Comments on: The Neoconservative Threat to American Freedom http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/06/13/the-neoconservative-threat-to-american-freedom/ Your home for traditional conservatism. Wed, 23 May 2012 17:17:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: DanielM http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/06/13/the-neoconservative-threat-to-american-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-2366 DanielM Mon, 18 Jun 2007 00:56:00 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=143#comment-2366 Yeah you're right, surely it is just a whole lot of coincidences. "The radical disjunction between political and economic power in Poland meant that the enfranchised noble citizens gradually lost control of their culture. The easy-going Polish oligarchs, wedded to an economic system that seemed so eminently successful in bringing new lands under the Polish crown, failed to understand that the control over those territories was being undermined from within by the very people they relied on for its administration. This happened gradually, of course, and it began to manifest itself first in the area of religion. Flush with the short-term wealth which the arenda system created and the territorial expansion which it enabled, the Polish kings ignored the biggest cultural crisis of their day, the Protestant revolt against Catholic hegemony over Europe. There was no Inquisition in Poland. As a result, what might have happened in Spain did happen there. Poland became a model for tolerance, but in doing so paved the way for its own extinction at the end of the 18th century." "Messianic politics lies at the heart of what the Jewish and Puritan revolutionaries of the 16th century had in common, which is to say, both the Puritan and the Jew shared a desire to attain the spiritual goods promised in the Bible by secular means. Messianic politics was a form of magic, since the attainment of wealth and power by spiritual means had always been the goal of Simon Magus and his followers, and as such it had a powerful appeal to a group of people who were just discovering the natural sciences at the same time that they were full of revulsion at the cross of Christ and the ideal of suffering which it embodied. "It is better," St. Augustine wrote, summarizing the Catholic alternative to Simon Magus, "to love God and make use of money, than to love money and make use of God." The Puritan rejection of the medieval worldview of the Catholic Church (and its Anglican surrogates) was ultimately traceable to the Jewish rejection of the suffering Christ as an unworthy Messiah. "The chief priests," St. Matthew tells us, "with the scribes and elders mocked him in the same way. ‘He saved others,’ they said, ‘he cannot save himself. He is the king of Israel; let him come down from the cross now, and we will believe in him.’" http://www.culturewars.com/2003/RevolutionaryJew.html Yeah you're right, surely it is just a whole lot of coincidences.

"The radical disjunction between political and economic power in Poland meant that the enfranchised noble citizens gradually lost control of their culture. The easy-going Polish oligarchs, wedded to an economic system that seemed so eminently successful in bringing new lands under the Polish crown, failed to understand that the control over those territories was being undermined from within by the very people they relied on for its administration. This happened gradually, of course, and it began to manifest itself first in the area of religion. Flush with the short-term wealth which the arenda system created and the territorial expansion which it enabled, the Polish kings ignored the biggest cultural crisis of their day, the Protestant revolt against Catholic hegemony over Europe. There was no Inquisition in Poland. As a result, what might have happened in Spain did happen there. Poland became a model for tolerance, but in doing so paved the way for its own extinction at the end of the 18th century."

"Messianic politics lies at the heart of what the Jewish and Puritan revolutionaries of the 16th century had in common, which is to say, both the Puritan and the Jew shared a desire to attain the spiritual goods promised in the Bible by secular means. Messianic politics was a form of magic, since the attainment of wealth and power by spiritual means had always been the goal of Simon Magus and his followers, and as such it had a powerful appeal to a group of people who were just discovering the natural sciences at the same time that they were full of revulsion at the cross of Christ and the ideal of suffering which it embodied. "It is better," St. Augustine wrote, summarizing the Catholic alternative to Simon Magus, "to love God and make use of money, than to love money and make use of God." The Puritan rejection of the medieval worldview of the Catholic Church (and its Anglican surrogates) was ultimately traceable to the Jewish rejection of the suffering Christ as an unworthy Messiah. "The chief priests," St. Matthew tells us, "with the scribes and elders mocked him in the same way. ‘He saved others,’ they said, ‘he cannot save himself. He is the king of Israel; let him come down from the cross now, and we will believe in him.’"

