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	<title>Comments on: Descent of Man, Pt. II</title>
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	<description>Your home for traditional conservatism.</description>
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		<title>By: TJF</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/06/08/descent-of-man-pt-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-2078</link>
		<dc:creator>TJF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 18:29:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=139#comment-2078</guid>
		<description>The Steve Jones cited above is not the Sex Pistols member, as you all may be thinking, but a geneticist and pop-science TV presenter in the UK, a somewhat less controversial Richard Dawkins-- or is that Roger Daltrey, who also has views on biology.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Steve Jones cited above is not the Sex Pistols member, as you all may be thinking, but a geneticist and pop-science TV presenter in the UK, a somewhat less controversial Richard Dawkins-- or is that Roger Daltrey, who also has views on biology.</p>
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		<title>By: TJF</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/06/08/descent-of-man-pt-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-2076</link>
		<dc:creator>TJF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 18:18:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=139#comment-2076</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a wonderful world out there in bla-bla land, but this is a conversation and not Hyde Park where any crank with a megaphone may annoy passersby.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It's a wonderful world out there in bla-bla land, but this is a conversation and not Hyde Park where any crank with a megaphone may annoy passersby.</p>
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		<title>By: TJF</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/06/08/descent-of-man-pt-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-2067</link>
		<dc:creator>TJF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:39:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=139#comment-2067</guid>
		<description>Excuse me: &quot;must seem counter-factual&quot;.  These poor old arthritic fingers that cannot type 50 words a minute without making mistakes, such as misspelling skirt-chaser.

I&#039;ll try to post brief notes on another chapter later today and then must go to Louisiana to give lectures on Pope Pius IX.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excuse me: "must seem counter-factual".  These poor old arthritic fingers that cannot type 50 words a minute without making mistakes, such as misspelling skirt-chaser.</p>
<p>I'll try to post brief notes on another chapter later today and then must go to Louisiana to give lectures on Pope Pius IX.</p>
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		<title>By: TJF</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/06/08/descent-of-man-pt-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-2066</link>
		<dc:creator>TJF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:36:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=139#comment-2066</guid>
		<description>You mean, you broke into a conversation without checking up on what it was about, thought someone named Steve Jones had something to do with it, presumed to impose your Orthodoxy on people of whom you know nothing, harp on an old man&#039;s clumsy typing, and then expect to be asked to tea and given a lecture on scientific subjects you think you have a right to speak about without doing any work.  Oh, I forgot, you then attribute imaginary positions to people so that you can knock them down.

I suggested Goldberg as a starting point for someone who apparently needs to begin with the ABC&#039;s of sexual dimorphism--hardly an arcane phrase and something you might, if you have the slightest interest in the topic, take the trouble to look up.  The fact that women in some societies may inherit power from their male relatives does not fundamentally alter the basic structure of the societies.  Hatshepsut--a rather poor ruler, by the way-- is said to have worn a beard on public occasions and Elizabeth I was rumored (probably falsely) to shave.  The reason for such stories is obvious: The expectation that a ruler would be a man.  Most English queens (the Stuarts, for example)  other than Elizabeth I have exercised power through powerful male advisors and through husbands.  

It is not that no woman anywhere has ever held power, but that men and women are programmed differently, in the womb and again at puberty, by genes and genetically determined hormones which affect size, strength, and brain development.  Men are far more subject to the libido dominandi, while women are more attached to hearth and home, as their circumstances until very recently made necessary.  Males and females also have different sexual strategies, except in societies whose decadence has doomed to extinction, such as in modern Europe and the US, where women abort some of their children, surrender others to daycare, and, in general, do not provide children to replace their parents and maintain the population.  In Britain and the US, it is Third World immigrants who have the babies. How much more do you need?

