Greek option. Macedonians will gain more than any other option if indeed this scenario will play out.
In the end, the discussion is about Kosovo not Macedonia.
So to all “experts of hate” I say ‘bring something innovative to the table not you hate speeches. Leave them to the Nazi rallies.”
FOOD FOR YOUR THOUGH
Let us see now how the Serbs think from a psychological analysis
Dobrica Cosic Former Yugoslav (Serbian) President (you can Google for him to find out more)
“We lie to deceive ourselves, to console others; we lie for mercy, we lie to fight fear, to encourage ourselves, to hide our and somebody else’s misery. We lie for love and honesty. We lie because freedom. The lie is the trait of our patriotism and the proof of our innate smartness. We lie creatively, imaginatively, inventively.”
This is the core of the problem in Kosovo
We lie to deceive ourselves (translation) = we lie so we can lie ourselves = double lies
To console others = we lie to them so lets cheer them up = double lie
can someone else continue I'm so tired of those damm lies (I canoot count how many times the wrod "lies" are mentioned)
Hi Albiqete:
Three Serb Big Lies:
!. Serbs came to the Balkans in the sixth century B.C. and not in the seventh century A.D. as mercenaries of the Byzantine emperor.
2. Hundreds of thousands of Albanians invaded Kosova after World War II.
3. Hundreds of thousands of Serbs left Kosova after World War II.
Albiqete,
Your post reminded me of what I had read in "Twenty years of Balkan Tangle" by Mary Edith Durham. What she wrote about the Serbs and Serbia at the turn of the 20th century is stlll valid today.
What she says about Serb mentality is also made manifest in the comments that some Serb readers post in this Webside. Read it carefully and I am sure you will draw the proper conclusions as to Serbs' behavior today:
...
"That is their religious fanaticism, which then surprised me. It was not astonishing that the Serbs hated Islam, but that they should fiercely hate every other Christian Church I did not expect. (p31)
It is but one more instance of the fact that it was largely to the fanaticism of the Orthodox Church that the Balkan people owed their conquest by the Turks. Evidence enough there is to show that when their fate was in the balance the Orthodox of the Balkans regarded the Turk as a lesser evil than the Pope. Even in 1902, though a few mosques were still permitted to exist, no Catholic Church was tolerated save that attached to one of the Legations over which, of course, the Serb Government had no control. Most of the foreign women I met, who had married Serbs, told me frankly that for the sake of peace they had had to join the Orthodox Church; "you cannot live here unless you do." (p32)
I was astonished at the intense bitterness with which the ex-Queen Natalie's conversion to Rome was spoken of. As the poor woman had led wretched life in Serbia and had left it for ever, her religion could be no concern whatever now of the Serbs. But it seemed to be considered on all sides as an insult to the nation.
Nor was it, so far as I could see, because the people were devout believers--the upper classes certainly did not appear to be—but because the Church was Serbian, and represented a frenzied and intolerant Nationalism. To such an extent was this carried out that a Catholic Albanian, of whom I subsequently saw a good deal, had to add "itch" to the end of his name and conform to the Orthodox Church outwardly in order to obtain leave to open a shop in Belgrade.
That frenzied Nationalism and not religion is at the base of this intolerance is further proved by hatred of the Serb for the Bulgarian Church, which on all points of dogma and doctrine and in its services is precisely the same as that of the Serbs.
And this same frenzied Nationalism, if persisted in, may yet lead to Serbia's undoing." (p.32)
_________________
Haven't developemts over the last years proved the British author Mary Edith Durham right?
Serb ultra nationalism destroyed Yugoslavia. The process of its dissolution started in Kosova where Serb suppression was the worst. It will be complete after Kosova wins its independence.
Ilir Dardania,
If I have albanian (or any) blood on my hands, god help me. War is war, who knows. My point was that is stupid this days to threat with violence. Even more stupid to do it on Balkans. It is "been there, done that".
We have to respect international laws. That is achivement of human civilization throughout centuries. Disrespect of international laws will bring nothing good to us.
Anyway you have the right to fight for your goals. That right is mine too.
So let's live it there.
Albiqete
"Albanian fighters were very close to airport and Chaire district and who is from Skopje knows what I am talking about. If they wanted to go in Skopje, it was just a five minute and the only thing that was holding them back was THE AMERICAN base near Skopje airport."