http://www.culturewars.com/2003/RevolutionaryJew.html

]]> By: ECHS1967 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/06/13/the-neoconservative-threat-to-american-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-2349 ECHS1967 Sun, 17 Jun 2007 17:41:55 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=143#comment-2349 Here we go again. If it's not the homos, it's the Jews; if not the Jews, then the Masons, etc. Next up, it's the extraterrestrials, I suppose ... In re conspiracy theories, consider an old Russian saying, pungent in the original, pretty good in Engklish, too: Three can keep a secret if two of them are dead. Here we go again. If it's not the homos, it's the Jews; if not the Jews, then the Masons, etc. Next up, it's the extraterrestrials, I suppose ...

In re conspiracy theories, consider an old Russian saying, pungent in the original, pretty good in Engklish, too:

Three can keep a secret if two of them are dead.

]]> By: DanielM http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/06/13/the-neoconservative-threat-to-american-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-2279 DanielM Sat, 16 Jun 2007 17:48:50 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=143#comment-2279 "The more he listened to [Deputy Defense Secretary Paul] Wolfowitz and other administration officials talk about Iraq, the more Zinni became convinced that interventionist 'neoconservative' ideologues were plunging the nation into a war in a part of the world they didn't understand. 'The more I saw, the more I thought that this was the product of the neocons who didn't understand the region and were going to create havoc there. These were dilettantes from Washington think tanks who never had an idea that worked on the ground.'"--General Anthony Zinni "Technically, the former head of the Central Command in the Middle East didn't say 'Jews.' He instead used a term that has become a new favorite for anti-Semites: 'neoconservatives.' As the name implies, 'neoconservative' was originally meant to denote someone who is a newcomer to the right. In the 90's, many people self-identified themselves as 'neocons,' but today that term has become synonymous with 'Jews.'"--Joel Mowbray ...the dark secret of Jewish power is out. Just recently it was 'third rail', touch-and-die, deadly dangerous to mention, certain end to a career. Just recently, Joe Public snapped his TV from an eminence with an Israeli passport to a member of a Jewish think-tank, and muttered to himself: Surely it is just a coincidence that so many important and largely unelected people in our country happen to belong to this small minority group. Surely it is just a coincidence that they belong to different parties but reach the same conclusions. Surely it is just a coincidence that ninety per cent of American foreign aid goes to their cousins in prosperous Tel Aviv. Surely it is just a coincidence that they run our newspapers, television, cinema, universities. Anyway, we are not allowed to notice this elephant in our sitting room."--Israel Shamir, Midas Ears, March 11, 2003] "The more he listened to [Deputy Defense Secretary Paul] Wolfowitz and other administration officials talk about Iraq, the more Zinni became convinced that interventionist 'neoconservative' ideologues were plunging the nation into a war in a part of the world they didn't understand. 'The more I saw, the more I thought that this was the product of the neocons who didn't understand the region and were going to create havoc there. These were dilettantes from Washington think tanks who never had an idea that worked on the ground.'"--General Anthony Zinni

"Technically, the former head of the Central Command in the Middle East didn't say 'Jews.' He instead used a term that has become a new favorite for anti-Semites: 'neoconservatives.' As the name implies, 'neoconservative' was originally meant to denote someone who is a newcomer to the right. In the 90's, many people self-identified themselves as 'neocons,' but today that term has become synonymous with 'Jews.'"--Joel Mowbray

