Comments on: The Martyr of Mosul http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/06/22/the-martyr-of-mosul/ Your home for traditional conservatism. Fri, 10 Feb 2012 22:38:57 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Politeuma · Spreading Democracy, Scattering Christians http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/06/22/the-martyr-of-mosul/comment-page-1/#comment-168667 Politeuma · Spreading Democracy, Scattering Christians Wed, 09 Jul 2008 20:15:30 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=156#comment-168667 [...] Josh’s post today reminded me of this commentary from a while ago: Since 2003, an immense tragedy has befallen the Iraqi Christians. In 2000, Chaldeans, Syro-Catholics, Syro-Orthodox, Assyrians from the East, Catholic and Orthodox Armenians, and Greek-Melkites together numbered 1.5 million. Today, perhaps 500,000 remain. Hundreds of thousands have found sanctuary in Syria and Jordan, tens of thousands in Egypt and Lebanon. Among the refugees are many of Iraq’s professional doctors and teachers who could have helped build a better future for all in Iraq. … For the martyrdom of Christianity in its birth cradle, blame must fall heavily upon the men who conceived this misbegotten war. ~ Patrick J. Buchanan [...] [...] Josh’s post today reminded me of this commentary from a while ago: Since 2003, an immense tragedy has befallen the Iraqi Christians. In 2000, Chaldeans, Syro-Catholics, Syro-Orthodox, Assyrians from the East, Catholic and Orthodox Armenians, and Greek-Melkites together numbered 1.5 million. Today, perhaps 500,000 remain. Hundreds of thousands have found sanctuary in Syria and Jordan, tens of thousands in Egypt and Lebanon. Among the refugees are many of Iraq’s professional doctors and teachers who could have helped build a better future for all in Iraq. … For the martyrdom of Christianity in its birth cradle, blame must fall heavily upon the men who conceived this misbegotten war. ~ Patrick J. Buchanan [...]

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/06/22/the-martyr-of-mosul/comment-page-1/#comment-56133 Anonymous Wed, 12 Dec 2007 23:27:40 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=156#comment-56133 <strong>large cocls...</strong> Susana large cocls the Alana Evans black. Mandy Michaels reports crash, established opinions despite large cocls. ... large cocls...

Susana large cocls the Alana Evans black. Mandy Michaels reports crash, established opinions despite large cocls. ...

]]> By: Christians in Iraq | De Regno Christi http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/06/22/the-martyr-of-mosul/comment-page-1/#comment-3866 Christians in Iraq | De Regno Christi Wed, 27 Jun 2007 13:56:50 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=156#comment-3866 [...] From Pat Buchanan…. [...] [...] From Pat Buchanan…. [...]

]]> By: George Ajjan http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/06/22/the-martyr-of-mosul/comment-page-1/#comment-3563 George Ajjan Mon, 25 Jun 2007 17:53:53 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=156#comment-3563 on this topic, here's a classic from 2004 - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4179618: <b>Tim Russert</b>: If the Iraqis choose, however, an Islamic extremist regime, would you accept that, and would that be better for the United States than Saddam Hussein? <b>President Bush</b>: They're not going to develop that. And the reason I can say that is because I'm very aware of this basic law they're writing. They're not going to develop that because right here in the Oval Office I sat down with Mr. Pachachi and Chalabi and al-Hakim, people from different parts of the country that have made the firm commitment, that they want a constitution eventually written that recognizes minority rights and freedom of religion. ...I said, you know, “I'm a Methodist, what are my chances of success in your country and your vision?” And [SCIRI leader Hakim] said, “It's going to be a free society where you can worship freely.” This is a Shiia fellow. And my only point to you is these people are committed to a pluralistic society. on this topic, here's a classic from 2004 - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4179618:

Tim Russert: If the Iraqis choose, however, an Islamic extremist regime, would you accept that, and would that be better for the United States than Saddam Hussein?

President Bush: They're not going to develop that. And the reason I can say that is because I'm very aware of this basic law they're writing. They're not going to develop that because right here in the Oval Office I sat down with Mr. Pachachi and Chalabi and al-Hakim, people from different parts of the country that have made the firm commitment, that they want a constitution eventually written that recognizes minority rights and freedom of religion.