Any number of books on sexual differences, many written by feminist scientists, will document these generalizations.  But if scientific research is &quot;arcane,&quot; then I cannot imagine on what basis you would presume to draw conclusions that even to the peasant mind much seem counter-factual and absurd.  This is all I have to say on this matter until you undertake a course of reading that will give you the right to entertain (much less express) an opinion in a forum such as this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You mean, you broke into a conversation without checking up on what it was about, thought someone named Steve Jones had something to do with it, presumed to impose your Orthodoxy on people of whom you know nothing, harp on an old man's clumsy typing, and then expect to be asked to tea and given a lecture on scientific subjects you think you have a right to speak about without doing any work.  Oh, I forgot, you then attribute imaginary positions to people so that you can knock them down.</p>
<p>I suggested Goldberg as a starting point for someone who apparently needs to begin with the ABC's of sexual dimorphism--hardly an arcane phrase and something you might, if you have the slightest interest in the topic, take the trouble to look up.  The fact that women in some societies may inherit power from their male relatives does not fundamentally alter the basic structure of the societies.  Hatshepsut--a rather poor ruler, by the way-- is said to have worn a beard on public occasions and Elizabeth I was rumored (probably falsely) to shave.  The reason for such stories is obvious: The expectation that a ruler would be a man.  Most English queens (the Stuarts, for example)  other than Elizabeth I have exercised power through powerful male advisors and through husbands.  </p>
<p>It is not that no woman anywhere has ever held power, but that men and women are programmed differently, in the womb and again at puberty, by genes and genetically determined hormones which affect size, strength, and brain development.  Men are far more subject to the libido dominandi, while women are more attached to hearth and home, as their circumstances until very recently made necessary.  Males and females also have different sexual strategies, except in societies whose decadence has doomed to extinction, such as in modern Europe and the US, where women abort some of their children, surrender others to daycare, and, in general, do not provide children to replace their parents and maintain the population.  In Britain and the US, it is Third World immigrants who have the babies. How much more do you need?</p>
<p>Any number of books on sexual differences, many written by feminist scientists, will document these generalizations.  But if scientific research is "arcane," then I cannot imagine on what basis you would presume to draw conclusions that even to the peasant mind much seem counter-factual and absurd.  This is all I have to say on this matter until you undertake a course of reading that will give you the right to entertain (much less express) an opinion in a forum such as this.</p>
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		<title>By: TJF</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/06/08/descent-of-man-pt-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-2051</link>
		<dc:creator>TJF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:50:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=139#comment-2051</guid>
		<description>To RC: Let us get this straight.  You entered into the middle of a conversation about a book, a conversation that has already included about 100 contributions.  Rather than comment on the book or the argument, you attempt to distract the conversation by imposing some politically correct standard for how one may, on one&#039;s own website and presumably in one&#039;s own magazine or in the privacy of one&#039;s bedroom, talk about male female differences, a subject, by the way, on which you display in your offhand remarks appalling ignorance, and then you wish to complain.  This complaint is even better than your first posting, and it reveals what I have said for years, that the so-called mens movement--which should be called the genetically male persons movement--is trying to complete the feminists&#039; campaign to turn men into capons.