...the dark secret of Jewish power is out. Just recently it was 'third rail', touch-and-die, deadly dangerous to mention, certain end to a career. Just recently, Joe Public snapped his TV from an eminence with an Israeli passport to a member of a Jewish think-tank, and muttered to himself: Surely it is just a coincidence that so many important and largely unelected people in our country happen to belong to this small minority group. Surely it is just a coincidence that they belong to different parties but reach the same conclusions. Surely it is just a coincidence that ninety per cent of American foreign aid goes to their cousins in prosperous Tel Aviv. Surely it is just a coincidence that they run our newspapers, television, cinema, universities. Anyway, we are not allowed to notice this elephant in our sitting room."--Israel Shamir, Midas Ears, March 11, 2003]

]]> By: Sid Cundiff http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/06/13/the-neoconservative-threat-to-american-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-2145 Sid Cundiff Thu, 14 Jun 2007 14:02:01 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=143#comment-2145 1. There is a history of American ethnic groups lobbying for a certain foreign policy, and the more recent arrivals often are more knowledgeable. During 1914-1918, Irish, German/Central European, and Catholic immigrates opposed US entry of the side of the British and the French. These groups largely immigrated into the US after 1848. The old Jeffersonian Democrats agreed with them, “Twisting the Lion’s tail” a policy that went back to Jefferson and Polk. And they were right to oppose such entry The other big groups who mostly entered before 1775 – the East Anglians into New England, the Quakers into the Delaware Valley, the Borderers (the so-called “Scots-Irish”) into the Backcountry, the Cavaliers into Virginia, and the Scottish Highlanders (first into the Cape River Valley) – were Anglophilic, and thus foolish supported entry. 2. In my entry, #1, I attempted to demonstrate a historical legacy from the Whigs. I invite Mr. Newman (of #8) to offer evidence to demonstrate his assertion of a Marxist legacy. He may be right. He just needs evidence. Do Neocons believe in Dialectical Materialism? The Labor Theory of Value? The Marxist view of interest? The Marxist view of exploitation? Class Struggle? The Dictatorship of the Proletariat? Trotsky’s “permanent revolution”? Gramscian “Hegemony”? The Frankfurt School on “ideology”, “superstructure”, “authoritarian personality”, “one dimensional man”, and so called “critical theory”? Frankly, the only similarity that I see is their agreement with Marx on the class he hated the most: the lumpen-proletariat (<i>The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Napoleon</i> ). Yet I’m willing to be persuaded. 1. There is a history of American ethnic groups lobbying for a certain foreign policy, and the more recent arrivals often are more knowledgeable. During 1914-1918, Irish, German/Central European, and Catholic immigrates opposed US entry of the side of the British and the French. These groups largely immigrated into the US after 1848. The old Jeffersonian Democrats agreed with them, “Twisting the Lion’s tail” a policy that went back to Jefferson and Polk. And they were right to oppose such entry The other big groups who mostly entered before 1775 – the East Anglians into New England, the Quakers into the Delaware Valley, the Borderers (the so-called “Scots-Irish”) into the Backcountry, the Cavaliers into Virginia, and the Scottish Highlanders (first into the Cape River Valley) – were Anglophilic, and thus foolish supported entry.

2. In my entry, #1, I attempted to demonstrate a historical legacy from the Whigs. I invite Mr. Newman (of #8) to offer evidence to demonstrate his assertion of a Marxist legacy. He may be right. He just needs evidence. Do Neocons believe in Dialectical Materialism? The Labor Theory of Value? The Marxist view of interest? The Marxist view of exploitation? Class Struggle? The Dictatorship of the Proletariat? Trotsky’s “permanent revolution”? Gramscian “Hegemony”? The Frankfurt School on “ideology”, “superstructure”, “authoritarian personality”, “one dimensional man”, and so called “critical theory”? Frankly, the only similarity that I see is their agreement with Marx on the class he hated the most: the lumpen-proletariat (The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Napoleon ). Yet I’m willing to be persuaded.