...I said, you know, “I'm a Methodist, what are my chances of success in your country and your vision?” And [SCIRI leader Hakim] said, “It's going to be a free society where you can worship freely.” This is a Shiia fellow. And my only point to you is these people are committed to a pluralistic society.

]]> By: Sid Cundiff http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/06/22/the-martyr-of-mosul/comment-page-1/#comment-3541 Sid Cundiff Mon, 25 Jun 2007 15:11:01 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=156#comment-3541 Why have Rohil's comments supra not be deleted? Below the mark and beyond the pale, would they be more at home at [url suppressed] and [url suppressed], groups with whom we have nothing in common, and company with whom we ought not keep? Why have Rohil's comments supra not be deleted? Below the mark and beyond the pale, would they be more at home at [url suppressed] and [url suppressed], groups with whom we have nothing in common, and company with whom we ought not keep?

]]> By: Politeuma · Spreading Democracy, Scattering Christians http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/06/22/the-martyr-of-mosul/comment-page-1/#comment-3452 Politeuma · Spreading Democracy, Scattering Christians Sun, 24 Jun 2007 22:19:03 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=156#comment-3452 [...] June 24, 2007 Since 2003, an immense tragedy has befallen the Iraqi Christians. In 2000, Chaldeans, Syro-Catholics, Syro-Orthodox, Assyrians from the East, Catholic and Orthodox Armenians, and Greek-Melkites together numbered 1.5 million. Today, perhaps 500,000 remain. Hundreds of thousands have found sanctuary in Syria and Jordan, tens of thousands in Egypt and Lebanon. Among the refugees are many of Iraq’s professionals—doctors and teachers who could have helped build a better future for all in Iraq.  … For the martyrdom of Christianity in its birth cradle, blame must fall heavily upon the men who conceived this misbegotten war.  ~ Patrick J. Buchanan No comments Comments feed for this article Trackback linkhttp://luker.org/2007/06/24/spreading-democracy-scattering-christians/trackback/ [...] [...] June 24, 2007 Since 2003, an immense tragedy has befallen the Iraqi Christians. In 2000, Chaldeans, Syro-Catholics, Syro-Orthodox, Assyrians from the East, Catholic and Orthodox Armenians, and Greek-Melkites together numbered 1.5 million. Today, perhaps 500,000 remain. Hundreds of thousands have found sanctuary in Syria and Jordan, tens of thousands in Egypt and Lebanon. Among the refugees are many of Iraq’s professionals—doctors and teachers who could have helped build a better future for all in Iraq.  … For the martyrdom of Christianity in its birth cradle, blame must fall heavily upon the men who conceived this misbegotten war.  ~ Patrick J. Buchanan No comments Comments feed for this article Trackback linkhttp://luker.org/2007/06/24/spreading-democracy-scattering-christians/trackback/ [...]

]]> By: robert reavis http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/06/22/the-martyr-of-mosul/comment-page-1/#comment-3424 robert reavis Sun, 24 Jun 2007 14:16:42 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=156#comment-3424 Eunomia, Great post or quote. It reminded me of Catholics for Free Choice. I once heard an old Jesuit say to a questioner who had asked him, " If The Mass is the summation of Catholic belief, why is it that such a large % of Catholics don't believe in the Real Presence ?" Answer: 100% of Catholics believe in the Real Presence, those you describe are either imposters or apostates." Thanks for the good post. Eunomia,
Great post or quote. It reminded me of Catholics for Free Choice. I once heard an old Jesuit say to a questioner who had asked him, " If The Mass is the summation of Catholic belief, why is it that such a large % of Catholics don't believe in the Real Presence ?"
Answer: 100% of Catholics believe in the Real Presence, those you describe are either imposters or apostates."
Thanks for the good post.