Poor Mr. Cuttill, I cannot devote the next few hours to introducing you to the topic of sexual dimorphism, though even Wade&#039;s not very good book, could be a start.  Don&#039;t bother to read my book, but it will give you some of the important bibliography down to the end of the 1980&#039;s or if you want something simpler, start with Steve Goldberg&#039;s Inevitability of Patriarchy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To RC: Let us get this straight.  You entered into the middle of a conversation about a book, a conversation that has already included about 100 contributions.  Rather than comment on the book or the argument, you attempt to distract the conversation by imposing some politically correct standard for how one may, on one's own website and presumably in one's own magazine or in the privacy of one's bedroom, talk about male female differences, a subject, by the way, on which you display in your offhand remarks appalling ignorance, and then you wish to complain.  This complaint is even better than your first posting, and it reveals what I have said for years, that the so-called mens movement--which should be called the genetically male persons movement--is trying to complete the feminists' campaign to turn men into capons.</p>
<p>Poor Mr. Cuttill, I cannot devote the next few hours to introducing you to the topic of sexual dimorphism, though even Wade's not very good book, could be a start.  Don't bother to read my book, but it will give you some of the important bibliography down to the end of the 1980's or if you want something simpler, start with Steve Goldberg's Inevitability of Patriarchy.</p>
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		<title>By: TJF</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/06/08/descent-of-man-pt-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-1967</link>
		<dc:creator>TJF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:37:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=139#comment-1967</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll check back on Dryden.  You might send the webmaster an email alert to be sent to me when you post something there.  I just reread Sense and Sensibiilty and rediscovered how much harsher she is in that novel than in Pride and Prejudice.  The moony sister is absolutely intolerable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'll check back on Dryden.  You might send the webmaster an email alert to be sent to me when you post something there.  I just reread Sense and Sensibiilty and rediscovered how much harsher she is in that novel than in Pride and Prejudice.  The moony sister is absolutely intolerable.</p>
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		<title>By: "Sir Charles Grandison"</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/06/08/descent-of-man-pt-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-1961</link>
		<dc:creator>"Sir Charles Grandison"</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:57:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=139#comment-1961</guid>
		<description>A quick word of thanks for rejuvenating the booklog.  I&#039;ve really enjoyed going through the Wade (a book I never even would have heard about on my own) and reading your commentaries (as well as the others&#039;) on it.  Among many other things, you&#039;ve presented a very helpful method for approaching these sorts of &quot;pop-scientistic&quot; books.

And I simply can&#039;t thank you enough for re-introducing Dryden!  I hope the others have been going back to him, too.  I&#039;ve just about finished Marriage-a-la-Mode, and hope to add a couple comments/observations on that play plus All For Love and Shakespeare&#039;s A&amp;C over the next couple days.  So you may want to keep your eye on that thread as well.

Are you still willing to do some Jane Austen in the near future?  If so, I&#039;d like to vote for either Mansfield Park or Sense and Sensibility.  But any Austen would be great...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A quick word of thanks for rejuvenating the booklog.  I've really enjoyed going through the Wade (a book I never even would have heard about on my own) and reading your commentaries (as well as the others') on it.  Among many other things, you've presented a very helpful method for approaching these sorts of "pop-scientistic" books.</p>
<p>And I simply can't thank you enough for re-introducing Dryden!  I hope the others have been going back to him, too.  I've just about finished Marriage-a-la-Mode, and hope to add a couple comments/observations on that play plus All For Love and Shakespeare's A&amp;C over the next couple days.  So you may want to keep your eye on that thread as well.</p>
<p>Are you still willing to do some Jane Austen in the near future?  If so, I'd like to vote for either Mansfield Park or Sense and Sensibility.  But any Austen would be great...</p>
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		<title>By: TJF</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/06/08/descent-of-man-pt-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-1957</link>
		<dc:creator>TJF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:25:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=139#comment-1957</guid>
		<description>I know what you all are thinking, that I made up Raymond Cuttill as a fictional character to satirize the men&#039;s rights movement. Next you will be thinking that Mr. Cuttill (or is it Cattell) is spoofing us.  Alas, there is no need to make these creatures up, and they are completely without humour.  I am sure Mr. Cuttill and his legions of exploited men were not skirth-chasters in their youth.  I know I was.  If the poor fellow would like to learn something about maleness, I recommend my own The Politics of Human Nature.  He might learn a fact or two about sex differences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know what you all are thinking, that I made up Raymond Cuttill as a fictional character to satirize the men's rights movement. Next you will be thinking that Mr. Cuttill (or is it Cattell) is spoofing us.  Alas, there is no need to make these creatures up, and they are completely without humour.  I am sure Mr. Cuttill and his legions of exploited men were not skirth-chasters in their youth.  I know I was.  If the poor fellow would like to learn something about maleness, I recommend my own The Politics of Human Nature.  He might learn a fact or two about sex differences.</p>
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		<title>By: TJF</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/06/08/descent-of-man-pt-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-1885</link>
		<dc:creator>TJF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jun 2007 13:47:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=139#comment-1885</guid>
		<description>Not having the book in front of me, I cannot say whether or not Wade or I introduced the word primitive into the conversation, but his argument leaves no doubt as to his meaning.  I, too, found it strange and had previously made the point that anthropologists are very wary of such an approach.  According to the geneticists cited by Wade, there is no evidence in the current human gene pool, at least none so far detected, of specifically Neanderthal genes, but if such people accounted for only a small fraction of the European population I am not so sure that there would still be a Neanderthal footprint.

