You are filled with fear. It has been in you for so long now that you don't recognize it as something seperate from you. It hides itself in a cloak of empty intellectualism and moral superiority. It spews venom and poisons those around you with fear. It will lead to sickness and hate. If you continue on this path you will poison she who you love most.

Wake up.

Even as you read this your rage boils up and has already become a conditioned reflex to simply dismiss this message as coming from some anonymous lost soul. Could it come from the depths of your own soul? Or have all the miracles already concluded.

Surrender.

I was thinking the same thing...

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From the Oxford English Dictionary's understanding of the word *pray*:

cl. Latin *precari*, to entreat

1. To ask earnestly, humbly or supplicatingly, to make devout petition to; to ask (a person) for something as a favour...
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I'm a Catholic. I would not have any objection to praying *with* a Baptist.

I would not, for that matter, have any objection to praying *to* a Baptist.

1. I am confident you recite the Nicene Creed per your traditional Anglican spirituality, and believe it with all your heart. My point, muddled once again, is that most Protestants - particularly of the evangelical flavor - have profound difficulties with the implications of the Creed. This is by no means a blanket indictment of all Protestants; though, by your own admission, the ranks of traditional churches are getting a wee bit thin.

2. I was in no way attempting to be 'cute' or mocking in my comment, "wherever he might be", in regards to Martin Luther. As we are all sinners in this world, and have no capacity to know God's judgment as regards the souls who pass before us, it is therefore not entirely absurd to wonder which way they went. I pray Luther is saved; I have no desire for any man's damnation. But unless one is declared a saint, thereby demonstrating one's close proximity to the Beatific Vision, there's no way to tell. I am unaware if the Lutherans have canonized Martin, and I apologize for my ignorance on that issue. Furthermore, it is by no means nasty to refer to the various Reformation events as vanity plays. It is one thing to be consumed by the righteousness of one's conscience; it is quite another to wrecklessly break ranks and advocate others to do the same. Few were on his best behavior in the 16th century (with the exception, of course, of Thomas More, John Fisher and a host of other martyrs), particularly when it was not inevitable that events should play out as they unfortunately did. I only wish Luther, in all his brilliance as a Scripture scholar, had sought another path. Henry VIII, on the other hand, is a horse of an entirely different color...

3. I am very happy that you and your wife have read the works of Benedict XVI; we should all be so inclined to edify ourselves in this way, as the current Pope is an acknowledged intellectual and theologian of a very high order.

You are the recipient of no small amount of grace as illustrated by your love of God and Sacred Tradition. I strive to match your zeal, commitment and wisdom. My hope is that one day, pray it be sooner rather than later, we may repair the rift, for it is surely hateful to God.

Pax vobiscum et familia tua

First, I would expect that the Roman Catholic Church would assert that it is "the one true church". I am not offended by this, unless someone wants to make it offensive to me.

Secondly, to Mr. Joshua Smith, who said "I relish the discourse of Chronicles readers . . . but the discourse among Chronicles readers . . . between the Christian faiths I've found . . . [is] below par." Amen, brother! The nastiness and plain squabbling simply get in the way, and add to the confusion.

Thirdly, to Mr. Muza, "a total rejection of the Nicene Creed" (???) Where did you get this notion? The Nicene Creed can be found on page 71 of the Anglican 1928 Book of Common Prayer; I recite it at almost every Sunday service (very occasionally, we utilize the Apostle's Creed).

Fourth, to Mr. Muza, at post 76 again, regarding your comments about Luther, "wherever he might be" - cute, and not befitting any reasoned discussion. Yes, I am sure that he is chagrined at the state of the Christian faith of some of his followers, just as the various leaders through the ages of the Roman Catholic church must likewise be concerned at the state of the Christian faith of some of their followers. It was interesting, some years ago, on the occasion of the 500th anniversary of Luther's birth, an occasion on which the Pope preached at a Lutheran church in Rome, that a number of biblical scholars stated that if Luther were alive today, he would be a Roman Catholic priest, and a conservative one. And to essentially call (reference your earlier post 36) Luther's work a "vanity play" is ahistorical. My wife has read a great many of the books written by Cardinal Ratzinger/Pope Benedict XVI, and we both heartily applaud the course he has taken. Read what he says about Luther.