"U.S. TROOPS ESCORT REBELS TO SAFETY INSIDE MACEDONIA"
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/serbia/kosovo/index.html?query=ARACINOVO%20(MACEDONIA)&field=geo&match=exact
As I say: Been there, done that.
You got just this right: "In the end, the discussion is about Kosovo not Macedonia."
So I'll live it right there and I will not post more on this forum.
Oncemore: You got right to fight for your goal. But it's time, I think, to find some better way.
My comments related to Albanian-Macedonian problems to the region are closed. I wish there was some common sence in these posts, but for a large part there wasn't. This is how , in the western world, when can't agree about solving a simple problem in right way, call it "ballkanisation". The only contribution we gave together to the human civilisation. All because of our idiopathic neighboors. Good night.
In these comments, I am going to give my opinion very briefly on some points raised by the readers in their comments.
The Serbs have made up two so-called arguments: the Serbs came to the Balkan region in the 6th century B.C. and that hundreds of thousands of Albanians invaded Kosova after World War II, while hundreds of thousands of Serbs left Kosova during the same period (!). I advise readers not to believe such arguments. They can find the truth by consulting serious and unbiased authors on the Kosova issue. “Kosovo – a Short History” by Noel Malcolm is a very good guide to the issue. The rejection of these bogus arguments on the basis of historical facts is very important because it would also expose all the other Serb theses.
President Woodrow Wilson did not protect Albania at the Paris Conference in 1919 because of America’s interests in the country (!). He prevented its dismemberment between Serbia, Greece and Italy for the sake of a principle embodied in his Fourteen Points that “guaranteed political independence and territorial integrity to great and small nations alike.” As well as this, President Clinton and the leaders of the European Union protected a small nation that was being massacred by the butcher of the Balkans not because of their special interests in Kosova. With their action, they gave a message to the dictators that they were not immune to international censure and that the free world will always stand up for those peoples and nations whose rights are trampled underfoot. President George W. Bush also has declared full American support for Kosova’s independence not because of America’s specific interests in Kosova. His statement reinforced the great principle Woodrow Wilson fought for: “guaranteed political independence and territorial integrity to great and small nations alike”. In a nutshell, what these three American presidents have done is the embodiment of American idealism, a notion, which is alien to Serbs and Serbia. . States are like people. People who are devoid of ideals and after selfish interests are the scum of society. The same goes for the states, be they big or small.
I do not think partition is the best solution to the Kosova problem because such a solution would benefit the Serbs only and create even more serious problems in the region. If not the entire Kosova, the Serbs would like to grab its northern part (Northern Mitrovica) because that part is the richest in mineral deposits not only in Kosova, but in the entire former Yugoslav space. Kosova and Voivodina were the two granaries of the former Yugoslavia. The Serbs exploited the mineral wealth of Kosova and its agricultural products for one hundred years and now they want to exploit it forever (!).
The partition of Kosova, which means changing its borders, may cause a chain reaction in the Balkans. In other words, it would open the Pandora Box. Changing the borders of Kosova would lead to demands for the rectification of the Balkan borders and organized political and other movements will resort to every means to achieve this end.
The Serb government in Belgrade is now lavishly spending money to purchase the land and houses of the Albanians in Northern Mitrovica at very high prices. This move by Belgrade indicates that the Serbs are fully aware that Kosova will become independent and that they are in a hurry to grab part of it at least. By so doing, the Serbian government is conducting ethnic cleansing of the Albanians from the richest part of Kosova in anticipation of an independent Kosova.
High birth rate, I would say, is an innate, intuitive response of self-protection of a nation when it is in imminent danger of extinction. Nation is like a living organism. It has its own protective immune mechanism that goes into action once it feels its existence threatened. In the case of the Albanians, the threat has always come from Serbia. That immune mechanism can work only in a nation who is full of vitality and resilient like the Albanians.
It is the opinion of foreign policy specialists that the Albanian issue is the very essence of the Balkan question. There are Albanian territories in five Balkan countries. There is no country like Albania in Europe at least. Across the borders of today’s state of Albania there are only Albanian territories inhabited by Albanians. That’s why, their unification into one Albanian state would be the most natural thing and very easy for the international community to help achieve. If created, such a situation would lead to the solution of the Albanian issue and the Balkan question as well.
The animals are back at it again... http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070801/ap_on_re_eu/serbia_gypsies;_ylt=AkRi7e080346hm6MsVQzUcp0bBAF