E.E. Evans-Pritchard, though not much given to French-style speculation, once wrote a little book taking up Lucien Lévy-Bruhl&#039;s once famous then rejected theory of primitive mentality.  (Primitives cannot make ordinary distinctions of subject/object, image and reality, shadow and thing, etc.) Evans-Pritchard suggested that anthropologists had been as hasty in rejecting the theory as L-B had been rash in proposing it.  He argued, partly on the basis of his own long-term and patient study of the Nuer, that L-B was not far off base in his characterization except that he missed the obvious fact that primitives are very practical and have no trouble in practice distinguishing between what they see in a dream and what they see while they are awake.  Nonetheless, in some circumstances they frequently refuse to make such distinctions.  Hence, for example, the story I heard from a physician who had given a wife some medicine for her sick husband to take.  She immediately took a dose herself on the grounds that they were the same person.

E-P also pointed out that only a small fraction of people in civilized societies were much more advanced than the primitives--hence Bob Tyrell&#039;s Menkenesque remark about people ignorant of Mozart and Rilke (though, to be frank, I could as likely imagine Tyrell performing  brain surgery as reading Rilke.  European big-brained apes have been coasting off the Greeks for a very long time, and yet most people I meet cannot open their mouths without showing their ignorance of the most basic logical principles, i.e., non-contradiction.   Most of us, including scientists when they step outside their field, are pre-Parmenidean.  

My personal hunch is that our barbarian ancestors--Celts, Slavs, Germans--needed Greeks and then Romans to teach them a civilization they could never have developed by themselves.  It took about 1000 years to create a substantial class of civilized Europeans who promptly rejected first Christianity and then Greek and Latin and are galloping headlong back to their beloved barbary.  Nietzsche, though usually hysterical in his hatred of the Catholic Church, says somewhere that Luther gave the Germans the chance they needed to reject the Mediterranean civilization and to back to their native savagery.  