]]> By: Simon Newman http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/06/13/the-neoconservative-threat-to-american-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-2137 Simon Newman Thu, 14 Jun 2007 12:02:19 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=143#comment-2137 Sid Cundiff: "I wish we’d not call this Camorra “neo-conservatives” and use instead “Hamiltonians”, or better yet, “Whigs”." They bear very little resemblance to actual Hamiltonians - HW Bush, James Baker, Colin Powell et al. Neo-Conservatism is derived from Marxism, not Whiggism. Sid Cundiff:
"I wish we’d not call this Camorra “neo-conservatives” and use instead “Hamiltonians”, or better yet, “Whigs”."

They bear very little resemblance to actual Hamiltonians - HW Bush, James Baker, Colin Powell et al. Neo-Conservatism is derived from Marxism, not Whiggism.

]]> By: Bob http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/06/13/the-neoconservative-threat-to-american-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-2120 Bob Thu, 14 Jun 2007 05:59:47 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=143#comment-2120 I especially agree with the last paragraph. "The neoconservatives also believe that nuclear attack on Iran will isolate America in the world and, thereby, give the government control over the American people. The denunciations that will be hurled at Americans from every quarter will force the country to wrap itself in the flag and to treat domestic critics as foreign enemies. Not only free speech but also truth itself will disappear along with every civil liberty." I fear this, and I don't know where to turn. Alex in the above thread asks, what to do, what do to. I just don't know. But given that I don't know, the next best thing is for us to regain some part of the mass media, some newspaper perhaps. And not just regain it, but to make sure it is not taken away by devious means, as for instance the adverstisers in the paper starting to disappear. The next thing is to do someting analogous with a part of some Ivy League University. These use to all belong to us. Now none of them do, not even in part. I especially agree with the last paragraph.

"The neoconservatives also believe that nuclear attack on Iran will isolate America in the world and, thereby, give the government control over the American people. The denunciations that will be hurled at Americans from every quarter will force the country to wrap itself in the flag and to treat domestic critics as foreign enemies. Not only free speech but also truth itself will disappear along with every civil liberty."

I fear this, and I don't know where to turn.

Alex in the above thread asks, what to do, what do to. I just don't know. But given that I don't know, the next best thing is for us to regain some part of the mass media, some newspaper perhaps. And not just regain it, but to make sure it is not taken away by devious means, as for instance the adverstisers in the paper starting to disappear.

The next thing is to do someting analogous with a part of some Ivy League University. These use to all belong to us. Now none of them do, not even in part.

]]> By: Alex http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/06/13/the-neoconservative-threat-to-american-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-2110 Alex Thu, 14 Jun 2007 02:51:43 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=143#comment-2110 So what to do? I think just about everyone intuitively 'knows' who the neo-conservatives are and what they're trying to accomplish - with due exception to the 'I Stand Behind President Bush, Our Leader, Forever' crowd - but how to combat the inevitable 'anti-Semitism' smears when the murmur becomes a roar? You name the menace, they conceal themselves behind their 'religious beliefs', and all criticism comes to a screeching halt. What to do? So what to do?

I think just about everyone intuitively 'knows' who the neo-conservatives are and what they're trying to accomplish - with due exception to the 'I Stand Behind President Bush, Our Leader, Forever' crowd - but how to combat the inevitable 'anti-Semitism' smears when the murmur becomes a roar?

You name the menace, they conceal themselves behind their 'religious beliefs', and all criticism comes to a screeching halt.

What to do?