Fifth, to Mr. Kirkwood, yeah, you did appear to lump Buddhists with Baptists, and thankfully corrected any such impression. But you do state (at your post 65) words to the effect that maintaining that all Christian churches are equally valid puts you "on shaky ground" should you choose to deny that all religions are equally valid; I think that you can SAY that, but the inference that follows, i.e., that it is untenable ground, is invalid. I myself would not agree that all Christian churches are equally valid, but first, I would define what I meant by "Christian churches". And, I would begin by stipulating that Christ, not ANY church (institution/structure/body of beliefs) or church forefather, is the Rock, around which the rest must necessarily be oriented; these "things" oriented around Christ are necessarily secondary to Christ. If you don't agree, that's OK. And I will take this opportunity to say I do enjoy your pieces in Chronicles.

As you might guess, I attend one of the (now rare) traditional Anglican churches. We pray the sacraments, and use the standard liturgy I find in both our church and in others.

Twice in the next three weeks I will attend, and rejoice in, my local (Carmel) Bach Festival's production of "The Passion of Our Lord According to St. Matthew", written by an adherent of that heretic Luther named Johann Sebastian Bach, and possessed of more genuine knowledge of and feeling for the Christian faith, what it is and what it means, than a whole lot of blog artists. I will be privileged to hear arias like "Aus Liebe will mein Heiland sterben" (Out of love will my Savior die), "Erbarme dich, mein Gott" (Have mercy on me, God), and "Mache dich, mein Herze, rein" (Make my heart clean [from sin]), a prayer I say silently to myself when I am at the communion rail. The whole would wring tears out of a stone.

And now, enough. My advice is to listen to the "Passion" with some introspection, and think about what it tells you. Your love of and appreciation for the Christian faith will be increased by this music written by a man dubbed by some Harvard musicologists some years ago as "the fifth Evangelist". High praise? Yes, and most apt.

But just as the Catholic Church, by definition, must claim singular Truth, so too, the Protestant denominations must, of necessity, ignore history and rely on an alternate authority. So, here we be.

"To become deep in history", is the only solution that I know. No amount of doctrinal arguing is going to get us there.

Pertinent to the topic that launched this discussion, the Tridentine Mass, is a fine new book which I have just begun reading, but will dare to recommend: "The Heresy of Formlessness" by German author, Martin Mosebach, Ignatius Press. I think many here will find it an edifying read.

As regards the benighted Dr. Dominic Crossan, formerly the chairman of the religious studies department at DePaul University...

The man served up pabulum and churned out coffee-table literature, all with the objective of denying the divinity and resurrection of Christ. That such turgid nonsense routinely sold well at booksellers and were responsible for turning this miserable man into an iconoclastic cause celebre is bad enough; the fact that this otherwise charming, elfin Irishman held sway over two generations of undergraduate and graduate students in the country's largest 'Catholic' university is a crime that calls out to Heaven for justice. I can honestly tell you that this man was responsible for the loss of faith of not a few students, whose parents trustingly put their charges into his care.

With Crossan's tenure, DePaul's indefatiguable appetite for novelty and error, and the complete breakdown of any Catholic identity at this school, I have oftentimes lamented my inability to call upon the Holy Inquisition for redress...

I don't blame the Mass itself, which as Kirt H. said, is perfectly valid. Without these abuses, however, today's Tridentine Masses would not be so well attended and constantly growing. The traditional movement would be virtually non-existent.

Mr. Peters, I don't think this new universal indult will change
things very much amongst Catholics in the short term. It's just permission -- nobody can tell how far afield it will be put into practice. After all, a priest still has to learn to celebrate the Tridentine. And people have to actually demand it. The real change will come about when the pope (probably not the present one)
commands complete Church-wide return to the Old Rite. I believe it will happen; but probably not soon.

Finally, I'd like to echo what Dr. Phillips said -- we've had those Protestant vs. Catholic "discussions" before; they don't get us very far. Chesterton knew why, when he said : only people that agree with each other can argue.