I don&#039;t entirely believe any of this, but I am not alone in noticing that if the 19th century rejected Christ and his Church, as indeed the elite class did, then the 20th can be characterized by the rejection of Latin as the basis of education.  Most members of the last educated generation died out some decades ago.  I do not say that all civilizations depend on Latin and Greek, only that ours does.  And we speakers of degenerate English are in particularly desperate straits because our language, unlike, say German, Italian, and Russian, has virtually no formal grammar except what had been borrowed from Latin (hence the ruinous efforts of Chomsky et co.).  At least a German has to think a little about  cases, moods, tenses, and an educated Italian has access to a language almost as formally complex as Latin (4 tenses of the subjunctive used according to Latin rules), while we speak the language of Tarzan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not having the book in front of me, I cannot say whether or not Wade or I introduced the word primitive into the conversation, but his argument leaves no doubt as to his meaning.  I, too, found it strange and had previously made the point that anthropologists are very wary of such an approach.  According to the geneticists cited by Wade, there is no evidence in the current human gene pool, at least none so far detected, of specifically Neanderthal genes, but if such people accounted for only a small fraction of the European population I am not so sure that there would still be a Neanderthal footprint.</p>
<p>E.E. Evans-Pritchard, though not much given to French-style speculation, once wrote a little book taking up Lucien Lévy-Bruhl's once famous then rejected theory of primitive mentality.  (Primitives cannot make ordinary distinctions of subject/object, image and reality, shadow and thing, etc.) Evans-Pritchard suggested that anthropologists had been as hasty in rejecting the theory as L-B had been rash in proposing it.  He argued, partly on the basis of his own long-term and patient study of the Nuer, that L-B was not far off base in his characterization except that he missed the obvious fact that primitives are very practical and have no trouble in practice distinguishing between what they see in a dream and what they see while they are awake.  Nonetheless, in some circumstances they frequently refuse to make such distinctions.  Hence, for example, the story I heard from a physician who had given a wife some medicine for her sick husband to take.  She immediately took a dose herself on the grounds that they were the same person.</p>
<p>E-P also pointed out that only a small fraction of people in civilized societies were much more advanced than the primitives--hence Bob Tyrell's Menkenesque remark about people ignorant of Mozart and Rilke (though, to be frank, I could as likely imagine Tyrell performing  brain surgery as reading Rilke.  European big-brained apes have been coasting off the Greeks for a very long time, and yet most people I meet cannot open their mouths without showing their ignorance of the most basic logical principles, i.e., non-contradiction.   Most of us, including scientists when they step outside their field, are pre-Parmenidean.  </p>
<p>My personal hunch is that our barbarian ancestors--Celts, Slavs, Germans--needed Greeks and then Romans to teach them a civilization they could never have developed by themselves.  It took about 1000 years to create a substantial class of civilized Europeans who promptly rejected first Christianity and then Greek and Latin and are galloping headlong back to their beloved barbary.  Nietzsche, though usually hysterical in his hatred of the Catholic Church, says somewhere that Luther gave the Germans the chance they needed to reject the Mediterranean civilization and to back to their native savagery.  </p>
<p>I don't entirely believe any of this, but I am not alone in noticing that if the 19th century rejected Christ and his Church, as indeed the elite class did, then the 20th can be characterized by the rejection of Latin as the basis of education.  Most members of the last educated generation died out some decades ago.  I do not say that all civilizations depend on Latin and Greek, only that ours does.  And we speakers of degenerate English are in particularly desperate straits because our language, unlike, say German, Italian, and Russian, has virtually no formal grammar except what had been borrowed from Latin (hence the ruinous efforts of Chomsky et co.).  At least a German has to think a little about  cases, moods, tenses, and an educated Italian has access to a language almost as formally complex as Latin (4 tenses of the subjunctive used according to Latin rules), while we speak the language of Tarzan.</p>
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		<title>By: Friedrich von Hardenberg</title>
		<link>http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2007/06/08/descent-of-man-pt-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-1761</link>
		<dc:creator>Friedrich von Hardenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 20:28:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=139#comment-1761</guid>
		<description>Lactose intolerance, my Physical Anthropology teacher told me, is a question of diet.  Occidentals as a rule don’t have it because they keep eating and drinking milk products long after weaning.  Most folk in the world don’t.  Ever heard of Chinese cheese?  Americans keep drinking milk even as adults, something I’ve never seen elsewhere; and for that reason American athletes find themselves ridiculed in the canteen of the Olympics by souls ignorant of American ways. 

The same with falling arches.  Most folks’ arches fall at 20 years of age; Occidentals’ don’t because of their shoes, this malady setting in  around 60. 

Some things may be inherited.  By rumor, Africans are said to more likely suffer sickle cell anemia, Orientals bad eyesight, and Celts alcoholism.  

As for folks up in the Blue, I’m totally uninformed, and thank Herr Grumpy for enlightening me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lactose intolerance, my Physical Anthropology teacher told me, is a question of diet.  Occidentals as a rule don’t have it because they keep eating and drinking milk products long after weaning.  Most folk in the world don’t.  Ever heard of Chinese cheese?  Americans keep drinking milk even as adults, something I’ve never seen elsewhere; and for that reason American athletes find themselves ridiculed in the canteen of the Olympics by souls ignorant of American ways. </p>
<p>The same with falling arches.  Most folks’ arches fall at 20 years of age; Occidentals’ don’t because of their shoes, this malady setting in  around 60. </p>
<p>Some things may be inherited.  By rumor, Africans are said to more likely suffer sickle cell anemia, Orientals bad eyesight, and Celts alcoholism.  </p>
<p>As for folks up in the Blue, I’m totally uninformed, and thank Herr Grumpy for enlightening me.</p>
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