]]> By: Sid Cundiff http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/06/13/the-neoconservative-threat-to-american-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-2104 Sid Cundiff Thu, 14 Jun 2007 00:53:06 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=143#comment-2104 I have written elsewhere: A group is to be judged by how well it polices its own and those who would claim its affiliation: The Greens how they police Eco-Terrorists and Unabomber wannabes; the Libertarians how they police drug traffickers; the “Liberals” how they police Eric Foner, the Cultural Marxists, and other Latter-Day Commies; the Neocons those who would bomb Iran; the Theocons the Rev. John Hagee; Blacks the Rev. Louis Farrakhan, Professor Leonard Jeffries, and Dwight York (the last named thankfully now policed as #17911-054 in the Florence, Colorado, ADX Supermax); Hispanics the Mexica Movement (http://www.dailynews.com/bridgetjohnson/ci_6115657); Irish republicans the Provisional IRA; Orangemen the Ulster Defence Association; Royalists the Camelots du Roi; Catholics the Sedevacantists; Jews the late Meir Kahane and his Jewish Defense League; EVERYBODY Massachusetts College of Art professor Noel Ignatiev (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noel_Ignatiev and http://racetraitor.org/abolish.html); and we paleoconservatives how we police Judeophobes, assorted racialists, Aryan Nation, and The National Alliance (the US bunch, not the Italian). (The National Vanguard, thankfully, has bit the dust and its <i>duce</i> is in the poky – prayerfully soon to join York, and for the same crime). Failure to so police discredits those who ought to so police, however worthy their cause. I respectfully ask the editor of this blog, Ought the remarks of #3 supra be policed? Should my remarks regarding William of Orange’s and Gene’s homosexually be judged to need such policing also, then so be it. I have written elsewhere: A group is to be judged by how well it polices its own and those who would claim its affiliation: The Greens how they police Eco-Terrorists and Unabomber wannabes; the Libertarians how they police drug traffickers; the “Liberals” how they police Eric Foner, the Cultural Marxists, and other Latter-Day Commies; the Neocons those who would bomb Iran; the Theocons the Rev. John Hagee; Blacks the Rev. Louis Farrakhan, Professor Leonard Jeffries, and Dwight York (the last named thankfully now policed as #17911-054 in the Florence, Colorado, ADX Supermax); Hispanics the Mexica Movement (http://www.dailynews.com/bridgetjohnson/ci_6115657); Irish republicans the Provisional IRA; Orangemen the Ulster Defence Association; Royalists the Camelots du Roi; Catholics the Sedevacantists; Jews the late Meir Kahane and his Jewish Defense League; EVERYBODY Massachusetts College of Art professor Noel Ignatiev (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noel_Ignatiev and http://racetraitor.org/abolish.html); and we paleoconservatives how we police Judeophobes, assorted racialists, Aryan Nation, and The National Alliance (the US bunch, not the Italian). (The National Vanguard, thankfully, has bit the dust and its duce is in the poky – prayerfully soon to join York, and for the same crime). Failure to so police discredits those who ought to so police, however worthy their cause.

I respectfully ask the editor of this blog, Ought the remarks of #3 supra be policed? Should my remarks regarding William of Orange’s and Gene’s homosexually be judged to need such policing also, then so be it.

]]> By: Volunteer Voters » Unblogged Tabs http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/06/13/the-neoconservative-threat-to-american-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-2097 Volunteer Voters » Unblogged Tabs Wed, 13 Jun 2007 23:06:45 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=143#comment-2097 [...] The Neoconservative Threat to American Freedom [...] [...] The Neoconservative Threat to American Freedom [...]

]]> By: dj normand http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/06/13/the-neoconservative-threat-to-american-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-2096 dj normand Wed, 13 Jun 2007 22:51:49 +0000 http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=143#comment-2096 Why won't journalists call a "spade a spade"? Just about every politician that is labeled a neoconservative is either a Jewish or Christian Zionist. This racist tribe of humanity, which do not warrant such a generous label, is eviscerating our great nation with their iron will and blatant disregard of the people. Every one of them should be imprisoned for life for war crimes and other nefarious treasonous activities against America. Why won't journalists call a "spade a spade"? Just about every politician that is labeled a neoconservative is either a Jewish or Christian Zionist. This racist tribe of humanity, which do not warrant such a generous label, is eviscerating our great nation with their iron will and blatant disregard of the people. Every one of them should be imprisoned for life for war crimes and other nefarious treasonous activities against America.

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