]]> By: Eunomia · Conscience And Conversions http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/06/22/the-martyr-of-mosul/comment-page-1/#comment-3376 Eunomia · Conscience And Conversions Sun, 24 Jun 2007 07:21:01 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=156#comment-3376 [...] There is something strangely depressing about this news.  It is somehow less surprising that the unreflective and incurious Mr. Bush went ahead with the invasion of Iraq, when he was surrounded by either secular careerists or fellow evangelicals with no great grounding in ideas derived from the thought of the Fathers, and further encouraged by Catholic neoconservatives who provided the moral and intellectual fig leafs to assuage any doubts.  Likewise, while it seemed to be especially misguided that the then-head of the Union in Germany, Angela Merkel, backed the war despite the Vatican’s clear objections to the conflict, Merkel’s own East German Protestant background made some sense of her indifference to these objections.  There is something a bit more disturbing about Blair, who should hardly have been entirely ignorant of or completely indifferent to the words of Pope John Paul II or then-Cardinal Ratzinger on these matters given the background of his wife, the upbringing of his children and so on, now coming to Rome as if it were the most normal thing while an aggressive war that he has helped to wage has been destroying the Catholic and other Christian communities of Iraq.  See, for instance, the fate of Fr. Ragheed Ganni and three of his deacons, described by Pat Buchanan and discussed in multiple posts by Andrea Kirk Assaf to learn more about one episode of the new Christian martyrs of Iraq.  The blood of martyrs is indeed the seed of the Church, but there is something just a little unseemly about a man who has helped to unleash the slaughter against his Christian brethren convert to a given confession when he is at least indrectly responsible for inflicting suffering and martyrdom on that confession’s members.  It would be almost as bizarre as Bill Clinton becoming Orthodox.  [...] [...] There is something strangely depressing about this news.  It is somehow less surprising that the unreflective and incurious Mr. Bush went ahead with the invasion of Iraq, when he was surrounded by either secular careerists or fellow evangelicals with no great grounding in ideas derived from the thought of the Fathers, and further encouraged by Catholic neoconservatives who provided the moral and intellectual fig leafs to assuage any doubts.  Likewise, while it seemed to be especially misguided that the then-head of the Union in Germany, Angela Merkel, backed the war despite the Vatican’s clear objections to the conflict, Merkel’s own East German Protestant background made some sense of her indifference to these objections.  There is something a bit more disturbing about Blair, who should hardly have been entirely ignorant of or completely indifferent to the words of Pope John Paul II or then-Cardinal Ratzinger on these matters given the background of his wife, the upbringing of his children and so on, now coming to Rome as if it were the most normal thing while an aggressive war that he has helped to wage has been destroying the Catholic and other Christian communities of Iraq.  See, for instance, the fate of Fr. Ragheed Ganni and three of his deacons, described by Pat Buchanan and discussed in multiple posts by Andrea Kirk Assaf to learn more about one episode of the new Christian martyrs of Iraq.  The blood of martyrs is indeed the seed of the Church, but there is something just a little unseemly about a man who has helped to unleash the slaughter against his Christian brethren convert to a given confession when he is at least indrectly responsible for inflicting suffering and martyrdom on that confession’s members.  It would be almost as bizarre as Bill Clinton becoming Orthodox.  [...]

]]> By: robert m. peters http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/06/22/the-martyr-of-mosul/comment-page-1/#comment-3354 robert m. peters Sun, 24 Jun 2007 02:44:37 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=156#comment-3354 Let's not forget that the neocons have two lineages: fascist through Leo Strauss and Marxist though William Kristol. The mentor of Strauss was Martin Heidegger, chief philosopher of the Nazi Party in academe, the claims of the revisionists not withstanding. Strauss brought that worldview with him to the University of Chicago and there begat the likes of Wolfowitz. William Kristol and the neocons of his ilk are Trotsky's children. Both fascists and Marxists are spawns of left-wing Hegelianism. The third ugly sister of this spawn is social democracy, so pervasive in the West, including these United States. As a Christian, I have every confidence that the Church - the bride and the body of the Christ - will fulfill her mission of bringing the evangelium to a dark and dying world and will be therein the salt and the light. We must reject three things: the enticement of secularism in which much of the Church has become apostate; the old heresy of gnosticism which, I believe, has made itself manifest in the form of dispensationalism and rapture theology - this in an unholy alliance with a modern movement of Judaizing the Church, and genuflecting to the state and using its means to "solve" problems. As Christians, we must remember that the only true and real transforming Agent in the universe in the Christ who through the power of His blood and His Spirit transforms individuals, the Church herself, and societies. Governments and law do not do this. If the transformation by and through the Christ is taking place in a given society, then it will be reflected in the nature of that society's polity and in the laws of that society. However, governments and laws cannot transform societies; they can, however, deform societies. As a Christian, I can pray against neocons - using them as the latest manifestation of the enemy; I can offer political alternatives to their ideology and programs; I can advocate secession from polities which they control; and if they use force against such attempts on my part, I can defend myself against them. I do pray daily for the brethren, largely forgotten by their sister churches in the West but certainly not by their Christ, under siege in the Middle East and elsewhere. As an American, it grieves me that the government of these United States, acting immorally and illegally in my name, has greatly contributed to their suffering. It is my hope, that when the Church in America falls under the same shadow that they will pray for us. Let's not forget that the neocons have two lineages: fascist through Leo Strauss and Marxist though William Kristol. The mentor of Strauss was Martin Heidegger, chief philosopher of the Nazi Party in academe, the claims of the revisionists not withstanding. Strauss brought that worldview with him to the University of Chicago and there begat the likes of Wolfowitz. William Kristol and the neocons of his ilk are Trotsky's children. Both fascists and Marxists are spawns of left-wing Hegelianism. The third ugly sister of this spawn is social democracy, so pervasive in the West, including these United States.

As a Christian, I have every confidence that the Church - the bride and the body of the Christ - will fulfill her mission of bringing the evangelium to a dark and dying world and will be therein the salt and the light. We must reject three things: the enticement of secularism in which much of the Church has become apostate; the old heresy of gnosticism which, I believe, has made itself manifest in the form of dispensationalism and rapture theology - this in an unholy alliance with a modern movement of Judaizing the Church, and genuflecting to the state and using its means to "solve" problems. As Christians, we must remember that the only true and real transforming Agent in the universe in the Christ who through the power of His blood and His Spirit transforms individuals, the Church herself, and societies. Governments and law do not do this. If the transformation by and through the Christ is taking place in a given society, then it will be reflected in the nature of that society's polity and in the laws of that society. However, governments and laws cannot transform societies; they can, however, deform societies.

As a Christian, I can pray against neocons - using them as the latest manifestation of the enemy; I can offer political alternatives to their ideology and programs; I can advocate secession from polities which they control; and if they use force against such attempts on my part, I can defend myself against them.

I do pray daily for the brethren, largely forgotten by their sister churches in the West but certainly not by their Christ, under siege in the Middle East and elsewhere. As an American, it grieves me that the government of these United States, acting immorally and illegally in my name, has greatly contributed to their suffering. It is my hope, that when the Church in America falls under the same shadow that they will pray for us.

]]> By: robert reavis http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/06/22/the-martyr-of-mosul/comment-page-1/#comment-3352 robert reavis Sun, 24 Jun 2007 02:25:20 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=156#comment-3352 Mr. Miller, I think Pat has said plenty about the globalist and the transnational corporations. The shipping lanes were being kept open with our Fifth Fleet, a ground war was unnecessary, and there was plenty of opportunity elsewhere in the region for what Marine Corps General Smedly Butler called "the racket." Plus America was and is one of the two largest markets for oil, there was no danger to our interest. They had to sell it to us, if they wanted to sell much at all. And if oil and corporate greed is the main or real source of Iraq invasion II, then what is the source of Iran attack 1 that is now developing ? Honestly, I imagine Pat is still smarting over the unjust public lynching and character assasination he received at the hands of his detractors, but I don't think he has been blinded by revenge. It is too distracting from his real desire, which is to break the cartel of silence surrounding foreign policy in America. Mr. Miller,
I think Pat has said plenty about the globalist and the transnational corporations. The shipping lanes were being kept open with our Fifth Fleet, a ground war was unnecessary, and there was plenty of opportunity elsewhere in the region for what Marine Corps General Smedly Butler called "the racket." Plus America was and is one of the two largest markets for oil, there was no danger to our interest. They had to sell it to us, if they wanted to sell much at all.
And if oil and corporate greed is the main or real source of Iraq invasion II, then what is the source of Iran attack 1 that is now developing ? Honestly, I imagine Pat is still smarting over the unjust public lynching and character assasination he received at the hands of his detractors, but I don't think he has been blinded by revenge. It is too distracting from his real desire, which is to break the cartel of silence surrounding foreign policy in America.

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